Wake UP People!!!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

>>"I'm just not one to go through life paranoid about EVERYTHING and looking over my should over every little thing and taking every conspiracy theory as fact or highly probable."<<

This is the mindset that misses the warning signs.

Do you lock your doors at night, or your car in a parking lot? Is this being diligent, or subscribing to conspiracies?

Perhaps there is not a group specifically targeting your house/car, yet it only takes one to rob either. Never been robbed, so think that's 'proof' it won't happen? Why wait until it does to react to the possibility?

Anyone hear the tale of the ant & the grasshopper ?

How about the one where a major manufacturer abandons the family car in favor of high-profit trucks and agrees to staggering pensions & healthcare... no doubt there was a 'DeSotoFan' back in 1972 who laughed it off when someone suggested things were going to change suddenly and irrevocably in that industry.

Hindsight is 'duh!' but it's foresight that comes out ahead.

If one reads the posts here instead of overreacting to what one thinks they're saying, one should pretty quickily see no one here have even come close to suggesting all conspiracies are true.

But the opposite, dismissive, intentionally-obtuse mindset is just as bad. Haven't we all seen the power-mad politicians lining up their dominoes to fall in favor of whomever gave them big money, all short-term PAC-think instead of long-term national think? Hasn't the unilateral hypocrisy and cronyism alarmed anyone with open eyes? 'Rushrushrush' the 1100-page 'stimulus' bill thru signing when NO ONE has read it all thru?? No agendas there, eh?

Yes, there ARE conspiracies/agendas ("to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or to use such means to accomplish a lawful end" (Websters))... unannounced plans to alter current ways/trends/laws/life, and it's almost always done to feed that insatiable overlord, Greed. How many & where remain a task to reveal, but due diligence, observation & investigation are well-advised defenses.

In other words, it just doesn't feel at all like the right time to bird watch while whistling 'Sunshine on My Shoulder'.

This is called being PROACTIVE instead of REACTIVE.

Personal example: I know that my neighborhood is a dangerous place sometimes. Therefore, I carry my computer bag with me at night (when I get off, from 12am to 4am) with my hand in it's pocket (on a weapon) I also watch the ground (for shadows of people that might be coming at me from all directions)

Am I paranoid? Some might say so... But I'm not so paranoid that I can't function (which is the true meaning of paranoid) But I'll guarantee you one thing. I won't be blind-sided and robbed without one helluva fight because of the proactive safety measures I am taking to try and increase my chances of success or even survival. (Then again, I've always been a very calculated person)

Edited March 25, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Gardening is a fun hobby. However we gave up on sunflowers because every animals would take the flower heads off.

BTW, that would be squirrels...

[Intrepidation]

BTW, that would be squirrels...

Yeah, they are little bastards. We have good luck with tomatoes, zucchini, summer squash, and green beans. We;ve tried pumpkins, watermelons, radishes, and beats over the years but they never did well.

Oh and we have 2 big apple trees.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Ground hogs seem to LOVE squash... I learned that the hard way a couple of years ago.

[Intrepidation]

There's nothing like fresh picked veggies (or fruit) from you back yard.

[Camino LS6]

Those who don't like lima beans have never tasted the homegrown variety.

[Intrepidation]

Those who don't like lima beans have never tasted the homegrown variety.

I don't think I've tried lima beans period.

Nothing beats fresh strawberries.

[Camino LS6]

Nothing beats fresh strawberries.

Mmmmm, sun-warmed!

[Intrepidation]

There's a farm in North Andover (a twin over) that has strawberry picking events where you can go out and pick your own. I went for the first time last year. It was a lot of fun. It's very popular apparently.

[deftonesfan867]

Pumpkins and Watermelons prefer soft soil like sand Kimura.

[Intrepidation]

Pumpkins and Watermelons prefer soft soil like sand Kimura.

Ah. I do remember we got a few watermelons out the one year we tried them, but I forget if we got any pumpkins.

[ShadowDog]

There's nothing like fresh picked veggies (or fruit) from you back yard.

Fresh-washed raw spinach, raspberries, prune plums, apples, strawberries and sweet peas right off the vine. You're right. There's nothing like it. There's plenty of other fruits and veggies we grow annually, but these are my personal favorites.

[Sixty8panther]

I've been saying for years that we were on the verge of a massive

erosion in the middle class here in the USA. Outsourcing has been

a pebble in my shoe since I was old enough to understand the most

basic ideas of Macro Economics.

I was called paranoid, professors t my college would argue that

the FDIC is your FRIEND, they're what is going to prevent another

1929 from ever happening....

and here we are in 2009, on the radio, TV, internet & newspapers

the constant drumbeat is:

"America is going through a permanent change... not for the better"

but sadly most of you are still asleep.

Balthy: Your analogy was apt, thanks.

[Intrepidation]

Fresh-washed raw spinach, raspberries, prune plums, apples, strawberries and sweet peas right off the vine. You're right. There's nothing like it. There's plenty of other fruits and veggies we grow annually, but these are my personal favorites.

We don't have the yard space for a large garden sadly, but on the bright side there's a farmer's market (hat's been there for years) that sells fresh goods in the late summer and fall. Love going there.

Fresh corn!

[Croc]

laws could easily be put in place to prevent farmer's markets..... they don't have to buy them up..... or even to make home gardens illegal (without strict proper food safety measures) . please think a little more.

Wrong. Not in California, which is where I live. It would not happen under any circumstances. No way in hell. As I said, at the very least, I won't be affected out here, and by default the entire premise is false since the whole world's food supply would clearly include anything grown in CA.

[Sixty8panther]

Croc:

Your head is DEEP in the sand....

[Croc]

Croc:

Your head is DEEP in the sand....

No, not at all. What you fail to take into account is that the mentality out here is very likely completely different than the mentality in your locale. See, out here, there is a very large sustainable movement. Farmer's markets are growing in number; the health-conscious love the organic meat and produce, and the eco-conscious love that the food they buy wasn't flown in from Chile or El Salvadore on airplanes that spewed greenhouse gasses into the most vulnerable layer of ozone. Even local business interests are thrilled, as the Santa Monica Farmer's Market brings many people to the Third Street Promenade and its shops and restaurants. Just adjacent to the Miracle Mile District is The Grove at Farmers Market, developed by Caruso Affiliates, which is a popular outdoor mall that, as the name suggests, contains a farmer's market--an extremely popular farmer's market--that drives a lot of retail traffic in the area.

As a result of the popularity of both of these farmer's markets--and trust me there are many, many more than just these two--I can't really see how anyone could possibly take them away. Business interests love them, health nuts love them, greenies love them...and therefore the politicians love them. Any politician who tries to remove them would be recalled--look up Gray Davis if you think Californians are politically complacent. Furthermore, the populist-era governmental structure essentially prevents Los Angeles from eliminating them; the mayor has very little power, but the city council does...except that the councilmembers focus on their little feifdoms and generally vote on issues in one district the same way as the representative for that district does. Since farmer's markets are in almost every district, all the separately-elected councilmembers would have to be in on this big grand conspiracy in order to ban the markets, and so would all the judges in California because the resulting lawsuits of such an act would flood the legal system. Then, the conspiracy would have to squash any and all voter referendums and constitutional changes (state constitution) proposed by the outraged greenies, health nuts, Hollywood celebrities, etc. that would likely pass handily. Of course, this would be never-ending until the legislation were revoked as all the people "not paying attention" as you refer to them would realize after it is "too late" what the grand scheme is...and it really wouldn't be too late as a simple citizen-initiated referrendum on the ballot would reinstate local farmers markets, thusly blowing a hole in your cute little "theory."

So please, tell me how deep my head is in the sand--I've just delineated the social, economic, environmental, and political reasons why your paranoid delusion will not happen in Los Angeles, nullifying your little "theory."

[loki]

Croc... all it would take is an FDA "law"... california = overruled/pwd.

that doesn't mean it would be easy to enforce...

[Justin Bimmer]

Couple things on Farmer's Markets. In Fresno, off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 that we have here. Population 500,000 + metro area. Right now there is this big fight going on right now about a community garden where families are able to grow things on city property and the city wants to build a police substation there. The residents were able to negotiate a new location for the garden on city property when it comes time to build the substation.

As to the FDA rule. Last time I checked, the Supreme Court and the DEA and the ATF and FBI and whatever else say medical marijuana is illegal. It doesn't seem to get enforced here at all in CA.

[Drew Dowdell]

I've been saying for years that we were on the verge of a massive

erosion in the middle class here in the USA. Outsourcing has been

a pebble in my shoe since I was old enough to understand the most

basic ideas of Macro Economics.

I was called paranoid, professors t my college would argue that

the FDIC is your FRIEND, they're what is going to prevent another

1929 from ever happening....

and here we are in 2009, on the radio, TV, internet & newspapers

the constant drumbeat is:

"America is going through a permanent change... not for the better"

but sadly most of you are still asleep.

Balthy: Your analogy was apt, thanks.

The FDIC has nothing to do with what is going on and could never have done anything to stop it. We are deglobalizing. The turmoil happening right now is the explosive unwinding of a business model that cannot be sustained by oil. AIG, bad mortgages, high unemployement, bank failures are not the causes of this but the symptoms.

The Saudis, the Russians, the Venezuelans, the Mexicans all have falling output of oil. We have no alternative infrastructure in sight. Energy prices are down right now because factories are idle and not shipping anything. Energy prices are not going to stay down. This is the festering cancer waiting to come out of remission just as soon as the economy starts to turn around.

As a kid I had a favorite National Geographic betamax tape called Love those Trains, that I would watch over and over. In part of the story, they follow a box car of lettuce that is picked in Southern California and finally delivered to a PTA luncheon in Boston. While I loved watching the trains, even as a kid I thought it was rather silly to ship lettuce from California to Boston. Even if Massachusetts couldn't grow their own lettuce, I was sitting in the Garden State of New Jersey.... surely we had enough lettuce that we could ship ours to Boston instead.

We're going to be forced to move to a more locally produced model of consumption. This will be a permanent change unless we develop and deploy an alternative fuel right now.

[Camino LS6]

We're going to be forced to move to a more locally produced model of consumption. This will be a permanent change unless we develop and deploy an alternative fuel right now.

I would like to see both happen.

The co-dependency between nations these days has borne ugly fruit.

[Croc]

Croc... all it would take is an FDA "law"... california = overruled/pwd.

that doesn't mean it would be easy to enforce...

Not really. There are federal laws about marijuana, and let me tell you that hasn't stopped anything/anybody in California. The pot clubs are open to anyone, medical or non-medical reasons--you just have to show your driver's license and you're put in the system--which is why I will let some of my acquaintances do that, but would never do it myself.

Anyway, so the FDA does something--let's assume that it actually happens. Then what? Plenty of lawsuits. Every judge would have to be in on the conspiracy for this to fly, and the probabilities are infinitessimal.

[Satty]

Mah fud, it planz wurld dominashon.

NOM NOM NOM

Now with visuals!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The FDIC has nothing to do with what is going on and could never have done anything to stop it. We are deglobalizing. The turmoil happening right now is the explosive unwinding of a business model that cannot be sustained by oil. AIG, bad mortgages, high unemployement, bank failures are not the causes of this but the symptoms.

The Saudis, the Russians, the Venezuelans, the Mexicans all have falling output of oil. We have no alternative infrastructure in sight. Energy prices are down right now because factories are idle and not shipping anything. Energy prices are not going to stay down. This is the festering cancer waiting to come out of remission just as soon as the economy starts to turn around.

As a kid I had a favorite National Geographic betamax tape called Love those Trains, that I would watch over and over. In part of the story, they follow a box car of lettuce that is picked in Southern California and finally delivered to a PTA luncheon in Boston. While I loved watching the trains, even as a kid I thought it was rather silly to ship lettuce from California to Boston. Even if Massachusetts couldn't grow their own lettuce, I was sitting in the Garden State of New Jersey.... surely we had enough lettuce that we could ship ours to Boston instead.

We're going to be forced to move to a more locally produced model of consumption. This will be a permanent change unless we develop and deploy an alternative fuel right now.

+1

Which is why I always LAUGHED at the $10/gallon fuel "scare" stories.

You'll never see that happen because our society cannot sustain it. The economy will continue to peak and crash so long as overpopulation continues to happen and alternatives aren't developed.

Eventually, people will grow desperate. At which point, the price of fuel will be the LEAST of your concerns. (theft, violence and war will consume us all)

Edited March 26, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Sixty8panther]

Oldsmoboi:

I both agree with many of your points and violently Disagree with others.

If you see no problem with our worthless paper money & the FDIC than at least

to a degree you're fooling yourself.

:twocents:

[Sixty8panther]

Back to the topic at hand:

Discuss.

----

I'll accept an apology from you, Croc when "task forces" start

closing & raiding farms like the BATF did in Waco Texas to a

cult just about 16 years ago. Do I like cults? NO. But do I like

the Government killing 80 people, many women & children to

prove a point & demonstrate their "leg breaking capability"?

Well, you know damn well I don't.

[loki]

Back to the topic at hand:

Discuss.

not surprising at all...

[Satty]

In other news, robots will soon become sentient. They will sit on your couch and drink your beer while watching soap operas. I know this is a fact because I once watched Futurama.

[Sixty8panther]

In other news, robots will soon become sentient. They will sit on your couch and drink your beer while watching soap operas. I know this is a fact because I once watched Futurama.

If your brain ever experienced a moment of non-sarcasm would

you just suddenly cease to exist? I mean really? Maye it would

be like Nirvana...? You'd leave this & all existence altogether.

[Satty]

I'm ever so sorry that I disrupted your thread, which is absolutely vital to the current and all future generations. This thread deserves better, because it is absolutely right on every measure, there is nothing infallible about any of this at all.

[Sixty8panther]

I'm ever so sorry that I disrupted your thread, which is absolutely vital to the current and all future generations. This thread deserves better, because it is absolutely right on every measure, there is nothing infallible about any of this at all.

You had nothing to contribute... oh well. Move on.

I'm just saying your incessant stupidity & toilet

humor gets old after a while.

If had $0.10 for every idiotic non-sequitur you

post on C&G I'd have enough money to convert

every '10 Camaro in existence into a hardtop. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited April 6, 2009 by Sixty8panther

[Robert Hall]

In other news, robots will soon become sentient. They will sit on your couch and drink your beer while watching soap operas. I know this is a fact because I once watched Futurama.

I don't fear robots like Bender. It's the robots from Cyberdyne.Skynet and those darn T-800s, T-1000s...those robots, I worry about. Google is the realization of Cyberdyne; they are going to build Skynet in the 'cloud'.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'll take a Caprica 6 please ...

[Intrepidation]

You had nothing to contribute... oh well. Move on.

If had $0.10 for every idiotic non-sequitur you

post on C&G I'd have enough money to convert

every '10 Camaro in existence into a hardtop. :AH-HA_wink:

Dude, you realize that very post could be turned around and applied to you right? Do you know how many threads you've disturbed with OMFG IT'S GOTZ A B-PILLARZ AND HAZ FWD SO I MUST BITCH ABOUT IT AND RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT THEY ARE SOMEHOW INFERIOR!#!~#$@~!@!# @#$@!#!~~!~!~!!!~!~!~~~!!!!!!!!!!!111`111ELEVENTY!~@!~~~!@!111

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Uhh, the problem with this argument is, oh yeah, some corporation will find that if they position themselves as "the good guy" that people will be willing to pay a bit more for their product.

Thereby bringing the "corporate control" by the evil corporations agenda down by the "white hat" corporation.

It is irrelevant that the "white hat" corporation is reaping record profits through all of this.

Oh yeah, and people can always start growing victory gardens again. I mean sure corporations can control this by selling people seeds that do not produce viable seeds that require them to buy more seeds (this is common when farmers buy seeds), but there will always be another company who will recognize that they can sell seeds that DO bear viable seeds for a LOT of money because people will pay for them. Its not a sustainable business plan, but it will reap enormous return on investment for a while (which will then let them set out for other markets).

People always forget that corporations build off of public sentiment because that's how they make more money.

Hell, look at Ben & Jerrys. A couple of hippies set out to make "the peoples ice cream," and although they perhaps failed in that objective, they set out to be a very community oriented company. People turned out to be more than willing to pay premium prices for ice cream because it came from a "responsible" corporate citizen. Although perhaps leaderships was somewhat lacking in their expansionary goals, the point remained that they were very profitable. Profitable enough to the point that they were acquired for very large sums of money by a company that few would see as community oriented. However they let their Ben & Jerrys subsidiary be a good corporate citizen because they realize that is a large part of why people buy Ben & Jerrys ice cream - which helps their bottom line.

Since we, as Americans, believe (or used to anyways) in competition, we established Anti-Trust laws to ensure that no single company can ever attain a monopoly on a market. So long as a corporation, or group of corporations, do not establish a monopoly on a market, such fears are unfounded. Although given the course of the US government over the past century, these fears may be growing; especially considering there is no real competition to the government.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Croc]

I'll accept an apology from you, Croc when "task forces" start

closing & raiding farms like the BATF did in Waco Texas to a

cult just about 16 years ago. Do I like cults? NO. But do I like

the Government killing 80 people, many women & children to

prove a point & demonstrate their "leg breaking capability"?

Well, you know damn well I don't.

Apology for what? For detailing to you in a way you should be able to comprehend why your conspiracy theory isn't going to come through? Great job, you found some chick on the internet speaking a bunch of nonsense. YEAH! YOU'RE AWESOME!

Seriously, where is a credible source? And it still doesn't matter because the entire world'd food supply can't be taken over if California's is not, and I've already explained in excruciating detail WHY it could not happen here.

You need a hobby. And WTF does Waco have to do with this?

[Satty]

Here are 19 pictures of cars that have nothing to do with anything.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Dude satty, i already posted a random picture montage in another thread.

Be original man.

But that simulated wood car kicks ass!

Edited April 6, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Satty]

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

I see your Hello Kitty and raise you a Hello Kitty rifle.

Putting hello kitty stickers on your rifle gives it +15 damage.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Satty]

If had $0.10 for every idiotic non-sequitur you

post on C&G I'd have enough money to convert

every '10 Camaro in existence into a hardtop. :AH-HA_wink:

You really think $726.40 (my current post count*.1) is going to do it? Or is this more of your fuzzy math, like when you said it would only cost GM $50,000 to make the Camaro a hardtop?

[Satty]

Putting hello kitty stickers on your rifle gives it +15 damage.

What does that mean for Hello Kitty condoms?

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

What does that mean for Hello Kitty condoms?

+15 endurance?

[Robert Hall]

68 needs this:

AFDB!

[loki]

Apology for what? For detailing to you in a way you should be able to comprehend why your conspiracy theory isn't going to come through? Great job, you found some chick on the internet speaking a bunch of nonsense. YEAH! YOU'RE AWESOME!

Seriously, where is a credible source? And it still doesn't matter because the entire world'd food supply can't be taken over if California's is not, and I've already explained in excruciating detail WHY it could not happen here.

You need a hobby. And WTF does Waco have to do with this?

how can it be a conspiracy if the laws are being proposed? i would think as soon as they are proposed it is then not a conspiracy anymore, it is public. unless you're insinuating that the government is not a public affairs sort of thing, which i don't think you are.

[Intrepidation]

I see your Hello Kitty and raise you giant robot condoms:

[Croc]

how can it be a conspiracy if the laws are being proposed? i would think as soon as they are proposed it is then not a conspiracy anymore, it is public. unless you're insinuating that the government is not a public affairs sort of thing, which i don't think you are.

Anyone can propose a stupid law. Haven't you ever heard of the laws in many of the Eastern states that prohibit things like carrying an ice cream cone in your pocket?

And yes, this WOULD be a conspiracy, since it would take conspiring and large amounts of collusion to pull off.

[loki]

Anyone can propose a stupid law. Haven't you ever heard of the laws in many of the Eastern states that prohibit things like carrying an ice cream cone in your pocket?

And yes, this WOULD be a conspiracy, since it would take conspiring and large amounts of collusion to pull off.

...but all it has to do is get stuck on something , like the budget, or something "more immediatly needed", like a "stimulus bill" (that will only give out 10% of it in the first year) now a days... things like that are opportunities for these wacko bills to get attached.

more generally about how this thread has gone...I'm not surprised, but i'm also dismayed at how how some people are treating 68. he's trying to be patriotic, in the words of "Mark Twain":"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

[Robert Hall]

more generally about how this thread has gone...I'm not surprised, but i'm also dismayed at how how some people are treating 68. he's trying to be patriotic, in the words of "Mark Twain":"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

There is a significant difference between being patriotic and ranting like a delusional paranoid or a late night talk radio loony.

Edited April 6, 2009 by moltar

[Camino LS6]

more generally about how this thread has gone...I'm not surprised, but i'm also dismayed at how how some people are treating 68. he's trying to be patriotic, in the words of "Mark Twain":"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

I'm a bit dismayed as well.

So much so, in fact, that I've considered closing this thread over it.

Let's ease up on the character assassination, shall we?