Can New Chevy Camaro Muscle Up Sales?

[longtooth]

Can New Chevy Camaro Muscle Up Sales?

Posted By: Phil LeBeau

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For pure "car lovers", the re-birth of the Chevy Camaro is like an early Christmas gift.

A modern day muscle car (base sticker $22,995) built for people who live for the thrill of the drive. Its return, like the return of the Dodge Challenger or the Bullitt Mustang, reminds us of the glory days for American cars. Too bad this Camaro come out when GM is gasping for air and Chevy showrooms are quiet.

It wasn't supposed to be like this.

When GM introduced the Camaro at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, people drooled over the car. Critics called it the culmination of the GM design renaissance under Bob Lutz. At the time, GM was in the midst of a 5 year plan that would get the company back in the black for good. At least that was the plan.

Three years later, GM is avoiding bankruptcy only because of billions in government loans, Bob Lutz is about to retire, and the Camaro hits showrooms when sales are at 28 year lows.

How much can the Camaro muscle up sales? Not much. This is a niche vehicle coming at a time when consumer confidence is so low, little is driving enthusiasm for new cars. Here's how bad it is. When I told a friend of mine who is your typical "car guy" that I would be driving the new Camaro, his reaction was, "That's nice."

His reaction is not a commentary on the Camaro. It's more a reflection of just how much the consumer has been beaten down by this economy. There are really no new models coming out that have created a "must have" aura around them. And for those of you who think the trio of hybrids (Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Ford Fusion) are generating buzz, I hate to disappoint you. They are fine cars, but they are not getting average people to sit up and say, "YES! I gotta buy that!"

GM would love for that to happen with the Camaro, but that's unlikely. Right now, new cars are not on the radar with buyers. And while that is completely understandable in this economy, it is also too bad. A lot of people are missing out on a hell of a ride in the new Camaro.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29719269/site/14081...C&par=yahoo

It's the Economy, stupid.

Hope the Camaro does well.

Still anticipating seeing the first one in the wild.

[NOS2006]

First, the Camaro's re-birth isn't an early Christmas gift. It's rather late.

Second, they look so much better on the street than they do in the auto shows or in pictures...

[Intrepidation]

Well the Challenger is doing well (without incentives), so while the Camaro won't save GM sales wise, it should still find plenty of buyers.

[NOS2006]

Everybody I know that's seen one on the street is going crazy about it. All the guys at work that have seen it are crazed about it. My buddy texted me Saturday night after seeing one and was super impressed. It'll sell pretty well once more people see them!

[longtooth]

Now one of my brothers wants one. He's about 92% committed to ordering one and suddenly, as opposed to two weeks ago, the dealers are brokering these as though they were wrought from 24k gold.

I know that the game is afoot here. Some dealers are not asking for a premium and some are. As high as 5 Grand. I tell them: Wait until the pipeline's full and by Thanksgiving the tune will be a little different.

I saw the silver concept in the Doraville, GA assembly plant nearly 3 years ago. I was on-hand the next day when they drove it onto the trailer (in a sullen drizzle that day) to be shuttled-off to it's next stop. The Camaro looked and sounded wonderful and even now, 3 years on, it still maintains it's appeal for me (and my brothers) and is worth waiting for. Yet I see in Phil LeBeau's wistfully-toned story the epic struggle of bringing this fine machine to the masses when the Economy is so rotten even looking forward 6, 12 or 18 months.

[Intrepidation]

I can't wait to check one out up close and personal.

[longtooth]

I can't wait to check one out up close and personal.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that each dealer would get one to road-test?

I'm hearing that since supply is so tight that the dealers haven't even considered letting prospective buyers sit-on/drive these things and play w/all the gadgets.

Personally, driving the V-6 would only make me want to strap into a V-8 and let those horses run.

[NOS2006]

Wouldn't it stand to reason that each dealer would get one to road-test?

I'm hearing that since supply is so tight that the dealers haven't even considered letting prospective buyers sit-on/drive these things and play w/all the gadgets.

Personally, driving the V-6 would only make me want to strap into a V-8 and let those horses run.

You are wrong, sir...

A co-worker got a coupon in the mail from a Chevy dealer saying that if you come in and test drive their new Camaro (when available), you'll get a $10 oil change along with it. Talk about win-win for the customer!

[Intrepidation]

I can always wait until they have enough to actually check one out. I suspect it'll be like the Challenger the first few months of availability: they'll all be spoken for.

[longtooth]

You are wrong, sir...

A co-worker got a coupon in the mail from a Chevy dealer saying that if you come in and test drive their new Camaro (when available), you'll get a $10 oil change along with it. Talk about win-win for the customer!

This is good. Seems normal doing it this way.

I won't mention the name of the cockiest dealer I spoke with. The representative seems to feel that the squeeze will be on the supply into next Spring. Pshaw on that f*cking idea. Same goes for his 5 Grand over stick bullsh*t too.

[longtooth]

I can always wait until they have enough to actually check one out. I suspect it'll be like the Challenger the first few months of availability: they'll all be spoken for.

Until the novelty wears-off a bit.

Now I see Challengers, not the V-8 models mind you, with 2 foot-tall die-cut vinyl price stickers adorning their flanks at many Dodge dealers.

It'll be some time before a manual 2SS Camaro is spot delivered I would think.

[Intrepidation]

Well there is greater availability now too.

[longtooth]

Well there is greater availability now too.

Yeah. The so-called pipeline is full, the economy crashed and discretionary spending is near an all-time low.

I can't see GM building beyond what they feel that they can sell with reasonable certainty for a while. The Camaro's presence in the market should spark some interest.

[regfootball]

auto show next weekend!

i think this camaro has the sizzle that may get people off the couch, spring is coming. this may be emotional enough car to jump start sales. dealers better not gouge.

i saw the challenger srt this wkd and i was like 'meh'.

[DBeaSSt]

My local Chevy/Caddy dealer says he has five on preorder. This is a small dealership, that he has three CTS's is a big deal.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Anyone else catch that the V6 model will get 29MPG highway?

And why, again, isn't Zeta a viable platform? Imagine what a Turbo 4 would do in the car (economy-wise)

I think cars like the Camaro and Challenger (and even G8) are selling because of the clientele they sell to. The people buying these cars either 1) specifically want them, no matter what the cost or cost of fuel -or- 2) already have $$$ and either can easily afford them or afford to keep them as a weekend car.

People don't cross shop G8's and Camry's... It's just not gonna happen, no matter how hard GM tries. That's why we need VERY competent Epsilon cars (such as the Malibu and Aura and what the G6 was originally SUPPOSED TO BE)

[CARBIZ]

These guys moan and groan like auto sales in the U.S. are going to stay at '28 year lows' forever.

Good grief, are these so-called writers that stupid? GM never expected to sell a quarter million of these a year. It might actually be a good thing that it comes out in a slow economy: it does neither GM or the dealer any good to sell a car they can't get, like the Mustang in '64 or the Magicwagon in '84.

This is called perpetuating the doom and gloom myth, and that sells papers. US auto sales have been on the rocks for a year now, and if this recession follows the last 10, sales will rebound by the 4th quarter of this at the latest and then there should be plenty of pent up demand to propel 2010 auto sales at least to the pre-recession levels, if not higher.

[Camino LS6]

Well, the Camaro does have a history of doing well in tough times.

I predict that it exceeds sales expectations and surprises quite a few people.

[Drew Dowdell]

as long as they get the product mix right.

[SoCalCTS]

After the initial excitement/buying binge wears off, this interior is going to be a serious problem for Camaro sales.

[Drew Dowdell]

Uhm,

why

would

be?

[SoCalCTS]

Thanks for making my point.

Those are much nicer. Except for the first one.

or

[FAPTurbo]

You think the Challenger's is nicer?! You must be shrooming...

Plus, this is a muscle car, so the interior looks like it'll be just fine. It's not like it's competing against BMW 6's.

[Camino LS6]

Interior gropers.

[Drew Dowdell]

Thanks for making my point.

Those are much nicer. Except for the first one.

None of those is nicer than the Camaro. Not being a big fan of this class of car, I don't have a dog in this fight. They all look about equal to me. The VW I posted is the Scirocco, not the CC. The CC, basing at 27k, isn't Camaro competition.

[hyperv6]

The Camaro will sell very good the first year.

Year two will be more of a challange with the economy as it is not coming back strong short term.

Three the Camaro is not going to sell in numbers as it did in the past and GM knows it. That is why they do not have a bird to go with it. The biggest problem is there no longer is a Impala to share the line or parts in Canada. Will they be able to get enough sales to justify keeping the car till 2016?

The next gen Mustang is up in the air now as Ford is not working on RWD platforms. They can still do one but will there be enough auto market to justifiy the spending with CAFE going up.

Finally the market is not 1969 and many people want small cars and FWD when in the past they had no choices of these. We the enthusiast don't think that way but the many people who used to buy base Camaros because it was a affordable small car are now in Rabbits, Civic's and Minis.

[Drew Dowdell]

[2QuickZ's]

I got a ride in a new Camaro last week. It was a V6 car. The interior is definitely economy class, though not horribly so. It's probably better than the Mustang and Challenger but I suppose that is a matter of personal opinion. I personally am not a huge fan of the styling.

I was very impressed with the V6 performance though. It has made me rethink picking up a V6 G8 on the cheap (I need a sedan). While no race car, it certainly will perform more than adequately for most buyers. I only wish I had gotten to drive it.

[Camino LS6]

The Camaro will sell very good the first year.

Year two will be more of a challange with the economy as it is not coming back strong short term.

Three the Camaro is not going to sell in numbers as it did in the past and GM knows it. That is why they do not have a bird to go with it. The biggest problem is there no longer is a Impala to share the line or parts in Canada. Will they be able to get enough sales to justify keeping the car till 2016?

The next gen Mustang is up in the air now as Ford is not working on RWD platforms. They can still do one but will there be enough auto market to justifiy the spending with CAFE going up.

Finally the market is not 1969 and many people want small cars and FWD when in the past they had no choices of these. We the enthusiast don't think that way but the many people who used to buy base Camaros because it was a affordable small car are now in Rabbits, Civic's and Minis.

Can't go along with all of these assumptions.

[Satty]

One and done. There wont be a 6th gen for a long, long, long, long time. Unless you count the one that started production today as the 6th gen, since the "5th gen" made its debut long enough ago to be ready for an MCE.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Satty

[longtooth]

Can't go along with all of these assumptions.

In fact one could posit the exact opposite as truisms and they'd sound as credible.

[Camino LS6]

In fact one could posit the exact opposite as truisms and they'd sound as credible.

Exactly.

With a side comment or two about "stale thinking" at GM, and its lack of value moving forward.

[longtooth]

Exactly.

With a side comment or two about "stale thinking" at GM, and its lack of value moving forward.

Tired and oft-quoted rhetoric that never ceases to bore.

Bores me at least.

Yet some are moved by it.

[Camino LS6]

I just can't advocate the "follower" mentality at all.

GM has used it for ages to bad result.

[longtooth]

I just can't advocate the "follower" mentality at all.

GM has used it for ages to bad result.

It does sell a $h!load of stuff.

iPod anyone?

[Camino LS6]

It does sell a $h!load of stuff.

iPod anyone?

The problem is that is hasn't ever really worked for GM, time to try another approach.

[Z-06]

It does sell a $h!load of stuff.

iPod anyone?

Well it does but the problem is GM is not good at following either. Ipod worked with marketing and glitz those abilities lack in GM.

[longtooth]

The problem is that is hasn't ever really worked for GM, time to try another approach.

Besides practically having had the market to themselves for a time, GM did capture or define the zeitgeist of the 50s and 60s.

Adequate motivation to learn from past triumphs and mistakes.

[longtooth]

Well it does but the problem is GM is not good at following either. Ipod worked with marketing and glitz those abilities lack in GM.

The 'Pod benefited from being directly in the path of destiny. imo.

If not Apple it would've been some other entity.

Nike, Mountain Dew, Coke, Starbucks and of their ilk to a degree benefited from the existence of lemmings.

Walt Disney World, Hard Rock Cafe and McDonald's too.

Edited March 16, 2009 by longtooth

[Camino LS6]

Besides practically having had the market to themselves for a time, GM did capture or define the zeitgeist of the 50s and 60s.

Adequate motivation to learn from past triumphs and mistakes.

Exactly my point, GM is at its best innovating and setting trends - following the herd has only led them to ruin.

[longtooth]

Exactly my point, GM is at its best innovating and setting trends - following the herd has only led them to ruin.

The Camaro serves as halo more affordably than Corvette.

GM should be cautioning dealers so as not to drive away future customers through gouging. It is going on.

Those lacking the means at present might be enthusiastic regarding a tuned Cruze.

GM has the DNA to pull it off.

Would that they could steel their will in order to find that mojo.

[Camino LS6]

Agreed.

[gm4life]

I think GM will be pretty happy with Camaro sales, even in this "down" economy.

[gmcbob]

This is an interesting discussion - how can GM lead the way with innovative new products while still being somewhat mired in the past mentally? This new Camaro is awesome no doubt, but it won't attract Civic and GTI buyers generally speaking - this car attracts a more or less shrinking market.

This is where getting rid of Saturn could be a real bad move on their part. I drive a Vue (and I also used to drive a Z28, and love this new Camaro), but I'm not your typical Saturn customer. I think Saturn could have been the division or brand or group to market and sell affordable, fun, front wheel drive Opels while letting Chevrolet take care of your more traditional GM buyers with Camaro and Impala.

But perhaps the upcoming Volt will bring the radical shift that GM desperately wants; a typical Civic/GTI/Fit/Yaris/Prius buyer into a Chevy dealership considering a domestic built small car. Perhaps the Volt is the trend setting vehicle that also ensures healthy Camaro sales too?

I had this thought today as I was driving around in Houston. Could buying a domestic somehow be a sort of new "trendy" thing with the 18-34 crowd again? I seem to be seeing more new domestics than normal - mostly trucks and SUV's of course, but they do seem to be holding their own. And the drivers are young too.

[Camino LS6]

This is an interesting discussion - how can GM lead the way with innovative new products while still being somewhat mired in the past mentally? This new Camaro is awesome no doubt, but it won't attract Civic and GTI buyers generally speaking - this car attracts a more or less shrinking market.

This is where getting rid of Saturn could be a real bad move on their part. I drive a Vue (and I also used to drive a Z28, and love this new Camaro), but I'm not your typical Saturn customer. I think Saturn could have been the division or brand or group to market and sell affordable, fun, front wheel drive Opels while letting Chevrolet take care of your more traditional GM buyers with Camaro and Impala.

But perhaps the upcoming Volt will bring the radical shift that GM desperately wants; a typical Civic/GTI/Fit/Yaris/Prius buyer into a Chevy dealership considering a domestic built small car. Perhaps the Volt is the trend setting vehicle that also ensures healthy Camaro sales too?

I had this thought today as I was driving around in Houston. Could buying a domestic somehow be a sort of new "trendy" thing with the 18-34 crowd again? I seem to be seeing more new domestics than normal - mostly trucks and SUV's of course, but they do seem to be holding their own. And the drivers are young too.

This is much closer to my way of thinking on the topic. Both the Camaro and the Volt are ALL Chevy, and they manage to be impressive at the same time. Both cars follow their own path honestly and don't pander to groupthink.

More, please.

[Drew Dowdell]

This is an interesting discussion - how can GM lead the way with innovative new products while still being somewhat mired in the past mentally? This new Camaro is awesome no doubt, but it won't attract Civic and GTI buyers generally speaking - this car attracts a more or less shrinking market.

This is where getting rid of Saturn could be a real bad move on their part. I drive a Vue (and I also used to drive a Z28, and love this new Camaro), but I'm not your typical Saturn customer. I think Saturn could have been the division or brand or group to market and sell affordable, fun, front wheel drive Opels while letting Chevrolet take care of your more traditional GM buyers with Camaro and Impala.

But perhaps the upcoming Volt will bring the radical shift that GM desperately wants; a typical Civic/GTI/Fit/Yaris/Prius buyer into a Chevy dealership considering a domestic built small car. Perhaps the Volt is the trend setting vehicle that also ensures healthy Camaro sales too?

I had this thought today as I was driving around in Houston. Could buying a domestic somehow be a sort of new "trendy" thing with the 18-34 crowd again? I seem to be seeing more new domestics than normal - mostly trucks and SUV's of course, but they do seem to be holding their own. And the drivers are young too.

I think GTI/Civic buyers are GTI/Civic buyers because there hasn't been anything better they could afford lately. I mean really, didn't the ricer thing majorly take off after the F-bodies died? Sure there have always been people who customized foreign cars, but the crazy "put a a body kit and 747 wing on a car with a 1.6 litre lump of coal" thing didn't start until the late 90s.

As for young people buying domestics. Even the Malibu is doing well. I know a 29y/o who is shopping for a replacement for his 250k mile Maxima. Ten months ago, he'd never even consider a domestic, but last week he came to me to ask about the Malibu since he loves the new look.

[gmcbob]

It's weird, and maybe it's just my imagination, but it just seems like there's this younger crowd looking at and buying more domestics. And it seems to have gained more traction just recently.

I think you're right Oldsmoboi on your theory of affordability (when it comes to buying "fun" cars).

Lets face it, over the course of the last few years, more and more enthusiasts out there working a part time job or a fresh out of college with an entry level job were not going to march down to a Ford dealer and blow $27000 + taxes on a loaded up Mustang GT - especially when they start shopping around for insurance - even in a great economy. So suddenly a well made Civic or Mazda 3 starts sounding a lot more appealing on the old budget. As I typed this out, I just realized that Ford's biggest mistake was to not make the base Mustang V6's way more powerful than it is. Anywho...this is a game that the domestics just didn't really play well in, and sort of priced themselves out of when they decided to make pony cars real expensive during the late 90s. Even the old (non V6) F-Bodies were starting to become a financial stretch for a lot of the young enthusiasts who ended up buying one (like me - my Z28 was a real wallop to my budget when I was 24 when I bought mine new - but I loved it so much I figured I'd just drink really cheap beer and limit my other purchases - big time). I think GM and Ford should have really took a long hard look at what they were doing to themselves when they started pricing nameplates like Camaro, Firebird and Mustang up into the stratosphere back in the day (relative to GTI/Civic).

Which leads me to another thought I just had now...what if GM would have just gone ahead and spent the money on developing this new Camaro on a much lighter, smaller 370Z sized rear drive chassis and priced the car more in line with a Civic or GTI? I'm sure they could have come up with something - considering they have Solstice and CTS parts to work with?

Who knows? I do like that they didn't wimp out on the V6 at any rate- although I think they should have tweaked the V6 to push out 330 hp (like Nissan) from the factory - but whatever, 304 is respectable.

Edited March 17, 2009 by gmcbob

[regfootball]

Anyone else catch that the V6 model will get 29MPG highway?

And why, again, isn't Zeta a viable platform? Imagine what a Turbo 4 would do in the car (economy-wise)

I think cars like the Camaro and Challenger (and even G8) are selling because of the clientele they sell to. The people buying these cars either 1) specifically want them, no matter what the cost or cost of fuel -or- 2) already have $$$ and either can easily afford them or afford to keep them as a weekend car.

People don't cross shop G8's and Camry's... It's just not gonna happen, no matter how hard GM tries. That's why we need VERY competent Epsilon cars (such as the Malibu and Aura and what the G6 was originally SUPPOSED TO BE)

for what people pay for camrys the g8 is a better buy. once the g8 gets the DI v6 and 6 pot, it will be the g8 to get.

[GXT]

I think GTI/Civic buyers are GTI/Civic buyers because there hasn't been anything better they could afford lately. I mean really, didn't the ricer thing majorly take off after the F-bodies died? Sure there have always been people who customized foreign cars, but the crazy "put a a body kit and 747 wing on a car with a 1.6 litre lump of coal" thing didn't start until the late 90s.

That isn't why. They could buy a Cobalt with more performance and for even less if price was such an issue. And these big hulking masses aren't going to appeal to your typical GTI/Civic buyer. Growing up I always wanted a trans am or a camaro. When I was old enough to afford one I went shopping. I was so disappointed. They looked so big from the outside but when you got in they were overly-small with horrible visibility and terrible interiors. For some reason the sheer thickness of the door really stuck with me. The whole car just made so little sense. I think the whole experience actually marked my switch to imports.

I don't see anything particularly new here. The HP would be nice, but the domestics have had the HP advantage for a long time and it hasn't done much for them. I suspect those interiors are a large part of the barrier to import buyers.

On that subject... those interiors are horrible! Saying that the Camaro's interior isn't that bad buy comparing it to the couldn't-be-any-uglier Charger and Mustang interiors doesn't say much. Chrysler can't even remember what it was like to have a clue about interiors. And what is with Ford? Are they putting the same ugly door on every vehicle they sell? You'd think if you were going to standardize on something you'd try to make it not ugly. It is strange times when Hyundai sports the best interior.

[Intrepidation]

gm4life , please resize your sig.