Driven: The 70-MPG 2010 Toyota Prius

[Satty]

The Prius has a mega-warranty on all the really expensive stuff, so the really deep pockets wont be a factor for a long time.

They're here, they're going to be here for a long, long time, get used to it. Quit being so sore that GM missed the boat.

[Camino LS6]

The Prius has a mega-warranty on all the really expensive stuff, so the really deep pockets wont be a factor for a long time.

They're here, they're going to be here for a long, long time, get used to it. Quit being so sore that GM missed the boat.

I would hate that thing if GM built it, it's nasty.

[cletus8269]

there are quite a few of them around here too. in fact i think there are around 17-20 on the toyota lot right now hehe. all kidding aside there is a CT tech here that drives one and there are several spattered across the parking lot. in fact when i was still at office depot the technology saleperson there had one of the first gen priui(?) it was plum goofy lookin at first but his other ride was a mid 90's tercel so he didnt seem to care. i remember the most poinant thing about his purchase was the tax break he got for it. his wife works for the IRS.

[ocnblu]

A person has to be special to drive one.

[Robert Hall]

there are quite a few of them around here too. in fact i think there are around 17-20 on the toyota lot right now hehe. all kidding aside there is a CT tech here that drives one and there are several spattered across the parking lot. in fact when i was still at office depot the technology saleperson there had one of the first gen priui(?) it was plum goofy lookin at first but his other ride was a mid 90's tercel so he didnt seem to care. i remember the most poinant thing about his purchase was the tax break he got for it. his wife works for the IRS.

The first person I knew that bought a Prius was back in 2000, my friend and the CTO of an ill-fated startup we worked at, bought it because it was the most high tech and geeky (his words) car he could find. He's still got it, along with a 2nd gen model and an RX hybrid for the family now.

I remember driving his a few times and thinking how spooky it was to roll up to a light, hear no sound, then pull away.

[Camino LS6]

Whenever I roll up behind one in the Silverado or the wagon, I am so tempted to go Mad Max.

[turbo200]

Prius is the new Camry in many ways, and that works just fine for toyo's legacy. it's pretty silly that many here can't appreciate and admit to the improvements here. the mileage figures are unbeatable, and here I am yet again, asking the same question, where is the GM competition to this mainstream car being bought up by plenty of retail customers. they can figure out how to make a great malibu and camaro, but chevy's lineup elsewhere is no comparison to giant evil successful japanese toyota.

this car is impressive in person. it's dyanmic and the rearward motion that flows into the taillights connecting the roofline to the shoulder line is really well conceived. along with that the new front end is more toyota familiar and less upscale than i'd like it to be, but it's attractive, a lot moreso than before, and has a lot of good character to it. the side profile is so much better than before, surfacing is significantly improved, character lines give the design balance and a sporty character. really, unless someone is ardently biased, I can't see how anyone couldn't admit this design is significantly improved. though i have seen the insight at an auto show, i glanced it carelessly because it really wasn't all that impressive, don't think that will help it much, even in the less design-centric hybrid shopping field.

the interior in toyota's has been a source of undue criticism here. these interiors work really well in person and are a marked departure from what we're all used to. i prefer progress as opposed to companies that just recycle the same ideas from before, and in GM's case, poorly. these new interiors are really arty and interesting, high quality as well.

lastly, the prius is here. that's more than can be said of volt, which as with everything GM, is a work in progress. just have faith, just believe it's coming. with the camaro that worked well, but they had to hit a price point. i think the volt will be worth the wait, but the wait is so damn endless.

[ocnblu]

It's so easy to pick on a Prius. The car just begs for it. It's like the little skinny nerd with his toughskins jeans up under his armpits, a plaid shirt, pasty white skin and dorky glasses.

[Satty]

A person has to be special to drive one.

I didn't realize that being 16 years of age and able to pass both a written test and a driving test made a person special.

Driving a CVT still feels weird, even after doing it daily for over a month.

[ocnblu]

I meant special in a non-complimentary way.

[turbo200]

The first person I knew that bought a Prius was back in 2000, my friend and the CTO of an ill-fated startup we worked at, bought it because it was the most high tech and geeky (his words) car he could find. He's still got it, along with a 2nd gen model and an RX hybrid for the family now.

I remember driving his a few times and thinking how spooky it was to roll up to a light, hear no sound, then pull away.

driving a hybrid and owning one, it really does feel more technical and advanced than normal cars. those gadgets, the interior displays, and now huge mileage really all contribute to a new age, cyber feel. the kinks that need to be worked out are the less than normal driving experience issues, like brick-like brakes that offer no feel whatsoever [purported to be improved in this new car]. the other thing that needs to happen is hybrid systems/efficient electric machines need to eventually take on more universally appealing shapes/designs.

[Robert Hall]

driving a hybrid and owning one, it really does feel more technical and advanced than normal cars. those gadgets, the interior displays, and now huge mileage really all contribute to a new age, cyber feel. the kinks that need to be worked out are the less than normal driving experience issues, like brick-like brakes that offer no feel whatsoever [purported to be improved in this new car]. the other thing that needs to happen is hybrid systems/efficient electric machines need to eventually take on more universally appealing shapes/designs.

Yes, there is a lot going for the Prius..I can't see myself in one, but they are very appealing from a technical perspective, very modern rather than the same old, same old. Plus, it's real, been around for nearly a decade in the US now, a lot more than unfortunately GM's Volt, which is just vaporware at this point.. if GM had been innovative and introduced something like this in '99, recent history for GM could have been quite different...and the GM fanboys would have been eating it up.

Edited March 27, 2009 by moltar

[ocnblu]

It is the utmost in appliance = car. It is totally without any emotional appeal. What. So. Ever.

[Camino LS6]

Yes, there is a lot going for the Prius..I can't see myself in one, but they are very appealing from a technical perspective, very modern rather than the same old, same old. Plus, it's real, been around for nearly a decade in the US now, a lot more than unfortunately GM's Volt, which is just vaporware at this point..

No.

Wrong.

Not vaporware.

Running and driving Volts are on the streets right now.

One you can buy isn't far off at this point, and it trumps the homely Prius in all categories.

[Robert Hall]

It is the utmost in appliance = car. It is totally without any emotional appeal. What. So. Ever.

I can say the same thing about the Cobalt, it's near the bottom of GM's range, only the Aveo is lower in appeal.

[Robert Hall]

No.

Wrong.

Not vaporware.

Running and driving Volts are on the streets right now.

One you can buy isn't far off at this point, and it trumps the homely Prius in all categories.

Riiiight..I'll believe the Volt is for real when it's in the dealers..

[Intrepidation]

Tesla S > Any of these.

[ocnblu]

The Cobalt comes in many flavors, from mild to wild. The Prius is boring. Dead flat boring, and on top of that, goofy.

[turbo200]

It is the utmost in appliance = car. It is totally without any emotional appeal. What. So. Ever.

what's your definition of the cobalt then?

[Camino LS6]

what's your definition of the cobalt then?

Did you miss the Cobalt SS's performance at the Ring?

[Satty]

The Prius Touring is a more comfortable, luxurious ride than anything GM sells for under $37K.

[turbo200]

Riiiight..I'll believe the Volt is for real when it's in the dealers..

all GM has going for it is the hype it can build by pushing dollars into marketing. dollars that could have been used more wisely if even six years ago when prius was on its way to being a big success and was already a good PR venture for toyota, they had reacted. oh but don't blame GM, they're just doing thier usual business and being heavily and latently and lethargically reactive, which is what got us to this situation where GM is being supported by the taxpayers. you know the situation in which they have no cash thanks to profoundly stupid business practices, like oh not building cars that were competitive and that the market was reacting to in the first place.

[balthazar]

So if the Volt is 'too little, too late', and 'missed the PR train', isn't the next attempt insight just as pointless (or more so with the derivative prius styling & the baggage of the sales-failure 1st gen) ??

Can no 2nd-vehicle (unique body hybrid) in a segment expect to succeed, ever?

audi brings out a hulking SUV like 50 years after it's segment growth trend.... nary a whisper about 'too little, too late' there.

Can't get away from it with GM, tho.

[ocnblu]

My definition of a Cobalt: easy to own, easy to buy and insure. Easy to modify. Easy to service. American. Not dorky. Conventional. Pleasant looking, especially in coupe form. Spritely to drive, especially with a manual transmission. Not pretentious. Economical. Honest. Familiar. Friendly. Comfortable. Edited March 27, 2009 by ocnblu

[turbo200]

Did you miss the Cobalt SS's performance at the Ring?

oh, so that's the one for the masses? it has nice styling? a comfortable luxurious interior? quality you can take pride in? the steering and suspension in all the models represent some modicum of driving enjoyment? are those the ones? cobalts sure are exciting and emotive cars/

[Camino LS6]

The Prius is an ugly little turd for people who hate cars.

It offends my car-loving soul.

[Satty]

I dont know about you guys, but I dont run The Ring on my way to work every morning. Actually, I dont get over 45 most of the time because of traffic and stop lights. The only quick turns I take are into the gas station for my coffee. I'd much rather do that ride in a car with plenty of headroom (the Cobalt sucks for someone my height) and nice leather seats, a quiet ride and a great stereo.

[Camino LS6]

I dont know about you guys, but I dont run The Ring on my way to work every morning. Actually, I dont get over 45 most of the time because of traffic and stop lights. The only quick turns I take are into the gas station for my coffee. I'd much rather do that ride in a car with plenty of headroom (the Cobalt sucks for someone my height) and nice leather seats, a quiet ride and a great stereo.

You don't know what you're missing! :AH-HA_wink:

[turbo200]

So if the Volt is 'too little, too late', and 'missed the PR train', isn't the next attempt insight just as pointless (or more so with the derivative prius styling & the baggage of the sales-failure 1st gen) ??

Can no 2nd-vehicle (unique body hybrid) in a segment expect to succeed, ever?

audi brings out a hulking SUV like 50 years after it's segment growth trend.... nary a whisper about 'too little, too late' there.

Can't get away from it with GM, tho.

nobody cares about hulking suvs, at least the majority of the market. they were a big market for GM and not much of anybody else. but they produced plenty of profit. but they aren't a mainstream market, and besides why are we even mentioning them? there's no special engineering feats that take place in building a body on frame suv wagon. gm is too little too late as they often are in leading into new segments or even staking a claim in a new segment with a well crafted well engineering and well designed vehicle. i could spend my time pulling examples out of the history books, but i fear my time would be wasted, everyone knows the countless examples.

[Intrepidation]

oh, so that's the one for the masses? it has nice styling? a comfortable luxurious interior? quality you can take pride in? the steering and suspension in all the models represent some modicum of driving enjoyment? are those the ones? cobalts sure are exciting and emotive cars/

If you're comparing the ride of the Cobalt and other listed attributes to the current Prius I have to call it out. The current Prius is widely regarded as a poor riding, poor driving, low rent interior compromise for the mpgs. The new on appears to remedy the problems (besides still not being fun to drive)

If you're just saying in general then my bad.

[Camino LS6]

nobody cares about hulking suvs, at least the majority of the market. they were a big market for GM and not much of anybody else. but they produced plenty of profit. but they aren't a mainstream market, and besides why are we even mentioning them? there's no special engineering feats that take place in building a body on frame suv wagon. gm is too little too late as they often are in leading into new segments or even staking a claim in a new segment with a well crafted well engineering and well designed vehicle. i could spend my time pulling examples out of the history books, but i fear my time would be wasted, everyone knows the countless examples.

None of which makes the Prius attractive.

Nor does it justify Toyota selling them at a loss.

[ocnblu]

I have my height-adjustable driver's seat turned all the way up, it gives me a comfortable driving position, with good visibility.

But this thread is not about the Chevrolet Cobalt. It is about the Toyota Prius.

[Robert Hall]

None of which makes the Prius attractive.

Nor does it justify Toyota selling them at a loss.

I'm sure GM will be selling the Volt for a loss... I can't imagine people lining up to spend $40k for a Chevy economy car.

[Satty]

The current Prius feels like a Rolls Royce compared to a Cobalt.

[balthazar]

>>"nobody cares about hulking suvs...they aren't a mainstream market"<<

Umm OK. Nevermind, it was a tangent.

What say you to the point of my post- RE the insight & the general commentary RE the segment & new players ?

[Camino LS6]

I'm sure GM will be selling the Volt for a loss... I can't imagine people lining up to spend $40k for a Chevy economy car.

Somebody better.

And why not?

It out greens and out techs the hideous Prius.

[turbo200]

The Prius is an ugly little turd for people who hate cars.

It offends my car-loving soul.

when we have nothing more we can say we resort to name calling and intangibles

[Intrepidation]

The current Prius feels like a Rolls Royce compared to a Cobalt.

Compared to the Cobalt probably, but I find the Cobalt rides and handles better even in low spec trim. Also the center mounted gauges are a deal breaker for me in any car. I hate them.

[balthazar]

>>"I'm sure GM will be selling the Volt for a loss... "<<

toyota no doubt would still be selling the prius at a loss if the government hadn't picked up the tab for all the R&D...

[ocnblu]

The Prius' brakes will jam you into the windshield. The "gearshift" is ridiculous. The Prius is clunky in operation. I've driven them.

[turbo200]

>>"nobody cares about hulking suvs...they aren't a mainstream market"<<

Umm OK. Nevermind, it was a tangent.

What say you to the point of my post- RE the insight & the general commentary RE the segment & new players ?

of course there can be new players, and of course they can find relevance. honda has been in this market before prius was, unfortunately they were as far from conventional as they ususally are and found no audience. now they have to play catch up with the prius reputation, which is deserved. prius has been around long enough, is a comfortable commuter car, lots of flexibility, decent quality, solid midline pricing, and the mileage is terrific. this generation only improves on every single one of those. just like toyota, methodical and meaningful, improvements. that being said, the point i was emphasizing was to lament the once great and biggest carmaker in the world STILL having nothing to compete in one of the most relevant and significant segments in the world, considering the times and where we're seeking to go as a community ecologically speaking.

[turbo200]

If you're comparing the ride of the Cobalt and other listed attributes to the current Prius I have to call it out. The current Prius is widely regarded as a poor riding, poor driving, low rent interior compromise for the mpgs. The new on appears to remedy the problems (besides still not being fun to drive)

If you're just saying in general then my bad.

just being general

Edited March 27, 2009 by turbo200

[Satty]

The 2nd gen gauges aren't as awkward as the 1st gen. It appears the 3rd gen integrates everything into the top of the center of the dash. Odd.

[Camino LS6]

of course there can be new players, and of course they can find relevance. honda has been in this market before prius was, unfortunately they were as far from conventional as they ususally are and found no audience. now they have to play catch up with the prius reputation, which is deserved. prius has been around long enough, is a comfortable commuter car, lots of flexibility, decent quality, solid midline pricing, and the mileage is terrific. this generation only improves on every single one of those. just like toyota, methodical and meaningful, improvements. that being said, the point i was emphasizing was to lament the once great and biggest carmaker in the world STILL having nothing to compete in one of the most relevant and significant segments in the world, considering the times and where we're seeking to go as a community ecologically speaking.

So you have already decided to dismiss the Volt?

It leapfrogs the Prius.

[ocnblu]

Hybrids are still a niche, for anyone to try to spin them elsewhere, is disingenuous.

[turbo200]

I'm sure GM will be selling the Volt for a loss... I can't imagine people lining up to spend $40k for a Chevy economy car.

true that. especially with a dated impala in the lineup. hopefully the pricing will find its way into the lower 30's before tax break, and subsequently 25-27 after taxes....

[balthazar]

>>"...the point i was emphasizing was to lament the once great and biggest carmaker in the world STILL having nothing to compete in one of the most relevant and significant segments in the world..."<<

Understood, but realize that this 'most relevent segment', as defined by unique-bodied hybrid vehicles, is basically populated by ONE car, and outside of that car, those manufacturers that even offer hybrids are all tied for second.

Perhaps if the U.S. Government had paid for 100% of the Volt's R&D, it'd have been out for the better part of a decade, too.

[Satty]

It leapfrogs the Prius.

Theoretically. Toyota may get a plug-in Prius out before GM gets the Volt out.

[Satty]

Perhaps if the U.S. Government had paid for 100% of the Volt's R&D, it'd have been out for the better part of a decade, too.

Then you'd be complaining about the government getting involved.

[turbo200]

So you have already decided to dismiss the Volt?

It leapfrogs the Prius.

huh? you missed my point. i am anxiously awaiting volt, emphasize anxiously. GM is stupid for not entering this segment years ago with the dual mode, or even licensing the tech like ford and nissan did. or co-funding it with opel or whatever.

and leapfrogs prius? what about after electric mode is done? won't it go to regular mileage figures? i'm not too informed on that aspect of the volt's tech. still you shouldn't summarily make a call like this unless we have both cars here to test and you can learn about both from sources outside the company.