The truth about the G8

[Satty]

Obviously GM is building too many of them if they're putting almost 11% of the base model's MSRP on the hood to move them.

[Camino LS6]

DF: Two things, the G8 was never intended to sell in numbers like that - it was never part of the business case for the car at all. It is a niche model. Secomdly, I'll say it again, Holden CANNOT build that many anyway.

Apples and oranges.

[Intrepidation]

The Charger is profitable because its hares its platform with other models.

I have a question, Camino you might know the answer. What was the original sales target for the G8? I can't find the numbers.

[Camino LS6]

Satty, the exchange rate change a while back gave GM a much wider margin on the G8.

So consider that as well as the fact that the car is actually gaining ground in the face of what even you can't argue is the most inhospitable market conditions for a car of its type in living memory.

Cut the car a break, it is doing very well in the face of impossible odds.

And, imagine this, it isn't a torture device like most of the crap being foisted on us these days. G8 owners actually enjoy their cars.

[Camino LS6]

The Charger is profitable because its hares its platform with other models.

I have a question, Camino you might know the answer. What was the original sales target for the G8? I can't find the numbers.

It fluctuated between 30K and 50K depending on how many variants were to be offered. (wagon, Ute, V6, V8 etc.)

I can't swear to it, but I seem to remember the last "official" target as being at the low end of that range.

[Intrepidation]

I do remember the 30k number being thrown. I think the point we're just trying to make is that GM show be doing something more to help it sell. It's on track for 18k a year so far, which is well below either figure.

Anyway, I don't want to be mister negativity, I just want GM to do something to help it sell more...too bad they want to kill it not help it.

[Camino LS6]

I do remember the 30k number being thrown. I think the point we're just trying to make is that GM show be doing something more to help it sell. It's on track for 18k a year so far, which is well below either figure.

Anyway, I don't want to be mister negativity, I just want GM to do something to help it sell more...too bad they want to kill it not help it.

I can't really disagree with that. But, remember that a huge swath of GM's products are in much worse trouble than the G8 saleswise. The G8 is at least putting up a fight and establishing a loyal following of buyers who love their cars. And that alone is of major value to Pontiac, selling a car that the owners love is a good thing as opposed to selling one that people merely resign themselves to.

[97regalGS]

I believe the original zeta plan was cancelled cause GM realized that it could not sell enough of them in NA to justify the expenditure and plant costs. hence, zeta focus for NA shifted to Camaro and the G8 was brought in as an import.

the plant capacity for the G8 is a complete red herring, if the plant could make 10x as many as they could, the sales numbers would not change one bit.

the fact that the Charger outsells the G8, when they are both large RWD NA built sedans, presumably similarily priced, is pathetic.

I'll give credit to the G8. it's a great car, and one I'd conisder were I in the market. but, while the sales are decent in the current economic times, it doesn't hide the fact that the Charger, several years older, outsells it.

[Camino LS6]

Amazing.

I find a nugget of good news about a good GM product and have to defend said nugget to the nth degree.

Sad.

I thought that the news of the G8 doing surprisingly well in these days of near- Depression and GM's impending doom might be a bit better received around here.

Silly me.

[Robert Hall]

Amazing.

I find a nugget of good news about a good GM product and have to defend said nugget to the nth degree.

Sad.

I thought that the news of the G8 doing surprisingly well in these days of near- Depression and GM's impending doom might be a bit better received around here.

Silly me.

I think it's great news, all things considered.

[Intrepidation]

It is nice to see it making some sales gain, there's no denying that Camino. I think skepticism present in a lot of us with all of the bad news we've been hearing for the past year.

[Camino LS6]

Thanks guys.

But seriously, check out that whole thread over there - there are some real eye-openers when comparing the G8 sales to other products. It's worth the read.

[Robert Hall]

Speaking of 5 series, as I was leaving the office, I noticed a current style 5 series in the parking lot--had 5 spoke chrome wheels that looked a bit like the G8 GT's wheels or the Charger SRT8's wheels..

[Daryl Z71]

Not to worry, PCS knows that the G8 is not long for this world, and as GM has already stated, that when this model ends, there won't be anymore coming to North American shores.

Why isn't this car selling? I mean what is so wrong with it that no one buys it. Seriously I don't understand. I think it is an awesome car, and I just do get why no one wants to buy one?

[cire]

I do have to admit that the G8 and the Solstice are 2 of the most attractive products that Pontiac has had in its lineup in a long time. I wanted to like the GTO, but it looked too much like a Chevy to me.

The G8 looks sporty and purposeful without being contrived or over-the-top. That is a difficult styling trick to pull off. A lot of designs end up being either bland or garish. The G8 is nearly perfectly styled for its mission.

Edited March 14, 2009 by cire

[FloydHendershot]

Not surprising...rebates always seem to help GM sales.

When other companies offer rebates I've noticed the sales seem to slide a bit. Very odd indeed.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I can't really disagree with that. But, remember that a huge swath of GM's products are in much worse trouble than the G8 saleswise. The G8 is at least putting up a fight and establishing a loyal following of buyers who love their cars. And that alone is of major value to Pontiac, selling a car that the owners love is a good thing as opposed to selling one that people merely resign themselves to.

And finally, 3 pages in, someone starts to make some sense.

IF Pontiac is to truly be a niche division (READ: not sh*t canned) this is exactly what is important for the brand going forward.

The G8 is a huge success because it is beginning to foster the kind of buyer that Pontiac, in the future, (and GM as a whole IMO) needs to survive.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

the fact that the Charger outsells the G8, when they are both large RWD NA built sedans, presumably similarily priced, is pathetic.

Unless you put it in context... Hmm.. CHARGER, a name that has 40, maybe 50 years of recognition on a mass produced platform that got TONS of exposure when it was introduced as Dodge's new BREAD and BUTTER sedan.

Compared to... G8... A new, meaningless, alphanumeric name which 80% of the population doesn't even know exists from a "second tier" brand in a market that COULDN'T BE LESS CONDUCIVE to the cars existence. All this amid THE DREADED GM DEATHWATCH media push, and PONTIAC consolidation that has been happening...

Nah... The G8 isn't a success at all... And the Charger isn't an apples to oranges comparison at all...

Amazing.

I find a nugget of good news about a good GM product and have to defend said nugget to the nth degree.

Sad.

I thought that the news of the G8 doing surprisingly well in these days of near- Depression and GM's impending doom might be a bit better received around here.

Silly me.

Nah... Those days are over... The media tirade has even made GM loyalists jaded to the company now.

But, you know what I say about a burning plane... You take that plane and put it on autopilot towards the biggest pile of gasoline and ammo you can find. here's to hoping that GM does go through bankruptcy, and here's to hoping that it takes down as much of america's economy as possible.

Edited March 14, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Satty]

My biggest problem is that the thread is titled "The truth about the G8" and the 2nd post (made by the original poster) is a flat out lie.

I think that makes C&G look worse than some of its posters not buying into the G8 being the holy grail, or jacking off over being on pace to sell 25k cars with a pile of cash on the hood while the parent company dies a slow death.

[Camino LS6]

My biggest problem is that the thread is titled "The truth about the G8" and the 2nd post (made by the original poster) is a flat out lie.

I think that makes C&G look worse than some of its posters not buying into the G8 being the holy grail, or jacking off over being on pace to sell 25k cars with a pile of cash on the hood while the parent company dies a slow death.

OK fine.

Here is the post I got that from. I misread it. The G8 outsold every Saturn product individually not combined

"The only other cars to go up for GM include Astra,Traverse since it had no other place to go since it's new and Hummer H3T (same reason).

So, bright spots are few and the G8 looks to be pretty stable so far, all things considered and compared to everything else on the GM sales floor the G8's holding its own, not stellar but OK. G8 outsold every Buick car model, all Cadillacs except the CTS, all Chevy cars except Impala, Malibu and Cobalt, all Saturns and all other Pontiacs except the G6, and all Saabs too. Not bad for a large, heavy RWD car."

Happy now?

[daves87rs]

Gee, one can't put out anything nice for a positive note...

Well trained, I see.

I'm just glad that Camino found a nice tidbit.

[SAmadei]

So, bright spots are few and the G8 looks to be pretty stable so far, all things considered and compared to everything else on the GM sales floor the G8's holding its own, not stellar but OK. G8 outsold every Buick car model, all Cadillacs except the CTS, all Chevy cars except Impala, Malibu and Cobalt, all Saturns and all other Pontiacs except the G6, and all Saabs too. Not bad for a large, heavy RWD car."[/b]

Yeah, it did seem badly phrased, and most people read into it the wrong thing, me included.

That said, I like that you are saying (I haven't looked at the numbers myself, and I trust your facts) that the G8 is the 6th best selling GM car right now... trailing the Malibu, Impala, Cobalt, CTS and G6... and it's increasing.

Considering the lack of marketing or dealer apathy, I would say that's a great thing.

The cash on the hood is irrelevant. _Every_ GM car has cash on the hood.

I would even say that at this point, everything selling less than the G8 can be cancelled... Whoops, no Buick in NA! ;-)

How much better would the G8 do if it was build in the US, without production limits and the long boat ride? It's my undertstanding the Aussies make roughly as much as US workers, so I would say that a US built G8 would be $3K less (shipping and less expensive raw materials in the US). It's not like there isn't any unused factory capacity in the US. Plus those "buy American" people wouldn't shun it.

I'm convinced if it would have been built here, was a little more American in feel and simply named the Grand Prix, it would be on target for 100K a year and potentially a COTY.

[BatmanGTO]

OK fine.

Here is the post I got that from. I misread it. The G8 outsold every Saturn product individually not combined

"The only other cars to go up for GM include Astra,Traverse since it had no other place to go since it's new and Hummer H3T (same reason).

So, bright spots are few and the G8 looks to be pretty stable so far, all things considered and compared to everything else on the GM sales floor the G8's holding its own, not stellar but OK. G8 outsold every Buick car model, all Cadillacs except the CTS, all Chevy cars except Impala, Malibu and Cobalt, all Saturns and all other Pontiacs except the G6, and all Saabs too. Not bad for a large, heavy RWD car."

Happy now?

WOW..... your right these guys are butchering this car/thread.

Hey guys I drive a GTO (new body) want to rip me a new one? Oh wait that has been done and people are finally at the point they realize it's a great car. Does this mean I have to wait for the G8 to be canceled before everyone misses this one too? GM officially sux. Three cheers(and no gears) for you guys.

[Intrepidation]

WOW..... your right these guys are butchering this car/thread.

Hey guys I drive a GTO (new body) want to rip me a new one? Oh wait that has been done and people are finally at the point they realize it's a great car. Does this mean I have to wait for the G8 to be canceled before everyone misses this one too? GM officially sux. Three cheers(and no gears) for you guys.

Uh right...you seem to conveniently read over the fact that almost if not everyone on this thread has said this is a great car, one of GM's very best in decades.

The point that was being made was that it's, fro whatever reason, not generating as many sales as it could. Even in the down economy it should still be doing better. Why it isn't could be many factors, but ultimately it is unknown the exact cause.

That should clear it up. kthxbai

[BatmanGTO]

Uh right...you seem to conveniently read over the fact that almost if not everyone on this thread has said this is a great car, one of GM's very best in decades.

The point that was being made was that it's, fro whatever reason, not generating as many sales as it could. Even in the down economy it should still be doing better. Why it isn't could be many factors, but ultimately it is unknown the exact cause.

That should clear it up. kthxbai

I didn't conveniently read over anything. Yes a majority have said it is a great car (me being in agreement) but a post is made that the car is doing well for the economic times, being the type of vehicle it is, and everyone thinks it should be doing fantastic beyond all measurable accounts. Alot of people tend to look down on the G8 (whether it is because it's a Pontiac or for whatever reason they feel like coming up with nowadays) and I for one think it is fantastic that it is doing as well as it is (all things considered). Maybe the rest of GM's sales need to step up if a RWD sport sedan is making progress. What happened to the supposed gas crisis and everyone running to get eco-friendly fwd vehicles? In my own biased opinion (that I'll openly admit), I for one am happy that a vehicle like the G8 has not crashed and burned like so many expected of it from the get go. Long live RWD V8's (and any REAL excitement from Pontiac) and on that note I'm going to bed.

P.S. G8 was never intended to be mainstream (nor has the production capabilities to meet that market) and forbid the G8 to ever become mainstream, because that might just give me hope for the first time in a long time that GM might have a clue at what they are doing.

kthxilgobai

[Intrepidation]

I didn't conveniently read over anything. Yes a majority have said it is a great car (me being in agreement) but a post is made that the car is doing well for the economic times, being the type of vehicle it is, and everyone thinks it should be doing fantastic beyond all measurable accounts. Alot of people tend to look down on the G8 (whether it is because it's a Pontiac or for whatever reason they feel like coming up with nowadays) and I for one think it is fantastic that it is doing as well as it is (all things considered). Maybe the rest of GM's sales need to step up if a RWD sport sedan is making progress. What happened to the supposed gas crisis and everyone running to get eco-friendly fwd vehicles? In my own biased opinion (that I'll openly admit), I for one am happy that a vehicle like the G8 has not crashed and burned like so many expected of it from the get go. Long live RWD V8's (and any REAL excitement from Pontiac) and on that note I'm going to bed.

P.S. G8 was never intended to be mainstream (nor has the production capabilities to meet that market) and forbid the G8 to ever become mainstream, because that might just give me hope for the first time in a long time that GM might have a clue at what they are doing.

kthxilgobai

I'll restate this then: It's on track to sell 18k a year. Original sales goals were 30k-50k annually. So that means, be it "mainstream" or not, it could still sell more...and for whatever reason it isn't. Yes the economy is in the crapper, but the Charger still manages to sell 3x (or so) more in the same market conditions, despite the G8 being an overall superior car. That is point I've been making all along. That's all.

[turbo200]

ok, showing my bias and emotion a little here -- G8 to charger comparisons are baseless. why? because of the most important factor: price!! $24,000 base price for charger, that's chevy impala territory which bases at $23,800. combined with fleet volumes that range in the 40-50%'s ......but that's another argument. let's stick to price. At $28,000, the advertised base price for the G8 compares to base tsx, base 9-3, s40, maxima, vw passat/cc,....the G8 fits in the old bonneville's price categroy much more than gran prix. i'd love to know how sales volumes compares to those cars. g8 is not at all priced in the mainstream, under $25k market.

as far as the actual sales of the G8 go....we gotta look at pontiac relative to the competition. new mazda 6 v. G6. accord v. G6. compare torrent and g5 to the competition and it's clear the rest of ppontiac's brand is in shambles right now. at 28k, the g8 competes on its merits alone as much as on its brand strength/perception....

[Intrepidation]

That is a valid point, although for some time the Charger had a greater than 50% take rate on the R/T.

I stand by that I think the car could sell better, and I think it's a lack of marketing and the rest of Pontiac's lineup being rental queens that is mostly to blame for this.

Oh well, at Pontiac has one truly no compromise car.

[Intrepidation]

Looking back, I think the lack of marketing is a big issue. Chrysler really hyped up the Charger's release, and had all kinds of material ready to go the day of it's unveiling. They also really hammered away at the cars strengths, and let everyone know it was something special. Not nearly as much effort was put into the G8's adverting. Sure there was the video game ads and the toy car ads...which were cool. BUt Unless I'm mistake the G8 didn't get its own mini site or anything like that...and adverting, like most GM cars, dropped off.

And this is a shame, because the car has been universally praised by auto rags. GM should be adverting the hell out of that fact...I bet if they did they could at least double the sales.

[Intrepidation]

Or I could just say "Ok sure, sales couldn't possibly be any better."

Happy?

[CaddyXLR-V]

That is a valid point, although for some time the Charger had a greater than 50% take rate on the R/T.

I stand by that I think the car could sell better, and I think it's a lack of marketing and the rest of Pontiac's lineup being rental queens that is mostly to blame for this.

Oh well, at Pontiac has one truly no compromise car.

Unless your going to take into the account the 65%+ of Chargers that go to fleets, stop comparing the G8 to the Charger. Not to mention, how long has the Charger been on the market compared to the G8? Years compared to months?

[Intrepidation]

Or I could just say "Ok sure, sales couldn't possibly be any better."

Happy?

And sure you bet, the Charger and G8 don't compete at all so clearly they shouldn't even be cross shopped or compared at all.

Oh and if you've got a source to show me that this year 65% of Chargers are fleets I'd like to see it, since I can't find a source.

But hey whatever, like I said sales couldn' t possibly be any better at all or anything, so I won't bother to encourage higher sales potentials.