Motor Trend Muscle Car Shootout

[Intrepidation]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...g_gt/index.html

Finish Lines

Going into this test, and knowing the basic stats, we had an inkling how it might turn out. (All three cars, by the way, eke out impressive and nearly identical fuel-economy results -- though the Mustang's lack of a six-speed means it finishes last on EPA.) Never did we guess, though, how close the overall finish would turn out to be.

In third place, the Dodge Challenger R/T. Third of three, but hardly last. As MacKenzie well sums up: "Hugely endearing personality. Even though the Challenger starts to fall apart dynamically above 7/10ths you can't help but like the big guy. It's sorta like a Heritage Soft-Tail Harley; a carefully crafted and easy to own reminder of a simpler, sunnier America." Astutely executed, fast, and sit-back comfortable, the Challenger is the pony you'd ride for a 50-state tour. On the downside, the orange bruiser simply can't carve with the precision of its rivals, and though it starts with a mid-pack base sticker ($30,945), adding the good stuff (six-speed manual, 3.92 rear axle, limited-slip diff, 20-in. wheels and tires, etc.) pushed the price of our tester to a trio-topping $38,270.

Finishing in second place . . . the Ford Mustang GT. Mind you, this was a photo-finish. The Mustang with Track Pack blew us all away with its sublime steering, incredible front-end grip, stylish cockpit, and beauteous V-8. As Loh notes, "That's what most impressed me: Ford's two competitors had the advantage of sampling 45 years of Mustang DNA, yet they still couldn't pull out a runaway win." The Mustang scores well on value, too: base price for the GT is $28,845, and with Premium package, Track Pack, security package, and the comfort group, our test car totaled $34,330. The Ford might even have scored an upset, except it cannot match the Camaro's unfailing poise, its breathtaking power, or its styling drama. Those quality issues sure didn't help, either.

And so . . . our winner, the Prime Pony of the 21st Century is . . . the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS. Considering all the ways GM could easily have got this car wrong, it's nothing short of a triumph how unquestionably the company got it right. The Camaro might trail the Mustang in handling sharpness, and there's no doubt it finishes last for cabin and trunk volume, but, well, you don't pick your pony for the size of its saddlebags. Graced with massive power, excellent efficiency, unfailing refinement, and show-stopping looks, the Camaro SS nails every essential for its segment. What's more, it's priced to steal. Base sticker for the 1SS manual: just $30,995. With the Boston Acoustics audio package, our cloth-seat tester climbed only to $31,490. Go nuts with the options pencil -- adding leather, power sunroof, ground effects, six-speed auto, and more stuff you really don't need -- and you can nudge the SS just over $40K.

So there you have it: Chevrolet claims the ponycar title, circa 2009. Now, go to it, Hatfields, McCoys, and HatCoys. We've been waiting 35 years to witness once again perhaps the all-time greatest feud in Autoland. Where's my cigar? Ah, there's the opening bell!

[Intrepidation]

Worth the read, it's an great article.

[cletus8269]

love the r/t stripes on that challenger. one of my favorite call outs.

[NOS2006]

Camaro FTW.

[G. David Felt]

Love the style, interior and exterior of the Camero and Challenger, but the Mustang is just Blah, nothing special. So far every Mustang I have looked at have not impressed me, especially all the rusty parts. I was at a dealership, Totem Lake Ford of Kirkland, WA and they had a Green Bullit on the show room floor along with a Saleen and a GTO and what I noticed was all three had rusty brake systems, looking under the hood, there was rusty parts on the engines. The tail pipes on one of them was rusty and I could go on and on about the poor quality.

The sales person came up to me and asked me if I would like to test drive the only Real American Muscle car left in America that was the best in Quality that no Asian or European builder could match.

We'll I could not disappoint the man, so I pointed out while others were looking at the cars also all the flaws I could see, less I say I never did get to test drive it, but was not really wanting to anyway.

For those that would say why were you there? I was there doing a good dead for my 78 year old neighbor who wanted his oil changed on his expedition he owns. So I drove it down and got it done and while I was waiting took a look in the showroom and came away very dissappointed in Ford.

Those that think their cars are getting better need to take off the sun shades as it was pathetic to see the exact cheap ass plastic vents in the escort, taurus, mustang, trucks, etc. It seems that every model uses the same vents, same radios, etc. People Bitch about GM doing cloning and yet you get the same plastic garbage in the econo box vehicle as you do in their top of the line 65K Ranch Ford Pickup truck or Expedition XL SUV.

Why should a high 5 figure vehicle have the same cheap ass plastic dash components as a 15K car? In my book Ford is NOT getting it done with their cars, crossovers, SUV and trucks.

[intrigued]

It is interresting how the Mustang was so close in the scoring to the camaro. I think that the mustang has matured very well with the new redisign. It is not a faster car then the camaro but it lays down its power with more efficency and it's light weight helps make up for 75 out of the 100 or so horsepower difference. the fact that the stang is 4.9 to 60 and 13.5 through the quarter when the comaro is 4.6 and 13.0 is really amazing. Add to that the act that they are so close to eachother in braking and handling test and I would say that the camaro, while a world class car and clearly better then the mustang, is only marginally better, which is a credit to the mustang's performance and not a jab against the camaro. When the mustang gets the 400hp 5.0 dohc and 6 speed transmissions next year this will have to be revaluated, the finishing order may have to change,

[black02]

It is interresting how the Mustang was so close in the scoring to the camaro. I think that the mustang has matured very well with the new redisign. It is not a faster car then the camaro but it lays down its power with more efficency and it's light weight helps make up for 75 out of the 100 or so horsepower difference. the fact that the stang is 4.9 to 60 and 13.5 through the quarter when the comaro is 4.6 and 13.0 is really amazing. Add to that the act that they are so close to eachother in braking and handling test and I would say that the camaro, while a world class car and clearly better then the mustang, is only marginally better, which is a credit to the mustang's performance and not a jab against the camaro. When the mustang gets the 400hp 5.0 dohc and 6 speed transmissions next year this will have to be revaluated, the finishing order may have to change,

The Mustang is 300 pounds lighter, yet it gets the same fuel economy. Part of the reason, I believe, is the shorter axle ratio, which helps it get the 13.5s 1/4 mile. I'll be surprised -- amazed even -- if the Mustang doesn't pick up 50 pounds with the 5.0. It'll probably get a taller axle ratio to help fuel economy. My guess is that it will be very close to the Camaro in acceleration.

I agree, next year's comparison will be interesting too.

[saturnd00d]

.5 in the 1/4 mile is a huge difference though, but the 0-60 is quite close

[6t5frlane]

Love the style, interior and exterior of the Camero and Challenger, but the Mustang is just Blah, nothing special. So far every Mustang I have looked at have not impressed me, especially all the rusty parts. I was at a dealership, Totem Lake Ford of Kirkland, WA and they had a Green Bullit on the show room floor along with a Saleen and a GTO and what I noticed was all three had rusty brake systems, looking under the hood, there was rusty parts on the engines. The tail pipes on one of them was rusty and I could go on and on about the poor quality.

The sales person came up to me and asked me if I would like to test drive the only Real American Muscle car left in America that was the best in Quality that no Asian or European builder could match.

We'll I could not disappoint the man, so I pointed out while others were looking at the cars also all the flaws I could see, less I say I never did get to test drive it, but was not really wanting to anyway.

For those that would say why were you there? I was there doing a good dead for my 78 year old neighbor who wanted his oil changed on his expedition he owns. So I drove it down and got it done and while I was waiting took a look in the showroom and came away very dissappointed in Ford.

Those that think their cars are getting better need to take off the sun shades as it was pathetic to see the exact cheap ass plastic vents in the escort, taurus, mustang, trucks, etc. It seems that every model uses the same vents, same radios, etc. People Bitch about GM doing cloning and yet you get the same plastic garbage in the econo box vehicle as you do in their top of the line 65K Ranch Ford Pickup truck or Expedition XL SUV.

Why should a high 5 figure vehicle have the same cheap ass plastic dash components as a 15K car? In my book Ford is NOT getting it done with their cars, crossovers, SUV and trucks.

I think a lot of people would disagree. Ford seems to be making the right moves while the General lags behind. If you don't like plastic I would not look into the new Camaro. Yes Camaro with an A . See ya learned something

[CMG]

Am I missing something?

The Camaro is listed at 6146cc and 426hp.

Why did they not test it against the SRT8 Challenger, which is 425hp and 6.1 liters..

??

[Camino LS6]

Am I missing something?

The Camaro is listed at 6146cc and 426hp.

Why did they not test it against the SRT8 Challenger, which is 425hp and 6.1 liters..

??

Most likely due to pricing.

And the fact that a Z/28 is still a possibility.

[deftonesfan867]

If the SS does 60 in 4.7 for the stick, a Z/28 would do about 4 seconds flat and MURDER anything in it's class.

[CMG]

Most likely due to pricing.

And the fact that a Z/28 is still a possibility.

I thought the SRT8 Challenger had an MSRP of less than 40K even with the guzzler tax. That's pretty close to what that R/T came out at after the almost 10 grand of options... it said $30K msrp and 38K+ as tested?

It would have been a better race, 425hp, bigger brakes, better suspension, better interior etc...?

Reminds me of the Chrysler 300 SRT8/Cadillac CTS-V/GTO comparison. Why include a 2 door GTO with two four door performance sedans?

I just don't get it... lol

[Camino LS6]

We are just lucky to find two RWD performance cars to compare these days.

I love all three of these on their own merits, so I don't have a horse in this race.

[Delta Force79]

Camaro is growing on me slowly, the Mustang is a huge improvement over the -05-09's....but still the Challenger is the one I would get if I had the cash. Granted it has the most dull/plain jane interior of the 3, but the exterior more than makes up for it. Plus I just love the quad headlights and full width taillights.

[gm4life]

Camaro is growing on me slowly, the Mustang is a huge improvement over the -05-09's....but still the Challenger is the one I would get if I had the cash. Granted it has the most dull/plain jane interior of the 3, but the exterior more than makes up for it. Plus I just love the quad headlights and full width taillights.

I like the Dodge, but I'd take the Camaro anyday over the Mustang or Challenger.

Edited March 26, 2009 by gm4life

[turbo200]

as a mid 20k sports coupe, the camaro's interior quality is not just acceptable but worthy, and the rest of the car is so desirable there's no need to compromise, the car asks for none. as a mid 30k sports car, the Camaro has some room to grow into a true 3-series demolisher [in present form it's well on its way, and perhaps most of the 3-series line is already crushed, if not for that endlessly attractive face], but the interior quality is marginal at best.....the being said, the key is design. i like how edmunds put it, the exterior is so perfect in its aggression and retro-futurism, and the interior is like you've gone to another century too, and not in a bad way. people griping over camaro's interior quality need to get with it, this is an exciting car to own.

Edited March 26, 2009 by turbo200

[turbo200]

everytime i check back into one of these reviews, it amazes me how right General Motors got the powertrains. they are perfect, not a flaw there, far from it, these are the mountain for all other affordable sports coupes to climb in terms of affordably refined powertrain. that being said, for me the definition of the camaro should and could have been tweaked lightly to meet the demands of today's consumer, demands that perhaps were more optomistically just a glimmer in 2006 when this car was being developed. GM slightly missed an opportunity. even so, this camaro is fantastic in every way, and its presence alone will be a huge factor in buying decisions. i love everything they've done with the packaging to make it more appealing. wheels, RS, halos, even steelies all together define what amounts to GM's most perfectly imaged and marketed vehicle so far in the last decade. they need to go further now and start working on special editions, and two tones, aggressive packages, and the like. the camaro still will be the 100k dynamo GM wishes for. perhaps as far as 130k units, but that is being very very optomistic in this environment. maybe next year?...

[Satty]

Ford is still using a 5-speed manual? Does any other car with a stick still use a 5-speed?

[Camino LS6]

Ford is still using a 5-speed manual? Does any other car with a stick still use a 5-speed?

I've wondered about that too, but it seems to work for them.

I'd have to drive it myself to know what I think compared to the 6-speeds I'm used to.

Then again, sometimes I mis the straightforward nature of an old 4-speed.

[Northstar]

Ford is still using a 5-speed manual? Does any other car with a stick still use a 5-speed?

Solstice and Sky have a 5-speed, both normal and GXP/RL versions. The Miata has a 5-speed as well. The Cobalt has a 5-speed as well, I'm sure there's plenty more in the compact car segment(s).

[cletus8269]

I thought the SRT8 Challenger had an MSRP of less than 40K even with the guzzler tax. That's pretty close to what that R/T came out at after the almost 10 grand of options... it said $30K msrp and 38K+ as tested?

It would have been a better race, 425hp, bigger brakes, better suspension, better interior etc...?

Reminds me of the Chrysler 300 SRT8/Cadillac CTS-V/GTO comparison. Why include a 2 door GTO with two four door performance sedans?

I just don't get it... lol

well i think along with price, there is added weight to the SRT8. according to edmonds the srt8 tips the scales 100lbs heavier.

srt8

rt

[Robert Hall]

Good review...I'd like to see a comparo between the '10 Shelby GT500, Challenger SRT8, and Camaro SS (since the Z-28 is mythical at this point).

As far as these 3, I'm going to have to check out all three...they all have qualities that appeal to me..it would be tough for me to pick one.

[Camino LS6]

Good review...I'd like to see a comparo between the '10 Shelby GT500, Challenger SRT8, and Camaro SS (since the Z-28 is mythical at this point).

As far as these 3, I'm going to have to check out all three...they all have qualities that appeal to me..it would be tough for me to pick one.

The Z/28 isn't mythical.

The car is ready, GM just didn't pull the trigger - yet.

[Z-06]

Good review...I'd like to see a comparo between the '10 Shelby GT500, Challenger SRT8, and Camaro SS (since the Z-28 is mythical at this point).

As far as these 3, I'm going to have to check out all three...they all have qualities that appeal to me..it would be tough for me to pick one.

The car is known to have drive train as the CTS-V, seen doing rounds at the 'Ring and it is one of the worst kept GM secret. What GM does not know is when to pull the trigger.

[Robert Hall]

The Z/28 isn't mythical.

The car is ready, GM just didn't pull the trigger - yet.

True...not likely to see production in the near future, I meant.

[Camino LS6]

True...not likely to see production in the near future, I meant.

I got your meaning.

As for production, I'd say flip a coin.

I don't think GM has any idea when/if to pull that trigger right now.

But I hope they do.

[Robert Hall]

I got your meaning.

As for production, I'd say flip a coin.

I don't think GM has any idea when/if to pull that trigger right now.

But I hope they do.

Yeah, I'd love to see it.. so they can go toe-to-toe with the Shelby and SRT8. Like the CTS-v and Z-R1, high end speciality models may not be high volume, but they are great for the company's image...

[Camino LS6]

Bragging rights still have value.

[Z-06]

Yeah, I'd love to see it.. so they can go toe-to-toe with the Shelby and SRT8. Like the CTS-v and Z-R1, high end speciality models may not be high volume, but they are great for the company's image...

Bragging rights still have value.

Plus good way to make money. As powertrain is already shared, and the extra premium along with higher margins and lower haggle on these niche vehicles will directly transfer into more money for GM.

[regfootball]

i sat in a new camaro at the auto show the other night. the mullets were out by the way.

the interior design is way cool, but sorry, the plastic quality is a major flaw. GM really needs to get with the program. its a sales deterrent. funny though, the 'touch points' are all good (shifter, steering wheel). the manual shifter in particular, at least not running, felt silky and snick snick.

another issue. mailslot windows and overall in the bathtub/lack of outward visibility.

to me, trunk space was not an issue..access maybe, but for a pony car it looked fine. rear seat room did not look horrible either.

seats even felt comfortable and had support, even if the cloth felt a tish cheap.

interior assembly quality was quite good too.

just that there is sooooo much plastic and its all that darned cheap $h!ty GM plastic.

new lacrosse had acres of it too. you could just see it.

i did not sit in the new stang but the dash bores me. However, for livability and material quality it seems like it may be better day to day. certainly you can at least see out of the damn thing.

a couple hundred more bucks for better plastic would make the camaro a knockout home run. seriously. the cheap plastic ruins it. just like it does in the malibu too, only even moreso.

but i guess if i drove the v6 manual i may change my mind. i can imagine that gearbox being slicker than........

Edited March 28, 2009 by regfootball

[Intrepidation]

You must have missed the bolded part that implied this isn't a car to fondle the f@#king dash, it's to DRIVE, for people who care more about driving and performance than making love to the plastics of the interior because they're too pathetic to get some with an actual person.

Yes the interior could be better, every car could be better in some way or another, but for what you get, I'll take the DI V6 (or V8), great handling, and 6-speed automatic or manual over how nice the plastic feels when I glide my ass across it.

[2QuickZ's]

The funny thing about GM is that the "cheap" plastic they use is really more expensive than the "good" plastic other companies use. GM seems to be stuck on ABS or PC/ABS whereas the rest of the automotive world has moved on to Polypropylene for the hard instrument panels and lower components such as glove boxes and consoles. Polypro is cheaper than ABS.

[Northstar]

The interior is fine for the $23-27k model, but for the 2SS especially, at $35k or more, they should add a "nice interior" option like Ford did with the Mustang. The interior is unacceptable for a $35k car, I don't care if it has 422HP and looks sweet.

[gm4life]

The interior is fine for the $23-27k model, but for the 2SS especially, at $35k or more, they should add a "nice interior" option like Ford did with the Mustang. The interior is unacceptable for a $35k car, I don't care if it has 422HP and looks sweet.

That is not going to stop someone in my family from getting a 5th Gen SS.

[Z-06]

That is not going to stop someone in my family from getting a 5th Gen SS.

But for many that GM is hoping to convert into GM's fold and changing perceptions about GM's cars it might.

[Camino LS6]

Well, the consensus seems to be that the Camaro interior is equal to, or better than, its competitors - so maybe GM has it just right.

[regfootball]

The funny thing about GM is that the "cheap" plastic they use is really more expensive than the "good" plastic other companies use. GM seems to be stuck on ABS or PC/ABS whereas the rest of the automotive world has moved on to Polypropylene for the hard instrument panels and lower components such as glove boxes and consoles. Polypro is cheaper than ABS.

whatever the case, the cars they had on the floor, the big expanses of plastic were badly beat up and hashed, and looked terrible. not befitting of any car in that price range.

Edited March 29, 2009 by regfootball

[regfootball]

You must have missed the bolded part that implied this isn't a car to fondle the f@#king dash, it's to DRIVE, for people who care more about driving and performance than making love to the plastics of the interior because they're too pathetic to get some with an actual person.

Yes the interior could be better, every car could be better in some way or another, but for what you get, I'll take the DI V6 (or V8), great handling, and 6-speed automatic or manual over how nice the plastic feels when I glide my ass across it.

buy a new car with all the money involved and you will indeed care if you got your money's worth.

[pow]

I finally got to sit in the Camaro. The Mustang is by far the more livable and usable car - better visibility, higher quality interior, larger trunk opening, lower curb weight - but the Camaro looks like no other car out there.

I'd probably choose a $26K Camaro over a $26K Mustang for its styling and engine, but if Ecoboost replaced the hoary old 4.0L... then that's a different story.

[pow]

whatever the case, the cars they had on the floor, the big expanses of plastic were badly beat up and hashed, and looked terrible. not befitting of any car in that price range.

It reminded me of the HHR - lots of brittle plastic, made obvious by the high beltline and tiny windows. I didn't have to touch much to get the impression of cheapness.

But the halo headlights! Those are cool.

:camarosmile:

[2QuickZ's]

whatever the case, the cars they had on the floor, the big expanses of plastic were badly beat up and hashed, and looked terrible. not befitting of any car in that price range.

I wasn't meaning to imply that what GM is doing is better, only more expensive. Why wouldn't you use a cheaper plastic that customers perceive to be better quality? It makes no sense. It's just another sign that GM "doesn't get it" yet. My guess is that whoever their suppliers are, they haven't figured out how to do mold in color polypro. One big drawback to polypro is that it is expensive to paint because it requires a lot of prep to get the paint to adhere.

[Intrepidation]

buy a new car with all the money involved and you will indeed care if you got your money's worth.

I have ever intention on buying a Camaro new, so you can kindly shove it. If it were aimed at buying a GT or a luxury car sure I'd care more if my ass would feel good rubbing against the lower dash. However I'm buying it for the performance and sophistication it packs.

Really, only the 370Z could outdo it in terms of performance and luxury, but then it also costs a lot more.

Although I will say GM could offer an interior upgrade package like they do with the Corvette for those who just can't stop groping the dash.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I have ever intention on buying a Camaro new, so you can kindly shove it. If it were aimed at buying a GT or a luxury car sure I'd care more if my ass would feel good rubbing against the lower dash. However I'm buying it for the performance and sophistication it packs.

Really, only the 370Z could outdo it in terms of performance and luxury, but then it also costs a lot more.

Although I will say GM could offer an interior upgrade package like they do with the Corvette for those who just can't stop groping the dash.

Exactly. You could get a FWD car, without the performance, but with a nice interior, or you can get a Camaro, with the performance, but the interior is not as good. For some like us, performance wins out over the quality of the interior.

[Intrepidation]

I mean seriously, name one other car that is RWD, has 304 hp, 6-speed manual or automatic, and starts at 23,000.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I mean seriously, name one other car that is RWD, has 304 hp, 6-speed manual or automatic, and starts at 23,000.

Even Hyundai starts at $30,000 for the V6. Would you pay 7,000 to have Hyundai's "better" interior?

[balthazar]

>>"One big drawback to polypro is that it is expensive to paint because it requires a lot of prep to get the paint to adhere."<<

I remember one BMW long-term test w/ pics where the paint was heavily chipping off the interior plastic. Same stuff??

If it's molded in color, why does it need to be painted ??

[CMG]

or you can get a Camaro, with the performance, but the interior is not as good. For some like us, performance wins out over the quality of the interior.

LOL

I get all sorts of these arguments all over the internet.

Take my Dodge buddies, who post about the NEW Challenger's interior being less than opulently stellar, they always compare the NEW Challenger to the OLD Challenger, which a lot of them own and most think is superior....

LOOK AT A 1970 DODGE CHALLENGER INTERIOR!!!!!

For Pete sakes, I can'r tell you how hard we laughed the first 70's Challenger we bought and we looked at the door panels. One huge molded expanse of cheap plastic!

The dashes were cool, lots of stuff was interesting and some stuff downright wild (pistol grips etc) but as far as plastic interiors go Puh-lease!!!!

The newer cars are miles ahead in terms of creature comforts. Performance wise they are nothing to shake a stick at either.

You want a Bentley interior, buy a Bentley! You want a Camaro to have fun cruising in, don't expect Grey Poupon in the limo divider!

:AH-HA_wink:

[CMG]

another issue. mailslot windows and overall in the bathtub/lack of outward visibility.

It's gotta be the biggest drawback of the car, most who don't like it that I have read about blame the rearward visibility as the worst part of the car.

I've never sat in one, and I have a gas pedal in most of my cars to reduce my need to see behind me anyways....

:AH-HA_wink:

haha

[Camino LS6]

LOL

I get all sorts of these arguments all over the internet.

Take my Dodge buddies, who post about the NEW Challenger's interior being less than opulently stellar, they always compare the NEW Challenger to the OLD Challenger, which a lot of them own and most think is superior....

LOOK AT A 1970 DODGE CHALLENGER INTERIOR!!!!!

For Pete sakes, I can'r tell you how hard we laughed the first 70's Challenger we bought and we looked at the door panels. One huge molded expanse of cheap plastic!

The dashes were cool, lots of stuff was interesting and some stuff downright wild (pistol grips etc) but as far as plastic interiors go Puh-lease!!!!

The newer cars are miles ahead in terms of creature comforts. Performance wise they are nothing to shake a stick at either.

You want a Bentley interior, buy a Bentley! You want a Camaro to have fun cruising in, don't expect Grey Poupon in the limo divider!

:AH-HA_wink:

Amen!