REPORT: Union chief says plans to build Chevrolet Orlando in U.S. on hold

[Oracle of Delphi]

The HHR should have had AWD available, this was a huge oversight by GMNA ...

[Z-06]

The HHR should have had AWD available, this was a huge oversight by GMNA ...

Was DeltaI designed to accomodate AWD? If not how expensive such a fix would have been for just one vehicle?

I agree an AWD would have given more flexibility to HHR and more versatility to the folks using the vehicle as a truck/van.

[regfootball]

Well as a HHR owner and one that has been around many HHR owners here are some of the things they would change.

The hood is no issue as if it was shorter the engine would just get moved into the cabin. You going to gain little as there is little wasted space inder the hood.

As for fleet sales plai panels and base models have been popular with companies as the styling has set their fleets appart. It is no like the G6 that they are just getting dumped un Enterprise lots just to get them out of GM inventory. The fleet in this case is not unlike many truck sales.

Going into 2010 sales and profitrs have been great with few changed. Besides what car 5 years in is not ready for an update?

The present car few owners argue for more cargo space. That has never been an issue. If it had a little more no one complain but few complain now. What many ask for are, a different rear door that opens diffently or has a opening rear window. Better door panels, a little more head room, width would be needed if you raise the roof to prevent it from having the telephone booth looke. They wanted window swithches on the doors and they got them this year.

The biggest need is interior storage. As it is there are a few bins but no center console. The glove box is small and the dash storage is great but small.

As for a group of owners I would say the HHR owners may be as satisfied group of GM owners there are. The biggest black mark or complaints I see are quaility issues with some. Most have trouble fre cars but I too often see people with nagging little problems that tarnish ownership for some. So far with mine I have yet to have more than one TSB done on it. That was for a Vacuum pump t be added to assiste the Turbo brakes. This was an issue on the Solstice and Sky also. It was a LNF engine problem not a HHR problem.

As for presnet owners response to the Orlando it has been poor. it is about 1 out of 10 like the Orlando or are showing any like for it.

The bottom line the people who buy an HHR are not the same that would buy a NOX or Orlando. ALso the fleet company sales will be lost as I have many in my area like a Coke distributor and a Miller Beer distributor use the HHR for their sales staff. Even the many independents that were not fleet sales like my Local Jeff the Plumber has several panel in his small company to save on gas and make a good rolling advertisment for his small company.

The key in this market is while you may gain a few sales being the same as everyone else your going to lose a lot more when you lose a popular concept from those who want to be different.

The bottom line is unless the Orlando is priced in the HHR line it will never sell in the number the HHR has. People have too many other choices in the same price range on very similar vehicles. For the Orlando to make it it needs to do so on options and price to set itself appart.

The sad part is the Orlando will in my opinion be more expensive just as the Cruze and lose it's advantage fo being a good value.

look at a profile shot and a top shot of the HHR. the front end overhang is way too long, the hood is set too far back. the hood is longer than wide. really should be wider than long for a good use of a front drive chassis. the interior of the HHR prob gets cheated of 6-12 inches of interior length because of poor use of length forward of the windshield.

[hyperv6]

look at a profile shot and a top shot of the HHR. the front end overhang is way too long, the hood is set too far back. the hood is longer than wide. really should be wider than long for a good use of a front drive chassis. the interior of the HHR prob gets cheated of 6-12 inches of interior length because of poor use of length forward of the windshield.

You might want to look under the hood before you may any statement like this.

Here is an example of a SS which has the largest over hang. Please note the footwell goes right to the back on the engine, the engine is up to the front headers and the radiator and condenser are on the outside of the front header panel unlike most other cars.

In this case there is a little bigger bumper but that is there because these is a large intercooler in it. Also they need to keep the air out from under the front bumper.

The only realistic way to shorten the over hang is to move the front wheels forward but with the present transaxle that is not possble.

Note the hood latch is right behind the grill and if it is hit they go right through the radiator.

The bottom line is there is not any room up there to do as you claim. The area for gains would have been minimal. Heck the radiator condenser and intercooler are infront of the turn signals and even part of the headlights.

As for width they tried to keep the vehicle to the point it was the same as the Cobalt so they could share parts this may have hurt in some ways room but it also kept the cost and risk down and made this vehicle more profitable. As it is size has not been a major factor to the many who have bought it.

As for AWD it would have only added weight, expense and used more power to run. While it would have been nice so few would have sold it would have not been worth the cost to develop. Can you say Pontiac 6000 STE AWD?

Remember this is the vehicle GM took a risk on as the press kept saying it was too little too late. Lutz moved it on and it paid off. He kept the risk down and used as much from the cobalt as possible. The ned result was a low cost low risk vehicle that sold in greater numbers than many other GM vehicles. This made them money and that is what is is all about. They took a boring Cobalt wagone and made something interesting out of it.

Hell they could have dropped a V8 and RWD in it too and made another SSR. Now that was a high profit machine for the masses! GM is so much better off for thaty one.

As too often here the ideas while good are often short sighted due to the lack of facts. I am not calling out anyone here as we all have done it.

Edited March 29, 2009 by hyperv6

[Chazman]

I just find the HHR SS to be such an attractive product. I don't know if there is something about fitting a boxy breadwagon with a badass powertrain and agressive wheels and chassis - but it really hits a sweetspot with me. And it is so FUN to drive!

The only thing I'd change is the front end. It's just a tiny bit overstylized for me.

I really wish GM would learn the process of continual improvement rather than replace and start over every cycle. The Orlando, eh. Why not keep improving the HHR with a next gen version, like Mini with their car.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Chazman

[Chazman]

The HHR should have had AWD available, this was a huge oversight by GMNA ...

I'm not so sure if AWD availability would have really added that much value.

[hyperv6]

I'm not so sure if AWD availability would have really added that much value.

At 3200 pounds as it is it would have only added weight to something that was only ment to be a wagon not a Escape competitor.

The SS sold on the first drive. It was one of the first GM FWD that was really sorted out. It makes my GTP feel like crap in handling on back roads. GMPD did their work converting a conventional car to being a well tuned machine.

Now that the same folks from GMPD are working on the new cars I can see where they will build these things correct from the start and not have to convert them from a unsorted mess.

As for the SS nose I is a little large till you crawl up into it and realise most of it is used to contain the intercooler. Also this thing in stock form will top out at 155 MPH and with the stage kit approach 170 MPH. To make it stable an not have to add a speed limitor they had to control the air around and under the box of a body.

I would recomend to all even if your not going to buy one to drive a SS Cobalt or SS HHR at a dealer. You will be amazed at how good these cars really are. It gives me hope on the new products that they will be as well sorted from the start.

[GMTruckGuy74]

One of the under $25k vehicles I am considering for my AURA lease replacement is the HHR. Here's what I've found that caught my attention ('09 HHR 2LT in Imperial Blue Metallic with gray interior, the 2.4L 4 cyl 2LT package, and the Chrome Pakage; just missing the leather/heated seats option to make it perfect):

However, my wife does not like the styling of HHR at all - and friends that went to the Philly Auto Show with us, the wife feels the same way about the HHR too (the husband says it's okay, but it's not his 'thing'). I like it much better than my wife's preferred wagonish car - the Pontiac Vibe GT. Only time will tell what ends up in my driveway though!

[hyperv6]

One of the under $25k vehicles I am considering for my AURA lease replacement is the HHR. Here's what I've found that caught my attention ('09 HHR 2LT in Imperial Blue Metallic with gray interior, the 2.4L 4 cyl 2LT package, and the Chrome Pakage; just missing the leather/heated seats option to make it perfect):

However, my wife does not like the styling of HHR at all - and friends that went to the Philly Auto Show with us, the wife feels the same way about the HHR too (the husband says it's okay, but it's not his 'thing'). I like it much better than my wife's preferred wagonish car - the Pontiac Vibe GT. Only time will tell what ends up in my driveway though!

Nice, if you want the leather and heated seats just have the dealer chech around and do a trade. I have seen many blue LT's around and I am sure some are loaded.

As for the wife how often do women like what men do or vise a versea. My wife could care less for a Solstice or a Vette too. The one thing my wife and I do agree on with cars is the Aztec no matter how cheap the price was still to ugly to buy. LOL

I bought my HHR because I liked how it performedl. As for the looks I was ok with them and did like the 18 inch wheels and the SS trim.

Now that I have one I have been amazed with the many positive coments I have gotten. I put on a set of 16 inch tires for winter from Wheel Vintique that are the old style dog dish caps. I have had many people say how they love the wheel combo on it and I hate to tell them I only have them on for winter tires. LOL

The HHR is a polarizing styled vehicle. If you have a awareness for vintage cars you get the idea but if you have no awareness of vintage cars or even really car much about cars the concept is lost on this kind of customer. Women that would not know what a Ford coupe was let alone a 49 Suburban would not understand why this vehicle looks as it does. Either way there was enough of a market that understood and it did its job.

The Nissan Cube and Honda Element are no different.

Edited March 29, 2009 by hyperv6

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I just find the HHR SS to be such an attractive product. I don't know if there is something about fitting a boxy breadwagon with a badass powertrain and agressive wheels and chassis - but it really hits a sweetspot with me. And it is so FUN to drive!

The only thing I'd change is the front end. It's just a tiny bit overstylized for me.

I really wish GM would learn the process of continual improvement rather than replace and start over every cycle. The Orlando, eh. Why not keep improving the HHR with a next gen version, like Mini with their car.

Best post in the thread!!!

[ocnblu]

I love the HHR.

[CapitalTruck]

I think it's time for HHR to be gone. It will be outdated very soon (that's how it goes these days). Like the other posters have said, I worry about the Orlando being in direct competition with the new Equinox. Also, when GM upgrades the current Delta (that's what the Cobalt/HHR is based on right?) platform for the Cruze will they really want to have to continue supplying technogly and support for the old Delta platform?

To me this vehicle seems redundant with the wonderful HHR and the brand new Equinox already covering the 5-seater MPV market. This will never be a suitable replacement for the HHR, in my eyes. Orlando is not an ugly car, it's just different and clearly not as special as HHR. The only way it could fit is if the HHR goes out of production, and I believe that vehicle still has at least a few years left of market sweetness before ppl get tired of it.

Edited March 29, 2009 by CapitalTruck

[hyperv6]

I think it's time for HHR to be gone. It will be outdated very soon (that's how it goes these days). Like the other posters have said, I worry about the Orlando being in direct competition with the new Equinox. Also, when GM upgrades the current Delta (that's what the Cobalt/HHR is based on right?) platform for the Cruze will they really want to have to continue supplying technogly and support for the old Delta platform?

The Idea would be is to move a redesigned HHR to the new platform in a new retro design. The present HHR will be here till 2012. Then you would update the new HHR with new styling of something say like a 55-57 Suburban or even Nomad. In a New Camaro kind of Retro way.

But to come out with w Mazda 5 clone that would compete with aproduct you alreay have is counter productive.

[hyperv6]

I am not saying the HHR would remain the same on the Delta. It would use the new platform and have a new retro look.

A Nomad like roof like the one the HHR show truck with a 55 truck front in a modern retro like way of the new Camaro.

The closer they can make it like a Mini but still useful the better.

[Oracle of Delphi]

As for AWD it would have only added weight, expense and used more power to run. While it would have been nice so few would have sold it would have not been worth the cost to develop. Can you say Pontiac 6000 STE AWD?

Your assumption is incorrect. Had GMNA engineered the HHR with AWD they could have sold more units in Northern U.S. States and in Canada. Also AWD could have been used on the Delta platform as a whole to increase sales for all Delta products, thereby evening out the cost per unit ...

[hyperv6]

Your assumption is incorrect. Had GMNA engineered the HHR with AWD they could have sold more units in Northern U.S. States and in Canada. Also AWD could have been used on the Delta platform as a whole to increase sales for all Delta products, thereby evening out the cost per unit ...

Your assumption is weak since sales of the HHR has been stong here in the north and in Canada. Even on the HHR site you can't believe all the HHR owners. The question that needs answred if yes they would havwe sold some more if AWD was offered but how many more? They could have sold more if they had a Diesel too but how many more?

Would they have sold enough to justifiy the added cost of development at a time HM had little money to add these extras? I just see them getting ther return on the extra money spent.

The whole Idea here was to compete with the PT and do it as inexpensivly as they could. That is what they did and they made a profit by doing so. A so to speak silk purse out of a Cobalt pigs ear.

I live in the snow belt and to be honest we have some AWD cars here but most people don't even use winter tires here let alone worry about AWD. Cars today will go through most snows with ease and not need AWD or Snow Tires. It is the people in the non snow areas that panic with that one or twice a year snow or ice storm that we laugh at.

My SS was a tank in the snow and never put a tire out of place. If you could not drive my SS in the snow you sould not even be on the road.

The only problem I had was when the snow gets over 7 inches I push it on the street like a plow on the SS front end.