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Official: Saturn is Dead, Pontiac is a Ghost

Blake Noble

By Blake Noble
in General Motors

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Satty Newbie

Satty

Posted
Posted

Want to know what I always thought was funny? Pontiac used the "Wider is Better" slogan all those years when the comparable Chevrolets were, in fact, wider.

Blake Noble Newbie

Blake Noble

Posted
  • Author
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AND

Get it right people. :P

EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!! EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!

amidoinitright?

SAmadei Newbie

SAmadei

Posted
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Wide Track!

Pontiac_Safari.jpg

Doesn't get much more exciting than this..... landau roof, fender skirts, wire spoked white wall wheels, suspension by Serta.

dcp_0003.jpg

Hitting close to home, there Oldsmoboi.

I have one of each of those... but the Bonne is a '81, not a '78. The Safari has 12 second timeslips and was a great sleeper when I wasn't hauling engines and plywood with it.

The '81 was considerably more exciting during the times when the brakes weren't working.

They all can't be winners.

In all seriousness, you guys are forgetting the 6000 STE, AWD 6000, early '90s Supercharged Bonnevilles and McLaren Grand Prixs. All more exciting than than the comparable crap from the GM divisions.

Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?

A 1982 Skyhawk?!? A 1984 Skylark with premature lockup?

How about Standard of the World

That certainly sums up the Cimarron... or the 8-6-4 and HT-4100 engines. How about those early oil leaking Northstars? Or the expensive but crappy Allante? A friend owned one of each of these disasters, new, and two of the Allante. Never will buy GM again because of it. His subsequent Jaguar was in the shop every other month and that was relatively reliable.

Rag on about Pontiac and their slogan... but that was the limit of excitement in the '80s... where a corporate built smog clogged 185 HP engine was the TOP option! Excitement back then was perception based on stickers and blacked out trim... and it looks to be that what excitement in the next decade is going to be about... a big spoiler on your Prius.

FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
Posted
We could probably start a "Pontiac is EXCITEMENT!!!!!!! thread, but then somone would ruin it by posting a Trans Am, which I would point out is nothing more than a Camaro with a bunch of plastic tacked on, which others would disagree with and it would quit being fun.

Trans Ams had unique powertrains when the brand first started.

(I love coming to a GM board and hanging out with other GM fans :rolleyes:)

Just because you all think you're too good to drive a Pontiac doesn't mean the brand isn't rich in history and appealing to folks that wouldn't be caught dead in a Chevrolet.

SAmadei Newbie

SAmadei

Posted
Posted
Want to know what I always thought was funny? Pontiac used the "Wider is Better" slogan all those years when the comparable Chevrolets were, in fact, wider.

So, a Hummer is wider, too. So is a Mack truck. The slogan is "Wider is Better", not "Wider than everything else". Pontiac wasn't aiming that marketing at Chevy owners, but at narrow import buyers.

Satty Newbie

Satty

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WTF does Ru Paul have to do with the Trans Am

Things change, and things have to be looked at for what they are not what they used to be.

That said, I have no idea if RuPaul ever had it chopped off.

FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

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Posted
u don't listen 2 tewl?

Nope.. In fact I hate them.

Things change, and things have to be looked at for what they are not what they used to be.

But this only applies to american divisions? You're not about to forsake Mini over their (polar opposite of what the brand meant) new clubman and SUV, right?

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

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WTF does Ru Paul have to do with the Trans Am and Who TF is that guy in the cowboy hat?

Looks like the Tool dude--Maynard James Keenan-- who, like me, is from Ohio and lives now in Arizona.

regfootball Community Regular

regfootball

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I just still can't believe Buick is a core brand. Everyone I have talked to about the situation is shocked that Buick is more important than Pontiac. This is also the primary reason GM is not finding it's way to my car shopping list. If GM were to say they were keeping Chevy GMC and Cadillac only, that's one thing. But to see Pontiac reduced to nothing, while Buick gets everything, is another.

yeah i've said this many times......its a total WTF are they thinking? GM instantly loses a buttload of the youth and performance market.

racing buicks? autocrossing?

buicks at the downtown coffee cafe?

GM will be smart to keep pontiac lean but still around when they discover their big eff up and realize they need pontiac to sell to people below 50 anyone who likes things contemporary and not blue hair.

regfootball Community Regular

regfootball

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Why can't Saturn/Saab/Hummer be spun off to one company? You'd have your everyman brand, your luxury brand, and your channel for trucks.

that company that is buying hummer will sell it back to GM when this whole thing clears.

FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

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:mind-blowing:

(Good Christ calm down. It's all in good fun. Take a hit off of the old bong and join in.)

Okay...okay...

Maybe I am being a little touchy.

(As far as Tool goes; that's a deeply entrenched hatred on my part. After having some exposure to that guy pictured, through interviews and the like, I just wanted to hit him with a baseball bat.)

regfootball Community Regular

regfootball

Posted
Posted
EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!

595133638_e4fb1ab883.jpg

:P

FTW! thanks Viper....bringing that pic out of the vaults always makes for the BEST DAY EVER!

but, for all those that scorn the SSE and the bonneville in general, between 89 and whenever, the bonneville was a HUGE seller. SSE sold like mad.

Blake Noble Newbie

Blake Noble

Posted
  • Author
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Okay...okay...

Maybe I am being a little touchy.

(As far as Tool goes; that's a deeply entrenched hatred on my part. After having some exposure to that guy pictured, through interviews and the like, I just wanted to hit him with a baseball bat.)

No worries. :P

And, yes, Maynard James Keenan is an arrogant prick and an opinionated asshole. But I don't listen to Tool for Maynard.

regfootball Community Regular

regfootball

Posted
Posted
I think the current plan just might work. I do have some hope for Pontiac (now that Saturn is toast) getting an Astra along with a fresh G6, a MCE on the Solstice keeping G8 with some updates and Vibe for the model cycle they could stay viable pretty easy. Saturn can be either dropped or taken over by the dealers which ever they want to do, just stop taking GM's money and give it too Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC and Pontiac where it belongs. As for the Vibe and G6 specifically my "small town" GM dealer has three Vibes, 2 G6's and cannot keep the Vibes on the lot and also has been moving lots of G6's with 4 cylinder six speed automatic combo. Sold more G6's in the past year than the new Malibu and nearly as many as they did Impala's.

i will be shocked if Pontiac gets rid of the G6...honestly, it sells, making pontiac 'niche' is short for 'we don't have money to redo the dashbaord or add NVH tuning to the car so we will have to sell it unaltered for awhile and don't expect to sell bunches of them'....but trust me no BPG dealer in its right mind will want to lack the G6 in this segment in a sea showroom of blue hair cars. BPG needs one product to sell that has a chance of selling in volume to youths.

another revelation in my mind which i think is very real. astra will be simultaneously sold in saturn and pontiac showrooms to amortize its intorduction, until saturn is figured out. current G5 cobalt goes away and next astra as a hatch is sold as a pontiac in addition to possibly a small buick version and a very stripped lineup of saturn astras. then if saturn totally dies they still have the pontiac and buick versions of this car selling and making it worth the intro.

I am fuzzy on the Vibe. Logic says pontiac keeps it as long as they can but honestly this NUMMI BS has to leave NOW. Vibe would be better as a saturn. maybe part of saturns redo is pawning NUMMI off on them. Saturn Vibe?

G8 stays. If GM had money they would add AWD to it, and they really should, but they won't.

Solstice needs to stay (i like the sky a tish more). Hey maybe with a dead XLR we'll get a Caddy Kappa.

Satty Newbie

Satty

Posted
Posted
joke

noun, verb, joked, jok⋅ing.

–noun

1. something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.

2. something that is amusing or ridiculous, esp. because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce: Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.

3. a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.

4. something that does not present the expected challenge; something very easy: The test was a joke for the whole class.

5. practical joke.

–verb (used without object)

6. to speak or act in a playful or merry way: He was always joking with us.

7. to say something in fun or teasing rather than in earnest; be facetious: He didn't really mean it, he was only joking.

–verb (used with object)

8. to subject to jokes; make fun of; tease.

9. to obtain by joking: The comedian joked coins from the audience.

Origin:

1660–70; < L jocus jest

Drew Dowdell Grand Master

Drew Dowdell

Posted
Posted
Sorry if I don't want to make light of Pontiac being reduced to nothing. I do own one that I am going to take a hit on the value for.

You probably already took that hit.

I've always had a problem with the "ZOMG! PONTIAC IS A PERFOURMENCE BRAND!!!@!2"

uh.... no....

They're an everyman brand, 1/2 a step up from Chevy and you could buy a couple of them with really big motors that the Chevy's didn't get. With the exception of some varieties of F-body and the Fiero, there was nothing at Pontiac that you couldn't buy at your local Chevy/Olds/Buick dealer with the same or better performance.

FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
Posted
They're an everyman brand, 1/2 a step up from Chevy and you could buy a couple of them with really big motors that the Chevy's didn't get. With the exception of some varieties of F-body and the Fiero, there was nothing at Pontiac that you couldn't buy at your local Chevy/Olds/Buick dealer with the same or better performance.

Hmm.... Same goes for Cadillac as we speak.

(Save for the RWD sedan, which a better platform in a cheaper package can be had at Pontiac)

CaddyXLR-V Newbie

CaddyXLR-V

Posted
Posted
You probably already took that hit.

I've always had a problem with the "ZOMG! PONTIAC IS A PERFOURMENCE BRAND!!!@!2"

uh.... no....

They're an everyman brand, 1/2 a step up from Chevy and you could buy a couple of them with really big motors that the Chevy's didn't get. With the exception of some varieties of F-body and the Fiero, there was nothing at Pontiac that you couldn't buy at your local Chevy/Olds/Buick dealer with the same or better performance.

GTO? G8? Pontiac had so much potential, and I feel it still does. But all that money went to the Saturn money pit, and now it is going to go to Buick. Before then, it went to Olds. Seems like Pontiac is the only one that was never given a fair chance, despite the higher sales than all the other brands.

Drew Dowdell Grand Master

Drew Dowdell

Posted
Posted
Hmm.... Same goes for Cadillac as we speak.

(Save for the RWD sedan, which a better platform in a cheaper package can be had at Pontiac)

You seriously think that Cadillac is only 1/2 a step above Chevy? My point is, Pontiacs, for the most part, are no more special than Chevys.

The G6 is majorly outclassed by the Aura and Malibu. The G5 is the same as a Cobalt and doesn't even come in a GXP version like Chevy's SS version. The Sky has a nicer interior than the Solstice. Torrent was a blatant Chevy badge job. The Vibe is pretty good, but the Astra has a similar package with a nicer interior. Only the G8 has something special going for it..... but you know what? All of that is ok. It's just that Pontiac isn't the performance brand everyone wants it to be.... and it never was.

Every time someone calls Pontiac the "performance brand" the first things that come to mind is that landu roofed, fender skirted, white walled Parisianne or a ribbed for your pleasure Transport or the ghastly looking Aztek or the sound of a Grand Am Quad-4 that hasn't had it's oil changed since the first Clinton inaugural.

Drew Dowdell Grand Master

Drew Dowdell

Posted
Posted
GTO? G8? Pontiac had so much potential, and I feel it still does. But all that money went to the Saturn money pit, and now it is going to go to Buick. Before then, it went to Olds. Seems like Pontiac is the only one that was never given a fair chance, despite the higher sales than all the other brands.

I agree that Pontiac has potential. The G8 and Solstice were a great start to that.

I just disagree "Pontiac means performance" when I know most of the Pontiacs sold in the last 30 years were the one you were objecting to people posting in here.

balthazar

balthazar

Posted
Posted (edited)

>>"They're an everyman brand, 1/2 a step up from Chevy and you could buy a couple of them with really big motors that the Chevy's didn't get. With the exception of some varieties of F-body and the Fiero, there was nothing at Pontiac that you couldn't buy at your local Chevy/Olds/Buick dealer with the same or better performance."<<

This has been true at a certain time (like recent memory fading back into the mists of time), and completely false at another. Since you mentioned 'big motors Chevy didn't get', it sure sounds like you are referring to a time when there was divisional engineering & proprietory engines, which would indicate the latter for the most part. The Beginning of the End for Pontiac was, really, 1979.

Edited by balthazar
gm4life Newbie

gm4life

Posted
Posted

I find it funny people talking down Pontiac, not that they are so exciting but there not as bad you all make them out to be. I find it ironic this is coming from a Prius and Jetta owner as well. At least my cars have the over 4 cylinders.

gm4life Newbie

gm4life

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Posted (edited)

I know but it gets old because we always bag on Pontiac's. So I'll play dirty too...

vw_jetta_01.jpg

Will this wing make my EXCITING 4 cylinder economy car go any faster?

2360_0.jpg

Now this EXCITEMENT with a 2.7L V6!

toyota_prius.jpg

1.5 liter four cylinder engine, and as dull as an egg shell white wall and just about as ugly as the girl no one dated in highschool.

96jetta.jpg

Wow look at this beauty what an EXCITING CAR.

vweurovan500.jpg

And you thought the Aztek was ugly?

300px-92_Grand_Marquis.jpg

RWD and rides like its on air.

1993-97-Geo-Prizm-96125021990505.jpg

I am not a Corolla or a Toyota! I am a GEO! :AH-HA_wink:

Edited by gm4life
gm4life Newbie

gm4life

Posted
Posted (edited)

1746779325_6ea6c7a0e8.jpg

EXCITEMENT...

burnout_3.jpg

EVEN FWD EXCITEMENT...let see your FWD Prius try that? Oh wait it hasn't got enough power... :D:Toyota:

54687865XpwPts_ph.jpg

EXCITEMENT...

silverbird2.jpg

EXCITEMENT...

2834216499_92295023c8.jpg

MORE EXCITEMENT...

hppp_0704_04_zpontiac_pavement_poun.jpg

YET ANOTHER EXCITING PONTIAC...

G8_BurnOut.png

AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY PONTIAC CURRENTLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY EXCITEMENT. TAKE THAT!

Edited by gm4life
Cory Wolfe

Cory Wolfe

Posted
Posted (edited)
I know I am just giving you some &#036;h&#33;, like you gave me. BV your a good guy.

Hah... I would say this is trivial in comparison, but sure, I'll take a compliment when I see one. :P

Edited by blackviper8891
Intrepidation

Intrepidation

Posted
Posted

I'm ashamed of you gm4life...no joke about the 2.7's blowing up? WHERE'S THE EXCITEMENT!??!?!?!?! :P

It's all in good fun..a little laughing never hurt anyone.

Also you forgot the Shadow, and BV's dead Quad 4 Pontiac. :lol:

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