Another one of those "GM will be dead in 30 years"

[Nick]

I read an interesting column on autointernationaal.nl (go to: http://www.autointernationaal....&n=11)

As the column in in Dutch, I'll translate the most interesting paragraphs:

What have the Corvette and the Mini in common? On first eye, nothing. The first is big, gas guzzling and based on dated hardware. The latter is small, smart and caused a technological revolution. Yet I thought about Mini, when I read that the Corvette no longer would be sold under the Chevrolet brand (in Europe!), but as een make of its own within GM. British Leyland ("BL") made the same decision in the early seventies as regards the Mini. This cute, tiny car would longer be sold as an Austin or a Morris (BL's hign-volume makes, or the BL equivalents of Chevrolet), but instead become an independent marque.

Nowadays - thirty years later - BL does not exist anymore (apart from the very marginal part MG Rover is playing). The company went down due to strikes, debts and wrong models. These factors compare fearfully to those applicable to GM. GM is paying fortunes with respect to pensions and healthcare costs of employees and former employees. They also seem subscribed to the introduction of wrong models. Chevrolet Malibu and SSR, Saturn Ion, Opel Vectra/Signum: all models falling far below forecasted sales numbers. Even the world's largest auto maker can't afford so many mistakes. Sooner or later, things must go terribly wrong at GM.

Maybe it's hard to imagine, but BM's bankruptcy may not be imaginary. When established, BL was Britain's largest auto maker; just as GM is America's. Yet, BL's bubble burst. (...)

GM's demise will proceed step by step. The Oldsmobile make has been killed, just like its British equivalent Wolseley (from a historic and market positioning perspective). The next phase will be the recycling of old technology, as BL did with the Austin Allegro and the Princess. Opel has been successful with the current Astra, but they may not when Ford and VW introduce their next, further imporved Focus and Golf models. When the water raises to the lips, all crown jewels will be sold off like Jaguar was split off from BL and sold in the early eighties. Currently, Cadillac is GM's pride, as was Jaguar BL's. But Jaguar teaches us a lesson that a premium brand can't save a whole auto conglomerate.

So, it's not imaginary that GM will no longer be among us within twenty or thirty years. Out of the wreckage, competitiors will pick the valuable parts, just like BMW picked Mini. If, for argument's sake, the scenario becomes reality, wouldn't the auto makers of the 2030's be interested in Corvette? I think so. They will, as done to the Mini, equip this icon with a state-of-the-art platform and V8 engine, while continuing the styling cues and design of America's only sports car. (...)

To me, this scenario doesn't sound unrealistic, but would like to know your thoughts.

You just gotta love the hits made against the vette..."gas guzzler on dated hardware"...then the later comment, "america's only sports car"...apparetly someone didn't get the memo :rolleyes: Edited November 13, 2005 by Nick

[tmp]

They forget one thing- one of the big reasons that the British car manufacturers went belly up is that they could not manage to make cars that could actually make ot down your driveway without breaking. They made American cars of the era look like paragons of reliability and quality control

[Variance]

I, for one, wouldn't presume to know the fate of GM in 20-30 years. Who knows what they'll have in terms of product, leadership, etc. then?

[daves87rs]

Very interesting..I will say that.... :unsure:

[HarleyEarl]

Just the most ill-informed, non-factual piece of crap I have ever read....a mere amateur. This is not unusual...have you ever read some of the Euro auto rags?......amazing how stupid some of the so-called auto journalists are. They haven't a clue about North American cars or our marketplace and don't really want to know. They still look at us as the colonies. Eurotrash!

[Flybrian]

Yeah...no.

[mightymouse]

Errrr! That article is the literary equivalent of an enema, to get the other "we hate all American cars " articles flowing... no doubt Nick more girls please :) Edited November 13, 2005 by mightymouse

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Well, someone has their head way up their ass, and I mean way up there. That had to be the most stupid, ignorant piece of crap I have read in awhile. "[The Corvette is] America's only sports car"? Well, screw me cross-eyed here guys, but what in the hell is a Dodge Viper? Or the Ford GT? Mustang? And, although it's dead, Camaro for that matter? Hell, what's a Firebird then?

That "article" seemed more like a hit on America written by terrorists than someone just wanting to rag on GM.

Just a friendly reminder to people who want to write stuff like that piece of crap in the first post: Never drink the bong water. Edited November 13, 2005 by anorexorcist

[MatizNiels]

Just the most ill-informed, non-factual piece of crap I have ever read....a mere amateur.  This is not unusual...have you ever read some of the Euro auto rags?......amazing how stupid some of the so-called auto journalists are.  They haven't a clue about North American cars or our marketplace and don't really want to know.  They still look at us as the colonies.  Eurotrash!

[post="42348"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yep. Plenty, bu I haven't met any of that kind of articles you mention. Can you please come with examples. You are after all calling a whole lot of people idiots.

[razoredge]

While he said some stupid stuff about the Vette, its no different from the crap we have had to endure around here in regards to many many topics.

Not much unlike this recent remark " the big reasons that the British car manufacturers went belly up is that they could not manage to make cars that could actually make ot down your driveway without breaking." spoken with experience and higher ed no doubt ! :rolleyes:

Anyhow - In regards to GM or any actual American or N. American built automobile I believe he was being optimistic at 30 years. Though he was more speaking from the European presence of GM and British Leyland.

England was a small country for all those car builders that were always tetering on success anyhow. They went through so many changes, BMC, British Leyland, Aston Martin had ? 5 owners ? and never turned a profit. What about all the Italian buiilders ? what about the French builders that never returned from WWII ? Same for many American builders.

We are apparently living in a "global economy" and these higher standard countries manufactureing industries can not exist in this "global economy" unless you all are in favor of bringing back slavery, which apparently is a idea many apply too, using a less offensive terminology and approach to how we quarter and care for our slaves? :o

GM ? 30 years from now ?

Not so long as the current trade and economic policies are in effect within this country.......... or the rice eaters miraculously begin to be paid for more than their next bowl of rice.

:CG_all: :metal:

[haypops]

Exactly what is so new tech about the mini, and so old tech about the corvette?

[tmp]

Not much unlike this recent remark "  the big reasons that the British car manufacturers went belly up is that they could not manage to make cars that could actually make ot down your driveway without breaking." spoken with experience and higher ed no doubt !  :rolleyes:

Uhh, actually written, not spoken. Written by someone who grew up in the 70's had the experience of owning an MG. Written by someone who grew up with Triumphs, Jaguars and Land Rovers. Written by someone who was there to see exactly how utterly unreliable British cars were, even compared to the supposedly horrible American cars of the time.

I'll put my higher edumacation up against yours any time, buddy. Edited November 14, 2005 by tmp

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM ? 30 years from now ?

Not so long as the current trade and economic policies are in effect within this country.......... or the rice eaters miraculously begin to be paid for more than their next bowl of rice.

As always.... BEAUTIFUL!

I give GM 5 to 10 years MAX if things don't start changing and that's being VERY optimistic.

Hell, I'm going to hate to see what America looks like in 30 years. Much less GM.

[razoredge]

Uhh, actually written, not spoken.  Written by someone who grew up in the 70's had the experience of owning an MG.  Written by someone who grew up with Triumphs, Jaguars and Land Rovers.  Written by someone who was there to see exactly how utterly unreliable British cars were, even compared to the supposedly horrible American cars of the time.

I'll put my higher edumacation up against yours any time, buddy.

[post="42701"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh sorry :rolleyes: I grew up in the 60's & 70's and my first car was a 64 Sunbeam Alpine. Very reliable and fun for 1.5 years when I parked it due to new job requireing pickup and many other mechanical liabilities. After sitting for 15 years outside on blocks the undercarraige still went to far gone. I then knew it was time to sell off the car and my stock pile of parts. However before I did that I freed up the brakes, cleaned and lubed the Strombergs, an new gas line and alternate "tank", turned the key and it was running just as radically as it ever did. All wipers, fans, lights, everything worked. I took it for an illegal spin or two, enough to put one final memory implant in my mind before the buyer came and picked up everything I had.

My other first car was a 68 Impala with 90,000 miles that was the biggest POS I ever owned for all three weeks I owned it. I had a 64 Ford F100 that was an incredible POS as well. Somewhere in there I had a 73 Datsun PU that was another incredible POS.......are we seeing a pattern here ?

For the past 23 years, excluding a 4 year recess I have earned my living and supported my family off my back but more importantly off the back of an English Fordson/County Super Six built in 1964, it has been the most reliable piece of iron I have ever operated. Had I not purchased this machine I would have never succeded in a business that broke more men than it made. Whether that is a good thing or not is up in the air in light of "todays new world" however it did work well for nearly 20 years.

So I have no allergies to British iron.

I also am not easily impressed with the school educated

Buddy ! B)

[CARBIZ]

We have to understand that the North American market is very different than the rest of the world. We have enjoyed gasoline that is half the price of everyone else for the past 50 years, plus Europe was nearly bombed into the Dark Ages 55 years ago and parts of it never recovered. So, forgive them their different point of view. They are more densely populated than America, and they have 1,500 years experience of wanting to erradicate each other, so their perspectives about nearly everything is different. Although I get a kick out of watching European auto shows on TV where they test drive all these lame ass tin cans, some of these vehicles will be sold here in a few years. With gasoline prices only set to rise, we may be learning from them soon enough.

[tmp]

Uh, I don't have allergies to British Iron. I think that they had built some of the most beautiful pieces of automotive art ever to grace the roads of any country. They were, however, notoriously fiddly and had to be maintained in ways that the American market would not put up with. I''m glad you have two cars that did you well. I'm sorry that you had two cars that didn't. I stand by my recollection of the history of British car reliability, though. Buddy. B)

[thegriffon]

what about the French builders that never returned from WWII?

[post="42629"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They returned from WWII, but didn't survive the socialist government's policies of economic levelling. Some were nationaliszd and forced out of the luxury car business, the rest were driven out of business by punitive sales taxes on larger cars. In Germany by contrast, all the surviving car companies had state support. Those that didn't faced difficulties in raising capital to finance development. Much of the UK and French car industry was acquired by Chrysler and eventually sold to Peugeot. SIMCA (previously Ford SA) and Panhard were also acquired by Peugeot. Specialising like Alvis in armored vehicles Panhard was recently put up for sale. Peugeot was still selling models badged as Talbots in some markets a little more than 10 years ago, and still renews some of the old trademarks.

GM is less a victim of globalisation as it is of legacy costs, the jobs bank and ballooning healthcare. If Toyota, Nissan and Honda hadn't enetered the market and set up plants in the US, then other companies would have replaced Studebaker and American Motors. Most people change employers several times even if they don't get laid off. It's timepeople found new work. Plenty of new suppliers have opened shop in MI, and they could always have moved south, escaped the midwest winters and started work for Nissan or Honda or Toyota. People like working there so much they don't want to join the UAW. Maybe the CAW needs to start recruiting stateside.