March 2009 Sales: General Motors

[Satty]

I heard the Queen of England is going to start using a G3 as her primary vehicle.

[Intrepidation]

She knows EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! when she sees it. :wink:

[Oracle of Delphi]

I heard the Queen of England is going to start using a G3 as her primary vehicle.

Which Queen? Charles or Elizabeth?

[Satty]

The one that looks like a horse.

[Intrepidation]

That doesn't narrow it down.

ZING!

[gm4life]

This will really throw you off but I have ridden in a new Aveo5 and really liked it. In fact if I can get one under 10,000 new with a 5spd. a/c and cruise that might be my newest addition to my fleet, or a G3. I have some GM card money (not as much as I want, a few large items could change that) and the sales tax can be written off. For the size of the car I was very impressed with plus I could get a STICK again. Get my son or I ready for that new Camaro SS! It would be a chance to help GM out again...

Edited April 5, 2009 by gm4life

[Satty]

There are so many less stupid ways to spend $10,000.

[Intrepidation]

Like flushing it down the toilet, lining a little box, using it to wipe your ass, putting it in a bag, setting it on fire, and throwing it at someone.

[Drew Dowdell]

The fleet numbers on Pontiac probably aren't any prettier than they were a a few months ago. Lets go with the low number and say 30% of Pontiac's sales are fleet.

So of Pontiac's 17k (and change) sales, 5100 were sales that weren't to people who preferred the styling, or the name on the trunk, or necessarily thought the car was good. Those sales were strictly because GM was the lowest bidder.

Read it another way.

12,000 Pontiacs were sold because people preferred the styling, name, whatever over what many on this board consider to be superior cars. Every retail Pontiac G6 sale happens when someone prefers the G6 over the Malibu, Aura, Accord, Altima, Camry, Sonata, or Galant.

[CaddyXLR-V]

What does Pontiac represent? Bland, jellybean rental cars? Because thats what makes up the "volume" you guys are jacking off over.

Even though the G8 alone most likely sold more cars to retail customers than Buick sold cars to retail customers?

Maybe that's what Pontiac represents to you, but to me it represents cars like the GTO like I own, and the G8 and Solstice. That it can sell in better volumes than every other GM brand besides GMC and Chevy shows it deserves a chance to succeed like every other brand has been given.

Why are you even on a GM website if you don't like bland jellybean rental cars? I'm pretty sure that's what 95% of all GM cars have been for the past 20 years. So why would you single out Pontiac when Buick, Chevy, and Saturn have been mostly the same?

[Intrepidation]

GM's Biggest Fan and Toughest Critics.

[CaddyXLR-V]

GM's Biggest Fan and Pontiac's Toughest Critics.

Fixed. Seems more accurate now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's okay to be scared, guys You're probably the same type that stares at me in awe or ridicules me when I walk through the door in a public place. Because I make you uncomfortable... I'm different and that scares you. It's the same reason people discriminate or refuse to be fearless in a city at night.

I understand that we don't all have the same taste in cars. (And that's one reason Pontiac... The SOUL of what Pontiac was and is appeals to me so much... Because it DOESN'T appeal to you.)

That said, I'm not going to trash a thread because of that insecurity.

Edited April 6, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

A few of GM's remaining fans and a few people that need to get a hobby/life.

*Fixed

[Camino LS6]

There are much more worthy targets within GM than Pontiac.

That's why the bashing by certain members ticks me off - and why it makes little sense.

[Camino LS6]

No one seems to want to face the fact that Pontiac is a far stronger brand than Buick, Saab, Saturn, (and in some ways Cadillac).

Shooting at Pontiac means you've picked the wrong target.

It's just common sense.

The G8 and Solstice point the way forward for Pontiac, not the G3,5,6, Vibe.

Anyone notice that the G8 tripled its sales this month vs. last year?

That's a fine performance under normal conditions, let alone in the biggest economic downturn in decades.

Pontiac is in a perfect position to build a viable, vibrant, niche brand with high margins - give it the product and you'll be there.

Wrapped within a BPG structure, this is the best way to go.

Might help if Buick were a bit more appealing and aimed at garnering the volume that Pontiac is currently capable of. Otherwise, Buick is just baggage in North America.

Buick needs Pontiac, and they both need GMC. Without this combination, the only sensible move is to kill them all at once.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The plan is to introduce Buick vehicles as they phase out Pontiac vehicles according to Laneve.

I certainly hope they succeed, but I fear that selling a Buick to a Pontiac buyer, much less an upgrading Nissan or Honda buyer, will be impossible.

Buick is weak all around, unless GM can exploit it's badge prestige (old school luxury and excellent reliability) And this is partially GMs OWN fault for reducing the brand to a niche circa 2005-06. I think the Opel to Buick transition is a natural to us, because we KNOW what the brands both represent and can draw parallels. But to the average consumer (the one who matters) GM is going to need one HELLUVA advertising budget to convey the message. And I don't think they can/will pull it off. GM, and the rest of Detroit needs to understand that you can't just "build good cars" and expect people to come drive them... This isn't the 70s anymore and the big three don't have the luxury of being the default choice. I've been saying that this is the very fight for their lives (Detroit) for 4 years now and that they should be of an eye-for-an-eye, seek and destroy mentality... But hey, what do I know?

Pontiac is weak on image... And that's why it, IMO, would be easier to fix than Buick. (Not that I want Buick to go away) It already sells in numbers and with the right Opel/Holden products and LESS marketing than the Buick fix, Pontiac could be an iron horse of strength again.

GMC is what keeps the channel alive and everyone knows it... But with the renewed media focus on trucks = bad and GMC = clones, they are/will be the next target for termination. We're already starting to see that in the countless editorials that call for the demise of the brand (despite it being PURE profit and GM's second best seller) The lukewarm reaction to the Terrain (the media will try to kill this hot product in a very hot segment -- not through downright degradation, because the product is too strong for that, but through begrudging "why does it exist" and "I guess it's... Okay..." or "buy the same thing cheaper at Chevy" commentary) and the constant Terrain = Equinox/GMC = Chevy drumbeat of the media as is. Not to count, Obama supporters don't like trucks, remember? mark my words, GMC will be the new whipping boy now that Pontiac has been 'dealt with' and Buick is so weak that it's doomed.

But hey, what do I know?

Edited April 6, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Camino LS6]

Here's another thought:

What better way to judge a brand's staying power than to look at how it does in the middle of a "perfect storm" such as the present day?

In the game of weathering this storm, Pontiac is proving to be GM's most resilient brand.

Interesting, no?

Pontiac's lost business is on a near exact par with Toyota's, a better performance than any other GM brand.

Just think about that for a while.

[Camino LS6]

The plan is to introduce Buick vehicles as they phase out Pontiac vehicles according to Laneve.

This is the most moronic approach possible.

There would be a shred of a chance that Pontiac and GMC could be viable without Buick, but zero chance that Buick and GMC can survive without Pontiac.

[Intrepidation]

It's okay to be scared, guys You're probably the same type that stares at me in awe or ridicules me when I walk through the door in a public place. Because I make you uncomfortable... I'm different and that scares you. It's the same reason people discriminate or refuse to be fearless in a city at night.

I understand that we don't all have the same taste in cars. (And that's one reason Pontiac... The SOUL of what Pontiac was and is appeals to me so much... Because it DOESN'T appeal to you.)

That said, I'm not going to trash a thread because of that insecurity.

[enzl]

No one seems to want to face the fact that Pontiac is a far stronger brand than Buick, Saab, Saturn, (and in some ways Cadillac).

Shooting at Pontiac means you've picked the wrong target.

It's just common sense.

The G8 and Solstice point the way forward for Pontiac, not the G3,5,6, Vibe.

Anyone notice that the G8 tripled its sales this month vs. last year?

That's a fine performance under normal conditions, let alone in the biggest economic downturn in decades.

Pontiac is in a perfect position to build a viable, vibrant, niche brand with high margins - give it the product and you'll be there.

Wrapped within a BPG structure, this is the best way to go.

Might help if Buick were a bit more appealing and aimed at garnering the volume that Pontiac is currently capable of. Otherwise, Buick is just baggage in North America.

Buick needs Pontiac, and they both need GMC. Without this combination, the only sensible move is to kill them all at once.

Agreed.

I think the problem is that GM has so many issues to address that there's a tendency to lump these problems together.

In this example: Bad Pontiac must go--as you've outlined, the G3, G5 & Vibe simply don't match a bad-boy performance niche that Pontiac should occupy. (and none of those products offer anything that can't be found in another GM showroom)

The Good Pontiac of the Solstice or G8 (or the ST and Firebird, which should be here) could thrive --not in volume, but in profitability--if Buick had a reasonable sell rate for their bread and butter sedans or GMC had lots of crossovers to compliment their Truck line.

Thus, Pontiac itself isn't the problem, its having the proper complimentary pieces in place to sustain all 3 'divisions' as 1 full line of product.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get to find out how to fix it--I suspect that the split of GM into Chap 7/Chap 11 pieces will take place in two months, leaving Chevy/Caddy as the remaining GM divisions.

[Camino LS6]

Agreed.

I think the problem is that GM has so many issues to address that there's a tendency to lump these problems together.

In this example: Bad Pontiac must go--as you've outlined, the G3, G5 & Vibe simply don't match a bad-boy performance niche that Pontiac should occupy. (and none of those products offer anything that can't be found in another GM showroom)

The Good Pontiac of the Solstice or G8 (or the ST and Firebird, which should be here) could thrive --not in volume, but in profitability--if Buick had a reasonable sell rate for their bread and butter sedans or GMC had lots of crossovers to compliment their Truck line.

Thus, Pontiac itself isn't the problem, its having the proper complimentary pieces in place to sustain all 3 'divisions' as 1 full line of product.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get to find out how to fix it--I suspect that the split of GM into Chap 7/Chap 11 pieces will take place in two months, leaving Chevy/Caddy as the remaining GM divisions.

I agree with you from end to end of this post.

Too bad really, when the solution is so obvious.

I still harbour a small scrap of hope, but that's all.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Just think if Pontiac were only the Solstice, G8, and maybe a coupe based of Zeta and/or the ST. How long would Pontiac's image take to turn around? My guess would be 3-5 years max. Perfect time to add Alpha to the mix. Once their image is where is should be, these cars will sell at full sticker price.

[enzl]

I agree with you from end to end of this post.

Too bad really, when the solution is so obvious.

I still harbour a small scrap of hope, but that's all.

Your hope may be justified, we'll see...unfortunately, our neighboring P-B-GMC just shut down recently. It's really depressing to see 1/3 of your campus shuttered.

[gm4life]

Even though the G8 alone most likely sold more cars to retail customers than Buick sold cars to retail customers?

Maybe that's what Pontiac represents to you, but to me it represents cars like the GTO like I own, and the G8 and Solstice. That it can sell in better volumes than every other GM brand besides GMC and Chevy shows it deserves a chance to succeed like every other brand has been given.

Why are you even on a GM website if you don't like bland jellybean rental cars? I'm pretty sure that's what 95% of all GM cars have been for the past 20 years. So why would you single out Pontiac when Buick, Chevy, and Saturn have been mostly the same?

I say Amen to that.

[gm4life]

No one seems to want to face the fact that Pontiac is a far stronger brand than Buick, Saab, Saturn, (and in some ways Cadillac).

Shooting at Pontiac means you've picked the wrong target.

It's just common sense.

The G8 and Solstice point the way forward for Pontiac, not the G3,5,6, Vibe.

Anyone notice that the G8 tripled its sales this month vs. last year?

That's a fine performance under normal conditions, let alone in the biggest economic downturn in decades.

Pontiac is in a perfect position to build a viable, vibrant, niche brand with high margins - give it the product and you'll be there.

Wrapped within a BPG structure, this is the best way to go.

Might help if Buick were a bit more appealing and aimed at garnering the volume that Pontiac is currently capable of. Otherwise, Buick is just baggage in North America.

Buick needs Pontiac, and they both need GMC. Without this combination, the only sensible move is to kill them all at once.

Thanks Camino you make way to much sense to belong around here tho!

[gm4life]

Fixed. Seems more accurate now.

[gm4life]

Read it another way.

12,000 Pontiacs were sold because people preferred the styling, name, whatever over what many on this board consider to be superior cars. Every retail Pontiac G6 sale happens when someone prefers the G6 over the Malibu, Aura, Accord, Altima, Camry, Sonata, or Galant.

Exactly.

[gm4life]

Like flushing it down the toilet, lining a little box, using it to wipe your ass, putting it in a bag, setting it on fire, and throwing it at someone.

It might be my last chance to help GM out by getting a new car from for a while.

[Daryl Z71]

It might be my last chance to help GM out by getting a new car from for a while.

Been there done that. :AH-HA_wink: