Calling Ocn

[Intrepidation]

Since Ocn is in the biz I figured he would know, but anyone with info please share.

So I'm looking at photos of my car and I have to say...they depress the hell out of me. The driver's side looks terrible. There's the scrapes in fender and front door from when it was hit by a POS Protege, there's the scrapes left by that Integra that hit it, and over the winter someone scraped it further with the snow blower.

The replacement door is an improvement over the huge dent the original had, but it got scraped from the snow blower too. As well, I'm not sure if the door or the rub strip or both are misaligned...but I hate it so much. Also the paint shades are different. The rear bumper also has scrapes on it.

The passenger side is in better shape. I think it has a dent in the lower portion of the rear door...but that's it besides the dings and such.

There's also fitment issues where the rear bumper sags somewhat, and the hood doesn't line up level with the passenger fender.

As far as rust goes, the only spot I know of is the sport on the driver's door frame where it looks like paint chipped off somehow. It's been like that since day one...and hasn't gotten any worse.

Basically...I want, if possible, a rough ballpark of what it would cost to fix all of this and give it a good paint job. I don't want a $h!ty Macco one...I want one that will last. I want to keep it blue, but a deeper metallic hue like how it is in my sig.

This is priority #2...right after the new engine...so I'd just like to get an idea if possible of how much I'll need to save.

If more detail photos are needed I'll be happy to provide.

[Intrepidation]

It all depends on the shop and the prep work you are willing to do yourself. A full respray is going to be at least a couple of grand if you want a quality one, so I would get a quote from a restoration or custom shop on what it would be to touch up the rough spots and spray a darker tint of clear coat instead of a whole paint job since you only want a darker shade of blue instead of a whole color change.

Also, a quick look at Cars.com turns up a number of your generation Intrepids in the $4,000-$6,000 range. It may be cheaper just to buy a new car and transfer your current interior over.

You know that's not how I work.

Cost effective VS another car or deprecation in value matters not to me.

Thanks for the info so far. I'm expecting it would cost at least $3,000 for a decent paint job. So if it's higher than that I won't be surprised, if it's a little lower I won't complain.

[G. David Felt]

DF, actually Macco is not as bad as you make out. I spent a month Sanding the whole truck I had and I took off all chrome, trim, lights both front and rear. Had it pretty easy so when I took it too them, they reviewed the whole vehicle and pointed out some areas for body work that I said go ahead and fix and then I paid a little extra for some better paint and clear coat and still left with only paying out about $2000 + tax. The vehicle looked great and has been just fine.

I would stop by and get them to quote you out for the work you want done, ask them what you can do to keep costs down and they will be more than happy to point out what you can do to keep the cost down.

End result is you get your lovely car painted the way you want at a very decent price.

[Intrepidation]

I've heard that Macco can be alright, but it's very hit or miss and seems to depend largely on the quality of the people working at the shop. Of course this qualifies for every shop I guess...I just want to know that the paint/clearcoat and such that goes on their will look good and last.

[Cory Wolfe]

Back in the day, I wanted to overhaul the Millenia...

[Intrepidation]

Back in the day, I wanted to overhaul the Millenia...

Yeah, but you gave up.

[ocnblu]

The door you put on could have been off a car made in a different plant (cars with the same paint code but made in different plants do not match, this is called a paint variance), or it could have been on a car that was painted (with the shop not matching the factory color exactly), and when the moldings were put back on, they were moved higher than factory... they are only stuck on with 2-sided tape anyway, they aren't that hard to scrape off with a plastic scraper and a heat gun, retape, and re-use.

These guys are right about doing the de-trimming yourself, if you can manage it. There is a lot of labor charge in doing that stuff. Just measure where your side moldings go beforehand so you can put them back on in the factory position. The prices already posted are in the ballpark, as well. You will have to replace any emblems, especially the individual lettered ones, they're near impossible to re-use, and Chrysler is known for high-priced emblems and nameplates.

[Intrepidation]

The door you put on could have been off a car made in a different plant (cars with the same paint code but made in different plants do not match, this is called a paint variance), or it could have been on a car that was painted (with the shop not matching the factory color exactly), and when the moldings were put back on, they were moved higher than factory... they are only stuck on with 2-sided tape anyway, they aren't that hard to scrape off with a plastic scraper and a heat gun, retape, and re-use.

These guys are right about doing the de-trimming yourself, if you can manage it. There is a lot of labor charge in doing that stuff. Just measure where your side moldings go beforehand so you can put them back on in the factory position. The prices already posted are in the ballpark, as well. You will have to replace any emblems, especially the individual lettered ones, they're near impossible to re-use, and Chrysler is known for high-priced emblems and nameplates.

I doubt I can do the sanding myself...well I probably could but I don't know if I want to.

However I can de-trim it. Yes, Chrysler's emblems are silly expensive. I remember the dealer telling me the hood emblem was $20. As much as I do like the "D O D G E" letters on the sides...they're notorious for peeling. Instead I may just put a Dodge emblem on the fender's like how the 300M's emblems are done.

What about re aligning panels? Do they just do that as part of the paint process?

[Intrepidation]

Sanding isn't that difficult or expensive, its just time consuming. If you have a palm sander you can take care of much of it pretty quickly.

For what you want to do, you might want to do that yourself. All you have to do is find an auto body supply shop and pick up some shims. Then its just a case of disassembling, installing shims, reassembling, checking the fit, disassembling, etc. Otherwise you would have to specify that you wanted it done and be prepared to pay for a few hours of labor.

I see...

The rear bumper is the biggest offender, as there's a gap big enough to stick your finder in.

The hood doesn't sit level with the fender, and the front bumper on that same side has a habit of popping out slightly from under the headlight. pushing it back in only lasts for like, a day.

[ocnblu]

As for your hood fit to fender, does it fit high or low to the fender? If so, have you tried to adjust the hood bumpers up or down to achieve a better fit? The front bumper issue might indicate something like a previous accident in which the front structure is sideways, or swayed as we call it. If the frame rails are over just enough to cause the plastic bumper cover (which is attached to the impact bar, which is attached to the frame rails) to pop out on one side, that could be the issue. As for your door, does it open and close smoothly, or does it "fall" when it is opened? Try to just release the door by pulling on the handle as if you are opening the door, at the moment when the latch releases the door from the striker, you can see if the door falls, indicating an alignment problem. Adjusting the door striker on the post could solve that, but you have to be careful not to cause wind noise or a water leak. Shims are a bad idea, nobody uses shims any more. Shims are a lazy way to make up for underlying issues. Look at the body lines of the fender and rear door in relation to your replacement door. Does the top edge of the door shell line up with the top of the rear door? Don't look at trim, look at the actual door to door fit. Trim is soft parts, not hard parts, hard parts alignment is what you need to worry about first.

[Intrepidation]

As for your hood fit to fender, does it fit high or low to the fender? If so, have you tried to adjust the hood bumpers up or down to achieve a better fit? The front bumper issue might indicate something like a previous accident in which the front structure is sideways, or swayed as we call it. If the frame rails are over just enough to cause the plastic bumper cover (which is attached to the impact bar, which is attached to the frame rails) to pop out on one side, that could be the issue. As for your door, does it open and close smoothly, or does it "fall" when it is opened? Try to just release the door by pulling on the handle as if you are opening the door, at the moment when the latch releases the door from the striker, you can see if the door falls, indicating an alignment problem. Adjusting the door striker on the post could solve that, but you have to be careful not to cause wind noise or a water leak. Shims are a bad idea, nobody uses shims any more. Shims are a lazy way to make up for underlying issues. Look at the body lines of the fender and rear door in relation to your replacement door. Does the top edge of the door shell line up with the top of the rear door? Don't look at trim, look at the actual door to door fit. Trim is soft parts, not hard parts, hard parts alignment is what you need to worry about first.

Thanks for the info ocn.

I haven't tried adjusting the hood bumpers yet...will soon.

I do know the car was in an accident and repaired prior to my ownership.

I examined the door carefully, and I think it's properly aligned. The gaps seem even and the door doesn't fall when opened. I remember fussing with it when I replaced the door last year to get it as close as possible to correct. I'll get some photos of it and maybe you can give me your opnion on the alignment.

In the meantime, here's photos of the other problem areas:

As you can see, this side is fine.

[Intrepidation]

So here's the door fitment...

[Intrepidation]

I tired turning the hood bumper on teh passenger side to its lowest position. It makes a difference but it's still not quite right.

Before

After

[G. David Felt]

DF Nice job on the Door Alignment. Better than I have seen some shops do. I think in regards to the door trim, you will need to scrap it off and reaply it with fresh doubl stick tap to get them to match up. The other issues I would leave to the body shop as I think they will need a bit more work. The gap issue on the bumper could be shrinking plastic or more I think a missaligned bumper facia. The gap issue by the headlight is I suspect a brocken bracket that will need to be replaced unless the attachement point on the bumper is broken and then you will just have to replace the facia if you really want it correct or there is some short cuts you can do to get it to hold in, but never know what cold weather can do to cause it to break and pop again. Rust is easy to sand and prime unless it is all the way through, then you will want the body shop to do a cut and patch and they can grind it smooth and get it to look right.

Over all easy body work for a person who does it for a living, nice learning points for someone that wants to learn.

Good luck on your paint job.

[Intrepidation]

Thanks deft...I strive for perfection if at all possible...or as close as I can get anyway.

The rust isn't through...it's very solid (thankfully).

[ocnblu]

Oh I don't see much of an issue at all with the door fit, it looks fine. I'd say it's just a flooey placement of the side molding on your replacement door. Why not try waxing your black pillar trim to liven it up a bit, it looks dull in the pic compared to the rear door. Your "after" photo of the hood to fender fit looks a lot better. The bumper poking out, though, on one side makes me think more than ever it is a frame rail problem, with the rails being swayed over. Are the gaps hood to fender uniform from base of the windshield to the front edge of hood on both sides? Or do they widen or narrow as they come forward? If they are uniform on both sides, then maybe it is just the rail ends where the bar attaches, a simpler problem to fix.

[Intrepidation]

Oh I don't see much of an issue at all with the door fit, it looks fine. I'd say it's just a flooey placement of the side molding on your replacement door. Why not try waxing your black pillar trim to liven it up a bit, it looks dull in the pic compared to the rear door. Your "after" photo of the hood to fender fit looks a lot better. The bumper poking out, though, on one side makes me think more than ever it is a frame rail problem, with the rails being swayed over. Are the gaps hood to fender uniform from base of the windshield to the front edge of hood on both sides? Or do they widen or narrow as they come forward? If they are uniform on both sides, then maybe it is just the rail ends where the bar attaches, a simpler problem to fix.

I think it's just the trim that throws it off for me as well.

I agree that the black trim looks more faded on the front door and it bugs me. I thought you weren't supposed to wax unpainted surfaces though? Maybe I'm wrong there though.

I just went out and inspected the hood to fender gaps on both sides and they are both uniform from the windshield to the headlight.

[ocnblu]

That is a satin black painted part, it is a trim piece. I suggest waxing it to make it shiny like the piece on the rear door, just so it matches and makes the front door stand out less. What did you use to shine up the piece on the rear door? Just use the same stuff on the front.

You can get a roll of two-sided tape at Pep Boys. Use a heat source to warm the molding up, then gently peel it off with a plastic chisel or razor box. Get as much of the old two-sided tape off the molding as possible to make sure it lays flat and looks good when you re-adhere it to the door in the correct position. Use masking tape to position it and as a straight edge. Run the tape from at least the middle of the rear door molding, all the way past where the molding ends on the front door so you have a level baseline of where to stick the molding on.

For your rear bumper, take your taillights out and your trunk interior side trim so you can easier see where the fasteners are for the bumper cover. Inspect and tighten as necessary.

Edited April 15, 2009 by ocnblu

[Intrepidation]

I used nothing, that's how it was when I bought it.

Thank you so much for the tips! I'm going to do this tomorrow as soon as I get back from the junkyard with what I hope to be some other little goodies.

[Intrepidation]

How well does the double sided tape work anyway? As good as the stuff that holds the moldings on now?

[ocnblu]

Good 3M product and good preparation of the surfaces is key to long term success. Rubbing alcohol can work, rub the surface of the door to remove any wax and impurities so the tape sticks as tight as possible.

[Intrepidation]

Well I decided to tackle the rear bumper this morning. In teh wheel well there are four or 5 fasteners securing it to the wheel well cover, and a bolt securing it to the body. On the back there 3 push pins and 2 rubber bumper things withe screws that go through them. There's nothing under the tail lights.

I removed the back ones, and noticed the in order to make the bumper cover line up with the body, I have to hold it up, and it floats over the fastener holes. Maybe the support where the fascia mounts to is bent just enough to cause this?

[ocnblu]

Does your car have a metal fascia support going across the rear body panel of the car, below the trunk weatherstrip? It could be bent downward I guess. There are many possibilities, best thing to do is take the bumper cover off and look carefully for damage.

[Intrepidation]

Yes it does.

[ocnblu]

um ok

[Intrepidation]

Does your car have a metal fascia support going across the rear body panel of the car, below the trunk weatherstrip?

Yes it does.

Sorry if I answered that obscurely, haha. Anyway, I'll have to take a closer look at it when I have the chance to take the bumper cover off.

[ocnblu]

k

[Intrepidation]

Ah ha!

Here is the color that I want.

Deep Water Blue Pearl

[Camino LS6]

I love that color!

Remember when I said a blue Challenger really caught my eye?

That's what it looked like.

Sweet.

[Intrepidation]

I love that color!

Remember when I said a blue Challenger really caught my eye?

That's what it looked like.

Sweet.

Indeed, I fell in love with that color the first time I saw it at the auto show on a Challenger R/T.

[ocnblu]

I want that car with a Pentastar six and a six speed manual transmission. Dodgefan, use your influence to make it happen, m'kay?

[Intrepidation]

Good things come to those who wait. :wink:

[Paolino]

Ah ha!

Here is the color that I want.

Deep Water Blue Pearl

That's an awesome color! Then again, I'm a fan of most shades of blue!

[Intrepidation]

That's an awesome color! Then again, I'm a fan of most shades of blue!

Indeed, I think it's my favorite shade of blue I've ever seen on a car paint.

[A Horse With No Name]

Yeah, but you gave up.

Sixty Eight might not agree, but the Intrepid is about eleventy billion times more car than the Millinia. He was right to give up.

Seriously, if you can get the car to Columbus I can get you methinks a respray for a couple G's or so...same guy as painted my 55 Chevy and my 71 Chevelle.

His name is Steve Fisher, and he runs a good shop that does high end work. That black and gold 55 Chevy that was on the cover of Hot Rod a few years ago...that's a local Columbus car...Steve painted that.

I can't quote the price for sure, but he did quote me $1400 on a Miata I wanted painted and did say that he would be willing to do a basic respray on my older winter beater for a grand or so.

Depends on what you want done, and how well you want it done.

I also have another shop run by one of the local SCCA guy who charges about $3500. He's had a few Chevy trucks feautred in magazines, his work is super, he's painted 100 point frame off show cars that are just amazing.

There is a black 58 Ford convertible running around town that was a rustbucket that he did....

AMAZING work...

Good Luck!

Chris

[Intrepidation]

Thanks for the offer Chris. Ohio would be fun to go to again, especially since there are other people in Ohio I'd liek to meet.

As for the paint job, i want a quality one.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and I'd like to see the intrepid get one. I like your choice of color...if you want another nice blue, check out the blue on the 1999 10th Anniv. Miata, a little lighter and brighter than the blue you chose...

Didn't know the Challenger was avail. in that nice blue. I like that even better than the old B5 blue, which was a great chrysler color.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

Yeah it's called Deep Water Blue Pearl. I love the color, I'm pretty set on getting it painted that one.

[A Horse With No Name]

Can't say I blame you. I'll need to remember that color in case I ever build a street rod.

That would be just killer on a 34 Ford 3 Window....or a kit Cobra for that matter.

Chris

[Cory Wolfe]

...but the Intrepid is about eleventy billion times more car than the Millenia. He was right to give up.

I dont like you anymore.

[A Horse With No Name]

I dont like you anymore.

Hey, I'm a Mazda guy...

Would it help if I told you I was in lust over the Jetta...pre wreck of course...

Chris