LeftLane News: Cadillac DT7 Flagship Sedan To Be Based On FWD Platform.

[cire]

This appeared on LeftLane News today concerning the "DT7", the flagship sedan replacement for the DTS/STS in Cadillac's lineup. If it is true, then it won't be good news to many who want the brand to have RWD based products only.

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Source: LeftLane News

[Camino LS6]

Suicide.

[Blake Noble]

What a shame. Cadillac, for a large majority, was doing so well too.

Better to just cancel the whole DT7 program than to execute it this way.

If the top-drawer Cadillac is the CTS for a while, so be it. At least it is a world-class product and a legitimate contender.

[Intrepidation]

Wow, GM really is just trying to run itself into the ground if this is true.

[FAPTurbo]

Didn't they learn from last time?! Nice work GM, you'll be on par with Acura.

[Blake Noble]

If it ain't front-drive, it ain't THE STANDARD OF THE WORLD!

[Intrepidation]

LOL we could star t a Cadillac thread next...

[Oracle of Delphi]

Was that Chris Doane's name I saw on that article?

[FAPTurbo]

ITS TEH STANDARDZ OF TEH WORLDZ

[Blake Noble]

Well, well, well. Let's all just back the fun bus the f@#k up here fellas. I believe I've found the STANDARD OF THE WORLD!

Edited February 27, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[Robert Hall]

At least it would be step up from the DTS--maybe even have a 6 speed automatic instead of the ancient 4 speed? But what name--DT7 is lame.

But, a large FWD/AWD Cadillac could be competitive with Lincoln, since the MKS is FWD/AWD.

Edited February 27, 2009 by moltar

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well, well, well. Let's all just back the fun bus the f@#k up here fellas. I believe I've found the STANDARD OF THE WORLD!

It looks like the BLS ...

[Blake Noble]

It looks like BulLShit ...

Fixed.

[Intrepidation]

Looks like a Saab.

Honestly, why the hell go through all the trouble of building the brand back up, just to flush it back down the toilet? I mean, teh CTS has highhandedly brought the brand respectability, and the right to be called The Standard of the World. Imagine what a 2nd car equally good would do? BUt no....GM is f@#king retarded, and thinks that FWD is what luxury buyers want. Ask Acura how RL sales have been doing.

[regfootball]

i think they are assuming a couple things.

1) any lux car must be sold AWD going forward and so why bother with anything RWD bias if more of their cars are to be FWD to start with

2) they feel regulations going forward on emissions and mpg can only be met with lighter duty platforms

3) they feel they can get adequate performance for the customer with suspension and steering tuning to manage the engine placement and weight distribution

to me this means not a lot of the DT7 will be FWD if they want to be taken seriously.

For me, I can never afford this car anyways. But honestly, why can GM sustain one rear bias platform?

[cire]

If it is true (the article attributes the info to the mysterious "sources within the automaker"), then I wonder if the next gen CTS line will end up on Eps II also (as well as what was supposed to be a RWD Alpha based compact Cadillac series). I can't see GM continuing to support and develop Sigma if it is going to end up carrying one product line only (mainly CTS). With the corporation's precarious financial difficulties, they may stretch Epsilon to cover as many products as possible in the future in an effort to reduce costs. Instead of Cadillac challenging Mercedes and BMW with RWD based products, maybe GM will have to refocus the division's sights on Audi instead. Losing Saab would allow GM to position Cadillac as more of an AWD luxury brand instead of a true MB/BMW competitor. My only hope now is that the resulting DT7 will not end up as a direct replacement for the geriatric DTS. Even if the car ends up on a FWD platform, it still doesn't have to be a senior-mobile. At the very least, the car should come standard with AWD and a turbocharged DI V6 engine. If the gosh darn thing can't be RWD (which I agree would be preferable), at least engineer/style/equip it to be something other than the recommended ride for AARP.

Edited February 27, 2009 by cire

[regfootball]

Well, well, well. Let's all just back the fun bus the f@#k up here fellas. I believe I've found the STANDARD OF THE WORLD!

truth is i would drive this if it were priced same as saab and available here. i like the 9-3 although a little extra leg room would be nice.

[Intrepidation]

I think GM just needs to go to one brand: Chevrolet. That's the only brand they can't screw up (well they can but it's a lot harder).

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think GM just needs to go to one brand: Chevrolet. That's the only brand they can't screw up (well they can but it's a lot harder).

Be careful what you wish for ...

[regfootball]

If it is true (the article attributes the info to the mysterious "sources within the automaker"), then I wonder if the next gen CTS line will end up on Eps II also (as well as what was supposed to be a RWD Alpha based compact Cadillac series). I can't see GM continuing to support and develop Sigma if it is going to end up carrying one product line only (mainly CTS). With the corporation's precarious financial difficulties, they may stretch Epsilon to cover as many products as possible in the future in an effort to reduce costs. Instead of Cadillac challenging Mercedes and BMW with RWD based products, maybe GM will have to refocus the division's sights on Audi instead. Losing Saab would allow GM to position Cadillac as more of an AWD luxury brand instead of a true MB/BMW competitor. My only hope now is that the resulting DT7 will not end up as a direct replacement for the geriatric DTS. Even if the car ends up on a FWD platform, it still doesn't have to be a senior-mobile. At the very least, the car should come standard with AWD and a turbocharged DI V6 engine. If the gosh darn thing can't be RWD (which I agree would be preferable), at least equip it to be something other than the recommended ride for AARP.

you could have read my mind with that entire post.

here is where they are going

mercedes / bmw > cadillac > acura > vw

although it troubles me a bit since audis new platforms are no longer heavy front bias. although i think audi is trying too hard to go up market too.

perhaps the world ahead will be all new. maybe rwd platforms will come close to extinction before our eyes in the next decade.

rest assured too, cadillac is trying for volume here. people, this economic crash means people won't be spending as much on luxury cars anytime soon. the luxury segment may drop down in transaction price and perhaps cadillac is only viable competing in a higher volume / lower price segment now.

so why would we need buick then? Just asking. I still wonder why Pontiac has to go.

Edited February 27, 2009 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

perhaps the world ahead will be all new. maybe rwd platforms will come close to extinction before our eyes in the next decade.

That's a disgusting thought.

[Lamar]

If Cadillac is going back to FWD, it'd be nice if they had their own dedicated platforms, much like Audi (save for the A3 and TT). I don't think they'll be trying to design longitudinal FWD/AWD, however.

[Robert Hall]

Looks like a Saab.

Honestly, why the hell go through all the trouble of building the brand back up, just to flush it back down the toilet? I mean, teh CTS has highhandedly brought the brand respectability, and the right to be called The Standard of the World. Imagine what a 2nd car equally good would do? BUt no....GM is f@#king retarded, and thinks that FWD is what luxury buyers want. Ask Acura how RL sales have been doing.

Unfortunately, GM is broke, bankrupt, on life support, etc. For them to truly make Cadillac a big league competitor on par with BMW and M-B beyond 1 model would require a tremendous investment. For now, it's all about survival, and that means FWD generics, which GM knows very well.

[Blake Noble]

truth is i would drive this if it were priced same as saab and available here. i like the 9-3 although a little extra leg room would be nice.

Give me some of what you're smoking, reg. For around the same price as the BTS, if it were sold in the States, you could get a CTS, which does have "a little extra leg room" versus the Saaballac Bull$h!. It's actually the reason why they didn't sell this particular Cadillac in America, the price overlap didn't justify its existence.

There's a reason why GME has only sold all of 4 of these in Europe: it's a turd.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

YellowJacket is making me :rotflmao:

So...

All this talk of GM doing this as a cost cutting move, yet Zeta is done and redy to rock and roll with minimal to no more investment required...

Hmmm... Typical GM. Flushing money down the toilet like it's nothing. Let's spend 100 billion dollars to develop a new AUTOMATICALLY subpar model and throw all that engineering we did 3 years ago down the drain.

[cire]

perhaps the world ahead will be all new. maybe rwd platforms will come close to extinction before our eyes in the next decade.

I truly hope the disappearance of RWD isn't an industry wide phenomenon, but it definitely is the trend as far as GM and Ford are concerned. Maybe everyone is being a little bit pessimistic here; if VW can establish Audi as a proper luxury brand with FWD based AWD sedans, then why can't GM do it with Cadillac? It will involve GM doing more to differentiate the division than they have ever done in the past (unless they want to end up losing it too); mainly vision, focus, and commitment (unfortunately, GM seems to have been lacking these three qualities for the last 30-40 years). For the sake of the corporation, I hope they can make it work. I would still prefer for Cadillac products (at least the sedans, coupes, and wagons) to be RWD, but I'm not going to doom them to failure just because the products happen to be FWD based instead. Again, I just hope GM uses some engineering and design expertise to properly differentiate Cadillac's products from the offerings of GM's other divisions (especially Buick). Cadillac certainly won't be on par with the luxury segment big dogs (mainly BMW and Mercedes) with a FWD based lineup, but it can still attempt to be more competitive within the segment than it has been in the past.

Edited February 27, 2009 by cire

[Intrepidation]

Unfortunately, GM is broke, bankrupt, on life support, etc. For them to truly make Cadillac a big league competitor on par with BMW and M-B beyond 1 model would require a tremendous investment. For now, it's all about survival, and that means FWD generics, which GM knows very well.

They have a large, RWD platform that is world class and ready to go. But some retarded dumbasses high up in GM have made it their personal mission to kill the best platform besides Sigma GM has.

[cire]

They have a large, RWD platform that is world class and ready to go. But some retarded dumbasses high up in GM have made it their personal mission to kill the best platform besides Sigma GM has.

True. GM does seem to have a talent for wasting development dollars on what ends up being disposable assets (although it is due to the corporation's lack of focus and commitment more than the quality of the assets). Zeta and Kappa are 2 obvious examples of this.

[Intrepidation]

True. GM does seem to have a talent for wasting development dollars on what ends up being disposable assets (although it is due to the corporation's lack of focus and commitment more than the quality of the assets). Zeta and Kappa are 2 obvious examples of this.

Well Kappa's problem was in it's design and limitations. Zeta didn't have that problem, it was just scraped because some jackass with a rod up butt decided he hated Holden and RWD, and he was in a high enough position with enough power to make his stupid plans work.

[Blake Noble]

For now, it's all about survival, and that means FWD generics, which GM knows very well.

Oh snap. Break out the beer, break out the Baccardi, we're gonna par-tayyyyy!

[cire]

Well Kappa's problem was in it's design and limitations. Zeta didn't have that problem, it was just scraped because some jackass with a rod up butt decided he hated Holden and RWD, and he was in a high enough position with enough power to make his stupid plans work.

Also true.

Which I guess begs the question: What moron would spend precious development dollars to create a limited platform (Kappa) for products that produce little volume and no profits for the corporation (especially when most of the corporation's essential products were below par)? I guess Kappa wouldn't really fall into the severely underutilized platform category given its severe limitations (although it definitely could be classified as a typical GM bonehead move).

Zeta, on the other hand...

[Drew Dowdell]

Unfortunately, GM is broke, bankrupt, on life support, etc. For them to truly make Cadillac a big league competitor on par with BMW and M-B beyond 1 model would require a tremendous investment. For now, it's all about survival, and that means FWD generics, which GM knows very well.

Since that's the case, just leave the DTS on the G-body and update the power train. No, it's not a 7 series, but at least it's not a Towncar.

[DBeaSSt]

With the death of Zeta, we kind of knew the STS/DTS replacement wouldn't end up rear drive. Quite sad.

There are only two reasons I'm considering an STS over a DTS and one of those is because it's not rear drive. I have no need for AWD, just reduces gas mileage from my perspective. Though I understand there are those who desire (and to a lesser degree need) the AWD capabilities. Guess I need to get my order in before they kill off the STS.

If Caddy goes FWD/AWD at least I'll have a reason to look at Lincoln again.... sigh....

Edited February 27, 2009 by DBeaSSt

[Drew Dowdell]

They have a large, RWD platform that is world class and ready to go. But some retarded dumbasses high up in GM have made it their personal mission to kill the best platform besides Sigma GM has.

I got your DT7 right here. Anyone wanna throw some Art & Science on this?

[smk4565]

No Cadillac should be front wheel drive, any credibility built with the CTS and original SRX is going to be flushed down the drain by the front drive SRX, dated DTS and the DT7. The DT7 will just be like what the Lincoln MKS is now, but it is 3 years away still. Cadillac is going to be no better than Lincoln or Acura. If Cadillac is going to use Chevy front drive platforms for cars, then Buick isn't needed, and GM should just go to 2 brands. Chevy for mainstream, Cadillac for $30-55,000.

[Intrepidation]

I don't get why they don't at the very least, stretch the Sigma platform (to be larger than the STS) and use that.

[G. David Felt]

DT7 IMO should NOT be FWD or RWD, but only AWD. That is a luxury level a car like that should have. End of story. Hopefully this is all rumor and they are not going to flush the last 3 years of engineering work down the drain do to some Morons Political schedule and personal ambition at the top.

[Robert Hall]

I don't get why they don't at the very least, stretch the Sigma platform (to be larger than the STS) and use that.

Yes, that seems the most rational approach. The biggest problem I've seen with the STS is it's way too close to the CTS in size. Use the existing platforms, they aren't ancient.

GM has two excellent, modern RWD platforms in Sigma and Zeta...and they are way under-utilized. Alas, the market wants bland FWDers, which has been GM's focus for the last 25+ years.

[G. David Felt]

FWD belongs in Chevy Only. Luxury should NEVER be FWD. Either RWD for entry level auto's and AWD for the higher end models. End of story.

[cire]

I don't get why they don't at the very least, stretch the Sigma platform (to be larger than the STS) and use that.

You would think that modified versions of Sigma would be the logical choice for the DT7 as well as the Escalade replacement. Go figure?!

[G. David Felt]

I personally HOPE that the Escalade does NOT go UniBody, otherwise my current one will probably be the last one I buy as I preferre the Body on Frame design of full size SUV's.

[smk4565]

DT7 IMO should NOT be FWD or RWD, but only AWD. That is a luxury level a car like that should have. End of story. Hopefully this is all rumor and they are not going to flush the last 3 years of engineering work down the drain do to some Morons Political schedule and personal ambition at the top.

AWD adds weight and doesn't necessarily help performance. Jaguars are rear drive, the 7-series was always rear drive only (awd will be offered) Lexus LS460 is rear wheel, Genesis is rear wheel, S-class is has optional awd. Rear wheel will always be the superior drivetrain, that is why the Corvette isn't front wheel or all wheel drive.

[Intrepidation]

FWD belongs in Chevy Only. Luxury should NEVER be FWD. Either RWD for entry level auto's and AWD for the higher end models. End of story.

AWD should be an option but has no need to be standard. Most AWD systems add weight, and there are many who prefer RWD only VS AWD.

[Robert Hall]

AWD should be an option but has no need to be standard. Most AWD systems add weight, and there are many who prefer RWD only VS AWD.

Yes, I prefer RWD only in a car. Living in AZ, I don't need AWD. I have a 4WD SUV for when I spend winters in Colorado...if were to relocate full time to someplace w/ more severe winters, then I might want an AWD car, but the 4WD SUV w/ RWD cars approach has worked for me for the last 15 years...

[SAmadei]

AWD adds weight and doesn't necessarily help performance. Jaguars are rear drive, the 7-series was always rear drive only (awd will be offered) Lexus LS460 is rear wheel, Genesis is rear wheel, S-class is has optional awd. Rear wheel will always be the superior drivetrain, that is why the Corvette isn't front wheel or all wheel drive.

Agreed. But the braintrust at GM is likely considering a midengine FWD C7 just to piss us off.

When did GM change their slogan to "Standard of Excellent Spite".

The best part about having a big BOF RWD car is helping tow AWD idiots out of snowbanks.

[regfootball]

Give me some of what you're smoking, reg. For around the same price as the BTS, if it were sold in the States, you could get a CTS, which does have "a little extra leg room" versus the Saaballac Bull$h!. It's actually the reason why they didn't sell this particular Cadillac in America, the price overlap didn't justify its existence.

There's a reason why GME has only sold all of 4 of these in Europe: it's a turd.

considering only a few months ago i could get a 9-3 with stick and a couple options for a hair over 20g, i would buy that. i don't have the extra 10-12k for a CTS, even though obviously it would be a better car. the CTS in real money in real shopping is more spendy than the 9-3. that was where my statement comes from.

[Drew Dowdell]

AWD adds weight and doesn't necessarily help performance. Jaguars are rear drive, the 7-series was always rear drive only (awd will be offered) Lexus LS460 is rear wheel, Genesis is rear wheel, S-class is has optional awd. Rear wheel will always be the superior drivetrain, that is why the Corvette isn't front wheel or all wheel drive.

you forgot to list the RWD A8 that you were telling us about a month ago.....

[regfootball]

DT7 IMO should NOT be FWD or RWD, but only AWD. That is a luxury level a car like that should have. End of story. Hopefully this is all rumor and they are not going to flush the last 3 years of engineering work down the drain do to some Morons Political schedule and personal ambition at the top.

this might be where they go with it.

[regfootball]

AWD adds weight and doesn't necessarily help performance. Jaguars are rear drive, the 7-series was always rear drive only (awd will be offered) Lexus LS460 is rear wheel, Genesis is rear wheel, S-class is has optional awd. Rear wheel will always be the superior drivetrain, that is why the Corvette isn't front wheel or all wheel drive.

AWD is needed to make the car market viable in snowy climes.

[regfootball]

AWD should be an option but has no need to be standard. Most AWD systems add weight, and there are many who prefer RWD only VS AWD.

no point in RWD only if the motor is sitting tranversely which is what EPS is.