Iowa gay marriage ban ruled unconstitutional

[loki]

Well until the decent people stop being total cowards and start distancing themselves from the crazies theologically, it doesn't matter to me--everyone's complicit. But the funny thing is that the crazies seem to be more theologically on-point with the organization's views...religion is the problem, not the solution. You start throwing bull$h! around like "afterlife," "salvation," and "infinity," and then attach strings to them, you're just begging for the sheeple to turn off their brains in the singular pursuit of these fairy tales.

...thus entering , or exiting, the "silent majority"

[capriceman]

God damnit back in my day You would be takin out back and shot!

^

Glad those days are ending.

[ocnblu]

Shot? You mean like right in the eye? Cuz I hear that stuff burrrrrns.

[K.C.]

Shot? You mean like right in the eye? Cuz I hear that stuff burrrrrns.

Well, a money shot in your eye CAN blind you.

[Satty]

Maybe thats why all those far-right nutjobs are against gays, they're just concerned for their ocular health.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

How about an alliance between gun rights owners and gay marriage advocates?

Its a win-win for both sides, powerful organizations seeking greater liberties for all Americans.

After all, how hypocritical can you be to support rights for everyone in one category and not another? (and do go about saying that i am a hypocrite cause i am fully aware that past decisions of mine greatly conflict with this and have been nagging at the back of my mind ever since making them).

lol. Although there is a group up in San Francisco called like the Pink Pistols who are a gun rights advocacy group that marches in the rainbow parade or whatever its called.

[pow]

How about an alliance between gun rights owners and gay marriage advocates?

Its a win-win for both sides, powerful organizations seeking greater liberties for all Americans.

After all, how hypocritical can you be to support rights for everyone in one category and not another? (and do go about saying that i am a hypocrite cause i am fully aware that past decisions of mine greatly conflict with this and have been nagging at the back of my mind ever since making them).

lol. Although there is a group up in San Francisco called like the Pink Pistols who are a gun rights advocacy group that marches in the rainbow parade or whatever its called.

A militia of drag queens yielding AK47s and rainbow flags... that's going to scare the crap out of people who are already "fearful" of gays and lesbians.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

A militia of drag queens yielding AK47s and rainbow flags... that's going to scare the crap out of people who are already "fearful" of gays and lesbians.

what are they yielding them to? the government?

[§carlet §wordfish]

How about an alliance between gun rights owners and gay marriage advocates?

Its a win-win for both sides, powerful organizations seeking greater liberties for all Americans.

After all, how hypocritical can you be to support rights for everyone in one category and not another? (and do go about saying that i am a hypocrite cause i am fully aware that past decisions of mine greatly conflict with this and have been nagging at the back of my mind ever since making them).

lol. Although there is a group up in San Francisco called like the Pink Pistols who are a gun rights advocacy group that marches in the rainbow parade or whatever its called.

I was just thinking about this while browsing the gun show the other day and reading all the obnoxious bumper stickers for sale.

I imagine the counter-argument would be something like "Gun ownership is a constitutional right, gay marriage isn't".

[pow]

what are they yielding them to? the government?

wielding*

[ocnblu]

Mr. Swordfish, I dint know Captainbooyah had obnoxious bumper stickers for sale. Edited April 6, 2009 by ocnblu

[Camino LS6]

What kills me is how much time this country wastes arguing over issues like this which are "self-evident" in my opinion.

Injustice is obvious when you are being honest with yourself.

And banning gay marriage is an injustice no less obvious than legal segregation was.

We need to grow up and admit the reality of that.

It really is a no-brainer.

[Bimmer325]

And banning gay marriage is an injustice no less obvious than legal segregation was.

Agreed 100%. I honestly can't believe there are people who still think gay marriage is an "argument" of some sort. It's more an issue of right vs. wrong than anything else.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Agreed 100%. I honestly can't believe there are people who still think gay marriage is an "argument" of some sort. It's more an issue of right vs. wrong than anything else.

Well amongst the learned, the only argument surrounding marriage is - is it the purpose of government to even recognize it?

IMO, all the government should do is be able to offer "contracts" designating who will take care of them medically and whatnot, as Olds pointed out as a massive drawback to not being able to be married. However, the government should have no responsibility other then that, they should not be able to discriminate amongst the married and the non-married for ANY purpose.

[loki]

Well amongst the learned, the only argument surrounding marriage is - is it the purpose of government to even recognize it?

IMO, all the government should do is be able to offer "contracts" designating who will take care of them medically and whatnot, as Olds pointed out as a massive drawback to not being able to be married. However, the government should have no responsibility other then that, they should not be able to discriminate amongst the married and the non-married for ANY purpose.

+1

anything else is discrimination

just like how affirmative action is discrimination

your first statement... learned... hehe, the stereotype that comes to mind are the "over-learned" "ivy league" that would not agree with what you said... but that's just stereotypes that come to mind.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well amongst the learned, the only argument surrounding marriage is - is it the purpose of government to even recognize it?

IMO, all the government should do is be able to offer "contracts" designating who will take care of them medically and whatnot, as Olds pointed out as a massive drawback to not being able to be married. However, the government should have no responsibility other then that, they should not be able to discriminate amongst the married and the non-married for ANY purpose.

I'm not one of those people who is stuck on the word "marriage" on a government level. I DON'T want homosexual civil unions if heterosexuals get separate laws in marriage, but I would take civil union if that is what was offered to heterosexuals also.

Basically, whichever law that allows me to legally bond with my partner should be the same law that allows a heterosexual couple to be joined.

[K.C.]

What kills me is how much time this country wastes arguing over issues like this which are "self-evident" in my opinion.

Injustice is obvious when you are being honest with yourself.

And banning gay marriage is an injustice no less obvious than legal segregation was.

We need to grow up and admit the reality of that.

It really is a no-brainer.

Best post in the whole thread here. There seems to be a lack of perspective in the U.S.A, and the main excuse seems to be religious beliefs and morals. Morals and religion are obviously tied together, because it's the word of religion leaders that seeks to control other's sexual behaviors, which are inherently instinctive in all humans. No one has to think to get "aroused". It just happens in a stimulus-reponse situation. For example, see a hot girl/guy. . get a boner. Stimulus. . response. Like race and ethnicity, there is more than one type of this attraction. There are those that prefer the outdoor plumbing, and those that prefer the indoor plumbing. Both should receive the same rights. Until everyone has the same rights, there is no freedom and those who tout the U.S.A. as a free country aren't telling the whole truth. It will continue to be freedom for only the majority.

[loki]

Best post in the whole thread here. There seems to be a lack of perspective in the U.S.A, and the main excuse seems to be religious beliefs and morals. Morals and religion are obviously tied together, because it's the word of religion leaders that seeks to control other's sexual behaviors, which are inherently instinctive in all humans. No one has to think to get "aroused". It just happens in a stimulus-reponse situation. For example, see a hot girl/guy. . get a boner. Stimulus. . response. Like race and ethnicity, there is more than one type of this attraction. There are those that prefer the outdoor plumbing, and those that prefer the indoor plumbing. Both should receive the same rights. Until everyone has the same rights, there is no freedom and those who tout the U.S.A. as a free country aren't telling the whole truth. It will continue to be freedom for only the majority.

...counter point....

are you saying... morals being tied to religion... "atheists" don't have morals then? cause i'm sure there are people out there that would disagree.

I don't believe religion has to tie people down. obviously some of the worse decisions are made for religious purposes, but equally bad ones are made for science.

Ethics and morals are together, but even those can contradict each other...

there will be things religions believe that will never be proven by science. but many moral judgments are based more so on natural law.

having said this, obviously we, well, many of us (as a whole society) are learned, to some point.

Don't you dare think i'm trying to be mean by saying these next things!

natural law = gays can't have children, if it's a monogamous relationship. (monogamy was practiced in many more religions than Jewish, Christian, Muslim sects)

if being gay has anything to do with genetics, suppressing gay "unions" is anti-natural law.

obviously this wouldn't prevent more people growing old and realizing they are gay, it would only reduce that number.

unless it's not genetics... and say more about pollution/nutrition or just something the mother can't help while pregnant.

as long as "gay propaganda" isn't pushed on children of parents that don't want their children exposed to such things in state institutions aka, taking parenting rights away from them. i have little problem with allowing such things going on...

the problem i still have is it being called a marriage. usually marriage in the wider use of the word is used for 2 different things being joined, like chemistry.

[Camino LS6]

Semantic issues mostly, Loki.

[K.C.]

I was speaking of the religious mouths that speak loudly against those in the gay community. I was speaking of this based on what I have read and heard in the media, not as a generality. I did not bring up atheists because I have not heard their beliefs mentioned in the press regarding this issue. To be honest, I did not even think about the atheists while writing my posting.

[K.C.]

A friend of mine wrote this and sent it to me. I thought it was funny, asked his permission to share it. It was granted, so I am posting it.

10 Reasons why Gay Marriage is WRONG! <written by my buddy SD>

1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans

[loki]

Semantic issues mostly, Loki.

Semantics are were loopholes are made.

I was speaking of the religious mouths that speak loudly against those in the gay community. I was speaking of this based on what I have read and heard in the media, not as a generality. I did not bring up atheists because I have not heard their beliefs mentioned in the press regarding this issue. To be honest, I did not even think about the atheists while writing my posting.

and this is where we typically have quarrels(generalizing too much). I know it can be hard to think ahead how your post will be taken, but trying to be consise will keep these to a minimum.

[loki]

A friend of mine wrote this and sent it to me. I thought it was funny, asked his permission to share it. It was granted, so I am posting it.

10 Reasons why Gay Marriage is WRONG! <written by my buddy SD>

.....

seen before... hehe. but it just plays on pop culture stereotypes, it's funny, but doesn't address why some people have legit reasons why they oppose it.

[K.C.]

Semantics are were loopholes are made.

and this is where we typically have quarrels(generalizing too much). I know it can be hard to think ahead how your post will be taken, but trying to be consise will keep these to a minimum.

Whenever I can read people's minds, I will begin writing posts for concisiveness. Until then, what you read is what you get from posts by K.C. I have low expectations for posts from others. I take everyone's post with a grain of salt. The same should probably be done for mine.

[longtooth]

Were 'it' natural, this so-called debate would not exist.

Try legislating a tree into existence.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

I demand to have my equality as a man upheld by also forcing women to join the selective service.

Try legislating a tree into existence.

the government can legislate to plant a forest, which is ... oh yeah legislating a tree into existence (because a tree comes from a sapling which is not yet a tree).

Now i'd like them to see them try to legislate a hyperbollomionomium chamber into existence.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Croc]

This atheist has morals, but is not necessarily tied to an inscribed set of moral values as defined by a centralized "morality police" governing body.

This atheist was also not offended in the least by KC's post, and thinks that anyone who was needs to stop taking themselves so damn seriously.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

This atheist was also not offended in the least by KC's post, and thinks that anyone who was needs to stop taking themselves so damn seriously.

No Croc! Because i have a RIGHT to not be offended! Thats why the government should regulate speech.

[Camino LS6]

Easy boys, make sure this stays civil...

[Oracle of Delphi]

[Croc]

No Croc! Because i have a RIGHT to not be offended! Thats why the government should regulate speech.

Yes, and you also have a right to be offended, and being America, you have the choice to exercise either one of your rights at whim. I don't know why you seemingly inserted a non-sequitor about government regulating speech--the 1st Amendment is pretty well-worn legal territory, so I don't know why you're bringing it up as if it were up for debate...?

Edited April 8, 2009 by Croc

[K.C.]

A friend of mine wrote this and sent it to me. I thought it was funny, asked his permission to share it. It was granted, so I am posting it.

10 Reasons why Gay Marriage is WRONG! <written by my buddy SD>

1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans

Ok, so I'm at idiot for taking my buddy at face value when he was joking with me. He found this and told me he wrote it. I'd not seen it before so took him at his word. I sit here at my computer corrected for saying that he wrote it, when he did not. I apologize for any confusion. And when I say I apologize, that is directed to all races, creeds, religious/non religious beliefs, ethnicities, genders, orientations, species, phylum, etc etc.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Yes, and you also have a right to be offended, and being America, you have the choice to exercise either one of your rights at whim. I don't know why you seemingly inserted a non-sequitor about government regulating speech--the 1st Amendment is pretty well-worn legal territory, so I don't know why you're bringing it up as if it were up for debate...?

Cause i felt i was being blatantly sarcastic.

What from me would even lead you to believe i would support more government regulation?

Well i apologize for sounding like a jerk then.

But i have heard people bring up their "right" to not be offended before.

[Croc]

Cause i felt i was being blatantly sarcastic.

What from me would even lead you to believe i would support more government regulation?

Well i apologize for sounding like a jerk then.

But i have heard people bring up their "right" to not be offended before.

Haha no, I'm well aware you are against any government regulation what-so-ever (or so it seems)...I thought the implication was that you felt like the government was attempting in some way to regulate speech. I guess I overthought it, or something...

No worries.

[ocnblu]

KC, there's a kid on YouTube listing off all those reasons. I have no way of knowing if he originated it.

[Drew Dowdell]

as long as "gay propaganda" isn't pushed on children of parents that don't want their children exposed to such things in state institutions aka, taking parenting rights away from them. i have little problem with allowing such things going on...

the problem i still have is it being called a marriage. usually marriage in the wider use of the word is used for 2 different things being joined, like chemistry.

What is "gay propaganda"?

[Drew Dowdell]

seen before... hehe. but it just plays on pop culture stereotypes, it's funny, but doesn't address why some people have legit reasons why they oppose it.

Please list the "legit" reasons to oppose it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Were 'it' natural, this so-called debate would not exist.

Try legislating a tree into existence.

"It" is natural. "It" occurs in many species. "It" occurs in every society in every time.

[longtooth]

"It" is natural. "It" occurs in many species. "It" occurs in every society in every time.

Seriously, which species, 'boi?

[Croc]

Seriously, which species, 'boi?

You have Google, don't you?

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Seriously, which species, 'boi?

I know its fairly frequent amongst monkeys and dolphins.

This argument more or less gets back to morals and ethics.

In some states it is illegal to marry your first cousin, however genetically there is no problems unless this practice occurs constantly generation after generation. This is based off of a generally accepted moral. There is no real difference between this and gay marriage if you really think about it.

However, regardless of your stance, this is not the place of the government to tell people how to run their personal lives.

[Drew Dowdell]

Seriously, which species, 'boi?

Amazon Dolphin - The Amazon River dolphin or boto has been reported to form up in bands of 3-5 individuals enjoying group sex. The groups usually comprise young males and sometimes one or two females.

American Bison - Courtship, mounting, and full anal penetration between bulls has been noted to occur among American Bison

Penguins - In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City were partnered and even successfully hatched a female chick from an egg.

Elephants - Males, who in elephants live apart from the general flock, often form "companionships", consisting of an older individual and one or sometimes two younger, attendant males with sexual behaviour being an important part of the social dynamic. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 45% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.

Giraffes - Male giraffes have been observed to engage in remarkably high frequencies of homosexual behavior. After aggressive "necking", it is common for two males giraffes to caress and court each other, leading up to mounting and climax. Such interactions between males have been found to be more frequent than heterosexual coupling.

Bonobo - A matriarchal society (unusual amongst apes), Bonobos are a fully bisexual species -- both males and females engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior, being noted for lesbianism in particular. About 60% of all sexual activity in this species is between two or more females. While the homosexual bonding system in Bonobos represent the highest frequency of homosexuality known in any species, homosexuality has been reported for all great apes (a group which includes humans), as well as a number of other primate species.

Do I need to continue?

[longtooth]

Amazon Dolphin - The Amazon River dolphin or boto has been reported to form up in bands of 3-5 individuals enjoying group sex. The groups usually comprise young males and sometimes one or two females.

American Bison - Courtship, mounting, and full anal penetration between bulls has been noted to occur among American Bison

Penguins - In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City were partnered and even successfully hatched a female chick from an egg.

Elephants - Males, who in elephants live apart from the general flock, often form "companionships", consisting of an older individual and one or sometimes two younger, attendant males with sexual behaviour being an important part of the social dynamic. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 45% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.

Giraffes - Male giraffes have been observed to engage in remarkably high frequencies of homosexual behavior. After aggressive "necking", it is common for two males giraffes to caress and court each other, leading up to mounting and climax. Such interactions between males have been found to be more frequent than heterosexual coupling.

Bonobo - A matriarchal society (unusual amongst apes), Bonobos are a fully bisexual species -- both males and females engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior, being noted for lesbianism in particular. About 60% of all sexual activity in this species is between two or more females. While the homosexual bonding system in Bonobos represent the highest frequency of homosexuality known in any species, homosexuality has been reported for all great apes (a group which includes humans), as well as a number of other primate species.

Do I need to continue?

Seems animals are as confused as people.

Even bulls are pickle kissing sh*t dicks? I'll never look at my steak the same way 'boi.

So, how 'bout that tree?

[Satty]

Homophobia is gay

[Justin Bimmer]

I get frustrated because it seems more and more the general populace has little-to-no problem with gay people. Most of my friends, co-workers, family, and peers are straight....and not a single friggin' one of them has even the slightest problem with it.

It seems the vast minority, religious hacks, or ultra-conservative types are bringing a level of attention to this matter that it simply doesn't deserve.

There are times when I wish I WAS an activist.....wish that I could just get out there, stand up in their faces, and really let them know how I feel about their ignorance......but that's not really in my personality.....

I just get pissed when someone says that they don't want to allow ME to get married.....because THEIR religious beliefs are against it.....

This problem that the vast minority you speak of creates is not just about marriage, it is also about abortion, guns, racism, you name it. Any non-important issue they can use to rile up the rabblerousers they jump at that opportunity.

If this does get moved to politics, so what? It's only TWELVE dollars guys.

[Drew Dowdell]

Seems animals are as confused as people.

Even bulls are pickle kissing sh*t dicks? I'll never look at my steak the same way 'boi.

So, how 'bout that tree?

The gay marriage fight isn't about legislating something that doesn't exist into existence. It's about recognizing that something already exists and the laws don't fairly address that something. It is not in society's best interest to prevent the stabilizing factor that comes with marriage and banning gay marriage won't end gayness or gay couples being together. All it does is prevent the legal protections that marriage provides. It's almost spiteful.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are against gay marriage are just worried we'll be better at it than them....

I'm going to be with Albert with or without gay marriage. What do "the haters" care if he gets to inherit my house tax free in the sad event I'm run down by a Pruis?

[Intrepidation]

Homophobia is ghey

Fixed.

[Satty]

Fixed.

You had me at hello.

[K.C.]

Homophobia is gay

I love this response! lol

[§carlet §wordfish]

I should post an anit-gay marriage pamphlet I saw at my church once.

Basically it boils down to, the only real argument against gay marriage is based on what's in the Bible, assuming that everything in the Bible is 100% true.

As for why not just live and let live, that's a whole different topic dealing with the history of the Constitution and the founding fathers and all sorts o' mean and nasty things.