When is Buick's turn?

[buickguy]

Check out the article about Saab getting all these new products. When do think it will be Buick's turn?

[ehaase]

Maybe 2010, if GM doesn't declare bankruptcy. Until then, you will probably have to be happy with LaCrosse, Lucerne, and Enclave. If GM does declare bankruptcy, I wouldn't be surprised to see Buick die.

[wildcat]

I'm counting on being very happy with a Buick Enclave (though I wish I could see what they have planned as a Buick Theta before I buy).

[ehaase]

I don't see any Buick Theta listed here - http://www3.sympatico.ca/tedkrygier/future.htm -

[wildcat]

With all due respect, I think Ted's list is, in places, out of date. The Buick Theta is something like GMT-165 (?), I forget exactly. Ted's list also, recently at least, still listed GMX-022 Buick Kappa as active. EDIT: I now see that Ted updated his site as of Nov. 5, 2005, but it still doesn't list the Buick Theta and still shows a Buick Kappa as an active program. Nonetheless, I very much appreciate that there's anything like this list out there for us to consult. I've asked more than once for a similar list to be posted at C&G (or even for the platform info to be updated), but to no avail. Thank you, Ted. Edited November 11, 2005 by wildcat

[rivieraranch]

Maybe 2010, if GM doesn't declare bankruptcy.  Until then, you will probably have to be happy with LaCrosse, Lucerne, and Enclave.  If GM does declare bankruptcy, I wouldn't be surprised to see Buick die.

[post="41939"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They should kill off Saturn and GMC before looking at Buick.

[Bimmer325]

Regardless of what GM has said in regards to the issue, I wouldn't expect Buick to be around beyond decade's end.

[Northstar]

If the Lucerne and Enclave don't do well for Buick, it may be gone at the end of their lifecycles, but I have a feeling they'll do well and Buick will stick around. As for Buick's turn? It's kind of been happening over the past year or so and will continue until the Enclave. Then we'll probably have to wait a while for the next LaCrosse and RWD sedan/coupe/Velite. Buick got the LaCrosse for MY 2005, the Terraza for MY 2005 (granted it doesn't really count), Lucerne for MY 2006, and Enclave for MY 2007. It's not like they haven't gotten anything or aren't going to get anything.

[Bimmer325]

Unfortunately, I think the past three or so years was Buick's turn. :(

[Cadillacfan]

Well, with the Buick, Pontiac, and GMC brands merging into one dealership in the near future, there's no longer a need for a full-line of cars and trucks. Having so many vehicles for each brand will cause a lot of buyer confusion. My Predictions mixed with Fact: The Rainier and Terraza will be gone soon leaving Buick with 3 vehicles to focus on rather then 7. I find that to be more promising since each vehicle will have more money devoted to it and hopefully, higher quality and style. Also, expect Pontiac to be cut back to just sporty, affordable cars. We already know the bonnie is dead as well as the Sunfire. Though, I think we can expect the Grand Prix saying bye bye or at least moving to a RWD platform( hoping for Zeta to save the day) I can't wait for the Torrent to go. The Vibe will stay but I don't think Toyota and GM will continue to share the NUMMI plant for much longer. There is no need for it on both sides. It might very well move to the delta platform. GMC.. well, that's tricky. I have no idea on what GM will do with GMC. They have no clear plan with that brand in my opinion. I was thinking they'd keep this brand as the only Body on Frame SUV brand and then slowly phase out the SUVs over a long period of time but now that it's getting a crossover, I have no clue.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

These cars will kill GMC-or at least ruin their credibility as a TRUCK maker-I'd rather see them go to Buick for more appropriate placing. I still haven't seen a Lucerne on the road and since I don't much go that way, I haven't seen one last I checked at the dealer either. This Enclave better be good or Buick's as screwed as Lincoln. I'd love to see Buick take on Chrysler and Volkswagen, but it looks like GM doesn't want that to happen.

[wildcat]

Does anyone think that if one of the three brands fail, GM will chuck all three? For instance, if Buick failed, they wouldn't then make a luxurious, big Pontiac, right? Does anyone think GM grouped them together to make it easy to lop off, should they declare bankruptcy?

[ehaase]

I fully support selling Theta crossovers as GMC's rather than Buicks or Pontiacs. Because of GMC's positive image, the crossovers will sell much better - especially among young buyers - as GMC's than as Buicks or Pontiacs. I hope that the Enclave sells well, but I don't know if buyers are willing to give Buick a chance.

[ehaase]

Does anyone think that if one of the three brands fail, GM will chuck all three?  For instance, if Buick failed, they wouldn't then make a luxurious, big Pontiac, right?  Does anyone think GM grouped them together to make it easy to lop off, should they declare bankruptcy?

[post="42087"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If GM declares bankruptcy, I expect GM will be down to Chevrolet, Cadillac, and maybe GMC (since it is GM's second highest selling division) and maybe Hummer. I expect that Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, and Saab will all die.

[wildcat]

Here's the kind of press statement that should make a Buick fan's blood boil. It is from a Detroit News article by Brett Clanton, titled "Saab aims to raise its profile: GM unit plans aggressive role in upscale car market."

"General Motors Corps upscale Saab brand wants to become a bigger player in the premium car market [ <_< premium was what they used to call Buick ] . . . Saab plans to expand its lineup by at least two more models, double its U.S. sales by decade's end and raise awareness of the brand through advertising [ :angry: GM never makes some future prediction like this for Buick ] . . . Although GM is in the throes of a turnaround, Saab officials said the brand will be a priority and that none of its future vehicle programs will be in jeopardy as the automaker sheds costs [ :o so what does that silently imply? that Buick's miniscule 3-vehicle line-up is or will be in jeopardy? ]

[ehaase]

I read a few weeks ago that some financial analysts think that Kirk Kerkorian will send Saab packing (Hummer too) if he ever gets more control over GM. Most of us here like Buick, but its image as an old persons car or as nothing different from a Chevrolet is hard to shake.

[wildcat]

But GM can change that with one vehicle, if they want. One of those new Saturns could easily have been a Buick.

ehaase: Do you think if sales of the Lucerne and Enclave were disappointing, GM would drop just Buick? Are they prepping Saab to take Buick's place (similar to how some have said Saturn has taken Oldsmobile's place)?

As I said elsewhere on this board, I'm hoping to be very happy with a Buick Enclave.

[ehaase]

ehaase: Do you think if sales of the Lucerne and Enclave were disappointing, GM would drop just Buick?  Are they prepping Saab to take Buick's place (similar to how some have said Saturn has taken Oldsmobile's place)?  

[post="42114"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Since Buick is doing well in China, I don't know if GM would drop Buick in the U.S., even if Enclave and Lucerne flop.

I can't see Saab taking Buick's place. I wouldn't cry if GM sold or discontinued Saab. Edited November 12, 2005 by ehaase

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I'd love to see Saab's wild stylingh potential as seen in computer drawings shown last or earlier this year of what's supposed to be the next (Epsilon II) 9-5, if that program is still on. And they've had nice concepts like the 2002 (?) 9-X and 2003 9-3 SportWagon (and its 2006 production model), yet its going to waste with a low-rider Bravada/Rainier clone and some cramped, dated-looking, overpriced Subaru Impreza clone. If Saab doesn't pull up anything innovative looking, dump it. I'd hate to see it go to waste, and I hate seeing Pontiac and Buick going to waste as well. I and many others have visions for them that could be workable if GM bothered to look and try. However, it doesn't look like that's happening (for Buick anyway, and GMC's truck credibility looks like it might be going down the drain like Jeep), and I worry about Pontiac's future too. They've not only lost product, but all there is in the lineup is a vastly-underdone G6, the useless rebadge Torrent, and the unnecessary-unless-its-made-sporty Montana SV6. Grand Prix is stylish and performance-oriented (despite front-wheel-drive) though is pricey and cramped and not better than a Dodge Charger, and Solstice from pictures and buzz looks like a real winner. That's a total of two bright spots, and that's not enough.

[91z4me]

There is some VERY wild speculation and also some crazy ideas being thrown around in here. Here are some things to remember. 1 GMC is GMs second highest selling division. All of its products are rebadges of high volume Chevy trucks. AKA GMC is VERY secure in its place. 2 Buick has the highest customer loyalty of any Carline in production. It is also EXTREMELY highly reguarded in quality. It may have an old man's stigma but Buick isn't going anywhere Buick just got like $3 Billion to invest in new products a year or so ago. 3 SAAB may, for the first time since GM has held the name, make a profit this year. SAAB's development costs are very little right now. They have the 9-5 which is older than dirt, the 9-2x which is a Subaru rebadge, the 9-7 a GMT360 rebadge, and the 9-3 an Epsilon that starts above $30K. Basically they have a REALLY cheap lineup. But I do think that SAAB could and IMO should disappear from the US. SAAB and Saturn will be going after the same buyers in a few years and I feel as though those resources are better served by investing into core brands.

[ehaase]

Dreaming about new Pontiacs, Buicks, and Saabs is difficult for me after reading all of GM's financial woes. Hopefully the new GMT900's will generate cash to give GM money to develop new products.

[VenSeattle]

Everything indicates that the $3 Billion investment allocated for Buick has been cancelled. GM never officially announced that it was cancelled, but the announcements that have followed since the "huge investment" speech seem to spell that out:

1) Velite canceled/shelved
2) Buick reduced from a full line-up (6-7 vehicles) to a niche line-up (3-4).
3) Buick has been consolidated into Pontiac-GMC dealers.
4) Only official "new" product coming is the Enclave which has been in the works since the Lambda platform started development (late 1990's/early 2000's)

So, it has now been about 2 years since the "$3-billion investment" announcement (Feb/04), and no sign of it.