Reuters: GM considering Chapter 11 filing, new company: report

[wildcat]

The deadline is looming to present a plan for viability, and Reuters says GM is considering Chapter 11 to form a new ( ! ) company. To view their story, click here.

[ZL-1]

Let me see if I get it... reorganize the profitable bits under a new Company and sell off or shut down the rest. contracts heavily reworked (at least), with the UAW contract most likely going out the window?

[Oracle of Delphi]

[Oracle of Delphi]

Is that a good , a bad or a :deathwatch: ?

Depends on your point of view ...

[hyperv6]

Chapter 11 should never be the first line of recovery but in light of the present market conditions it is becoming a more clear path.

GM had great issues but now with the economy as it is the whole game is different now. This also may finally not hurt GM inage wise as much since the entire industry is taking dive. It may not be too far out that even some of the imports could be driven to this state next year. Not all are cash rich as Toyota.

If one goes chapter 11 the other 2 of the big three may soon follow not just because they are also hurting but also for the competitive advantage it would put GM in during tough times. Ford is holding on but with the market down there pockets may not hold out for too much longer.

GM would still have to tough it out and work hard to right the ship but with much less burden in times when all are hurting.

Besides in the next couple years many Americans will also be filing bankrupt status. Too many people have too great of credit card debts and if they are laid off it will catch up to them. THis may help GM nit suffer the stigma of bankruptcy as much since some will really know what chapter 11 really means.

I hope the stimulas bill works but from the way I see it being handled I am not holding my breath. Way too much busy work vs creating increases in our industrial base and markets.

Too bad they will not get the credit problems fixed first.

Having cheap affordable cars in the future will be key. If we lose the UAW this may help stablize or lower prices on the cheapest cars. In 2-4 years a Spark may be all some can afford new.

[gmcbob]

It will be interesting to see how the Obama Administration handles this situation with this company. I don't think he wants to alienate all of the blue collar union GM employees who voted for him. But on the flip side, he had soooooooo many people who voted for him that either completely despise GM and the "old school" industrial base that it symbolizes and/or don't give a $h! about the American auto industry, that he doesn't want to piss them off either by giving GM any more dough. What a pickle to be in. Ah, the joys of being a politician. I wouldn't want his job right now, that's for sure.

I really have no definitive gut feeling on this per se - but I wouldn't be surprised if Obama and his Administration tells GM to basically go and f@#k themselves when this is all said and done if GM comes asking for more money. (unless of course GM somehow makes it "worth their while" financially in a very personal kind of way- kind of like how most everything else works in Washington). But I'm under the impression that GM doesn't really have the political and financial clout they had say, 30 or 40 years ago to pull this off with Uncle Sam and keep getting cheap loans.

At the end of the day, you can ultimately thank our lax policies on letting the Japanese and Koreans move in an set up shop here for that. In Washington, money talks and BS walks - the import car companies had the money and political savvy to know how to win this market and ensure that Washington didn't stop it - and now they're laughing all the way to the bank while GM and Chrysler are basically f@#ked.

However, despite our Govt essentially letting Japan Inc. do business here with very little in the way of restrictions, GM still had plenty of opportunities to stomp them into the ground - and they didn't. GM screwed up - and I think despite what them totally collapsing could mean to the already fragile economy, I just don't see Washington coming to their rescue beyond the money they already loaned them. I kind of hope I'm wrong, but Obama may decide to let GM go under. He doesn't want to lose the votes on the coasts - and those are the people that probably really don't favor giving any money to what they consider (wrongly in most cases) an antiquated, out of touch company.

I like Obama (and I'm a tried and true American muscle car loving motor head) - but I'll bet Obama wishes deep inside that this "GM problem" would simply just go away, and I don't know if I'd totally blame him if he did feel that way sort of.

I don't know - maybe they'll give them more money to continue to "restructure" out of CH 11. But when you sit back and not let your passion or love for the automobile and GM's history and the history of the industry cloud your head, you really start to realize just how stupid GM has been over the recent years and wonder if they really deserve to be around anymore. All of us who regularly (and not so regularly) post our thoughts and opinions on this website can go back through the years and instantly come up with dozens of things GM could have and should have done differently to stop Toyota and the rest of the competition from getting so many of their customers. Whether it was failed product, messed up pricing, poor marketing, becoming a truck company, letting Cadillac rot on the vine, I mean, we could come up with so many reasons why GM is where they are that it's actually quite insane they're even still a going concern.

We're all fans I guess - but we must be just a bunch of hopeless romantics at the end of the day. There's good product now, but I'm afraid it really might be a little bit too late.

[cletus8269]

well with the trip that was made to the "money tree" last night i doubt they can make anymore trips. odd that it is supposed to save 3.5 million jobs when a provider of half that many alone could soon join the dodo.

[regfootball]

what is significant.....this could be the iconic poster child for the start of a very different US economic landscape....the $h! that's already happened not discounted, of course.

i wish people got this. no business or industry can afford to have its market go near half in a year's time. the company i used to work for went from a record year in like 06, to way less than half the revenue two years later. what was built over time, is destroyed in a blink of an eye. cars, whatever the industry, our society is not set up to handle this huge a swing.

at this point, regardless of what happens with GM as a company, what you hope for at the very least, is that the brands come out of this with as little long term harm as possible.

Pontiac for example, may be on its death bed, but at least you hope it continues on in some form and gradually comes back to exist.

The last thing we need at this juncture is to open the door for a floodgate of even more cheap asian brands to take advantage of our market.

[saturnd00d]

The only people I truly feel sorry for right now are the blue collar workers who have put in their heart and soul into the job they do on the assembly lines, the design centres, the engineers and anyone else who goes to work to make an honest day's pay.

On the flipside, the people who act as the puppeteers are the ones whom I wish would take the brunt of their bad decision-making. It sickens me that they choose to let history repeat itself year-after-year and expect to let the low-level workers suffer for it.

Karma is a biatch, so they will get theirs in the end I hope.

[biff]

The last thing we need at this juncture is to open the door for a floodgate of even more cheap asian brands to take advantage of our market.

++

I hope we can protect and create solidify the US manufacturing base with this, trim the fat for a better, leaner faster moving corporation.

[mustang84]

These are some depressing times. Every time I see an older GM on the road (especially an Olds), I'm reminded of how far this company has fallen.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

what is significant.....this could be the iconic poster child for the start of a very different US economic landscape....the $h! that's already happened not discounted, of course.

i wish people got this. no business or industry can afford to have its market go near half in a year's time. the company i used to work for went from a record year in like 06, to way less than half the revenue two years later. what was built over time, is destroyed in a blink of an eye. cars, whatever the industry, our society is not set up to handle this huge a swing.

at this point, regardless of what happens with GM as a company, what you hope for at the very least, is that the brands come out of this with as little long term harm as possible.

Pontiac for example, may be on its death bed, but at least you hope it continues on in some form and gradually comes back to exist.

The last thing we need at this juncture is to open the door for a floodgate of even more cheap asian brands to take advantage of our market.

+1

The key now is PROTECTING the potential that the company has. In essence, GM needs to become a lot like the U.S. military. It needs to adjust for demand, but still retain the potential to become a hugley powerful entity if the market or environment calls for that to happen.

I think GM should hold on to the core 5 and either Saturn or Saab.

Hummer and the less lucky Euro brand will just have to die or go elsewhere.

[gm4life]

Chapter 11 would be a great idea, give the goverment less control over GM. We all know the politicans in Washington want us to have Hybrids and such, give me a break. I want a real car with a real motor. The more freedom Gm has from the goverment the more "fun" products will have to drive.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

*IF* GMNA files, they'll keep Chevy, Buick, GMC, Cadillac and MAYBE Pontiac.

It's not hard to figure this out.

Why doesn't GME buy Saturn off of GMNA and sell Opels here through it?

[Lamar]

*IF* GMNA files, they'll keep Chevy, Buick, GMC, Cadillac and MAYBE Pontiac.

It's not hard to figure this out.

Why doesn't GME buy Saturn off of GMNA and sell Opels here through it?

Well, the only current Saturn that's not also an Opel analogue is the OUTLOOK. So given Saturn's recent booming sales (read: the past couple of years), I don't hold out much hope for that.

[ehaase]

I found the following article very insightful - http://www.christonium.com/automotive/ItemID=12347179104179

[Oracle of Delphi]

Why doesn't GME buy Saturn off of GMNA and sell Opels here through it?

Why would GME want it, especially if GM files Chapter 11, and a new company emerges ... GME will be part of any new company that emerges ... but I would prefer a spin off of GME, GMDAT and GM Holden into a new company with GMNA going it's own way ...

Whatever happens, I wonder how any new company will decide on what the bondholders and stockholders will get in said company that is formed, and how will the platforms be divided up, if at all ???

[buyacargetacheck]

My guess: If we see a good asset/bad asset organization appear it'll likely be based on a brutal sorting of what makes money in a 9-10M vehicle market and what doesn't. For instance, if Bowling Green and the Corvette are not money makers don't count on it joining the good asset company. Nothing is sacred.

Count on PIMCO coming out very well no matter what. They're integral to the trading and administration of government debt and TARP.

Why would GME want it, especially if GM files Chapter 11, and a new company emerges ... GME will be part of any new company that emerges ... but I would prefer a spin off of GME, GMDAT and GM Holden into a new company with GMNA going it's own way ...

Whatever happens, I wonder how any new company will decide on what the bondholders and stockholders will get in said company that is formed, and how will the platforms be divided up, if at all ???

[daves87rs]

[haypops]

Whatever happens, I wonder how any new company will decide on what the bondholders and stockholders will get in said company that is formed,

Don't the stockholders get absolutely nothing until all bond holders are paid in full? Since that is unlikely aren't all stockhoders SOL?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why would GME want it, especially if GM files Chapter 11, and a new company emerges ... GME will be part of any new company that emerges ... but I would prefer a spin off of GME, GMDAT and GM Holden into a new company with GMNA going it's own way ...

That's why... I was playing on what you said in the past.

If indeed GME were to become a new company, Saturn's dealer network, extensive knowledge of Opel and appeal to import buyers would be a golden opportunity.

[gm4life]

I do feel GM will file chapter 11 and I think it would work out better for them. I have been saying that since uhhhhh November. GM can keep what they want this way and actually have some more fun cars.

[daves87rs]

I do feel GM will file chapter 11 and I think it would work out better for them. I have been saying that since uhhhhh November. GM can keep what they want this way and actually have some more fun cars.

Or not.

[haypops]

would be a golden opportunity.

I'm afraid there are no golden opportunities anywhere.

[gm4life]

Or not.

Why not? There are enough politics in GM as it as. Why would we want a group of politicans having more control and working on trying to run another company into the ground? Remind me why we need government to "fix it" both democrats and republicans have done such a good job of "fixing" things. Let the market decide all the goverment needs to do is offer tax rebates for people who buy a car from the big three and I would be happy. GM has the tools and the means to make great cars and we are starting to see them, consumers will catch on even if Consumer Reports and the car rags don't. I don't look to government for the solution to GM's problem, if goverment got into bed with GM, they would have another problem.

GM this way can get out from under the Union bailout, because the only reason GM got any money thus far is because of the Union do you think one politican from either party really gives a rats-ass about an American company? Think of it this way, democrats hate GM because they build only big SUV/Truck vehicles and make no appealing small cars. (Sure...) Then republicans hate GM because they have a Union that has been choking them for years. Government "helping GM" won't really help and create more problems and loops to jump through in addition to CAFE and O's new state by state emissions standard. So choke the industry in one hand while giving them money, sounds like a good idea eh?

I am starting to agree more and more with XP and 68 (scary), who the f*ck needs new cars, if all were going to get is boring 4 cylinder hybrid Prius wanta-be vehicles what is the god damn point? Case in point, I hope for a next generation G8 and Camaro, and a more powerful C7 Corvette along with another new CTS STS/DTS but we'd better flog 'em while we got 'em. Even my fleet of semi-boring six cylinder front drivers will be considered to harmful to the damn Al Gore humpers and they can just stick it. The day I can't hear my cars engine turn-over is the day I die.

Yup let Government fix it just like they have with CAFE.

Get out from under the Unions, fire all employees and hire them back no Union, sales will suck for a while (they already do, a golden oppertunity) and then GM's stock value rise and get the cost of producing cars in control. Simple. Well maybe not that simple you get the idea.

Edited February 16, 2009 by gm4life

[Oracle of Delphi]

Let's wait until tomorrow and see what Project Renaissance says, shall we?

[gm4life]

In the mean time I pray they will file for chapter 11 tomorrow, and that will really put GM back on track maybe not tomorrow but in a few years it would be a better option.

[regfootball]

Let's wait until tomorrow and see what Project Renaissance says, shall we?

what a sage you continue to be. they even chose a marketing creation name for it? (project renaissance?)

[evok]

what a sage you continue to be. they even chose a marketing creation name for it? (project renaissance?)

Yes - What a sage! 30 seconds after it is posted on Auto News - I see the Magic 8-Ball's insight.

GM plans 'aggressive steps' to cut costs in Europe

John Revill

Automotive News

February 16, 2009 - 11:56 am ET

...

The statement said GM management had shown main elements of Project Renaissance to selected analysts last week.

...

Edited February 17, 2009 by evok

[daves87rs]

Why not? There are enough politics in GM as it as. Why would we want a group of politicans having more control and working on trying to run another company into the ground? Remind me why we need government to "fix it" both democrats and republicans have done such a good job of "fixing" things. Let the market decide all the goverment needs to do is offer tax rebates for people who buy a car from the big three and I would be happy. GM has the tools and the means to make great cars and we are starting to see them, consumers will catch on even if Consumer Reports and the car rags don't. I don't look to government for the solution to GM's problem, if goverment got into bed with GM, they would have another problem.

GM this way can get out from under the Union bailout, because the only reason GM got any money thus far is because of the Union do you think one politican from either party really gives a rats-ass about an American company? Think of it this way, democrats hate GM because they build only big SUV/Truck vehicles and make no appealing small cars. (Sure...) Then republicans hate GM because they have a Union that has been choking them for years. Government "helping GM" won't really help and create more problems and loops to jump through in addition to CAFE and O's new state by state emissions standard. So choke the industry in one hand while giving them money, sounds like a good idea eh?

I am starting to agree more and more with XP and 68 (scary), who the f*ck needs new cars, if all were going to get is boring 4 cylinder hybrid Prius wanta-be vehicles what is the god damn point? Case in point, I hope for a next generation G8 and Camaro, and a more powerful C7 Corvette along with another new CTS STS/DTS but we'd better flog 'em while we got 'em. Even my fleet of semi-boring six cylinder front drivers will be considered to harmful to the damn Al Gore humpers and they can just stick it. The day I can't hear my cars engine turn-over is the day I die.

Yup let Government fix it just like they have with CAFE.

Get out from under the Unions, fire all employees and hire them back no Union, sales will suck for a while (they already do, a golden oppertunity) and then GM's stock value rise and get the cost of producing cars in control. Simple. Well maybe not that simple you get the idea.

I guess somebody forgot to tell you that these "new cars that everybody plans to build are going to suck. They have to meet new gas milage standards, like it or not.

It just might make the current cars almost "classic" like....

[gm4life]

I guess somebody forgot to tell you that these "new cars that everybody plans to build are going to suck. They have to meet new gas milage standards, like it or not.

It just might make the current cars almost "classic" like....

Point well taken but I have not given up on GM or fun cars, I just am against giving the government more control over them. We all know what the politicans want us to drive. :camarosmile: