Driven: The 70-MPG 2010 Toyota Prius

[pow]

"Driven: The 70-MPG 2010 Toyota Prius"

It's not a 70-MPG car; it's a 50-MPG car. I like how the journalist drives on a short 33 mile loop and returns 69.5 mpg based on the MPG meter, then thinks he can spread lies like that. Oh wait, I forgot, the Prius is the original media darling.

Autoblog did the same thing with the Insight and Fusion Hybrid.

[CaddyXLR-V]

That's the problem tough, for years all of the money has gone to trucks and SUVs and the cars were half assed products at best. Because of this imbalance, when the market shifted away from big trucks to smaller cars and crossovers, GM was left with good trucks and crappy cars compared to much of the competition. Chrysler and Ford are guilty of this too. However Ford at least is showing a real move to balancing out its portfolios.

That's because they didn't have to spend much money on making them nicer inside, there was no competition, they didn't need to offer the newest technologies, and could still charge $30,000 or more for each one. They were selling Tahoes for more than $40,000. What would GM need to put in a car to make it sell for that price? A TV in every headrest with a 15 in Nav screen, soft touch materials that rival an Audi, engines to rival BMW, and they still wouldn't sell 500k a year, let alone the millions of trucks and SUVs that GM could sell, all with the same engines, transmissions, and platforms.

Why does no one realize that was GM's ONLY option? They could have poured money into cars, and still had huge losses, or spent 1/4 of that on trucks, and had some ok profits for a while.

Until people start buying $30,000 and higher priced cars in mass quantities, GM will not make money.

[Intrepidation]

That's because they didn't have to spend much money on making them nicer inside, there was no competition, they didn't need to offer the newest technologies, and could still charge $30,000 or more for each one. They were selling Tahoes for more than $40,000. What would GM need to put in a car to make it sell for that price? A TV in every headrest with a 15 in Nav screen, soft touch materials that rival an Audi, engines to rival BMW, and they still wouldn't sell 500k a year, let alone the millions of trucks and SUVs that GM could sell, all with the same engines, transmissions, and platforms.

Why does no one realize that was GM's ONLY option? They could have poured money into cars, and still had huge losses, or spent 1/4 of that on trucks, and had some ok profits for a while.

Until people start buying $30,000 and higher priced cars in mass quantities, GM will not make money.

See, that's the sort of thinking that got GM where it is today. Funny how companies like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. managed to produce both trucks and cars, and funny how the cars didn't you know, suck. You talk as though the car market didn't exist in the 90's until a few years ago when trucks and SUV sales started to slide.

The market foe cars was, is, and always will be a plenty large market. You take money you make from the cash cows is spend it on making them better as well a s volume cars, so when the market changes people will be much more inclined to stick with the brand, and not go off to Toyota.

GM had plenty of money and several decades to get small and midsize cars (hell, large cars too) right. If they had got them right sooner they wouldn't be in nearly the shape they are today, because while most companies aren't doing well now, most aren't about to go bankrupt. Why is this so hard to understand?

Having a balanced product lineup full of quality, near or at the top of the class vehicles ensures a company can adapt to changing market demands.

Of course now it's almost too late because there's no segment to make money in (unless you're Hyundai). However before the economic collapse there WAS time and opportunity to make money on cars and good crossovers.

[the_yellow_dart]

"Driven: The 70-MPG 2010 Toyota Prius"

It's not a 70-MPG car; it's a 50-MPG car. I like how the journalist drives on a short 33 mile loop and returns 69.5 mpg based on the MPG meter, then thinks he can spread lies like that. Oh wait, I forgot, the Prius is the original media darling.

The Prius has so many different readouts about fuel economy that driving is like a game - and the MPG value is the score. He's not spreading lies, just bragging about his high score.

[Intrepidation]

The Prius has so many different readouts about fuel economy that driving is like a game - and the MPG value is the score. He's not spreading lies, just bragging about his high score.

Isn't that what driving a hybrid is all about anyway? To see if you can beat your top score?

[Paolino]

Isn't that what driving a hybrid is all about anyway? To see if you can beat your top score?

Do you know how INSANELY distracting it is to constantly watch the gauges to see if you're "beating your top score"?

[CaddyXLR-V]

See, that's the sort of thinking that got GM where it is today. Funny how companies like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. managed to produce both trucks and cars, and funny how the cars didn't you know, suck. You talk as though the car market didn't exist in the 90's until a few years ago when trucks and SUV sales started to slide.

The market foe cars was, is, and always will be a plenty large market. You take money you make from the cash cows is spend it on making them better as well a s volume cars, so when the market changes people will be much more inclined to stick with the brand, and not go off to Toyota.

GM had plenty of money and several decades to get small and midsize cars (hell, large cars too) right. If they had got them right sooner they wouldn't be in nearly the shape they are today, because while most companies aren't doing well now, most aren't about to go bankrupt. Why is this so hard to understand?

Having a balanced product lineup full of quality, near or at the top of the class vehicles ensures a company can adapt to changing market demands.

Of course now it's almost too late because there's no segment to make money in (unless you're Hyundai). However before the economic collapse there WAS time and opportunity to make money on cars and good crossovers.

Toyota and Honda also have advantages GM doesn't have, such as not having to pay for heathcare in their home country. They also don't have to pay pensions to twice the amount of current workers they have. They are new in this country, and don't have the cost of doing business here for the past 100 years weighing down on them.

How do you compete with a competitor who can do anything you can, but at half the cost?

They had the advantage in the truck market, and exploited it for as long as they could. Simple as that.

[Intrepidation]

Those may be advantages, but they have another : they built good volume cars and over years earned a reputation for it.

[Intrepidation]

I just don't get how you can sit there and basically make excuses for why they didn't build better cars, and why it was a good idea to pump money solely into trucks and SUVs. (This goes for Ford and Chrysler too)

Why the hell wouldn't you want all of the products to be good?

They're not a niche company, they are GENERAL MOTORS, up until recently the car largest company in the world.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I just don't get how you can sit there and basically make excuses for why they didn't build better cars, and why it was a good idea to pump money solely into trucks and SUVs. (This goes for Ford and Chrysler too)

Why the hell wouldn't you want all of the products to be good?

They're not a niche company, they are GENERAL MOTORS, up until recently the car largest company in the world.

I'm not saying I don't want them to build better cars. I just understand why their resources went to trucks. I don't think there is any way for them to be profitable long term with their current structure. Either their structure needs to change completely(such as through bankrupty where they will be able to shed some other their debt, workforce, plants, etc) or they need to find a way to get people to pay a premium for their cars compared to competitors products.

If they build a Malibu competitive to the Camry, and match it option for option, and even sell it for the same price as the Camry, and they both sell 300k of them, Toyota makes more money. Toyota can then turn around, and add more options to the Camry, and sell it for the same price, or reduce the price, and therefore steal sales from the Malibu. Truck have never operated like that, as people would not even cross shop between the big 3 for trucks, nevermind buying a Toyota truck.

[Intrepidation]

Well part of the problem is that even though the new Malibu is every bit as good as the Camry, GM has to undercut the Camry's price in order to entice skeptical buyers...because the last few generations of the Malibu were less than inspiring....to put it nicely.

I would think that if the last 2 generations of the Malibu matched the features and perceived quality of the Camry and Accord, then GM could get away with charging at least the same price, rather then killing itself with 3,000 off incentives after the first year to move them.

[siegen]

Autoblog did the same thing with the Insight and Fusion Hybrid.

shhh ;]

Edited March 27, 2009 by siegen

[Paolino]

Well part of the problem is that even though the new Malibu is every bit as good as the Camry, GM has to undercut the Camry's price in order to entice skeptical buyers...because the last few generations of the Malibu were less than inspiring....to put it nicely.

That's way too nice. They sucked. The previous two Malibu's sucked. And whoever approved the design of the last one, well, what were they thinking? It was DISGUSTING IMO.

[Intrepidation]

That's way too nice. They sucked. The previous two Malibu's sucked. And whoever approved the design of the last one, well, what were they thinking? It was DISGUSTING IMO.

Completely agree.

[gm4life]

I personally don't care...as long as there is choice and I can choose either a frugal car or a performance car more power to them.

That said, I think it's ugly and prefer the Insight or the Volt.

Smart man here. I agree.

[SAmadei]

Do you know how INSANELY distracting it is to constantly watch the gauges to see if you're "beating your top score"?

I'm sure some legislator somewhere is rubbing his hands going, "There should be a law..."

After a few crashes caused by people trying to beat their "top MPG score" by being distracted or by hypermileing 2 feet off a tractor trailer at 80 mph, I'm sure the lawyers will put an end to the "fun".

[Robert Hall]

I'm sure some legislator somewhere is rubbing his hands going, "There should be a law..."

After a few crashes caused by people trying to beat their "top MPG score" by being distracted or by hypermileing 2 feet off a tractor trailer at 80 mph, I'm sure the lawyers will put an end to the "fun".

I was behind a hypermiler this morning, I think. A Prius was right in front of me at the meter at the bottom of the ramp, and they pulled softly out into 65 mph traffic and barely hit 55, it seems...I got stuck behind them in the far right lane for a couple miles until a gap opened up and I could get to the middle lane..

[Daryl Z71]

Sports cars and trucks dont pay the bills. If you need proof of that, just look at the last decade.

We'll probably keep the Prius 4 more years, just depends on circumstances.

Oh I agree. People were buying trucks and suvs until the price of gas sky rocketed, then people had to switch their lifestyle so they could afford to drive. Thank the Government for not doing anything about the outrageous gas prices. This still doesn't excuse GM from not keeping up with their cars. I know their new ones are much better then before, but I think they could still see some improvement.

[Robert Hall]

I've driven a SUV that doesn't get over 18mpg since '00, and really, last summer, even though my commute was longer than the year before, I was only paying about $25 more per week for gas than I did a year before. Not incentive enough to compromise and buy a tiny car.

[balthazar]

MOST people overreact to the price of gas, instead of sitting down w/ a calculator for 1 minute.

I would never compromise what I prefer to drive to get a few more MPG; far more potential elsewhere to save money and still satisfy one's desires / needs automotively.

[Sixty8panther]

I think the production Volt is kind of "blah..." but graded on a curve

set by this steaming pile of c**** t*** it gets an A+++.

[FAPTurbo]

this'll get me a warning. there's some minimal connection to the humor already present in this thread. and of course a visceral connection.....................trust me i found this on a random search just now, not a hobbyism or anything....

How'd I miss those!?

[Sixty8panther]

MOST people overreact to the price of gas, instead of sitting down w/ a calculator for 1 minute.

I would never compromise what I prefer to drive to get a few more MPG; far more potential elsewhere to save money and still satisfy one's desires / needs automotively.

Yeah... trading in your 15 mpg average SUV to get a Prius that

MIGHT average 45 is pretty dumb when you're loosing your

shirt on the trade-in value & even more money on the Toyota

Prius' hefty sticker...

At $4.59/gallon it was foolish, at $1.92/gal it's insane!

[regfootball]

i saw the new prius on the platform at the autoshow the other night. nice improvements over the current DORKY version, although the car is still the leader in dork status. perhaps only the kia rondo can have a higher dork status. anyways, the funny thing about the prius including the other current ones on the floor was that there was no one else looking at them. ditto for the new insight. the insight wasn't even on a platform and no one even cared.

i think the economic bubble has people re-thinking what is true economy. everyone wants a good mpg like a hybrid, but no one wants the stigma of the green look anymore. no one wants to be targeted as a liberal greenie dork in a new time when common sense and back to basics is what its about, just like how there are people now who won't admit they voted for obama. prius and insight say radical.

true economy means low overall cost on a mainstream budget. value for the buck.

the only thing these cars offer is mpg. everything else is in deficit to other cars in the same price range. therefore, not a good use of your dollar when in every facet of life right now people are trying to get most value for buck they can.

of course 4 dollar gas means the mpg factors in a lot more. but hybrids need to ditch the dork style and go more the way of the fusion, which is the premiere hybrid right now. real useful car. and sensibly stated.

no one had any interest in the prius, which BTW has a heinous interior. the insight just simply looked like a korean knockoff of the prius. the insight's interior was more passable. i am sort of disappointed in the insight though. the original to me was the style standard for hybrids in their initial incarnation and had the most spirit. the make a prius knockoff that says kia so loud doesn't work for me.

everything i have read says the new insight and prius will get about the same mpg.

as quickly as it was about the hybrid, i think now it really says how much of a foolish sucker you are for getting one. maybe not so much the insight, but like i said, that simply says, 'you were too cheap to get the toyota so you got the kia looking one instead'. 'look honey, i paid 8 grand too much for a compact hatchback!!!!!'

toyota is starting to get schooled by hyundai right now anyways. its amazing how fast the tide turns these days. scion and toyota are going to get rode by hyundai big time.

Edited March 28, 2009 by regfootball

[Satty]

Yeah... trading in your 15 mpg average SUV to get a Prius that

MIGHT average 45 is pretty dumb when you're loosing your

shirt on the trade-in value & even more money on the Toyota

Prius' hefty sticker...

At $4.59/gallon it was foolish, at $1.92/gal it's insane!

Yeah, but buying without trading in when gas was $2.50/gallon wasn't a bad move at all. Its hard to trade in a car thats burnt to a crisp. Mine has about 29,000 miles on it and has averaged 44mpg, so its used roughly 660 gallons of gas in just under a year. Lets say there is was a car out there for the same price (Got ours for $27k and change, fully loaded, a few hundred under sticker) that would have averaged 25mpg over that span. That car would have used 1160 gallons of gas. Now lets say the average price for a gallon of gas over that span was $3.00. A little math shows the Prius has burned $1,980 in fuel, which the hypothetical other car would have used $3,480. Thats $1,500 in my pocket over the course of a year.

Making the hypothetical car average 30mpg (I do a lot of city driving, so thats unlikely) it still would have used 967 gallons, or $2,900 in gas, still $920 more than me.

But lets stretch this out, since the hybrid components are warrantied until 100,000 miles, I'll use that as my number. We'll use the same 44mpg number for the Prius and 30mpg number for Model X. Over that span, the Prius would use 2,272 gallons while Model X would use 3,334. Lets put the price of gas at $2.00, which puts the Prius at $4,544 over that span and Model X at $6668. Thats $2,124 more in my pocket during the hybrid component warranty period. If the price of gas goes back up, or if I quit sucking at driving and eek a few more mpgs out, the difference is even larger.

Because it uses less gas, the Prius has a cost-of-ownership advantage over anything else in the price range. The insurance on it isn't higher than any other $25k+ car, the yearly taxes on it aren't either. Maintenance is covered by Toyota, so thats not going to cost anything out of pocket. They hold their value too, I got some superb trade-in numbers last winter.

[Satty]

Reg, I cannot even begin to say how big of an ass you are. Your stupid stereotyping of hybrid drivers (you're not the only one, just the dumbest) is ridiculous.

And, since you're probably not smart enough to have considered this, I'll put it out there. Everyone is being schooled by Hyundai because Hyundai is the only company to tell people they can buy a new car and give it back if they get canned. Like you did.

[ocnblu]

Oooo, somebody got out his Texas Instruments!

[balthazar]

Something overlooked in the above math lesson, and it's huge.

A great portion of people were trading in their current ride simply because gas was high, not because there was an issue with the current ride, so while the mathmatical potential for the MPG increase is considerable, you cannot overlook the purchase price, etc of a new prius, plus the depreciation afterward vs. keeping whatever current car it replaced. In other words, one may save as much as $1500 in fuel costs for the year in a high-mileage instance, but if you laid out $10-15-20000 over & above for the new car purchase to begin with....

If you had to legitimately replace a vehicle and you went for a high MPG car, that's another financial pciture, but for those who knee-jerked their way to signing and ate the depreciation/purchase cost in the process, they aren't nearly as smart as they'd like to think.

Edited March 28, 2009 by balthazar

[Satty]

Something overlooked in the above math lesson, and it's huge.

A great portion of people were trading in their current ride simply because gas was high, yadda yadda.

Do you have actual numbers to back this up or are you just making an anecdotal point? Call me a dork, but I love proof.

[Robert Hall]

i think the economic bubble has people re-thinking what is true economy. everyone wants a good mpg like a hybrid, but no one wants the stigma of the green look anymore. no one wants to be targeted as a liberal greenie dork in a new time when common sense and back to basics is what its about, just like how there are people now who won't admit they voted for obama. prius and insight say radical.

Odd...I'm not aware of any stigma of driving green or driving a Prius..if anything, it's a status symbol in places I've lived...then again, the West is different. Not that I'd buy one, but I understand their popularity and that how many believe they are an eminently rational choice.

Edited March 28, 2009 by moltar

[Camino LS6]

Yeah, but buying without trading in when gas was $2.50/gallon wasn't a bad move at all. Its hard to trade in a car thats burnt to a crisp. Mine has about 29,000 miles on it and has averaged 44mpg, so its used roughly 660 gallons of gas in just under a year. Lets say there is was a car out there for the same price (Got ours for $27k and change, fully loaded, a few hundred under sticker) that would have averaged 25mpg over that span. That car would have used 1160 gallons of gas. Now lets say the average price for a gallon of gas over that span was $3.00. A little math shows the Prius has burned $1,980 in fuel, which the hypothetical other car would have used $3,480. Thats $1,500 in my pocket over the course of a year.

Making the hypothetical car average 30mpg (I do a lot of city driving, so thats unlikely) it still would have used 967 gallons, or $2,900 in gas, still $920 more than me.

But lets stretch this out, since the hybrid components are warrantied until 100,000 miles, I'll use that as my number. We'll use the same 44mpg number for the Prius and 30mpg number for Model X. Over that span, the Prius would use 2,272 gallons while Model X would use 3,334. Lets put the price of gas at $2.00, which puts the Prius at $4,544 over that span and Model X at $6668. Thats $2,124 more in my pocket during the hybrid component warranty period. If the price of gas goes back up, or if I quit sucking at driving and eek a few more mpgs out, the difference is even larger.

Because it uses less gas, the Prius has a cost-of-ownership advantage over anything else in the price range. The insurance on it isn't higher than any other $25k+ car, the yearly taxes on it aren't either. Maintenance is covered by Toyota, so thats not going to cost anything out of pocket. They hold their value too, I got some superb trade-in numbers last winter.

All well and good if the dollars and cents driive your automotive choices.

I'd rather have a car that makes me happy when I drive it.

It is highly doubtful that fuel economy will ever be a primary factor in a new car purchase for me.

[balthazar]

>>"Do you have actual numbers to back this up or are you just making an anecdotal point? Call me a dork, but I love proof. "<<

Glad to oblige : Dork.

Oh... hard numbers, no, I doubt there are any reliable ones... but there were numerous stories in the news of people taking huge depreciation hits trading in SUVs on tiny econoboxes and the market demand swing along those lines. More than enought evidence right there (prius supply has gone from 2 days to 180+ since gas flip-flopped).

Also: stories about people running out of gas on the road because they couldn't "afford to fill the tank"- those brainacs can be tossed in the same rubber basket.

-- -- -- -- --

I haven't heard of specific negative stigmas RE driving a prius, but they sure don't have a believably positive stigma that I've heard, either. Nothing remotely cool or interesting about them, IMO.

[FloydHendershot]

Do you have actual numbers to back this up or are you just making an anecdotal point? Call me a dork, but I love proof.

What proof? It's on the internet one post above yours. What more proof do you need?

[FloydHendershot]

>>"Do you have actual numbers to back this up or are you just making an anecdotal point? Call me a dork, but I love proof. "<<

Glad to oblige : Dork.

Oh... hard numbers, no, I doubt there are any reliable ones... but there were numerous stories in the news of people taking huge depreciation hits trading in SUVs on tiny econoboxes and the market demand swing along those lines. More than enought evidence right there (prius supply has gone from 2 days to 180+ since gas flip-flopped).

Also: stories about people running out of gas on the road because they couldn't "afford to fill the tank"- those brainacs can be tossed in the same rubber basket.

-- -- -- -- --

I haven't heard of specific negative stigmas RE driving a prius, but they sure don't have a believably positive stigma that I've heard, either. Nothing remotely cool or interesting about them, IMO.

Don't tell me the news is proof now. We know all about the news and the media.

[FloydHendershot]

this'll get me a warning. there's some minimal connection to the humor already present in this thread. and of course a visceral connection.....................trust me i found this on a random search just now, not a hobbyism or anything....

Hobbiysm? Perhaps you could use a hobby and perhaps you should also know that those two girls are sisters. You dont want to know what happened before that.

[cletus8269]

whoa, fire fight in here... the anime people getting riled up, the green people riled up... hehe

i did read a story on yahoo news about a guy trying to trade his yr old f150 at the honda dealership, they wouldnt give him $5000 below blue book for it because they couldnt sell the thing once they too it as a trade.

how did i handle the gas crunch? pssh just quit tooling around without a reason. combine trips. geez its easy as 123. too many people forget the basics.

[regfootball]

All well and good if the dollars and cents driive your automotive choices.

I'd rather have a car that makes me happy when I drive it.

It is highly doubtful that fuel economy will ever be a primary factor in a new car purchase for me.

but that's exactly the deal with the prius. even if money is a driving factor, the first cost of the prius is still far too high to be considered economical.

[Camino LS6]

but that's exactly the deal with the prius. even if money is a driving factor, the first cost of the prius is still far too high to be considered economical.

True.

Especially for what you get.

As a car ( not a godsend hybrid magicmobile), the Prius is crap compared even to similar compact sedans.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Japan is not your friend.

Your argument is invalid.

I could one up that, but it would definitely be inappropriate.

Edited March 29, 2009 by §carlet §wordfish

[pow]

For some people, MPG is as exciting as HP. Granted nobody needs 300 hp or 70 mpg, but you can derive a certain kind of pleasure from having both. Hypermiling requires the same 'precision driving' that enthusiastic mountain carving requires - it's more than just going slow.

[ocnblu]

Agreed. It's also annoying the hell out of normal ppl who are on the roads because they actually have to be somewhere, they're not in their own little world, distracted by their video game dashboard, trying to amass points. Ugh. NERD CITTAY...

Mr. Swordfish, when it comes to that anime (sp?) stuff, I've seen some pretty racy material.

[§carlet §wordfish]

As have I. I was merely using that as an example.

[regfootball]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/03/27/f...us.htm?page=all

With its roomier cabin, excellent visibility, and improved steering and handling, the new Prius is a better driving experience, but I wouldn’t call it fun to drive. You can have more fun watching the onboard fuel consumption indicators encourage you, or shame you, into driving more economically - thus helping to reduce greenhouse gases and global warming. Even if the icecaps eventually do melt, you can feel confident that you did your part.

Canad. drvr is usually pretty charitable in its reviews, so for it to say its not even fun makes me think its still a puff cruiser. This is a good article though and has good pictures.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

You are full of it... I personally know plenty of normal people driving them. The car has its merits, great gas mileage and it's clean.

You know as well as i do that manufacturing batteries is an enormously dirty operation. The Prius helps the environment like the Pinto helped Fords image.

[siegen]

I would rather drive a wedge of cheese than a Prius!

[Intrepidation]

That would be tough to drive I would think.