Pontiac's fate to be decided in 2010

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Those of you waiting to find out what will happen to GM's Pontiac brand may have to wait until next year, Automotive News reports.

According to Susan Docherty, vice president of Buick-Pontiac-GMC, the decision on what to do with Pontiac is "pretty low on the priority list."

Many questions arose after GM officials stated last December in their restructuring plan that they would transform the automaker's sporty division in to a "niche" brand. Currently, two possible product strategies are being considered, Docherty mentions.

One is a rear-wheel drive model focused on rekindling the brand's sporty character -- meaning a possible TransAm and Firebird revival. The other plan includes a sporty, fuel efficient ride priced at around $15,000 to $20,000 and targeted towards younger buyers. Two or three body styles could be offered, insiders claim.

One can only hope!

Edited April 14, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[CaddyXLR-V]

One can only hope!

I'll take the first option. But instead of a Trans Am, I would like it to be more of a GTO type vehicle.

[Dsuupr]

A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Ah, so a performance brand is now a mullet brand. Great.

[Camino LS6]

I'd prefer the two-pronged approach.

EDIT: The multiple bodystyle concept gives me some hope that someone with a brain is actually working on this.

Kudos for that!

[cire]

If GM wants to add another RWD product to Pontiac, then they should add something that is unique and wouldn't directly compete with the Camaro (like a Firebird would). If Zeta is flexible enough to be downsized a bit, I would rather see Pontiac receive a production version of the Holden Torana TT36 Concept. This would give Pontiac something unique in the market and within GM's product structure. It would also be a perfect smaller companion vehicle to the G8 sedan.

The Scion idea for Pontiac seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. There is no reason Chevrolet can't expand its small car portfolio to compete with Scion. If GM wants or feels it needs to split Opel's Euro products between Buick and Pontiac then they should simply do it by bodystyle. Buick should take Opel's higher volume bodystyles and Pontiac should take Opel's sportier niche bodystyles.

Out of the 2 options presented above, I would prefer the first one. It would make Pontiac something that is truly unique in the marketplace and within GM.

Edited April 14, 2009 by cire

[Camino LS6]

If GM wants to add another RWD product to Pontiac, then they should add something that is unique and wouldn't directly compete with the Camaro (like a Firebird would). If Zeta is flexible enough to be downsized a bit, I would rather see Pontiac receive a production version of the Holden Torana TT36 Concept. This would give Pontiac something unique in the market and within GM's product structure. It would also be a perfect smaller companion vehicle to the G8 sedan.

The Scion idea for Pontiac seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. There is no reason Chevrolet can't expand its small car portfolio to compete with Scion. If GM wants or feels it needs to split Opel's Euro products between Buick and Pontiac then they should simply do it by bodystyle. Buick should take Opel's higher volume bodystyles and Pontiac should take Opel's sportier niche bodystyles.

Out of the 2 options presented above, I would prefer the first one. It would make Pontiac something that is truly unique in the marketplace and within GM.

Pontiac = RWD performance in two convenient sizes?

I can go with that.

As for Firebird/Trans Am, no - just no.

Not now, and maybe never again.

G8 GTO?

Yes, please!

[Dsuupr]

GMs version of a scion brand doesn't have to be small ugly station wagons. It can be hot small coupes, hatches, etc. It can be a "small" rear wheel drive Firebird. It can be a division that offers an electric/gas Firebird. A Firebird that goes faster than any other electric vehicle but still is able to achieve 40+ mpg.

It is the image of big V8s, both in cars and trucks, that GM needs to get away from that will help change public perception to be positive. Don't get me wrong, I think we are better off offering big V8 engines that use renewable fuels than small electric vehicles that use metals that are not renewable, but right now GM needs a positive image change more than anything else and electric, small vehicles are it.

[Camino LS6]

GMs version of a scion brand doesn't have to be small ugly station wagons. It can be hot small coupes, hatches, etc. It can be a "small" rear wheel drive Firebird. It can be a division that offers an electric/gas Firebird. A Firebird that goes faster than any other electric vehicle but still is able to achieve 40+ mpg.

It is the image of big V8s, both in cars and trucks, that GM needs to get away from that will help change public perception to be positive. Don't get me wrong, I think we are better off offering big V8 engines that use renewable fuels than small electric vehicles that use metals that are not renewable, but right now GM needs a positive image change more than anything else and electric, small vehicles are it.

There are ways to make such vehicles viable as Pontiacs, but why?

EDIT: That's not to say that something like an offordable Tesla-like car wouldn't fit the bill, just that the mission of performance and fun must be the central principle of the brand.

Pontiac should be the rebel brand, the one that you buy for yourself no matter what the world may think.

Pontiac should be affordable, fun, performance.

The car you buy because you love cars and love to drive.

[Drew Dowdell]

2-3 bodies of Zeta + 2-3 bodies of alpha, 2 bodies of delta II = success

[Camino LS6]

It would be interesting to market Pontiac as the "elemental" brand, the one that cuts right to the core of things.

I think using the names of the architectures as model names would be an interesting approach.

What if Pontiac were:

Alpha

Zeta

and Kappa?

[Camino LS6]

2-3 bodies of Zeta + 2-3 bodies of alpha, 2 bodies of delta II = success

Mostly agree with this, and see it as workable.

[CaddyXLR-V]

2-3 bodies of Zeta + 2-3 bodies of alpha, 2 bodies of delta II = success

I like that, especially if the delta II could have a top version with AWD to go up against the EVO and STI.

[deftonesfan867]

I could see a Pontiac WRX fighter. I really could. With that I could see the Red Arrowhead getting the same respect as the Scoobies.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Throw in a V6 Kappa to go against the 370z and Pontiac would be set.

[hyperv6]

I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

[Camino LS6]

To make this work, they will have to make sure that mainstream stuff doesn't trickle back in to the Pontiac portfolio.

Pontiac must have the tightest focus to survive and thrive.

[Camino LS6]

I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

Nope.

Can't see it that way.

For GM as a whole, fine.

For Pontiac's little corner of the world, no way.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

Everything you said is fine, but Pontiac can't abandon the V8 for all their models. The GTO/G8 need the V8. The Alphas would do well with turbo 6s deltas with turbo 4s

[G. David Felt]

A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

GM needs to move above coping the competition and the Scion brand is fadding fast for Toyota, they have lost their focus and way. This is NOT what GM needs to do.

What they need is a multiple style approach of Niche perfomance for the BPG mid level strategy. Seems someone is actually thinking outside of the box on how to really benefit and focus this 3 step approach.

[Camino LS6]

If they do this brand justice at long last, they can certainly win me back.

If not...

[CaddyXLR-V]

If they do this brand justice at long last, they can certainly win me back.

If not...

Exactly how I feel. I will still buy other brands as well, but there will always be at least 1 Pontiac in my garage.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

I agree...

However, I don't see why a Scion-like Pontiac couldn't be topped with something like a Trans Am or GTO halo.

Chevy gets Corvette, Pontiac could get a rather limited Trans Am or Firebird (or GTO)

[Camino LS6]

Scion is a failed model which completely missed its mark.

Not a template for anyone to follow.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Scion is a failed model which completetly missed its mark.

Not a template for anyone to follow.

I agree and disagree...

Scion model line = FAIL.

Scion mission, buyer base, marketing and customization = Something a niche Pontiac would benefit greatly from.

[G. David Felt]

I agree and disagree...

Scion model line = FAIL.

Scion mission, buyer base, marketing and customization = Something a niche Pontiac would benefit greatly from.

That Clarification I would agree with, the model line is a failure, butr the marketing and customization is the correct route to go with Pontiac.

[longtooth]

Firehawk.

Why not?

(with the Smokey & the Bandit package from SLP please)

[Camino LS6]

Creating a new Firebird right now (especially a Camaro-based one) would be suicide for Pontiac.

Would I buy one?

Damned right!

But it would ruin Pontiac's chances to change public perception as the media would have a field day.

"Badge engineering!"

"Same Old GM!"

"Mullet!"

Can't you just hear it?

No, this is the time to take Pontiac's game a bit upscale and the G8 points the way.

[hyperv6]

Everything you said is fine, but Pontiac can't abandon the V8 for all their models. The GTO/G8 need the V8. The Alphas would do well with turbo 6s deltas with turbo 4s

Hate to break the old news to you but at the rate the goverment is passing new laws the Vette and pick ups will be the only V8 you will see in the not to distant future.

You had bet worry more about the goverment capping HP on 4 cylinders as it is. I fear they will step up and limit size and power of the engines you will buy in the name of the all powerful global warming co levels.

All auto makers will have to do more with less the sooner GM embraces this the better as I don't see a way out of this this time.

We as car enthusiast will lose more and more of the rights to own the kind of cars we want in the coming future. the govement will deem it in our and societies best interest.

Big Brother is watching out for us and he hates Pontiac. and what it used to stand for.

On the other hand we have a two year supply of G3's

[Camino LS6]

Hate to break the old news to you but at the rate the goverment is passing new laws the Vette and pick ups will be the only V8 you will see in the not to distant future.

You had bet worry more about the goverment capping HP on 4 cylinders as it is. I fear they will step up and limit size and power of the engines you will buy in the name of the all powerful global warming co levels.

All auto makers will have to do more with less the sooner GM embraces this the better as I don't see a way out of this this time.

We as car enthusiast will lose more and more of the rights to own the kind of cars we want in the coming future. the govement will deem it in our and societies best interest.

Big Brother is watching out for us and he hates Pontiac. and what it used to stand for.

On the other hand we have a two year supply of G3's

When you pry my cold, dead, hands from the wheel...

[CaddyXLR-V]

Hate to break the old news to you but at the rate the goverment is passing new laws the Vette and pick ups will be the only V8 you will see in the not to distant future.

You had bet worry more about the goverment capping HP on 4 cylinders as it is. I fear they will step up and limit size and power of the engines you will buy in the name of the all powerful global warming co levels.

All auto makers will have to do more with less the sooner GM embraces this the better as I don't see a way out of this this time.

We as car enthusiast will lose more and more of the rights to own the kind of cars we want in the coming future. the govement will deem it in our and societies best interest.

Big Brother is watching out for us and he hates Pontiac. and what it used to stand for.

On the other hand we have a two year supply of G3's

I believe our govt can't be stupid, but I doubt they are that stupid. Capping hp on engines? Not gonna happen.

[Oracle of Delphi]

GM will only pull the rug out from you yet again ...

I don't think you're going to like what's coming, but it will be interesting to watch it all play out, just the same ...

[CaddyXLR-V]

GM will only pull the rug out from you yet again ...

I don't think you're going to like what's coming, but it will be interesting to watch it all play out, just the same ...

Nope, GM will pull the rug out from themselves. I have other choices if GM shoots itself in the foot again.

In fact, I don't even have high hopes of GM doing the right thing. I already have it set in my head that they wont, but I keep a sliver of hope that they will. I have practically sworn off GM vehicles except my GTO until this plays out. If GM makes the wrong choice, I go somewhere else.

Edited April 14, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[longtooth]

When you pry my cold, dead, hands from the wheel...

They'll wait us out then crack some knuckles.

We gotta die sometime.

[Camino LS6]

They'll wait us out then crack some knuckles.

We gotta die sometime.

They don't have that kind of time.

[Oracle of Delphi]

They don't have that kind of time.

I wouldn't throw your present sig away just yet ...

[longtooth]

They don't have that kind of time.

The thought-police with their agenda have all of the time they'll need.

You referring to Pontiac's present dilemma?

[Camino LS6]

The thought-police with their agenda have all of the time they'll need.

You referring to Pontiac's present dilemma?

Yes.

The thought police will have to pry my hands from another device...

[longtooth]

Yes.

The thought police will have to pry my hands from another device...

Back when Chuck Heston was president of the NRA there was a good take-off on him as Moses and as head of the NRA.

See you at the Alamo.

[Camino LS6]

Back when Chuck Heston was president of the NRA there was a good take-off on him as Moses and as head of the NRA.

See you at the Alamo.

I'll be there.

Beats living in the "brave new world" I see being endorsed all around me.

[BigPontiac]

Stop thinking Scion and start thinking Mini (image not small cars). Mini has a far better image to emulate than Scion.

[longtooth]

I'll be there.

Beats living in the "brave new world" I see being endorsed all around me.

That it does though I'll side-step Armageddon until it does come down the street or tries to establish a beach-head. One if by land...

The tensions conspire to make people overwrought at times.

[wildpaws]

I believe our govt can't be stupid, but I doubt they are that stupid. Capping hp on engines? Not gonna happen.

Then you'd better wake up and smell the coffee!! Where have you been for the last 30-40 years while the fools at Disney on the Potomac have ruined most everything they have touched, passed laws and regulations that make little or no sense, and have sucessfully snuffed out much of our personal freedom and choices. Trust me, just as Rick Waggoner was replaced, there will be more and more laws and regulations brought to bear on GM (and others), if you think you will continue to have the choices and options that you should have you will be sadly mistaken. I feel that the new GM Chairman Obama will not hesitate to shut down Pontiac and anything else he feels like doing, and you won't even hear a whimper from the Supreme Court about what is/isn't constitutional.

Clyde

[Camino LS6]

That it does though I'll side-step Armageddon until it does come down the street or tries to establish a beach-head. One if by land...

The tensions conspire to make people overwrought at times.

I plan to confront the early indications whenever I see them.

I intend to be vocal in my opposition until such time as something more is required.

Freedoms are like muscles and brains, they need regular exercise.

[Camino LS6]

Stop thinking Scion and start thinking Mini (image not small cars). Mini has a far better image to emulate than Scion.

Agreed 100%

[longtooth]

I plan to confront the early indications whenever I see them.

I intend to be vocal in my opposition until such time as something more is required.

Freedoms are like muscles and brains, they need regular exercise.

White flour and the Internet have robbed many of their vitality.

And $h! like XboX.

Now my prejudices come shining through once more.

Btw, where's the sun been lately?

[Camino LS6]

The sun has been busy picking my pocket.

Thus, I am off to spend this evening in the race shop. :AH-HA_wink:

[longtooth]

The sun has been busy picking my pocket.

Thus, I am off to spend this evening in the race shop. :AH-HA_wink:

Have fun. When the weather breaks I hope you'll be busy until Christmas.

[hyperv6]

I believe our govt can't be stupid, but I doubt they are that stupid. Capping hp on engines? Not gonna happen.

Never under estimate the fools in DC. They have hit new levels of stupied every year.

They may not eliminate large engines but your goping to really have to pay a price for them.

The next thing we will see is taxes on soft drinks like they do cigeretts.... Did you ever expect to see that in your life time

In Japan already has large taxes on large displacment.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Never under estimate the fools in DC. They have hit new levels of stupied every year.

They may not eliminate large engines but your goping to really have to pay a price for them.

The next thing we will see is taxes on soft drinks like they do cigeretts.... Did you ever expect to see that in your life time

In Japan already has large taxes on large displacment.

I'd rather they tax by weight than by displacement. But I don't think they will ever CAP horsepower. Even Europe won't go that far.