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End of the Road

Intrepidation

By Intrepidation
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Intrepidation

Intrepidation

Posted
Posted

So after sitting at the shop for over a week, they finally looked over the Intrepid. For those of you who don't know, it's been parked in the driveway since late November, when on our way home we could hear the timing chains contacting things they shouldn't because they were so loose. So it rested quietly for the winter, besides when I went out to start it, until I could get it fixed.

I got a call around 2 telling me to come down to the shop. What they showed me was that the oil was milky...which meant that the headgasket had failed. How long ago it failed I'm not sure, but odds are it's been long enough to do damage. This, coupled with the fact that it needs timing chains, and burns some oil, is the final nail in the coffin.

I'm saddened very disheartened, as I'm less than 4,000 miles away from 200,000 original miles. It seems even more....unfair, if you will, that it has to end this way when the engine runs like it has 10,000 miles on it...it runs so well that several of the shop people asked why the car was being worked on in the first place.

I suppose the term ticking time bomb applies here then. You'd never know it by listening, but as is, the engine is very close to death....which sucks. Add one more 2.7 to the list. If nothing else at least it made it to almost 200,000 miles. Many cars never even get that far. It still sucks though.

So what's next? Tomorrow they put the "new" front tires on it, and give it a Rejection sticker. It has to be driven around again before it can pass inspection. I'll probably just drive it around locally and hope nothing happens.

Despite this setback, I'm undeterred. In fact, this made deciding what to do with the car much easier. I had always planned, since the day I bought it, that if the engine ever went, I would swap it out for one of the bigger, better engines. So tomorrow the hunt begins for a used 3.2L. I wouldn't mind a 3.5 but the 3.2 is a nice compromise. It makes less power than the 3.5 but more than the 2.7, it doesn't have any of the issues the 2.7's do, its computer will give my transmission better gear ratios, and the fuel economy penalty is minimal. Best of all, it costs less than a 2.7.

This also plays in my favor because I need a new compressor for my car anyway. Swapping engines means I'll end up with compressor for the 3.2, fixing that problem.

So now the hunt begins for a 3.2 complete engine drop. Wish me luck on finding a nice, low miles one.

As the journey of this car's life draws to a close, it shall be reborn stronger, faster, better than it ever was.

Satty Newbie

Satty

Posted
Posted

Good luck. Engine swaps are a blast. The secret lair is quite the sight to see, two giant old Olds blocks sitting there, stripped down to nothing, parts everywhere, and the poor, lonely Buick with no hood and no engine. And no doors.

On the bright side, you dont need the Intrepid right now (at least I assume, since its been sitting for months) so you cant take your time.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Thanks. Yeah, we have the Prizm and the Grand Marquis. Shadow's sitting this winter out.

From what I've read (there's lots of material on the web). Swapping a 2.7 to a 3.2 or 3.5 is basically plug `n play. Everything bolts right up. The only thing that has to be modified is the exhaust connection. Just have to make sure to get a complete engine drop, and that it's the correct year range (1998-2001).

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted

Sorry to hear to that...hope you can get it back on the road. I'm hoping I can get 200k out of the 4.0 in my Jeep, only 97k now.

ocnblu Newbie

ocnblu

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Transmission ratios are a mechanical thing, not an electronic thing. They cannot be made "better" by a computer swap.:huh:

Good luck in finding a decent 3.2 and getting it installed.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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I'm just going by what a guy who has done this before said:

ECU/Transmission:

The 2.7 ECU will operate a 3.2/3.5 engine without problems. The 3.2/3.5 wiring harnesses will plug right into the 2.7 car and computer.

The transmission will also bolt right up. All LH models were equipped with the 42LE. You will gain a gear ratio advantage as well, because the 2.7 vehicles had a 3.89 ratio, and the 3.2/3.5 models had a 3.66 ratio.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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The 3.2 is going to give you the same problems as the 2.7. I would look into a newer 3.5 if I were you.

I've only heard that twice, and it was both on C&G. I'd like to know how and why? Last person claimed the 3.2 is similar to the 2.7 which it isn't...like at all. However if you've got some info I'm happy to listen, since info gathering is always good.

ocnblu Newbie

ocnblu

Posted
Posted (edited)
Dodgefan, the only way the ratios change is if the transaxle is changed, or at the very least if the internals are swapped out of the case. Perhaps the guy did a full engine/trans swap. As far as 3.66 v. 3.89, the lower the number, the slower the engine spins, therefore pointing toward better fuel mileage. A higher number will give better torque multiplication and better off the line power, but will make the engine spin faster at a given speed, pointing toward worse fuel mileage. Edited by ocnblu
G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

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Good Luck DF on the engine swap Project. Take pictures and keep us posted as to the change out and details of the work. :)

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Sludge Swap for Dummies? :neenerneener:

And I'll go on record right now as saying you'll probably regret re-using the transmission without having it rebuilt. Those things aren't exactly known for being indestructible.

You have a point, considering the miles on it. I'm open to looking at what sort of deals can be had for a combo...just have the whoel damn powertrain cropped.

Satty Newbie

Satty

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Check all your options, 3.2 and 3.5 with and without transmission. Even if you do pull the transmission out of a wrecked car or something, it would still be a crap shoot. There is a reason I go with the numbers, the numbers never lie.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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The 2.7 liter engine originally had a tendency to generate sludge which caused engine failure. Similar problems have been appearing on Toyota and Volkswagen engines. We were told that, shortly after the first reported cases, Chrysler isolated the problem to the crankcase ventilation system; hydrocarbons were entering the oil and breaking down the additives. This problem has been solved (around 2002-2004), and the number of engine failures appears to be small. However, if you have an engine that might have this problem, frequent (4,000 mile) oil changes, vigilance, and crankcase ventilation system maintenance (or replacement with newer parts?) may be an answer. We have been getting numerous reports from readers complaining that Chrylser is not standing behind these engines.

bolded part = :rotflmao:

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Check all your options, 3.2 and 3.5 with and without transmission. Even if you do pull the transmission out of a wrecked car or something, it would still be a crap shoot. There is a reason I go with the numbers, the numbers never lie.

Yeah, Chrysler's transmissions tend to be hit or miss, although I hear less about the 42LE having problems. I've had no issues with mine thus far, and it's still good...so I could reuse it if need be. But yeah, "all options are on the table."

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Of course if I wanted to be insane and had the know-how, I could do a RWD, V8 conversion. Apparently it's been done....crap load of work though. I'm looking for something more economical. :P

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

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Of course if I wanted to be insane and had the know-how, I could do a RWD, V8 conversion. Apparently it's been done....crap load of work though. I'm looking for something more economical. :P

That would be interesting..no doubt a lot of work and $$$...I'd love to see an Intrepid SRT8, for example..

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Just buy a Millenia. Remember: Rock > Millenia > Aurora > 530i > Everything Else. :P

Yeah, but even as is my car still runs better....until the engine craps the bed. :P

Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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Damn dude... [sorry]

As they say, whenever one door closes another one opens. :wink:

----

The only electronic "modification" that a different ECM or other computer can do

is to change the SHIFT points, like for instance when I gave you a ride in the

735iL and I romped on it a few times I forgot to click the button over to SPORT

mode, and since it was left in ECONOMY mode it shifted well before its redline,

even the times I gave it WOT.

But as O.B. pointed out the guy prob. meant he did a motor & TRANS swap,

thus changing out the gear ratio.

Despite all of the electronic tom-foolery they try these days with new cars

a computer cannot magically change the number of teeth in a metal gear.

Same as displacement on demand does not make your V8 a V4, it just

RUNS on four cylinders.

I got lucky with my 25 year old Mercedes, even oil starvation could not

kill that beast of a car... although the SOHC V8 does have quite the tick.

The Panzer Hardtop is at 204,000 miles now.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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I don't know, but the timing chains are definitely at the point where they need to be replaced. I'm just going to drive it around locally end enjoy it until I find donor engine. I miss driving it, plus it needs to get some miles on it to be inspected.

daves87rs Collaborator

daves87rs

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<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jewzO6fkPDg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jewzO6fkPDg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jewzO6fkPDg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>

You should be thinking with your dipstick!!!!!

:lol:

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Maybe this clears up what he was referring to about the gearing...?

The transfer gear ratios are different, 2.7 is 3.89 and 3.2/3.5 trans is 3.66. They both are identical transmissions except for the transfer gears behind the rear cover.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong...perhaps what he means is that the 2.7 transmissions had better gear ratios than the 3.2/3.5? Honestly, I'm not that good with the understanding of how gear ratios work....I should look it up so I understand it better. Or and expert here can explain it.

Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

Posted
Posted
Maybe this clears up what he was referring to about the gearing...?

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong...perhaps what he means is that the 2.7 transmissions had better gear ratios than the 3.2/3.5? Honestly, I'm not that good with the understanding of how gear ratios work....I should look it up so I understand it better. Or and expert here can explain it.

It's confusing the whole TALL gear versus. SHORT.

The simpe part is the physics of it... gear ratios

are all math, once you've settled on a final drive

it WILL determine mpg/0-60/top speed & that's

that.... you can't really call even the 300M to be

a gas hog though, so I say to hell with it, just

get the 3.5 with the shortest gear trans. :)

z28luvr01 Newbie

z28luvr01

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I know you were thinking of dropping in some 300m parts into various places, so you might want to look into getting a wrecked 300m and pull out what you want. FWIW, my father had a 93 Eagle Vision with the 3.5, and it ran great until he inadvertently went into a huge puddle at highway speeds (at night in a rainstorm) and water rushed into the intake and snapped the #3 rod.

Good luck with whatever route you go, and I hope it gets back on the road in no time.

capriceman Newbie

capriceman

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My theory on Chrysler/Dodge Transmission is that people get there trans serviced withe the wrong fluid. Dodge has there own fluid. While most use the other stuff. I think people unknowingly add the wrong type and this just causes catastrophic trans failure. I have heard of several cases were people would get their trans serviced then 4-5 months later there trans just crapping out. i think dodge fluid is more slick than the other stuff that gm and ford uses which is a little gritty. This my own theory. I have seen a intrepid and 300m both roll 230,000 miles just fine with normal stuff. Trans-never touched. I saw 2 300c's die at 120k both had trans work one at a Midas the other at a kwikielube type place.

G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

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DF, If you can find a clean used 3.2 or 3.5 with the trans, I would go for the matched set and enjoy it as a frugal swap. This will probably give you the least amount of trouble.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Picked it up today, with the "new" front tires, oil change, and lovely R sticker on it. I was greeted by the battery being said. Feel the love!

So I took it for a drive to recharge the battery. I don't like the Continental tires...they're noisy...but at least they're safer than bald tires, and the car drives straight again.

I missed driving it. Basically I'll just drive and enjoy (no road trips) until a donor pops up, and keep an eye on the oil.

CMG Newbie

CMG

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Posted (edited)
Maybe this clears up what he was referring to about the gearing...?

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong...perhaps what he means is that the 2.7 transmissions had better gear ratios than the 3.2/3.5? Honestly, I'm not that good with the understanding of how gear ratios work....I should look it up so I understand it better. Or and expert here can explain it.

Swapping the engines in that scenario will give you more cubes as well as a gearing advantage. It would be a harder accelerating car then the 3.5 donor vehicle if you use your 3.89 (stock 2.7) gears.

Have a look at this Dodgefan...

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151694

Edited by CMG
Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Yeah, I'ma member there and have been to that thread several times. Apparently he (Daytrepper) sells a manual detailing how to do a swap. I'm gonna pick it up I think.

I'm going to go ahead and look for a rear ended 300M that I can get for cheap. If I can do that, I'll try sell off the transmission I have (it's got a lot of miles but still perfectly good).

Kinda sucks...last year there was a wrecked but running 300M on Craigslist for $500.

Satty Newbie

Satty

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yeah, I'ma member there and have been to that thread several times. Apparently he (Daytrepper) sells a manual detailing how to do a swap. I'm gonna pick it up I think.

I'm going to go ahead and look for a rear ended 300M that I can get for cheap. If I can do that, I'll try sell off the transmission I have (it's got a lot of miles but still perfectly good).

Kinda sucks...last year there was a wrecked but running 300M on Craigslist for $500.

Any auto auctions nearby? There is one here that is open to the public Thursday nights, that might be as good a bet as anything.

Edit: Your best bet would be to steal a 300M, strip what you want quickly and dump the rest.

Edited by Satty
caddycruiser Newbie

caddycruiser

Posted
Posted
Yeah, I'ma member there and have been to that thread several times. Apparently he (Daytrepper) sells a manual detailing how to do a swap. I'm gonna pick it up I think.

I'm going to go ahead and look for a rear ended 300M that I can get for cheap. If I can do that, I'll try sell off the transmission I have (it's got a lot of miles but still perfectly good).

Kinda sucks...last year there was a wrecked but running 300M on Craigslist for $500.

There's one here in Delaware with some driver's door and fender damage for $750 on Craigslist, local. Has some miles, though, so something like this wouldn't be worth it really. Looks JUST like the '00 M we had for 18k miles some years ago...

http://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/1063551611.html

You'll find a good swap for a good price, before long, somewhere.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

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Yeah, once I get a new battery it'll be driveable at least. I'll probably just give it request oil changes to offset the leaking head gasket, and keep the car around town.

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