....

[Chris_Doane]

.... Edited October 14, 2006 by CD/BP

[ehaase]

Here's another sad article - http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazine/con...47/b3960085.htm

[GMan]

"Scaling back budgets for new models" Here we go again... :rolleyes:

[Satty]

So, when do you think we'll see a GM version of the Prius. It only makes sense, once Toyota buys GM they have to give them ONE desirable model.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well, what the press predicts WILL come true, in time.. Just wait.

They'll get their wish. Who knew they would've been so efficient these past few years though? Especially after they all sold us so well on a revival.

And, surprise-surprise, the BIGGEST load of garbage is coming from one of the most import biased sources, Detroit Free Press.

Keep killing those stock prices! Good job! (Sarcasm)

First they destroyed Chrysler (Whic resulted in a sell off) Then they destroyed Ford (Which would've resulted in bankruptcy or a sell off had the Ford family still not been involved and now it's GM's turn. Time to slay the dragon. American media: 3 and 0

: Michigan's largest company could be bought by a corporate raider like Las Vegas billionaire Kirk Kerkorian.

GOOD!

So the emotional toll would be severe if GM fails the state and its workforce.

IF GM FAILS?!?!?!?!? IF GM FAILS?!?!?!

This COUNTRY failed GM. Payback is fair game.

"Yet we have only experienced the first waves of the approaching economic tsunami," he added. "Today's global phenomena such as outsourcing and off-shoring have destroyed the viability of low-skill, high-wage manufacturing jobs ... as a source of prosperity and social well-being."

EXACTLY... Soon, we'll have more people than jobs in this country and I'm not talking about the typical 5% unemployment rate. Either you secure your future through competition and education or you have no future because other americans DO NOT care about your well being and the government CERTAINLY doesn't either obviously or they wouldn't have been AWOL for the last 10-15 years.

GM seems to be getting the message. The talk behind closed doors is now about scaling back budgets for new models, reducing payrolls by tens of thousands, and shutting factories. In meetings the first week of November with executives at the troubled North American auto division, Chairman and CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. said they must dramatically cut spending. He is even scrutinizing new models intended to drive sales three years from now. Publicly, Wagoner has already committed to announce in December a series of plant closings and to give more detail on how he will eliminate more than 25,000 of its 110,000 auto jobs.

:rolleyes:

Well, it looks like all those "awesome new vehicles and possibilities" were a bunch of smoke screens and mirrors AGAIN.

Should sales continue to fall, more factories could be shuttered later, says one company source.

I think we ALL know the answer to that, especially the media and analysts.

[BuddyP]

"Scaling back budgets for new models" Here we go again... :rolleyes:

[post="41843"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Isn't this where the budgeting should be directed to? Seems like they'd want to get new models out to sell.

[Croc]

Honestly? I'm not that concerned. With the Delphi situation, GM is poised to get some serious concessions on the next round of UAW contract negotiations.

[Petra]

If something isn't done soon, GM will be looking at bankruptcy. There's no doubt about it. But I don't think the problems that need to be fixed will be. It seems to me that GM is living in a fantasy world where they can B.S their way out of any trouble by making the same false promises they've always made. They've narrowly escaped this fate too many times. One of these days, the hammer will fall. And, you know, I'm starting to think that isn't such a bad thing. Maybe then they'll learn.

[Angry Dad]

Here's an entity that has a stock value of aprox 14 billion but also is sitting on 19 billion in cash and who knows how much property. What this says more than anything else is how huge the load for employee and retiree benefits really is.

[mystik]

Hmm. Anyone ever watch the Animatrix? Where the robots started making their own industry, stupid humans started buying nothing but robot products, then got pissed when the human markets started crashing? Nobody is helping GM. Not the consumers, not the press, not themselves. This sucks....I wont ever own a foreign car. I never want to or care to. Oh and at least some bit of sunlight...gas prices are on the drop again, just in time for the GMT-900 releases. Maybe, just maybe, it will drive people to look into SUVs again. Edited November 11, 2005 by mystik

[G. David Felt]

I said it before and I will say it again, I know there are fans of certain models, but GM really needs to do a clean house. Entry level - Chevy / GMC Merged in. Mid Level - Buick/Pontiac/saturn merged in. High end - Cadillac. GM does not need 6 brands. They can turn high profits by closing down names and cleaning up the house to where 3 divisions get the proper resources to have updates and change every 3-5 years and keep things fresh and poppin so that buyers keep coming in. I love the General and all my Vehicles, 1 - 94 suburban, 1- 98 S-10, 1-99 cavalier and 1 2005 CTS for the wife. My two kids and wife love their cars, but really the market is not what it used to be and what GM really needs is a focused approach in the market. Yes this means some dealers will have to change or go out of business but that is the reality of the price game. If a dealer only stays with one brand today, they will not grow. I for one vote with my money on the General surviving, but still holding and buying more stock as it really is a value right now. Yet the hard decisions have to be made and not everyone can be happy or will like it but plants need to close, people need to be laid off and divisions closed. The global economy is here to stay and you have to change with it or be left in the dust. End Game! <_<

[Robert Hall]

The last thing we need is GM getting drunk on SUV sales again and neglecting to put money towards the cars. Before you know it it'll be 2011 and we'll still be driving W-body WIMPalas and Grand Prixs.
GM doesn't have six brands. You forgot Hummer, Daewoo and Saab. I could stand for Saturn, Saab and Daewoo to be spun off, but the rest can stay. GMC make too much money to get rid of and Buick/Pontiac cater to different markets.

[post="41991"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Daewoo brand isn't sold in the US....so GM has 8 brands in the US... (plus 4 outside the US--Daewoo, Vauxhall, Opel & Holden).

I don't see how with only 20% market share in the US GM can maintain 8 brands...

[VenSeattle]

I don't see how with only 20% market share in the US GM can maintain 8 brands...

[post="41998"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford is doing with PAG and has already done with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the dealers but I have no clue about SAAB.

[Shantanu]

Some of the import brands need to be killed off if GM is to survive. The market is too competetive. If Mitsubishi could be crushed and driven out of the U.S. market, that would be a major win. VW/Audi aren't doing that well and should be on the hitlist as well. The premium Germans (BMW and Mercedes) should be kept to the market share that they are at.

[PontiacTechNJ]

Some of the import brands need to be killed off if GM is to survive.  The market is too competetive.  If Mitsubishi could be crushed and driven out of the U.S. market, that would be a major win.  VW/Audi aren't doing that well and should be on the hitlist as well.

The premium Germans (BMW and Mercedes) should be kept to the market share that they are at.

[post="42028"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports

[Shantanu]

Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports

[post="42040"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, I don't know about killing off Toyota, LOL LOL! But it is a good idea for GM to attempt to limit Toyota's future growth.

[Member55]

Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford has done with PAG and already does with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the delaers but I have no clue about SAAB.

[post="42017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ford has only three true American brands, all other brands are sold all over the world.

[andy82471]

Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports

[post="42040"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Both of you are completely out of touch with reality. We live in a free market society hence foreign competition is not going anywhere. Why post utter nonsense that will never become reality. The only way GM will survive is to cut cost ( reduce UAW influence ) and build better quality and more desirable products. Unfortunately GM has been lagging on both counts. The generous benefits have got to go. The money saved from reduced benefits should go to building more modern plants and newer more desirable cars.

[Ghost Dog]

Here is the most striking sentence from these 3 stories:

"But the facts are unavoidable: You can now buy every single share of GM stock for a mere $13.5 billion, or about $3.5 billion less than last spring."

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm11e_20051111.htm
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm-bar111e_20051111.htm
http://www.freep.com/money/business/walsh11e_20051111.htm

[post="41839"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So Controlling interest in Gm for 7 Billion eh? SAIC? Edited November 12, 2005 by Ghost Dog

[Drew Dowdell]

Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford is doing with PAG and has already done with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the dealers but I have no clue about SAAB.

[post="42017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ford has 8. You forgot Range Rover.

[BigPontiac]

I said it before and I will say it again, I know there are fans of certain models, but GM really needs to do a clean house.

Entry level - Chevy / GMC Merged in.
Mid Level - Buick/Pontiac/saturn merged in.
High end - Cadillac.

GM does not need 6 brands.  They can turn high profits by closing down names and cleaning up the house to where 3 divisions get the proper resources to have updates and change every 3-5 years and keep things fresh and poppin so that buyers keep coming in.

I love the General and all my Vehicles, 1 - 94 suburban, 1- 98 S-10, 1-99 cavalier and 1 2005 CTS for the wife.

My two kids and wife love their cars, but really the market is not what it used to be and what GM really needs is a focused approach in the market.

Yes this means some dealers will have to change or go out of business but that is the reality of the price game.  If a dealer only stays with one brand today, they will not grow.

I for one vote with my money on the General surviving, but still holding and buying more stock as it really is a value right now.  Yet the hard decisions have to be made and not everyone can be happy or will like it but plants need to close, people need to be laid off and divisions closed.

The global economy is here to stay and you have to change with it or be left in the dust.

End Game!  <_<

[post="41974"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Shutting down Oldsmobile cost GM about $1 Billion and then they got sued by some of their dealers...adding the shutdown costs for multiple brands plus the excess capacity GM has in their current plants due to their drop in market share and their current UAW contracts means they have limited options. Steve Miller over at Delphi has been openly saying he expects GM to file bankruptcy. If the Delphi situation goes badly, it could very likely start the snowball effect for GM...

Olds shutdown cost reference: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7836912/page/2

[network engineer]

I recently read an article in Time Magazine about Apple Computer. Here is an excerpt that I think describes what is really killing GM right now. (Talking about the cool new iPods and iMac G5) That is cool stuff. So, where does it all come from? Ask apple CEO Steve Jobs about it, and he'll tell you an instructive little story. Call it the parable of the concept car. "Here's what you find at a lot of companies," he says, kicking back in a conference room at Apples's gleaming white Silicon Valley headquarters, which looks something like a cross between an Ivy League university and an iPod. "You know how you see a show car, and it's really cool, and then FOUR years later you see the production car and it sucks? And you go, What happened? THey had it! They had it in hte palm of their hands! They grabbed DEFEAT from the jaws of victory! "What happened was the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible.' And so it gets alot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse." When Jobs took up his present position at Apple in 1997, that's the situation he found. He and Jonathan Ive, head of design, came up with the original iMac, a candy-colored computer merged with a cathode-ray tube that, at the time, looked like nothing anybody had seen outside of a Jetsons cartoon. "Sure enough," Jobs recalls, "when we took it to the engineers, they said, 'Oh.' And they came up with 38 reasons. And I said, 'No, no, we're doing this.' And they said, 'Well, why?' And I said, 'Because I'm the CEO, and I think it can be done.' And so they kind of begrudgingly did it. But then it was a big hit." Sound familiar? GM is always bringing out kick ass concepts and then blame it on engineering and manufacturing when the junk gets to the street. Look at the Solstice though. They had a beautiful design and everybody loved it. Bob Lutz probably had engineers, accounting and manufacturing say it "Can't be done." I'm sure he said though, "No we're doing this, Make it happen." And look how AMAZING the car is doing. GM's biggest problem isn't healthcare of Toyota. GM's biggest problem is they leadership bends to the will of their subordinates. GM's leadership needs to lead and make things happen. If GM had brought the G6 out looking like the showcar it would be on the frontpage of every mag and probably named Car of the Year. Instead it's a dog with a joke of an interior. Perhaps a bankruptcy and new board would be a good idea?

[pow]

I recently read an article in Time Magazine about Apple Computer.  Here is an excerpt that I think describes what is really killing GM right now.

(Talking about the cool new iPods and iMac G5)

That is cool stuff.  So, where does it all come from?

Ask apple CEO Steve Jobs about it, and he'll tell you an instructive little story.  Call it the parable of the concept car.  "Here's what you find at a lot of companies," he says, kicking back in a conference room at Apples's gleaming white Silicon Valley headquarters, which looks something like a cross between an Ivy League university and an iPod.  "You know how you see a show car, and it's really cool, and then FOUR years later you see the production car and it sucks?  And you go, What happened?  THey had it!  They had it in hte palm of their hands! They grabbed DEFEAT from the jaws of victory!

"What happened was the designers came up with this really great idea.  Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible.' And so it gets alot worse.  Then they take it to the manufacturing people and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse."

When Jobs took up his present position at Apple in 1997, that's the situation he found.  He and Jonathan Ive, head of design, came up with the original iMac, a candy-colored computer merged with a cathode-ray tube that, at the time, looked like nothing anybody had seen outside of a Jetsons cartoon.  "Sure enough," Jobs recalls, "when we took it to the engineers, they said, 'Oh.' And they came up with 38 reasons.  And I said, 'No, no, we're doing this.' And they said, 'Well, why?' And I said, 'Because I'm the CEO, and I think it can be done.' And so they kind of begrudgingly did it.  But then it was a big hit."

Sound familiar?  GM is always bringing out kick ass concepts and then blame it on engineering and manufacturing when the junk gets to the street.  Look at the Solstice though.  They had a beautiful design and everybody loved it.  Bob Lutz probably had engineers, accounting and manufacturing say it "Can't be done." I'm sure he said though, "No we're doing this, Make it happen."  And look how AMAZING the car is doing.

GM's biggest problem isn't healthcare of Toyota.  GM's biggest problem is they leadership bends to the will of their subordinates.  GM's leadership needs to lead and make things happen.  If GM had brought the G6 out looking like the showcar it would be on the frontpage of every mag and probably named Car of the Year.  Instead it's a dog with a joke of an interior.  Perhaps a bankruptcy and new board would be a good idea?

[post="42129"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I suppose GM is a bit of a Microsoft right now. The redesigns of their cars are due to neccessity. I wonder if a designer had an empty sketchpad and some markers when designing the interior and exterior of the Escalade. Or did management just tell them, "We need a new Escalade, here's what we have to work with, and make it look like a Caddy."

Judging from Apple, the trick is to be hip AND profitable.

[Polish_Kris]

Apple (being a Mac Mini and Ipod Shuffle owner myself) reminds me of Nissan and now recently Toyota. Nissan was a dog, til the Francais took over. They are coming out with designs, which are almost concept-like, and they're selling them like hotcakes. Toyota is starting to do that now. Like, for example, the FJ-crusiser, the new Tundra pick-up, and probably the new Supra, which is going to be based off the Lexus concept. This is what Ford and GM are missing. Chrysler sort of tried doing that with their Chargers and 300s.

[pow]

Apple (being a Mac Mini and Ipod Shuffle owner myself) reminds me of Nissan and now recently Toyota.  Nissan was a dog, til the Francais took over.  They are coming out with designs, which are almost concept-like, and they're selling them like hotcakes.  Toyota is starting to do that now.  Like, for example, the FJ-crusiser, the new Tundra pick-up, and probably the new Supra, which is going to be based off the Lexus concept.  This is what Ford and GM are missing.  Chrysler sort of tried doing that with their Chargers and 300s.

[post="42148"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Apple isn't Japanese. Toyota and Nissan are more like Panasonic, Motorola, or Sanyo, makers of unoriginal, flashy, hi-tech silver plastic things that'll become irrelevant in three years.

[Polish_Kris]

Apple isn't Japanese. Toyota and Nissan are more like Panasonic, Motorola, or Sanyo, makers of unoriginal, flashy, hi-tech silver plastic things that'll become irrelevant in three years.

[post="42150"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You don't understand what I'm trying to get at then, Nissan a few years ago made it big because it focused on the "design sells" aspect. So did Apple. And they prospered from that.

[Cory Wolfe]

Apple (being a Mac Mini and Ipod Shuffle owner myself) reminds me of Nissan and now recently Toyota.  Nissan was a dog, til the Francais took over.  They are coming out with designs, which are almost concept-like, and they're selling them like hotcakes.  Toyota is starting to do that now.  Like, for example, the FJ-crusiser, the new Tundra pick-up, and probably the new Supra, which is going to be based off the Lexus concept.  This is what Ford and GM are missing.  Chrysler sort of tried doing that with their Chargers and 300s.

Hmm...










Um... come again?

Also, unless you've seen them... you can't make claims for the Tundra and Supra. You just can't. You don't know what they'll look like regardless of what anyone tells you. Case in point, the new Escalade. Oh how it was supposed to so great and so original. GM and all the insiders spewed it out like gospel. Well... look at what it turned out to be.

Aw hell... these still fit with what you're saying regardless of whether you like the... :lol: :D

[img]http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/column/letterstotheediors/02.jul/02.pontiac.aztek.f34.500.jpg
[img]http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2002/chevrolet/avalanche/chevrolet.avalanche.r34.500.jpg[/img]
[img]
[img]http://www.innerauto.com/includes/images/Inner_Auto/Saturn_Parts/saturn_ion.01.jpg[/img]

I do see your point though. I love the new Nissans. I'd probably pick them over many of GM's designs. I wish GM would stick with it once it does find a great design. Ya know... transport it throughout the brand. Almost did it with Cadillac until Lutz f**ked it up. In fact... as long as Lutz is at GM, it'll never happen, IMO. He's a fan of bland...

[ZL-1]

GM's biggest problem isn't healthcare of Toyota.  GM's biggest problem is they leadership bends to the will of their subordinates.  GM's leadership needs to lead and make things happen.

I agree with you to some extent: the problem is lack of leadership.

Where I disagree with you is that GM's leadership bends TO THE will of their subordinates. I sometimes feel it's the other way around, being that they bend THE will of their subordinates, so the drive and passion of many people within GM doesn't translate into product that can overcome market's perception/prejudice.

[motownr]

Can anyone in the Detroit area ever recall a recent time when things felt like this? It appears that there is consensus that Wagoner and the Board are facing a choice of jettisoning assets that Kerkorian doesn't like, or having him force their hands by buying more stock. Subaru is gone, GMAC is going, any predictions for what's next? I'll vote for Saab. The cost of selling the division would be minimal, as opposed to the cost of shutting down a la Oldsmobile. What else makes sense to consider selling?

[Robert Hall]

Can anyone in the Detroit area ever recall a recent time when things felt like this? 

It appears that there is consensus that Wagoner and the Board are  facing a choice of jettisoning assets that Kerkorian doesn't like, or having him force their hands by buying more stock.

Subaru is gone, GMAC is going, any predictions for what's next?  I'll vote for Saab.  The cost of selling the division would be minimal, as opposed to the cost of shutting down a la Oldsmobile.

What else makes sense to consider selling?

[post="42197"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Maybe spin OnStar off into a separate company? (Or did they already do that?)

[ehaase]

Dreaming about new Camaros, RWD V8 Impalas, and new luxury Buick sedans is very difficult when reading this stuff. Jonathan Hoenig said on Cavuto on Business yesterday that he predicts bankruptcy by the spring of 2006. We know that GM has lots of great stuff coming out in the next few years, but GM needs to generate a lot of cash now. I can't see GM prospering unless it can close a lot of plants and rid itself of the pension obligations and health care benefits. I can't see GM doing these things without bankruptcy. Yet I can't see millions of people willing to buy cars from a bankrupt manufacturer.

[HarleyEarl]

A lot of blah, blah, blah. GM will never go into bankruptcy. It won't happen, ever.

[razoredge]

Yet I can't see millions of people willing to buy cars from a bankrupt manufacturer.

[post="42546"][/post]

Check and Checkmate !

GM will never go into bankruptcy. It won't happen, ever.

Yes they will Harley, yes they will, tic toc, tic toc, stay tuned.

Where ever this "new" economy is working in other areas it is very very destructive. If people are willing to accept this new economy they must be willing to accept the end results.

No other American industries have survived why would an American company called General Motors survive ? The world has changed and we must accept these changes. Edited November 13, 2005 by razoredge

[Member55]

Why would Kirk allow GM to file a bankruptcy?

[Chicagoland]

Gm can do like United Airlines, and be in "Bankruptcy" for years. That can avoid any lawsuits and can drag out paying penisons and such. If they drop a brand, under bankruptcy, they can claim "economic hardship" and Dealers would have to fold with no compensation. Of course I could be incorrect, anyone can chime in with what they know about bankrupcy laws. But some have to face it, the Glory Days of 4 brands with a whole line of RWD cars is never, never coming back.

[haypops]

But some have to face it, the Glory Days of 4 brands with a whole line of RWD cars is never, never coming back.

[post="42654"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Actually that was 5 brands (Chevy,Pontiac, Olds, Buick, and Cadillac). Also GMC, but nothing like a car there.

I think you are right though that Bank rupty is not the end. It will be hard on people/organizations that have insvested in common stock. Perhaps this is analagous to all the comments before GM debt was downgraded to Junk level. The name is worse than the bite. These are difficult times.

[ehaase]

If they drop a brand, under bankruptcy, they can claim "economic hardship" and Dealers would have to fold with no compensation.

But some have to face it, the Glory Days of 4 brands with a whole line of RWD cars is never, never coming back.

[post="42654"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Besides Hummer (strictly because of the H3), Saturn was the one division that increased in sales in October.

This may sound heretical to some, but maybe GM is wise to invest in Saturn at the expense of Buick and Pontiac.

[thegriffon]

Never say never. with escalating health costs, diminishing market share and potentially enormous pension shortfalls it could be inevitable unless a radical deal is made with the UAW. Rather than playing hardball with GM they should be lobbying government for a solution - whether it be a $1000 surchage on every new vehicle sold in the US or a broader restructuring of corporate pesin plans.

[Cortazzo]

GM can and very well might go bankrupt. 10 years ago no one ever thought Toyota would overtake GM globally in sales, and it could happen next year. Ford and GM need to cut serious capacity, and toyota is building new factories every years. This isn't a pretty situation for our home team. If GM sells off 51% of GMAC, it loses it's excuse to not be profitable making cars. It's going to be really hard for GM to stand a grand turnaround when they are shedding staff like crazy, do you think anyone with half a brain is going to want to stick around and wait for a pink slip? And no new young talent is making its way to 'the tubes' either. I think GM needs to give up the ghost on being the largest producer of passenger cars in the world. What it should do is create a large parts bin of flexible parts and systems, and give each brand a great deal of autonomy to bolt different combinations of them together to meet market needs. Example, pontiac (the 'sporty' brand) has fairly bland engines in most of its lineup. How about using a parts bin turbo-ecotec instead of a 3.5 HV engine? Turbos are generally considered to be sportier than a mildly tuned 6, and it could give a little more credibility to the g6 lineup for example. Buick should have access to the general's wealth of high feature 6's and v8's of all sorts because most luxury buyers expect effortless acceleration in their rides. GM has a large global pool of platforms to use, from large to small in all drive configurations. We should be able to build a basic chasis anywhere in the GM global empire and ship it to any global facility for final assembly. RWD's should be shipped from Australia, sporty FWD chasis should be sent in from europe, and we should be sending pickup and SUV chasis globally. GM has squandered their global size advantage up until recently, hopefully they'll wake up soon and take advantage of their resources.