Motor Authority: An Opel Insignia Rebadge For Cadillac?

[cire]

I don't know if the info in this article is just speculated rumor or an actual fact based on a reliable source (I know quite a bit of internet "news" is more of the former than latter). I think the Insignia is a great product, but it belongs at B-P-G. If Cadillac is going to receive an Epsilon based model to slot below the CTS (which I believe it will at some point; I don't believe the corporation will follow through with the Alpha platform), then it should have its own unique "Art & Science" inspired design.

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Source: Motor Authority

I still don't quite get the great debate over offering the 2010 LaCrosse and the Insignia in the same lineup. The Insignia is a smaller car based on the SWB Epsilon II platform. The LaCrosse is a larger car based on the LWB Epsilon II platform. The way these website articles make it sound, the 2 products are essentially the same car when they actually are not. I think there is room for both products at B-P-G. An Insignia based Regal would be the midsize premium sedan while the 2010 LaCrosse would serve as the large flagship sedan of the B-P-G sales channel. I just wish that GM would stop tripping up by second guessing themselves and just follow through with a plan. It seems like they waste too much effort and resources analyzing everything, but never fully executing or accomplishing anything. For heaven's sake, just get on with it!

[Robert Hall]

Blarch. Please, no FWD sedans for Cadillac...leave the mainstream to C-B-P.

[cire]

Blarch. Please, no FWD sedans for Cadillac...leave the mainstream to C-B-P.

Just a bit of a reality check: I think most or all of Cadillac's future products will end up on some variation of Epsilon, Theta, or Lambda. Future development on Kappa and Zeta is dead. I seriously doubt that GM will continue to support Sigma solely for the CTS line; I think the current CTS line will be the last of the Sigma based products. Alpha has been delayed; I think GM will take the cowardly route and cancel it too. It just doesn't look good for the future of RWD for GM. I don't like it or necessarily agree with it, but I think it is the sad reality.

I do hope that logical minds prevail and the Insignia is placed in B-P-G where it belongs.

[Intrepidation]

FWD Cadillacs means we'll go back to teh 90's when Caddy has no respect. The Sigma platform has single handedly brought the brand back. Why not just continue to update it? It's world class already, I see no reason to replace it with an inferior platform, and no need to start over with a new one.

If GM really does make the Cadillac lineup all FWD I will lose all hope for the company.

[smk4565]

That is another FAIL for Cadillac. No Cadillac should be front drive or have a transversely mounted engine. The CTS could be the last rear drive Cadillac, which is very sad.

[FAPTurbo]

A FWD Cadillac will only cause journalists to bring up the Cimarron for the eleventy billionth time, and since it's from Europe, they'll just liken it to the Catera as well. Keep this sort of product for Buick, or Cadillac will never get any respect.

[Robert Hall]

FWD Cadillacs means we'll go back to teh 90's when Caddy has no respect. The Sigma platform has single handedly brought the brand back. Why not just continue to update it? It's world class already, I see no reason to replace it with an inferior platform, and no need to start over with a new one.

If GM really does make the Cadillac lineup all FWD I will lose all hope for the company.

If they go all FWD, maybe with some AWD, it means they've set their focus on Lincoln, and maybe a bit of the Acura and Volvo market, as well as the lesser Lexuses. They will have given up on competing in the big leagues.

Edited March 13, 2009 by moltar

[vonVeezelsnider]

Oh god no.

[Intrepidation]

Which is completely stupid, because the CTS-V shows Cadillac can beat them all. Why the hell would they give that up? Buick is supposed to be for Acura/Lincoln anyway.

[Robert Hall]

Yes, but these may indeed be the End Times for GM, the final downward spiral into oblivion... it's all about short-term survival right now, by sacrificing the future..

[Intrepidation]

GM is just killing itself then; not the media, not the public.

[Robert Hall]

GM is just killing itself then; not the media, not the public.

I've long thought GM was it's own worst enemy..people try and blame the media, Toyota, the unions, the government, I think they majority of their problems lie within.

[SoCalCTS]

A FWD Cadillac is better than no new product at all.

I wonder if GM has considered setting up Cadillac as a semi-Independent company? Then it would be possible for them to purchase BMW engines or partner with another competitor like Alfa Romeo.

[Brougham-Holiday]

I've long thought GM was it's own worst enemy..people try and blame the media, Toyota, the unions, the government, I think they majority of their problems lie within.

I second that. Almost every issue GM has (high cost, uncompetitive products, poor resale values, angry customers, bad image, and piss poor marketing) are their own doing.

This is it, why is it that Ford is building their best products in years, and I have more faith in Chrysler then I do in GM? We are watching the slow death of an American giant.

[NOS2006]

A&S is hard, edgy lines and all Cadillac.

Opel Insignia is soft lines and very Buick. WTF?

[Intrepidation]

A FWD Cadillac is better than no new product at all.

I wonder if GM has considered setting up Cadillac as a semi-Independent company? Then it would be possible for them to purchase BMW engines or partner with another competitor like Alfa Romeo.

Not really if the new products is sub par for the brand. Then again it's probably that logic that got us the Cimarron. "Better to have a small piece of $h! than no small car" That's went over well, even 20 years later.

[smk4565]

DTS already ruins any credibility they have against BMW and Benz, a front drive SRX will drag it down more, and as soon as they get the Epsilon sedans out, Cadillac will be Lincoln/Acura at best, but Acura will hold the advantage in perceived reliability because Honda makes it. Cadillac needs at least 3 unique rear drive platforms if they are coming to compete with BMW and Benz.

[SoCalCTS]

Not really if the new products is sub par for the brand. Then again it's probably that logic that got us the Cimarron. "Better to have a small piece of $h! than no small car" That's went over well, even 20 years later.

Insignia = Cimarron ??? I think not. The Cimarron sucked because it was a glorified Cavalier.

No one is suggesting a Cobalt based Cadillac here.

[Robert Hall]

Ok, maybe not a Cimmaron, but a Lexus ES equivalent-- a FWD entry lux generic based off a mass market FWD sedan. Nothing significant. Such a car would help Cadillac compete with Lincoln maybe, but hardly M-B or BMW.

Edited March 12, 2009 by moltar

[Intrepidation]

Ok, maybe not a Cimmaron, but a Lexus ES equivalent-- a FWD entry lux generic based off a mass market FWD sedan. Nothing significant. Such a car would help Cadillac compete with Lincoln maybe, but hardly M-B or BMW.

Yup, and what the hell would the point be? The new LaCrosse is supposed to compete with teh ES. This would be another example of in house competition.

[Robert Hall]

Yup, and what the hell would the point be? The new LaCrosse is supposed to compete with teh ES. This would be another example of in house competition.

Exactly...but Cadillac dealers probably now worry about Buick dealers stealing sales from them and vice versa.

[Intrepidation]

Insignia = Cimarron ??? I think not. The Cimarron sucked because it was a glorified Cavalier.

No one is suggesting a Cobalt based Cadillac here.

Not yet anyway.

The Insginia isn't a piece of crap, but the logic remains the same "Why be the best when we can just be "meh", and compete with Buick while we're at it!"

[smk4565]

LaCrosse is supposed to start around $25k, so it won't be competing with Lincoln or Lexus, but rather the Avalon, maybe V6 Chrysler 300. They could make another front drive Cadillac to replace the DTS to compete with Lincoln and Lexus, but why bother. Cadillac should be rear drive, any front drive product is inferior to a BMW, Benz or Jaguar.

[Intrepidation]

Unless you've been under a rock, nearly every article about the LaCrosse has stated that it is aimed squarely at the ES. If it undercuts it in price then by all mean, but it it targeted at the likes of the ES, MKS, and TL.

[Oracle of Delphi]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/12/weve-he...adillac-insign/

Nice photoshop ...

[Intrepidation]

Not really.

[G. David Felt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/12/weve-he...adillac-insign/

Nice photoshop ...

That is way too ugly, even a bad photoshop job as it just DOES NOT WORK!

At this point, to keep from destroying Cadillac, NO product is better than a $h!ty half ass FWD Job!

[Lamar]

If they go all FWD, maybe with some AWD, it means they've set their focus on Lincoln, and maybe a bit of the Acura and Volvo market, as well as the lesser Lexuses. They will have given up on competiting in the big leagues.

Everyone forgets about Audi...

[cire]

A&S is hard, edgy lines and all Cadillac.

Opel Insignia is soft lines and very Buick. WTF?

This is the main issue I have with it as well. A rebadged Insignia dilutes the distinctiveness Cadillac has established with its "Art & Science" styling theme. Everyone may not like it or appreciate it, but it has become distinctly "Cadillac". The Insignia's lines fit in better with Buick's styling direction. If GM gives Buick a well executed Delta based compact sedan, then Buick will have a nice three tier premium sedan lineup. The Delta based sedan would be the compact offering, the Insignia-based Regal would be the midsize offering, and the 2010 LaCrosse (still needs a name change, by the way) would be the brand's flagship sedan offering. Over and done; what's so mind boggling about it GM?

I could see GM developing a SWB Eps II based compact series for Cadillac, but it should be smaller than the Insignia to properly slot below the CTS, AWD, and proudly sporting the division's edgy "Art & Science" design theme. I still believe GM will drop Alpha platform development like a hot potato (although I agree with many of you that it will be a major mistake); this would at least provide a next best thing alternative (at least much better than a rebadged Insignia).

[FAPTurbo]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/12/weve-he...adillac-insign/

Nice photoshop ...

Man, that's terrible. A&S just doesn't mix with it. With a Buick badge however, it'd be a beauty.

[cire]

A FWD Cadillac is better than no new product at all.

Yes and no. A properly executed product that would retain Cadillac's distinctive qualities would be. A rebadged Opel product (no matter how great it may be) would not be.

One other thing that I wondered: GM and apparently the auto press seem to be so concerned with an Insignia-based Regal competing with the 2010 LaCrosse, but why wouldn't they be equally worried about an Insignia-based Cadillac competing with the CTS? They are both relatively sporty midsize sedans. I think putting a rebadged Insignia in Cadillac showrooms would ultimately only serve to diminish CTS sales (as well as dilute Cadillac's distinctive image) instead of bringing new customers into Cadillac showrooms. An Insignia-based Regal could have an opposite, much more positive effect on Buick, though. I don't have a problem with GM leveraging their global assets to fix their NA business, but they need to make wise decisions when placing these products.

[Robert Hall]

Everyone forgets about Audi...

Yes, but Audi is mostly all AWD in the US...Audi is all about Quattro.. so it's different...and they aren't based off of mass market FWD models (except for the A3).

[Lamar]

Yes, but Audi is mostly all AWD in the US...Audi is all about Quattro.. so it's different...and they aren't based off of mass market FWD models (except for the A3).

Actually, every Audi (except the R8) can be had in FWD across the pond. We just get the most tarted-up models on this side (well, except the RS6...) They have the A8 available with a 2.8L V6 over there... and not available with quattro.

I see your point, though, about sharing platforms with mass-market vehicles.

Somehow I picture this as a more global strategy for GM... adding to their Cadillac line over there as well. However, doesn't mean I like it.

[Robert Hall]

Actually, every Audi (except the R8) can be had in FWD across the pond.

Doesn't matter...at least 90% or more of Audis in the US have Quattro.

Somehow I picture this as a more global strategy for GM... adding to their Cadillac line over there as well. However, doesn't mean I like it.

Pointless...Cadillac is dead in Europe..they already tried the FWD BLS and it tanked.

[cire]

Pointless...Cadillac is dead in Europe..they already tried the FWD BLS and it tanked.

I love the CTS and would easily choose it over any similar offering from BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. That being said, it has been as much of a miserable failure in Europe as the much maligned (with good reason) FWD BLS and it is RWD (the CTS, that is). The European market is fiercely loyal to their homegrown "old world" brands. Even Lexus and Infiniti are struggling to catch on there.

Edited March 13, 2009 by cire

[Blake Noble]

Man, that's terrible. A&S just doesn't mix with it. With a Buick badge however, it'd be a beauty.

Well said.

I don't want to beat the dead horse ... but I'm going to anyway: front-wheel drive cars based off of mainstream car platforms DO NOT have a place at a luxury brand.

I'm going to have a phone number on stand-by, for Cadillac's tombstone.

[cire]

Somehow I picture this as a more global strategy for GM... adding to their Cadillac line over there as well. However, doesn't mean I like it.

I would hope GM wouldn't add a rebadged Insignia to Cadillac's lineup in Europe or China as this car is already present in those markets as an Opel and a Buick, respectively. I think a rebadged Insignia would only appear in Cadillac's North American lineup (although this would be a seriously misguided decision for GM and Cadillac in NA; this car should be a Buick).

Then again, GM has done much more foolish things than this in the past.

[cire]

I don't want to beat the dead horse ... but I'm going to anyway: front-wheel drive cars based off of mainstream car platforms DO NOT have a place at a luxury brand.

If the 2010 SRX fails, it will not do so because it's based on a FWD platform. It will fail for one of 3 reasons: 1) GM didn't execute it properly, 2) Brand snobs will wrongly avoid it because it's a Cadillac (which is stupid, IMHO; the Lexus RX has nothing on this CUV), or 3) The unstable economy will undermine its success. I don't think the general public will give much thought to whether the vehicle is RWD or FWD; they will focus more on whether it is well executed, properly equipped for the luxury segment, and meets the quality/reliability standards of the luxury segment.

I would love to see Cadillac become a focused RWD luxury car division, but I seriously doubt it will happen. The best thing I can hope for is that GM properly executes the vehicles it gives the division, no matter which set of wheels drives the vehicle. Simply slapping a Cadillac badge on a vehicle that was clearly not designed or styled to be a Cadillac (such as the Insignia) is just wrong and dilutes the distinctiveness of the brand. All of GM's efforts to differentiate Cadillac with the CTS and the brand's "Art & Science" design theme will be swept away by the first blatant rebadge clone that GM stuffs into the brand's lineup.

[smk4565]

Audis have longitudinally mounted engines though, and most are near 55/45 weight balance, not 60/40 or worse like many front drive cars. Secondly, none of Audis products are as good as BMWs. Class for class the BMW offers the better handling and performing car.

Cadillac didn't even hit 200,000 sales globally last year. They'll never compete with front drivers, no one outside of the US gives Cadillac any respect what so ever. Cadillac is supposed to be the best, front drive is not the best, pushrods and 4-speed autos are not the best, Chevy platform SUVs are not the best. Cadillac has become just another mediocre GM brand with little hope of a future.

[smk4565]

If the 2010 SRX fails, it will not do so because it's based on a FWD platform. It will fail for one of 3 reasons: 1) GM didn't execute it properly, 2) Brand snobs will wrongly avoid it because it's a Cadillac (which is stupid, IMHO; the Lexus RX has nothing on this CUV), or 3) The unstable economy will undermine its success.

1. Since it is front drive, it isn't executed properly (look at the drive wheels on the X3, X5, X6, ML350, GLK350)

2. Lexus has reputation, reliability, and resale value. Cadillac should double their warranty and kill the DTS and rebuild their brand image. Luxury business is all about brand image

3. Everyone is facing the same economy, so it is an even playing field, economy isn't an excuse if the SRX tanks.

[Robert Hall]

1. Since it is front drive, it isn't executed properly (look at the drive wheels on the X3, X5, X6, ML350, GLK350)

Correct, the serious luxury SUVs from BMW, Merc, Land Rover/Range Rover are all RWD/AWD. The RX is in the entry-lux market, along with the MDX and MKX... Cadillac is aiming at this low end (albeit high volume) end of the lux market, not the big leagues. Even Infiniti aims higher. IMHO, RWD/AWD SUVs on dedicated platforms are automatically superior to FWD/AWD generics, but the masses want their FWD..

Edited March 13, 2009 by moltar

[smk4565]

Here's a novel idea for Cadillac, why not make an MKX or RX sized crossover that is rear drive so Cadillac actually has a clear advantage over them. And offer 8 speed rather than 6, diesel and hybrid variants, etc. To just build another front drive clone of what is already out there isn't going to achieve anything.

[Robert Hall]

Here's a novel idea for Cadillac, why not make an MKX or RX sized crossover that is rear drive so Cadillac actually has a clear advantage over them. And offer 8 speed rather than 6, diesel and hybrid variants, etc. To just build another front drive clone of what is already out there isn't going to achieve anything.

Novel idea, but at this point, GM has no money to do anything beyond the status quo..

[Oracle of Delphi]

Didn't I tell you the EP IIs are the W cars of our time ??? Hmmmmm ???

[§carlet §wordfish]

But Cadillac never had a W car, either.

[Robert Hall]

But Cadillac never had a W car, either.

Not yet... maybe they will move the DTS to the W platform! After all, the Impala is going to be W for another 10 years probably.

[smk4565]

Cadillac is supposed to be the best; 4-speed autos, pushrods, Chevy platforms, Northstar from the 90s, front drive cars, etc are not the best. BMW's oldest platforms came out for 2004 (1-series, X3 and 5-series). The 5-series gets a new platform for 2010, I believe the X3 gets redone for 2011. Cadillac has a G-body from the 1990s, Sigma from 2003, and GMT900 from 2006. M-B has 7-speeds and diesels, Lexus has 8-speed and hybrids. Cadillac isn't exactly keeping pace in technology.

[cletus8269]

i would rather have that pushrod reliabilty and simplicity than worry about dohc any day. i watched the guys on hot rod ste up the timing on a mustang cobra motor with dohc and was like screw that. they didnt evern do it they let a guy from rousch do it for them. by the way, that LS9 still seems to be making waves. its little brother the LSX series is devistatingly bullet proof.

from feb issue of chevy rumble

GM helped build four project cars to test this performance and reliability. The first was an ’02 Trans-Am fitted with a naturally aspirated 454-inch LSX Bowtie block and factory-style fuel injection. That package produced over 600 hp, yet also produced 24 mpg in more than 2,000 miles of driving this car on the street. Next, GM teamed with Thomson Automotive to build a 428-inch LSX engine mated to an Eaton 2300 supercharger. This build was good for over 900 hp, and the engine went in a tiny Solstice convertible. Another project was Robin Lawrence’s NMCA Nostalgia Pro Street Nova. Engine parts included a Bowtie block, LSX heads, sheetmetal intake, twin Dominator carburetors and a heavy dose of nitrous. The 9,000-rpm engine makes 930 hp as an all-motor application, and a whopping 1,400 hp with the nitrous engaged—good for 7.79 at 179 mph in the quarter-mile.

Finally, the baddest of all the LSX mules was a 400cid-LSX-equipped ’96 Impala SS. The engine was fitted with all forged internals and twin 88mm Turbonetics turbochargers that produced 27 psi of boost. The engine was subjected to more than 80 dyno passes, which indicated more than 2,050 hp from this twin-turbo LSX engine combination!

full story.

like it or not pushrods are gonna be here for a long time. i will never understand how they are unrefined.

P.S. i forgot to mention 8sp transmissions are just overkill unless you are towing or something. its like hunting squirrels with a m16, yeah you can do it but do you really need to?

Edited March 13, 2009 by cletus8269

[Robert Hall]

i would rather have that pushrod reliabilty and simplicity than worry about dohc any day. i watched the guys on hot rod ste up the timing on a mustang cobra motor with dohc and was like screw that. they didnt evern do it they let a guy from rousch do it for them. by the way, that LS9 still seems to be making waves. its little brother the LSX series is devistatingly bullet proof.

<blah blah blah>

Umm...you are talking about hot rodder stuff...the typical luxury car buyer (i.e. target Cadillac market) doesn't care about any of that. All they know is DOHC = more cams 32 valves= more valves i.e. more = better

more complex->more expensive->more luxurious. And a perception of smoother, more refined (which they often are).

Like it or not, pushrods and 4spd automatics are too old school for that market. I'm not sure why one would 'worry' about DOHC either, I've never had problems with DOHC engines (nor have I had problems with OHV engines).

(My favorite engines of cars I've owned are the Ford 5.0 V8 and the BMW DOHC straight 6).

Edited March 13, 2009 by moltar

[ZL-1]

Yes, finally the Cadillac I've been waiting for! This and the cancelation of the 2.9L diesel V6 (according to www.saabsunited.com) will surely win Cadillac tons of sales outside of the US, especially in Europe!