Toyota Yaris 1.5

[deftonesfan867]

That can be done to any car. And no those Ring times don't tell me how nice the car is. It just means the car has a good engine, and the suspension has been tuned for a track. I don't know what my GTO gets at the Ring, and don't even care if the Cobalt is faster at the Ring. My GTO is still more fun to drive any day of the week, on the track or off.

The Mini wont set any tracks on fire with it's 160hp, but I'm willing to bet that it is still more fun to drive than a Cobalt. And it doesn't look as cheap, or feel as cheap.

Why are we comparing apples to oranges?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Why are we comparing apples to oranges?

Because they can be bought for close to the same price?

Edited March 5, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[deftonesfan867]

Because they can be bought for close to the same price?

Of course the driving dynamics will be different. FWD vs. RWD and the Mini is shorter in wheelbase vs. the Delta.

Not to mention IRS vs. twisted beam axle.

I will not lie however, I would buy a MINI before a Cobalt.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Of course the driving dynamics will be different. FWD vs. RWD and the Mini is shorter in wheelbase vs. the Delta.

Not to mention IRS vs. twisted beam axle.

I will not lie however, I would buy a MINI before a Cobalt.

They are both FWD. The Mini is one of the only FWD cars I wouldn't mind owning.

[Satty]

Used, I assume.

Leftover '08s

[regfootball]

Brembo brakes and upgraded suspension components.

Guess those Ring times meant nothing, besides the fact that every review has said the car is blast to drive...

basically every review says the cobalt is the best performing and driving small compact. in numbers, or judgments in the press. the only thing it gets knocked for the interior, which by the way, the seats are fine, the shifter is fine. its the dash and plastic. and that's fine, but it again only underscores that its more about people being obsessed with the fashion statement that they drive. Everyone tries to come off as cool and hip and we get that the cobalt is not fashion conscious. at the same time, it is not bad. The cobalt SS is a good looking car. Its not girl cute like the mini is all. or video game / rice cute like the civic, lancer or subaru.

but with the cobalt SS, not only are you getting the best performing small car of any of them, you also are getting probably the best value. 22 and change for a cobalt SS with a sunroof and LSD. Even less if you have a lease return or GM card. More than enough left for a custom stereo or custom leather if you want.

i don't think that the mini at 22k will lap the nurburgring in record times like that although you might get some cute interior upgrades at that price.

i would buy a cobalt before a mini because the mini has no functional aspect to it. can't haul much and certainly its a pain if you have kids. of course, there is about 12 other cars i would buy over the mini in that class for the same reason. and quite honestly, i just simply am sick of the cute and corny look.

Edited March 5, 2009 by regfootball

[Satty]

Fact check: For $22k, no Cobalt is going to lap the Nürburgring, its not sold in Germany.

And with a booster seat, its easy enough to get a kid in back. I could see someone morbidly obese having a problem turning around to buckle the seatbelt, but lets face it, morbidly obese people dont buy small cars.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Satty

[regfootball]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...article_id=7107

road and track, the most credible mag, of course calls cobalt the king of the subcompacts.

The Cobalt SS may be the most underrated car in the world. We're about to set it free of that title.

It's no secret GM engineers spent a lot of time tearing around racetracks in the Cobalt SS, fine-tuning the car's FE5 suspension. They did one heckuva job, as how else can you explain a car with a torsion-beam rear axle handling as well as this one does?

And handle it did — everything we could throw at it, from the racetrack-worthy back roads of California's Central Valley, to a challenging autocross course, to our traditional performance testing. In the last, the Cobalt SS posted test-best numbers in the skidpad and slalom — a superb 0.92g and 70.0 mph, respectively. And it didn't just win, it dominated the others.

But what surprised us even more than the raw data was how composed and quick the Cobalt SS was on back roads. Its slightly heavy steering has near-perfect weighting, and the car goes exactly where you tell it. "I'm impressed!" said Kott. "It's the rental car that went to hot-rod school. It feels light, turns in like crazy, has lots of grip and only moderate body roll." He admitted the Cobalt SS occasionally displayed an "odd, disjointed feel while cornering — probably attributable to the torsion-beam rear axle — but it's sure hard to upset this car."

Another strong point for the Cobalt SS is its 2.0-liter turbocharged and direct-injected 4-cylinder, which makes 260 bhp and 260 lb.-ft. of torque. Not only is this sweet engine virtually lag-free, it's also vice-free, as it's smooth and quiet, and has "right now" power at all times. Torque peaks at just 2000 rpm — yet it makes usable power all the way to its 6300-rpm redline. It's mated to the most precise gearbox of the group, a 5-speed, "marred only by its cheap-feeling plastic knob," said Kott.

[Satty]

They dont have to drive it everyday for a number of years.

[regfootball]

Fact check: For $22k, no Cobalt is going to lap the Nürburgring, its not sold in Germany.

And with a booster seat, its easy enough to get a kid in back. I could see someone morbidly obese having a problem turning around to buckle the seatbelt, but lets face it, morbidly obese people dont buy small cars.

you just don't get that people with kids buy 4 door sedans. man you are a freaking tool. who's foolish enough to pay list.

Conclusion

The Cobalt SS won this test by virtue of being good (more often great) at just about everything. It won three of the seven Performance categories outright, while never finishing worse than second in the rest. In our Subjective section, it won six of the 12 categories, all of them performance-related. The WRX put up a phenomenal fight, and is a class act itself, but it just couldn't overcome the Chevy's performance advantages. Kim summed it up thus: "Dynamically, the Cobalt SS is the best — it completely shocked us."

So for all those who have said, "I'd buy an American car if they made one that could compete with the Europeans and Japanese," Chevy is calling your bluff. Because the Cobalt SS doesn't just compete with the foreign cars, it beats them. It is the hottest-performing sports compact you can buy in the U.S. for under $30,000. That it's also the least expensive in this test is even more reason to rush to your Chevy dealer immediately. Not only will it help stimulate the economy, but every aspect of your enthusiast driving senses as well.

Edited March 5, 2009 by regfootball

[deftonesfan867]

They are both FWD. The Mini is one of the only FWD cars I wouldn't mind owning.

Hmmm, learn something new everyday. A RWD MINI would be better IMO.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Hmmm, learn something new everyday. A RWD MINI would be better IMO.

Yep, but IMO that could be said for any FWD car. Even a Yaris would be better if it was RWD.

[CaddyXLR-V]

and quite honestly, i just simply am sick of the cute and corny look.

And some of us are tired of GM's cheap, and economy look. It's like a Cavalier, or Corolla. The Mini, looks like no other economy car, and is a premium small car, and it shows.

[Satty]

I have a kid, and own a sedan, and didn't pay list on either car. The Cooper is worlds more livable in daily life than a Cobalt. Being 2 feet shorter means its easier to maneuver in traffic and worlds easier to park. And the interior doesn't look like it was separated at birth from the Sterilite tubs my son's toys are in. And the giant sunroof is the next best thing to a convertible on days like today when its 75 and sunny.

[Paolino]

If there is one thing the Germans and Asians haven't yet "Americanized" it's the capabilities of their HVAC systems.....

Need to just quote it because it's SO true.

Anytime I invite a teacher into my car, whether it be dead of winter or late June during final's week, they ALWAYS comment on how hot the heat gets or how icy the a/c is. I still can't believe after 15 years it still gets that cold.

[ocnblu]

This argument is stupid. The Cobalt and the Mini do not compete with each other. The Mini is much more expensive.

[Satty]

This argument is stupid. The Cobalt and the Mini do not compete with each other. The Mini is much more expensive.

From Edmunds:

2009 MINI Cooper MSRP-$18,550--TMV--$18,550

2009 Cobalt LT MSRP-$16,460--TMV--$15,774

2009 MINI Cooper S MSRP-$21,950--TMV--$21,950

2009 Cobalt SS MSRP-$23,425--TMV--$22,464

Those are base prices, so it's not that much more, just for the fun of it, I'll add this.

2008 Saturn Astra XR-MSRP-$18,375--TMV--$18,375

Real purchase prices are the difference, because you might be able to get a few hundred bucks off a MINI, depends on how they're feeling that day. Meanwhile, Chevy and Saturn dealers will practically pay a customer to buy their cars.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Need to just quote it because it's SO true.

Anytime I invite a teacher into my car, whether it be dead of winter or late June during final's week, they ALWAYS comment on how hot the heat gets or how icy the a/c is. I still can't believe after 15 years it still gets that cold.

I've never had a problem with my Passat or 626 getting cold in Arizona's 115 degree summers.

[Paolino]

I've never had a problem with my Passat or 626 getting cold in Arizona's 115 degree summers.

Well one thing I've noticed is that when I am in their cars, the a/c is never nearly as cold as mine. It doesn't have that same "frigid" feeling, even if I turn it down to 60.

[ocnblu]

Poppycock, Satty, when is the last time a stripped Mini has been seen on a lot anywhere? They're all tarted up with those expensive options and packages. Once again, I love the Mini, but comparing a Mini to a Cobalt is pointless, as they are not in the same class. The C30 and GTI are the only cars I'd compare it to, at least here in the US.

[Satty]

When is the last time you saw any MINIs on a lot? They fly off lots, but I digress. You're right, they really dont sompete, the MINI is a premium subcompact, the Cobalt is neither premium (mediocre the right word? probably) nor is it a subcompact. But keep in mind, I'm not the one who brought the Cooper into this conversation.

[CaddyXLR-V]

All this talk about Minis is making me want one.

[ocnblu]

Heh, Tate in Annapolis always has at least 20 on the lot.

[Satty]

StL and KC had extremely limited supplies. When we were looking, OKC had several Coopers with only the premium package, but no complete strippers. Does anyone want a MINI without a sunroof?

[regfootball]

From Edmunds:

2009 MINI Cooper MSRP-$18,550--TMV--$18,550

2009 Cobalt LT MSRP-$16,460--TMV--$15,774

2009 MINI Cooper S MSRP-$21,950--TMV--$21,950

2009 Cobalt SS MSRP-$23,425--TMV--$22,464

Those are base prices, so it's not that much more, just for the fun of it, I'll add this.

2008 Saturn Astra XR-MSRP-$18,375--TMV--$18,375

Real purchase prices are the difference, because you might be able to get a few hundred bucks off a MINI, depends on how they're feeling that day. Meanwhile, Chevy and Saturn dealers will practically pay a customer to buy their cars.

edmunds tmv's are wrong (often are).

min you can get off cobalts right now is about 3k since the rebates out there are about 2500 right now i believe but i will check that. sometimes the ss does not get the reg models rebates but when i last checked it applied to ss also.

and i would be shocked to find any base coopers out there.

edmunds never has the saturn tmvs close to right. regional incentives vary. the astras i look at the other day were both 3500 off sticker which is consistent all around the last few months.

Edited March 6, 2009 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Poppycock, Satty, when is the last time a stripped Mini has been seen on a lot anywhere? They're all tarted up with those expensive options and packages. Once again, I love the Mini, but comparing a Mini to a Cobalt is pointless, as they are not in the same class. The C30 and GTI are the only cars I'd compare it to, at least here in the US.

zactly.

[Satty]

zactly.

YOU are the one who brought the MINI into this thread, and now you're agreeing that it shouldn't be mentioned here? Nice.

[vonVeezelsnider]

As a Cobalt owner I can tell you the Mini and the Cobalt aren't in the same class- that being said the Cobalt is a good honest car.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Isn't the Yaris a subcompact? Why are we even talking about Cobalts?

[Robert Hall]

Isn't the Yaris a subcompact? Why are we even talking about Cobalts?

Yes, the Yaris is in the same class as the Aveo and other cheap sh*tboxes. The Cobalt's competitors from Toyota are the Corolla and tC.

Edited March 6, 2009 by moltar