Can New Chevy Camaro Muscle Up Sales?

[Intrepidation]

On that subject... those interiors are horrible! Saying that the Camaro's interior isn't that bad buy comparing it to the couldn't-be-any-uglier Charger and Mustang interiors doesn't say much. Chrysler can't even remember what it was like to have a clue about interiors. And what is with Ford? Are they putting the same ugly door on every vehicle they sell? You'd think if you were going to standardize on something you'd try to make it not ugly. It is strange times when Hyundai sports the best interior.

O RLY?

Chrysler can't remember and that's why the Ram has arguably the nicest in class?

This entire statement is one of the worst I've seen from you, and usually they are pretty good even if we don't agreed on them all the time. All of it is purely subjective and much of it is false.

[Cory Wolfe]

O RLY?

Chrysler can't remember and that's why the Ram has arguably the nicest in class?

This entire statement is one of the worst I've seen from you. All of it is purely subjective and much of it is false.

I can't say I disagree with him. Chrysler hasn't exactly had decent interiors the past 5 years.

[Intrepidation]

LX cars have decent interior (and the Challenger and Charger are LX, which he was comparing) The new Mustang has a very nice interior. The Ram is a sign of things to come, and it's, as I just said, arguably best in class.

There was also the Pacfica which had a nice interior. Has Chrysler turned out cheap dollar store interiors? You bet. However it's not universal. Making that assumption will get you called out.

Then there's that door panel remark.

Yeah, they look totally the same.

[Intrepidation]

On that subject... those interiors are horrible! Saying that the Camaro's interior isn't that bad buy comparing it to the couldn't-be-any-uglier Charger and Mustang interiors doesn't say much.

What is so ugly about this? It's nothing mind blowing but I don't see anything ugly about it.

[hyperv6]

Can't go along with all of these assumptions.

It is your right to be wrong! LOL!

Better look around as nothing is selling right now and things do not look good for the near future.

The Camaro will sell good in the first and part of the second year due to demand form long time fans who have waited.

But Chevy has already lost many who did not wait or can even afford to buy a car now with market losses.

Lets face it as now is the best time in the world to buy a car and I have 10,000 Hondas sitting at a old Ford plant near by because they can't give them away. Even Mustang sales are down and GT prices are slashed.

Nothing personel toward the Camaro as it is just the market and economy. Things will not get better till the credit market is fixed and the present adminstration finally does something other than spend money or talk to Oprah about talking up d+Detroit. I hope they have a better plan [as they call it ] than that.

Even Scott stated last week he hopes he has a job in the future.

And for what it is worth the Challangers interior is horrid. The dash just does not fit the cars image. and it has a very large blind spot to the right rear. The leather feels good but the plastic is the worst.

Just like the SRT 4 I got in. The interior look cheap and lots of bad plastic but the seats were nice.

Edited March 17, 2009 by hyperv6

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

This is much closer to my way of thinking on the topic. Both the Camaro and the Volt are ALL Chevy, and they manage to be impressive at the same time. Both cars follow their own path honestly and don't pander to groupthink.

More, please.

Chevrolet can be an anomaly in the car market. They are so big and so broad that they can 'justify' selling anything in the eyes of the consumer because they HAVE been all things to all people at some point in time.

What other brand could possibly sell $100,000 Corvettes next to $10,000 Aveos? What other brand could spearhead the future of automotive technology, the Volt, while at the same time, selling some of the biggest (saleswise) truck brands in the market?

Think about this for a second: In the 90's, by some accounts, Chevrolet was the BEST SELLING luxury automaker in america, simply because they moved so many trucks and SUVs at MSRPs north of $35-45,000 (remember, this was in the 90's)

I can't remember where that little nugget came from, but I actually remember reading it just like that.

This PROVEN ability to be all things to all people CAN be GM's saving grace so long as it fuels Chevy with the products it needs and doesn't tarnish the brands image (even more, to some) Chevrolet can be the powerhouse, while all of the other brands can either work to grow or occupy niches.

As for young people buying domestics. Even the Malibu is doing well. I know a 29y/o who is shopping for a replacement for his 250k mile Maxima. Ten months ago, he'd never even consider a domestic, but last week he came to me to ask about the Malibu since he loves the new look.

Some studies have shown that 1) young people don't have the built in anti-Detroit bias that the boomers and to some extent Gen Xers have and 2) many young people actually trust Chevrolet and Ford over the imports.

Now, whether that will remain given the boomer and Gen Xer media tirade against Detroit and the constant talk of bankruptcy, remains to be seen.

for what people pay for camrys the g8 is a better buy. once the g8 gets the DI v6 and 6 pot, it will be the g8 to get.

I agree... But at the same time, do you really expect to see the Camry demographic cross shopping these cars without a MAJOR marketing push and a MAJOR change of heart?

The LX cars, IMO, were an exception, because they enjoyed SO MUCH positive exposure that it became "cool" to trade a Camry or other appliance for these cars. But under normal circumstances, I just don't see a CR humping, Toyota loving Camry driver even looking at a "historic muscle car nameplate" from an "old line Detroit manufacturer"

Does that mean the eventual end of the road for this type of car? Absolutely not! As long as the product doesn't wither, there will always be people that want this sort of thing. However, I don't think you'll ever see 60s or 70s sales numbers again.

RE: THE INTERIORS...

I just don't see what the big deal is...

Are you people averse to SOMETHING DIFFERENT?!?! Because that's what it seems like. I personally, do not want a 'sedan sedate' interior in my Camaro, or Mustang (which, BTW, the 2010 looks very impressive)

It's not a damn Cadillac, it's a Camaro or a Charger (You know, the cars that a lot of you stereotype white trash people in)

And if you want to start talking import interface and that being the kill all/be all for sales, then why is the new Z car from Nissan such a hit. It's interior is horrible. In fact, why is Nissan -- the supposed new Pontiac of mainstream brands and self described "performance" brand, doing SO WELL with it's years of horrible interiors?

Edited March 17, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Camino LS6]

It is your right to be wrong! LOL!

Better look around as nothing is selling right now and things do not look good for the near future.

The Camaro will sell good in the first and part of the second year due to demand form long time fans who have waited.

But Chevy has already lost many who did not wait or can even afford to buy a car now with market losses.

Lets face it as now is the best time in the world to buy a car and I have 10,000 Hondas sitting at a old Ford plant near by because they can't give them away. Even Mustang sales are down and GT prices are slashed.

Nothing personel toward the Camaro as it is just the market and economy. Things will not get better till the credit market is fixed and the present adminstration finally does something other than spend money or talk to Oprah about talking up d+Detroit. I hope they have a better plan [as they call it ] than that.

Even Scott stated last week he hopes he has a job in the future.

And for what it is worth the Challangers interior is horrid. The dash just does not fit the cars image. and it has a very large blind spot to the right rear. The leather feels good but the plastic is the worst.

Just like the SRT 4 I got in. The interior look cheap and lots of bad plastic but the seats were nice.

None of which supports the notion of GM making more "me too" cars, nor does it call into question any particular type of car. As you said, nothing is selling (Camaro and G8 excepted), so why should GM follow the same tired old mantra of "chasing the Japanese" ? It has never worked, and it won't work now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

None of which supports the notion of GM making more "me too" cars, nor does it call into question any particular type of car. As you said, nothing is selling (Camaro and G8 excepted), so why should GM follow the same tired old mantra of "chasing the Japanese" ? It has never worked, and it won't work now.

Agreed...

The consumer is too smart for that. They know what "GM" means and they know it isn't a me too Japanese wannabe.

[SAmadei]

What is so ugly about this? It's nothing mind blowing but I don't see anything ugly about it.

I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a bunch about interiors. IMHO, most interiors are just fine.

For me, space is the biggest luxury in an interior. Look and basic functionality comes next. So I like all sorts of interiors the general critics hate. I like the interior on the '89 G25 Van. I really like the '69 Firebird and Camaro interiors. I even like the '80s interiors full of fuzzy cloth.

This is not to say I don't like modern interiors. I like quite a few of them, but a lot of them, to me, look all the same. So much R&D money has gone into them that they are generally thought out well enough, that comparing cars in similar classes is real nit picking.

Everyone talks of texture. I find most textures to me fine... metal, plastic or fuzzy fabric. My only gripe is the overuse of rubbery parts. This is one thing I don't like in the last Grand Prix... too rubbery. I like the plastic dash in the '99 Bonneville better... or even the '04 Corolla better.

While I like the feel of GM interiors, Chrysler and Ford interiors are not awful. The 300M had a nice interior. So did the Grand Marquis I rented. OTOH, Chevy had the '80s "mushrooming out of the dashboard" instrument panel which I didn't care for.

Worst interior... Chevette was pretty bad... but the worst was the old Renault Encore. The French can't design a interior.

[6t5frlane]

After the initial excitement/buying binge wears off, this interior is going to be a serious problem for Camaro sales.

X2 Yeah thats pretty bad

[hyperv6]

None of which supports the notion of GM making more "me too" cars, nor does it call into question any particular type of car. As you said, nothing is selling (Camaro and G8 excepted), so why should GM follow the same tired old mantra of "chasing the Japanese" ? It has never worked, and it won't work now.

Camaino please get the book Why GM Matters that just came out.

It is a good read and it shows how GM in many ways are trying to beat the imports not just in quality and acceptance but in styling.

The ways GM is working hard to meet or match Toyota is in MFG.

The Volt is a good example of GM not just trying to make a Prius copy as Honda did.

[Lamar]

My two cents as it pertains to the interior of the Camaro:

I'm not so much a fan of how it looks (the chunkiness, really). However, if it is so highly functional that it will allow me to attend perfectly to the task at hand -- piloting the car -- then I can easily overlook the design.

Someone earlier mentioned that both the Camaro and Mustang sold well during an economic downturn in the US. Are we seeing everything old become new again in more ways than one?

[Camino LS6]

Someone earlier mentioned that both the Camaro and Mustang sold well during an economic downturn in the US. Are we seeing everything old become new again in more ways than one?

Could well be.

And the V6 is positioned nicely for that.

[Robert Hall]

I just hope the Camaro interior is offered in colors besides gray...I despise cheap plastic gray interiors..

[cavalier36]

Now one of my brothers wants one. He's about 92% committed to ordering one and suddenly, as opposed to two weeks ago, the dealers are brokering these as though they were wrought from 24k gold.

I know that the game is afoot here. Some dealers are not asking for a premium and some are. As high as 5 Grand. I tell them: Wait until the pipeline's full and by Thanksgiving the tune will be a little different.

if a dealer wanted a "premium" over sticker. I would ask them.. Okay when I bring this car back in three years I want you to give me the amount of the premium over what the car is worth since you are gouging me now.

[Camino LS6]

I just hope the Camaro interior is offered in colors besides gray...I despise cheap plastic gray interiors..

It is.

[Chevy Nick]

I had this thought today as I was driving around in Houston. Could buying a domestic somehow be a sort of new "trendy" thing with the 18-34 crowd again? I seem to be seeing more new domestics than normal - mostly trucks and SUV's of course, but they do seem to be holding their own. And the drivers are young too.

As a 25 year old, I can confirm that you are on to something. Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura have developed a nice reputation as the vehicle of choice for the 50+ crowd. For the 18-30 crowd, we see the brands differently than an older demographic. I work with a bunch of young Soldiers, and I can tell you that domestics are offering quite a few 'cool' cars. Mustang, Charger, Camaro, CTS, Cobalt/HHR Turbo, Challenger are all very well perceived by people my age.

[Satty]

I'm 24 and everyone I know my age who has bought a new car(myself included) has been burned (in one case literally) by domestics. They only negative import purchase my inner-circle reports was a Hyundai that was Lemon Law'd in 2001.

[ShadowDog]

To answer the question of the thread:

"No."

[Croc]

As a 25 year old, I can confirm that you are on to something. Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura have developed a nice reputation as the vehicle of choice for the 50+ crowd. For the 18-30 crowd, we see the brands differently than an older demographic. I work with a bunch of young Soldiers, and I can tell you that domestics are offering quite a few 'cool' cars. Mustang, Charger, Camaro, CTS, Cobalt/HHR Turbo, Challenger are all very well perceived by people my age.

No way dude, you can't project soldiers onto the age demographic at large. Soldiers by nature place a higher value on the USA brand, hence American manufacturing, American cars, etc. The hipsters are buying Scions, Mazdas, VWs, etc. while the more upwardly mobile are going for the BMWs, AUDIs, and Volvos.