REPORT: General Motors in "intense" bankruptcy preparations

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Nah, that kind of treatment is reserved for the financial sector.

What do you mean treatment? A company can do that if it wants, I just doubt ole Fritz has the kinda cash to pay all the taxes on it though.

Now the shareholders may be pissed and sue however.

But really, this is the option GM should have pursued from the beginning instead of seeking government aid.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Camino LS6]

What do you mean treatment? A company can do that if it wants, I just doubt ole Fritz has the kinda cash to pay all the taxes on it though.

Now the shareholders may be pissed and sue however.

OK, I didn't like the way "treatment" looked in my post either. How about we substitute "hubris".

[Blake Noble]

There isn't enough movie butter popcorn in the world to keep me fed while watching this drama unfold.

It's time to let GM's chickens come home to roost. It's been such a long time coming and there isn't a thing that anyone outside of GM can do to stop it.

There's only one thing we can do: sit back and chant, "I told you so."

[hyperv6]

Bingo. Its entirely conceivable in my mind that Buick be China-only. I wouldn't have said that 2 years ago but they've blurred those lines between Cadillac and Buick too much and the Cadillac brand has more equity both in North America and worldwide. A FWD SRX and the Escalade going Lambda seem to indicate to me that Cadillac models could easily replace the Buick ones currently sold here. Buick could be relegated to China as Holdens with some differentiation (China is a big market who's to say they can't have their OWN brand). Throw in a Epsilon II DTS and an Alpha STS and you've simply replaced the entire Buick lineup. I hate to say it as a BUICK FAN but I am a BUICK FAN second and a GM FAN first. I would be happy with almost any outcome as long as it involved Chevrolet and Cadillac surviving.

The fact is GM could let Buick live in China and make a profit. Then in a few years after Chevy and Caddy are stablized reintro Buick back to the N/A market.

GM and Chevy need to get back to basics and just build affordable, high quality cars, good on gas that people like.

The fact is Chevy is GM. If GM can not turn Chevy around nothing else matters. It is time GM get back to the core market and rebuilds. In time Toyota will appear to be the bloated company and GM the growing one.

Hyundia did just this. They went back and fixed everything they needed to. Now people love them as they offer cheap, affordable quality cars.

We here need to stop dreaming about GM building AWD Turbo pick ups, Kappa III and large RWD cars if they can't sell a Cruze or a even better Malibu in large numbers at a profit. GM needs to step up and make Chevy that are affordable better than anything on the market. As good as just will not do it. Making the core cars profitable will let GM do the kind of cars we want. You have to do the hard work before you play.

Even cars I hate like the Spark and Orlando need to beat not just meet the compitition.

We only need to look at the top selling cars to see what the real average people in this country want. Most are not fun cars but they pay pay the bills.

Also key is the Volt has to work and last long enough to permit a profitable second gen. GM needs to lead in this market. The Prius and new Honda get way too much credit for what they are. GM really has the better idea and needs to make it the right way to go. It is kind of like the Beta VHS fight. The winner take it all.

We here lament how GM should have changed over the years. We as GM fans much change too if we want our company to survive. I too am a GM fan first and division fan second. GM must live on.

[Camino LS6]

So tell me Hyper, do you predict that GM will be only Chevy and Cadillac when the dust settles?

And do you advocate that as a plan they should adopt?

Just wondering.

[Intrepidation]

I see no point in letting Buick just live in China, when it would costr so much to shut it down here and then "reopen it". On top of that, why shut it down when the LaCrosse is only months away? Assuming GM lives that long of course. The LaCrosse looks to finally be the class leading car we were promised over and over.

[Camino LS6]

I see no point in letting Buick just live in China, when it would costr so much to shut it down here and then "reopen it". On top of that, why shut it down when the LaCrosse is only months away? Assuming GM lives that long of course. The LaCrosse looks to finally be the class leading car we were promised over and over.

Where would you sell it,DF ?

[gmcbob]

Agreed.

And the mid is the sweet spot between volume and profit.

BPG could be a major force if GM had a clue as to how to get the job done.

"if GM had a clue as to how to get the job done"

I agree wholeheartedly with this Camino.

For years and years I watched my generation become more and more interested in fully loaded Accords, TL's, Lexus IS, Infiniti G's, loaded Camry's, etc, etc...as Buick and Pontiac offered less competitive, and fewer and fewer models throughout the 90s and then into this current decade. This happened while GM simultaneously killed Oldsmobile (the one "middle" brand that was actually attracting young professionals who may look at imports, especially women). One word for this - stupid. Okay, two words - insanely stupid.

I don't know, I think at this point GM is somewhat hopeless. Their strong point is still trucks in the eyes of too many consumers. Okay, maybe Cadillac.

If they go into any type or form of bankruptcy, their sales are going to absolutely tank. Its going to be terrifyingly ugly I'm afraid.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Hmmmm, like I said long ago, Chevy, Buick and Cadillac .... As Porky Pig says, bla, bla bla, that's all folks ...

[Croc]

I am saying that the other brands will die if they try to survive without the third.

There is a massive logical fallacy here because of your underlying assumption that the sales channels will be kept intact as-is. There is no reason to believe this assumption is true. Fact: the core brands as GM has identified are Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC, with Pontiac as a niche brand. Fact: the only brands GM has expressed a desire to remove from its portfolio are SAAB, Saturn and HUMMER. Fact: President Obama specifically praised Buick during his speech:

No one can deny that our auto industry has made meaningful progress in recent years. Some of the cars made by American workers are now outperforming the best cars made abroad. In 2008, the North American Car of the Year was a GM. This year, Buick tied for first place as the most reliable car in the world. And our companies are investing in breakthrough technologies that hold the promise of new vehicles that will help America end its addiction to foreign oil.

Now, assuming GM's core strategy with its brands does not change, even with retaining Pontiac as a niche brand, what could happen? Pontiac could be paired with Chevrolet dealerships. I bet they'd love to have the G8 next to the Camaro in showrooms. No Chevrolet Nomad, so look, there's the Solstice. I bet G6 coupe/convertible sales would improve if they were in big volume Chevrolet showrooms, and they offer something the Malibu does not.

Buick could easily be paired with Cadillac. I don't feel I need to explain how this would work.

GMC could also be sold with Cadillac and Buick. Look! You now have two sales channels: Volume and Premium! Wow, it makes logical sense, too!

[Camino LS6]

Hmmmm, like I said long ago, Chevy, Buick and Cadillac .... As Porky Pig says, bla, bla bla, that's all folks ...

Perhaps.

And then just Chevy and Cadillac...

And then just Chevy...

And then...

[regfootball]

it's really disturbing that GM may axe both saturn and pontiac, and assume they will get ANY of the young persons demographic with Chevy alone.

i got my pontiac magazine in the mail yesterday, and even now, articles and snippets about buick and GMC are invading that......as if soon to say, well, pontiac is no longer car, pontiac is no longer......

interesting story. my buddy the VW banger who finally decided to sell his beloved passat (because he got his new company car, a malibu which he likes a lot) calls me to tell me about which rentals he gets. A couple weeks ago he called me because he got a G6 GXP as a rental and he said he really loved that car too. Today he called me, said he got a regular G6, and he did not like it all. (I for one think the G6 is not bad, not great but overall still alright).

All the things that make the good car are the things that Pontiac needs to include in each car on the lot. And they can, if they commit resources to it. Its not like Pontiac needs more than 3, 4 cars.

The Cruze is nice and all, CHevy is headed in the right direction, etc. Buick appears on the uptick. But GM is committing major suicide on the younger demographic I feel. Which is why even after all this, they won't have a brand in place to cultivate new buyers in the future.

[Camino LS6]

There is a massive logical fallacy here because of your underlying assumption that the sales channels will be kept intact as-is. There is no reason to believe this assumption is true. Fact: the core brands as GM has identified are Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC, with Pontiac as a niche brand. Fact: the only brands GM has expressed a desire to remove from its portfolio are SAAB, Saturn and HUMMER. Fact: President Obama specifically praised Buick during his speech:

Now, assuming GM's core strategy with its brands does not change, even with retaining Pontiac as a niche brand, what could happen? Pontiac could be paired with Chevrolet dealerships. I bet they'd love to have the G8 next to the Camaro in showrooms. No Chevrolet Nomad, so look, there's the Solstice. I bet G6 coupe/convertible sales would improve if they were in big volume Chevrolet showrooms, and they offer something the Malibu does not.

Buick could easily be paired with Cadillac. I don't feel I need to explain how this would work.

GMC could also be sold with Cadillac and Buick. Look! You now have two sales channels: Volume and Premium! Wow, it makes logical sense, too!

Or not.

[Croc]

Or not.

Exactly--or not. But at this point it is all purely speculative. There is not sufficient proof to definitely say that Buick and GMC will die without Pontiac, just like there isn't enough proof to definitively say Pontiac is going the way of the Dodo. Oakland went away and the rest of GM soldiered on. Oldsmobile went away and other brands didn't catastrophically suffer directly because of that. Pontiac is not some kind of lynchpin for half of GM's "volume" sales channels.

[Camino LS6]

Exactly--or not. But at this point it is all purely speculative. There is not sufficient proof to definitely say that Buick and GMC will die without Pontiac, just like there isn't enough proof to definitively say Pontiac is going the way of the Dodo. Oakland went away and the rest of GM soldiered on. Oldsmobile went away and other brands didn't catastrophically suffer directly because of that. Pontiac is not some kind of lynchpin for half of GM's "volume" sales channels.

And, if you've read this far, you know I never made that claim.

What I said was that None of the three can survive without the other two.

Meaning the BPG channel would fail with two brands as opposed to three.

As I said before, you could hide a Chinese Buick in the back of a Caddy showroom but that's about it.

[Oracle of Delphi]

And, if you've read this far, you know I never made that claim.

What I said was that None of the three can survive without the other two.

Meaning the BPG channel would fail with two brands as opposed to three.

As I said before, you could hide a Chinese Buick in the back of a Caddy showroom but that's about it.

Oh no, not the 3 legged stool theory again ...

[BuddyP]

Weird that they say Pontiac and no mention of Buick or GMC. I drove last week on a trip from Seattle to Yosemite National Park. Everyone should visit, Damn that place is awesome.

I would love to get an updated Syclone or even a new Typhoon. Imagen a new 3.6DI twin Turbo in a Terrain type package!

I was forunate enough to have been there about 8 years ago. Was in the bay area for work and on the weekend I drove out to Yosemite for the day. 4 hours each way. Was November, color in the trees in the valley and snow at higher elevations.

Had a '91 Syclone for about 4 yrs from '97 to '01. Had a lot of fun with it. It was truley a unique vehicle.

[z28luvr01]

Exactly--or not. But at this point it is all purely speculative. There is not sufficient proof to definitely say that Buick and GMC will die without Pontiac, just like there isn't enough proof to definitively say Pontiac is going the way of the Dodo. Oakland went away and the rest of GM soldiered on. Oldsmobile went away and other brands didn't catastrophically suffer directly because of that. Pontiac is not some kind of lynchpin for half of GM's "volume" sales channels.

Kill one of BPG, and you have to dilute one or both of the remaining brands to keep the channel operating as a full-line brand

- If you kill Pontiac, then Buick has to sell small affordable performance/economy cars that dilute its quest to be "premium"

- Kill Buick, and Pontiac has to start selling larger cars/crossovers that don't lend themselves well to the "affordable performance" mantra

- Kill GMC, and Pontiac and/or Buick will have to sell fullsized and midsized trucks and SUVs, and I don't need to mention that that'll go over like a fart in a spacesuit.

[Camino LS6]

Z gets it.

But then he always has.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Kill one of BPG, and you have to dilute one or both of the remaining brands to keep the channel operating as a full-line brand

- If you kill Pontiac, then Buick has to sell small affordable performance/economy cars that dilute its quest to be "premium"

- Kill Buick, and Pontiac has to start selling larger cars/crossovers that don't lend themselves well to the "affordable performance" mantra

- Kill GMC, and Pontiac and/or Buick will have to sell fullsized and midsized trucks and SUVs, and I don't need to mention that that'll go over like a fart in a spacesuit.

Kill GMC, Chevy sells the same truck. Kill Pontiac, Chevy will have what you need when all is said and done. That leaves you Chevy, Buick, Cadillac - Low, medium, high brands ... Perfecto ...

[longtooth]

that'll go over like a fart in a spacesuit.

Quoting Harland Williams in 1997's "RocketMan": "Now that was Julie!"

[Intrepidation]

Kill GMC, Chevy sells the same truck. Kill Pontiac, Chevy will have what you need when all is said and done. That leaves you Chevy, Buick, Cadillac - Low, medium, high brands ... Perfecto ...

Sad to say, but assuming Buick gets a full lineup, that makes the most sense and is the easiest to actually do right.

[Camino LS6]

Kill GMC, Chevy sells the same truck. Kill Pontiac, Chevy will have what you need when all is said and done. That leaves you Chevy, Buick, Cadillac - Low, medium, high brands ... Perfecto ...

Yeah right.

Way to turn Buick into Saab.

GM's "also-ran" brand no one will buy.

And where will they buy it anyway?

Bad, bad, plan.

[wildcat]

Oh, I get what you're saying. But you don't seem to understand me: what you're proposing is NOT what GM most recently announced its intentions were. And Pontiac_Custom-S has said, for the longest time, that Pontiac will be axed (not if, but when - as a matter of timing). Do you believe him?

[Camino LS6]

Oh, I get what you're saying. But you don't seem to understand me: what you're proposing is NOT what GM most recently announced its intentions were. And Pontiac_Custom-S has said, for the longest time, that Pontiac will be axed (not if, but when - as a matter of timing). Do you believe him?

I don't dispute what GM has said.

I just don't think its too smart.

As for PCS, well...

[MyerShift]

This is dreadful news.

And in some ways it shocks me that it would have come to this.

PS, I like Buick. My favourite GMNA division.

[wildcat]

Z gets it. But then he always has.

GM has said it will give Buick more models, in order to have a full range.

That leaves you Chevy, Buick, Cadillac - Low, medium, high brands ... Perfecto ...

He gets it!

Sad to say, but assuming Buick gets a full lineup, that makes the most sense and is the easiest to actually do right.

Yes, it does make sense.

GM's "also-ran" brand no one will buy. And where will they buy it anyway?

Are you talking about Buick (or Saab)? I'll buy a Buick. All the Enclave owners bought one. The new LaCrosse should stir some people to buy it. Why can't GM just consolidate Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac into a one-stop store? Good, better, best?

Edited April 8, 2009 by wildcat

[Croc]

Z gets it.

But then he always has.

Don't be snide. Your argument only holds water if the assumption is that the present sales channel structure will hold, and GM has already been thinking about switching it up. Remember the idea floated a few months ago to add SAAB to Cadillac-HUMMER? Nothing is set in stone, especially where dealers and sales channels are concerned.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Croc

[Camino LS6]

Sad to say, but assuming Buick gets a full lineup, that makes the most sense and is the easiest to actually do right.

Not so fast!

Easy?

I think not.

After you go through all of the expense and disaster of killing BPG, Saturn, Hummer, and Saab, what do you have?

- Debt that will last longer than cars as we know them

- Permanent loss of a major chunk of market share

- A PR disaster

- No money for those New Buicks

- And those Buicks will start from a near zero spot in the eyes of the buying public even if you can borrow the money to create them.

That plan is suicide.

[Croc]

And Pontiac_Custom-S has said, for the longest time, that Pontiac will be axed (not if, but when - as a matter of timing). Do you believe him?

As for PCS, well...

He works for BMW now. GM has corporate ADD and changes its mind rapidly about these kinds of things...I don't doubt PCS has some inside info that is still relevant, but how long is that going to last? He isn't going to be "in the know" much longer, if he ever really was. Anyone can post fantastic projections of the future on an anonymous message board, and credibly with enough grains of truth behind them. Of course, why would someone post things online if they are really that well-connected, knowing that their employment will be in jeopardy when (not if) GM finds out.

[wildcat]

- No money for those New Buicks

Nobody said it will be easy. No matter what GM does, it won't be easy. (Personally, I think that they better hurry up and file for BK now! Don't wait until 60 days have elapsed.) But, to answer your question, China's Buick sales will finance Buicks for NA.

[wildcat]

He works for BMW now.

When did this happen? I did notice the BMW in his signature, but... Did he talk about it in the Lounge? I thought, per his own words, he would follow Carl-Peter Forster into Hell?

[Oracle of Delphi]

He works for BMW now. GM has corporate ADD and changes its mind rapidly about these kinds of things...I don't doubt PCS has some inside info that is still relevant, but how long is that going to last? He isn't going to be "in the know" much longer, if he ever really was. Anyone can post fantastic projections of the future on an anonymous message board, and credibly with enough grains of truth behind them. Of course, why would someone post things online if they are really that well-connected, knowing that their employment will be in jeopardy when (not if) GM finds out.

I don't know, CPF and I are friends, I think I will know for a long while ...

[Camino LS6]

Nobody said it will be easy. No matter what GM does, it won't be easy. (Personally, I think that they better hurry up and file for BK now! Don't wait until 60 days have elapsed.) But, to answer your question, China's Buick sales will finance Buicks for NA.

On that first part there can be no argument, easy isn't part of this reality.

As for the second, maybe if you're lucky.

However, Buick isn't likely to manage anything beyond niche status here in North America without a minor miracle. Especially in Cadillac's shadow.

But let's assume that all goes exceptionally well.

Even then it is unlikely that Chevy, Cadillac and Buick alone will ever be able to bring GMNA back into the black.

Much like the baby boom will demolish social security, GM's past will destroy any future such a scaled-down version might otherwise have.

I think this approach just ends it for GMNA.

[Oracle of Delphi]

When did this happen? I did notice the BMW in his signature, but... Did he talk about it in the Lounge? I thought, per his own words, he would follow Carl-Peter Forster into Hell?

CPF came from BMW, don't forget ...

[Intrepidation]

I'm pretty sure killing off and consolidating dealers will be part of the bankruptcy. On top of that if Buick gets a completely lineup the BPG will just have to become Buick dealers.

Also, either way GM will have to come up with new models. Having 3 brands with clear goals makes it easier to design models that don't overlap and are focused.

I'm also pretty sure market share is the last thing on their mind. Becoming right size and being able to keep supply in check with demand, and being profitable is much more important than whoring out the most cars that compete with each other to Avis lots.

So what should GM do? Keep all of its brands and just continue down the path to oblivion? I think not...not if we want to see any of the company survive.

[Camino LS6]

I'm pretty sure killing off and consolidating dealers will be part of the bankruptcy. On top of that if Buick gets a completely lineup the BPG will just have to become Buick dealers.

Also, either way GM will have to come up with new models. Having 3 brands with clear goals makes it easier to design models that don't overlap and are focused.

I'm also pretty sure market share is the last thing on their mind. becoming right size and being able to keep supply in check with demand, and being profitable is much more important than whoring out the most cars that compete with each other to Avis lots.

So what should GM do? Keep all of its brands and just continue down the path to oblivion? I think not...not if we want to see any of the company survive.

Buick simply cannot ever make it as a stand alone brand!

Please!

You must be joking.

[wildcat]

However, Buick isn't likely to manage anything beyond niche status here in North America

I'm okay with niche status, but there's room between Chevy and Cadillac; at least Buick survives. Cadillac isn't likely to manage anything beyond niche status in Europe.

Even then it is unlikely that Chevy, Cadillac and Buick alone will ever be able to bring GMNA back into the black.

I don't know specifically what Obama's team or GM has planned, other than what they said to the press. I hope they're developing something radical and worthwhile. Frankly, in my heart, GM is Chevrolet / Pontiac / Oldsmobile / Buick / Cadillac. If, for example, only Chevy and Cadillac survive, it's no longer GM to me.

Much like the baby boom will demolish social security, GM's past will destroy any future such a scaled-down version might otherwise have.

As I said earlier, I'm hoping for something good and am not willing to give up on GM yet.

[Camino LS6]

I'm okay with niche status, but there's room between Chevy and Cadillac; at least Buick survives. Cadillac isn't likely to manage anything beyond niche status in Europe.

I don't know specifically what Obama's team or GM has planned, other than what they said to the press. I hope they're developing something radical and worthwhile. Frankly, in my heart, GM is Chevrolet / Pontiac / Oldsmobile / Buick / Cadillac. If, for example, only Chevy and Cadillac survive, it's no longer GM to me.

As I said earlier, I'm hoping for something good and am not willing to give up on GM yet.

Well then you'd be pleased if my hopes come true as well.

I believe that the only shot GMNA has left is three sales channels comprised of all of the core brands.

We've all heard about " too big too fail", right?

Well, the way I see it, anything less than Chevy, Cadillac, and BPG would be "too small to succeed".

[wildcat]

Buick simply cannot ever make it as a stand alone brand!

Please!

You must be joking.

And your source is what? Your opinion? (As I've been saying to you tonight, I'm trying to avoid going by my opinion and go by the facts which GM has announced. Hopefully, that will give a realistic take on the future.) Sorry to keep referring to P_C-S, but I just want to remind you of something he said, to the effect of... one has to leave their past impression of Buicks behind and imagine something else, something that expands the brand. Somebody else from GM said that, too: Dave Lyon. He seems like a sincere, good guy.

[Camino LS6]

And your source is what? Your opinion? (As I've been saying to you tonight, I'm trying to avoid going by my opinion and go by the facts which GM has announced. Hopefully, that will give a realistic take on the future.) Sorry to keep referring to P_C-S, but I just want to remind you of something he said, to the effect of... one has to leave their past impression of Buicks behind and imagine something else, something that expands the brand. Somebody else from GM said that, too: Dave Lyon. He seems like a sincere, good guy.

That's all well and good, but there is simply no way that any GM brand other than Chevy and Cadillac can stand alone in this time and place.

It is just not possible.

You can't create that sort of customer base out of thin air.

Hell it hasn't been possible for decades.

Think about it.

Make no mistake, what PCS talks about does not include stand-alone Buick stores.

Ask him.

[wildcat]

Make no mistake, what PCS talks about does not include stand-alone Buick stores.

That's why I asked if GM may do Chevrolet - Buick - Cadillac stores. Fritz Henderson keeps saying they have to re-invent GM, so why isn't a GM "superstore," with all three brands, feasible? And please don't tell me the Cadillac snobs will hold their noses walking by the Chevies and Buicks on the same showroom floor

[Camino LS6]

That's why I asked if GM may do Chevrolet - Buick - Cadillac stores. Fritz Henderson keeps saying they have to re-invent GM, so why isn't a GM "superstore," with all three brands, feasible? And please don't tell me the Cadillac snobs will hold their noses walking by the Chevies and Buicks on the same showroom floor

I'd call it unlikely.

Cadillac protects itself pretty actively on that front.

I've often thought such a store (with or without Caddy) would have been a better way to downsize GM before this crisis hit. Might have forced an earlier end to duplication and badge- engineered product too.

We may never know now.

[Z-06]

It is one thing to strategically reduce volume by reducing fleeting, etc. and it is another thing to reduce volume by killing volume brands. Yes bottom line is a combination of volume and profitability. But converting volume into profits is a better task than reducing volume to be profitable.

Just like Carbiz said what if the market suddenly becomes a 20 million unit market. Suddenly there will be a gap between Chevy and Caddy, which it will not be able to supply. GM was looking to be profitable with a 12 million market. Chevy, Caddy and Buick on their own will not sustain GM in a 20 million market.

I think GM is again being short sighted like it was earlier. In a city like Orlando you have three Cadillac dealers to one Lexus, BMW or MB dealer, yet have about third the sale compared to those foreign brands. Talk of inefficiency. If GM needs to pare of extra weight, it should go off in dealerships, plants, etc. Not by cutting brands other than Hummer, Saab, or Saturn. However, I do feel Saab and/or Saturn can survive efficiently with one or two model lineup like Mini.

GM should make Pontiac, Buick development as dependent on other brands as they are doing GMC, yet with differentiation. What is sad is with the current state of affair all the good investment GM has made into Opel, Holden, some of Saab, will go down the drain when GM starts the cutting thoughtlessly. The new owners will just eat the pie on GM's hard work, just like Tata is partially doing now with Jaguar.

GM is at fault of not letting government understand that its plans are correct, BPG is one brand not three, etc. Just because GM is begging for money and the government is pretending to not to waste its money and giving GM suggestions, does not mean that those suggestions are correct and should hold. It is far from that. GM should make their case strongly and it is GM's duty to convince why their plan makes sense rather than meekly surrendering to the opposition's (government's) thoughtless suggestions.

[vonVeezelsnider]

What I don't get is GMC, which is a profitable asset. By all accounts it's gonna get cut, perhaps because of Obama and Co.'s rhetoric on green cars and not focusing on trucks but at the same time, I may only be a single year into my 4.5yr International Finance degree but at the same time they've already taught us that within reason you shouldn't walk away from a slot machine that's spitting out tokens...

[Camino LS6]

Well put, smallchevy.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I'd call it unlikely.

Cadillac protects itself pretty actively on that front.

I've often thought such a store (with or without Caddy) would have been a better way to downsize GM before this crisis hit. Might have forced an earlier end to duplication and badge- engineered product too.

We may never know now.

You know Cadillacs and Chevys sell in the same showroom in Canada and that arrangement has worked out well enough... Additionally we have a dealership on the other side of town that has all but Saab and Saturn under one roof (not a good idea IMO)

[wildcat]

Cadillac protects itself pretty actively on that front.

I thought I read in posts on this very site that Cadillac seems like it's in a "retreat," from Europe... with the STS vs DTS or whatever... FWD vs RWD... blah-blah-blah. Like Fritz Henderson's words, all the involved parties are going to have to do whatever it takes. Chevrolet selling Pontiacs and Cadillac selling Buicks is okay with me

[Z-06]

What I don't get is GMC, which is a profitable asset. By all accounts it's gonna get cut, perhaps because of Obama and Co.'s rhetoric on green cars and not focusing on trucks but at the same time, I may only be a single year into my 4.5yr International Finance degree but at the same time they've already taught us that within reason you shouldn't walk away from a slot machine that's spitting out tokens...

That is exactly GM will end up doing not only with GMC, but also with Holden, Opel, SAAB and others. Especially SAAB, they waited fracking 19 years to give any decent product, now when they decided for a 9-4X, updated 9-5, 9-3 and possibly a new 9-1 they are going to handover the entire pie to a buyer who already has readymade everything from good platforms to dealerships. Other than Hummer, no other brand is worth letting go considering the amount of investment.

I understand that GM has no money. But someone needs to tell the head honchos at GM how to play brinkmanship. Good God they are pathetic in any kind of negotiations.

[ShadowDog]

Well, I can clearly see it's pointless to share an opinion here on the subject; however, two things stand out among all of this:

1) Nostalgia isn't part of the business dictionary. Change or die. In the case for GM, produce significant change or die.

2) All of the discussion that revolves around a declaration that GM will die if not for a plethora of brands to continue does not answer the question: "Why not?" GM has product for all markets with their three core marketable brands. ...since everyone has a different idea of what their core marketable brands are, I'll point out they are: Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick. Why can they not survive with that? You can still produce the 'almighty' performance products through Chevrolet without watering down exclusivity with typical badge engineering. You can still develop product on shared platforms between three divisions that includes trucks and SUVs for their necessary markets. You can still conduct volume sales to provide necessary production flow. You can still save money by having less 'me-too' development between a mix of unnecessary brands.

Okay, I'll still share my opinion. Somehow I don't know how Buick even fits in here.