Pontiac's fate to be decided in 2010

[ShadowDog]

When did you invent a people-shrinker????

Get real! Small cars are forced on the public by penalties from government regs!

People are not getting smaller, they in fact are getting bigger! Until you can invent a pill to make

people like being stuffed like sardines in a can, small cars will only succeed by economic penalties.

What small cars have had the market success that standard cars have enjoyed for years!

Stop your wimping!!!!

Lighter ?------ go read a physics book on the subject of mass impact!

3900 lb cars were created by government regs to make safety cocoons! My 1983 full-framed

Malibu only weighed 3380 lbs!...... by actual scale test.

But it did not include the B/S currently required that allows you to become an inattentive driver.

Everywhere else outside of the U.S. seems to be doing just fine in smaller cars. The U.S. is a victim of its own automotive creation when trucks and SUVs are considered the necessity, causing the public to fear a need for larger vehicles to survive their near-death experience intact. Societies with predominantly smaller vehicles only need small vehicles; all while many people, even in the U.S., simply prefer them altogether. GM is global, so there's no need to impose the needs of one nation's desire for hulking cars on the entire global market.

[haypops]

When did you invent a people-shrinker????

Get real! Small cars are forced on the public by penalties from government regs!

People are not getting smaller, they in fact are getting bigger! Until you can invent a pill to make

people like being stuffed like sardines in a can, small cars will only succeed by economic penalties.

click here

[hyperv6]

You guys keep rebuilding Pontiac. My question is where are all the Pontiacs concepts and future production plans.

Chevy, Cadillac and Buick have been showing theirs But Pontiac has shown nothing but a Solstice Coupe that has been in the plans for several years.

And when I say show cars I don't mean a reworked G8 by 50 cent or a G6 with a new bumper cover.

There are a lot of G 3's to work with. Maybe they could drop a Ecotech Turbo in it and make it a GXP.

[hyperv6]

When did you invent a people-shrinker????

Get real! Small cars are forced on the public by penalties from government regs!

People are not getting smaller, they in fact are getting bigger! Until you can invent a pill to make

people like being stuffed like sardines in a can, small cars will only succeed by economic penalties.

What small cars have had the market success that standard cars have enjoyed for years!

Stop your wimping!!!!

Lighter ?------ go read a physics book on the subject of mass impact!

3900 lb cars were created by government regs to make safety cocoons! My 1983 full-framed

Malibu only weighed 3380 lbs!...... by actual scale test.

But it did not include the B/S currently required that allows you to become an inattentive driver.

I am all for big cars so don't get me wrong but the people in goverment right now are for change and part of theat is smaller less powerful cars. You watch it is happening.

Your car rights are are under atttack at a level we have not seen since Joan Claybrook. Better watch page 4 of must papers as these things never make front page news.

By the way your full frame 83 Bu will not pass the regs already placed on cars. They have us several ways with the new green laws and 5 star ratings that they are pushing to go higher.

The talk of building high seed rail systems is not to make more room for your Hummer on the interstate. These people hate carts and with the fix GM is in they will have little choice than to comply. Also the rest of the world is already in small cars so they will not feel bad for us either.

Europe already has top speed limits and Japan has taxs on the larger engine you have. It is a global movment and these people want us to meet the others standards.

Many in the industry already see it coming as schools are even beating these global warming concepts into our childrens heads. They are the future consumers and Automakers know this.

My customers in the perfromance aftermarket are getting older and older each year. Hot rods and muscle cars are becoming a lost concept for many kids today. The only speed they want is on their computer.

Take a kit to a race or car show has been a motto that has been used but not enough. SEMA is fighting an uphill battle.

Notice they do more to limit our cars in many ways but the insurance companies and fed goverment do noting to stop Cell phone and texting while driving. They are willing to say how many MPG or limit you to 55 MPH but not stop some 16 year old from texting at 55 mph.

Notice VP Joe even has a Vette. That is cool but because the people that support him hate those cars he claims Amtrack and the Vette was just some old wedding gift from his Father In Law. Ya right. I sure before he was elected VP he never took it out and enjoyed what it could do. The Lobby groups are powerful!

There is an agends being pusht and it is not for the car poeple, we all had better wake up.

Edited April 19, 2009 by hyperv6

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Todays market Image is everything. Just dropping a big engine in a small car is not cutting it with the youth market anymore. Pontiac needed to build cars for today not 1977.

While car like the Hyundia may not be perfect they are pointing they way the market has gone. Most average consumer today gets more excited over a 3,000 pound car with a turbo 4 cylinder than a 455 V8. They also buy more V6 Mustangs than GT's.

Not by choice... Most people buy that because it's a relatively cheap way to "join the club" (If you get what I mean) I'd like nothing morethan to see a WORTHY V6 pony car from Detroit (I think the F5 might actually be that car) But it doesn't mean I should have to buy it.

even worse the youth market has not even embraced performance car like the genertions before.

Can you blame them?!?! Look at the $h! they had to choose from.... (Kids can't afford Astons and Ferarris, so that leaves them the 'ricer' choices)

Pontiac has little image today and most people who are not Pontiac fans could care less what a Judge was or a Super Duty.

I disagree...

I was on a Pontiac Fiero web site and it was amazing hwo many people that did not know what I ment when I used the words TriPower or Super Duty. And these were people who at least owned a Fiero, G6, Solstice Grand Am, Grand Prix or some other late model Pontiac in this discussion.

So?

Just because I own 2 classic Camaros doesn't necessarily mean I know $h! about restoring a classic Corvette.

[Camino LS6]

I am all for big cars so don't get me wrong but the people in goverment right now are for change and part of theat is smaller less powerful cars. You watch it is happening.

Your car rights are are under atttack at a level we have not seen since Joan Claybrook. Better watch page 4 of must papers as these things never make front page news.

By the way your full frame 83 Bu will not pass the regs already placed on cars. They have us several ways with the new green laws and 5 star ratings that they are pushing to go higher.

The talk of building high seed rail systems is not to make more room for your Hummer on the interstate. These people hate carts and with the fix GM is in they will have little choice than to comply. Also the rest of the world is already in small cars so they will not feel bad for us either.

Europe already has top speed limits and Japan has taxs on the larger engine you have. It is a global movment and these people want us to meet the others standards.

Many in the industry already see it coming as schools are even beating these global warming concepts into our childrens heads. They are the future consumers and Automakers know this.

My customers in the perfromance aftermarket are getting older and older each year. Hot rods and muscle cars are becoming a lost concept for many kids today. The only speed they want is on their computer.

Take a kit to a race or car show has been a motto that has been used but not enough. SEMA is fighting an uphill battle.

Notice they do more to limit our cars in many ways but the insurance companies and fed goverment do noting to stop Cell phone and texting while driving. They are willing to say how many MPG or limit you to 55 MPH but not stop some 16 year old from texting at 55 mph.

Notice VP Joe even has a Vette. That is cool but because the people that support him hate those cars he claims Amtrack and the Vette was just some old wedding gift from his Father In Law. Ya right. I sure before he was elected VP he never took it out and enjoyed what it could do. The Lobby groups are powerful!

There is an agends being pusht and it is not for the car poeple, we all had better wake up.

I'm simply not prepared to surrnder to all of that.

I intend to remain a vocal opponent.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I still have to wonder why Firebird wasn't re-introduced along with Camaro, I mean performance was what that car was all about! And don't put something stupid like 'people with mullets drove them'.....Pontiac had a chance and they blew it big time, I'll be sad to see all that heritage and coulda-been-American Mazda-potential not gone to waste, but I think its time to pull the plug.

[gm4life]

I still have to wonder why Firebird wasn't re-introduced along with Camaro, I mean performance was what that car was all about! And don't put something stupid like 'people with mullets drove them'.....Pontiac had a chance and they blew it big time, I'll be sad to see all that heritage and coulda-been-American Mazda-potential not gone to waste, but I think its time to pull the plug.

I can be done easily, and if Pontiac wants to niche performance they need to do that.

[hyperv6]

Not by choice... Most people buy that because it's a relatively cheap way to "join the club" (If you get what I mean) I'd like nothing morethan to see a WORTHY V6 pony car from Detroit (I think the F5 might actually be that car) But it doesn't mean I should have to buy it.

Can you blame them?!?! Look at the $h! they had to choose from.... (Kids can't afford Astons and Ferarris, so that leaves them the 'ricer' choices)

I disagree...

So?

Just because I own 2 classic Camaros doesn't necessarily mean I know $h! about restoring a classic Corvette.

In todays economy affordable perfromance is key. Also a line of cars that is diversified enough to survive when gas goes back to $5 a gallon. I am all in favore of continuing SUV's and perfromance cars but make sure you have a line of good small cars to pay the bills when they sit on the lots because gas WILL got back up again. How many times are American car companies going to get caught without a line upo that can answer any market? It has happend in the 50's, 70's 80's, 9+0's and now. You would think they would learn.

The V6 Camaro is more key it has to sell as there are not enough V8 buyers to make the numbers they need. The wantabes are what make it possible for you to have your car. So treat them well and cater to them. No desert with out cleaning your plate.

Well there are many good performance cars on the market. The Cobalt SS is one you can get loaded under $20k today along with many other cars that are affordable. You may not like 4 cylinders but they are potent and can kick many a muscle cars ass. Hell I drive a 4 cyliner HHR that is 2 seconds faster int he 1/4 mile than my last stock BBC. In fact it is as fast as a stock Mustang GT as it is. With the way it drives I couild care less how many pistons it has. I do miss the engine but it is not that big of an issue. 13 sec 1/4 mile is what it is.

You can disagree all you like but Pontiac and its heritage is mostly squandered. The public see Pontiac for what it is and not what you think it is. GM has fooled few with it line upo for the past many years. You may say so but it all goes back to the marketing and image that you agree is important. You can't pick or choose.

The wannabe Corvette owners are the many who have bought V8 Camaro's over the years. The image is everything. When they can't afford the Corvette a warmed over Nova with a better body and Covette engine was enough to satisfiy their needs.

Just what exactly is Pontiacs image as it has little heritage anymore and except for two models no performance? remember image is everything!

[hyperv6]

I still have to wonder why Firebird wasn't re-introduced along with Camaro, I mean performance was what that car was all about! And don't put something stupid like 'people with mullets drove them'.....Pontiac had a chance and they blew it big time, I'll be sad to see all that heritage and coulda-been-American Mazda-potential not gone to waste, but I think its time to pull the plug.

Scott Setllmire has made it plain as day they are doing everything to sell 100,000 Camaro's a year. THis is somthing they need to do and to be honest after the first year or two even in a good economy they were unsure they will do. The Camaro is a risk under the conditions GM has had to bring it back. Things may have been easier if the Impala was put on the same platform as it was planned at one time.

The people at GM plain and simple want to take Mustang sales away not Camaro.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Camaro will be lucky if it pulls 50K per year now... (And that's not necessarily a bad thing)

[Satty]

Camaro will be lucky if it pulls 50K per year now... (And that's not necessarily a bad thing)

YAY! Someone finally gets it! Volume doesn't equal profit. If they feel they "need" to unload 100,000 Camaros, they're going to feel they "need" to put a pile of cash on the hood and it'll dilute the car.

[gm4life]

YAY! Someone finally gets it! Volume doesn't equal profit. If they feel they "need" to unload 100,000 Camaros, they're going to feel they "need" to put a pile of cash on the hood and it'll dilute the car.

I agree, I realize that, GM actually might make money on this car.

[CaddyXLR-V]

YAY! Someone finally gets it! Volume doesn't equal profit. If they feel they "need" to unload 100,000 Camaros, they're going to feel they "need" to put a pile of cash on the hood and it'll dilute the car.

Too bad GM doesn't get it, by setting their projections at 50,000 the whole time. It seems like they have to come up with unrealistic expectations just so the bean counter in control of products will give it the green light.

[hyperv6]

Camaro will be lucky if it pulls 50K per year now... (And that's not necessarily a bad thing)

If they don't sell more than 50K it may not make 2016 and a 6th gen on a Alpha. If the car dies a second time that is it.

The 100 K Goal was before the economy crashed and after the RWD Impala was killed. If things don't pick up the Camaro may have a very short run. Even at this pojnt the Mustangs future is not carved in stone.

Edited April 21, 2009 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

At this point, nothing's future is carved in stone.

[Camino LS6]

At this point, nothing's future is carved in stone.

Very true.

And anyone with even half a brain wouldn't expect any car to meet pre-crash projections.

Some very good cars have been hamstrung by the crappy economy and all of the doubt surrounding GM's future.

When the dust settles, a truer picture will emerge.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If they don't sell more than 50K it may not make 2016 and a 6th gen on a Alpha. If the car dies a second time that is it.

The 100 K Goal was before the economy crashed and after the RWD Impala was killed. If things don't pick up the Camaro may have a very short run. Even at this pojnt the Mustangs future is not carved in stone.

GM might as well get over it, because it ain't gonna happen...

A muscle car.... In the worst economy since the depression... Amid the biggest political propaganda war against this kind of 'excess' to date... From a company that has such a damaged image that it may NEVER recover....

Need I go on?

[hyperv6]

GM might as well get over it, because it ain't gonna happen...

A muscle car.... In the worst economy since the depression... Amid the biggest political propaganda war against this kind of 'excess' to date... From a company that has such a damaged image that it may NEVER recover....

Need I go on?

No need to go on as you prove a wise point. Times are hard and performace V8 cars may be a bad investment for GM at this time when money is short and image is lacking.

So if you're going to have a hard time selling a the Camaro V8 as it is then why do so many lack the wisdom to ask why GM is not building a Trans Am? At this time money spent elsewhere to save GM would be much wiser would it not?

Would the money not be better spent to finally get Cruze to market sooner. A low price well built economical car is more in tune with what would help GM at a time they lack Image and money. We get GM through this there will be time for cool cars later. If GM fails we will be less one corperation that is willing to make cool cars we want later.

It is wiser for GM to keep with cars that will impact the present maket future market since the economy will not be recovering soon since it has not even stablized yet.

GM is going to live or die on cars like the Cruze, Orlando, Malbu and Nox in North America.

So far the review of the Cruze in Autoweek is promising.

Car sales are hard to come by today so they better get the new affordable product out and out soon. Even then they will have to prove their worth.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

No need to go on as you prove a wise point. Times are hard and performace V8 cars may be a bad investment for GM at this time when money is short and image is lacking.

So if you're going to have a hard time selling a the Camaro V8 as it is then why do so many lack the wisdom to ask why GM is not building a Trans Am? At this time money spent elsewhere to save GM would be much wiser would it not?

I never specifically asked for a TA. Would that be cool? ABSOLUTELY! But honestly, I just want a commitment on Pontiac. I'd love to see the brand continue to exist with a G8 line (whole line OR just sedan) Solstice and Vibe or Delta II car.

Would the money not be better spent to finally get Cruze to market sooner. A low price well built economical car is more in tune with what would help GM at a time they lack Image and money. We get GM through this there will be time for cool cars later. If GM fails we will be less one corperation that is willing to make cool cars we want later.

The BAD decisions GM makes now will harm them indefinitely. If GM abandons performance now; will they ever adopt it again? With the management "expertise" that they've shown? I highly doubt it.

GM is going to live or die on cars like the Cruze, Orlando, Malbu and Nox in North America.

And that's why Chevrolet needs the most attention. But a niche Pontiac will not detract from that.

So far the review of the Cruze in Autoweek is promising.

European reviews of the Cruze have been largely negative...