CALIFORNIA

[regfootball]

well, it's nice knowin ya.

I guess you know, you should be sent to the scrap heap like General Motors.

[SoCalCTS]

Give us dollar for dollar what we pay in federal taxes and this never would have happened. All the hick redneck states are subsidized with our tax money.

We should get $1.20 in federal spending for the next 8 years to make up for the last 8. Then we'll see who is on the trash heap.

[Robert Hall]

well, it's nice knowin ya.

I guess you know, you should be sent to the scrap heap like General Motors.

And your point? Just tryin' to stir up trouble? A lot of states have budgetary problems right now...

[Nick]

If California was independent from the nation, wouldn't we have the 10th largest economy in the world?

Even in these rough financial times, that's not too shabby.

[SoCalCTS]

I vote we sell them to Saudi Arabia and use the money to pay off the national debt. After all, we have plenty of other states to pick up the slack in regards to the whole "being a state" thing. If one state fails, we should not prop it up, but let the free market take it's course. Ron Paul '08 [/sarcasm]

Must be a Republican. You'd sell your own mother not mention Sell-Out your own country to make a quick buck.

[Robert Hall]

By the way, 43 states are currently facing budget shortfalls:

CNN Article: Recession has 43 states facing budget shortfalls

[Intrepidation]

Well it is that mentality that so many people have towards Detroit, it's just sarcastically (note: [/sarcasm] he used) being applied to the state. Show's how wrong the mentality is.

[SoCalCTS]

Well it is that mentality that so many people have towards Detroit, it's just sarcastically (note: [/sarcasm] he used) being applied to the state. Show's how wrong the mentality is.

What kills me is the way that the southern senators are fighting the bail-out and the buy American provisions. Senator McConnell from KY (aka Nissanland) is against helping the American manufacturers. Funny how Nashville gets their panties in a ruffle over some comments by the Dixie chicks but a southern state elects a senator that is not Pro-American.

Edited February 2, 2009 by SoCalCTS

[Robert Hall]

What kills me is the way that the southern senators are fighting the bail-out and the buy American provisions. Senator McConnell from KY (aka Nissanland) is against helping the American manufacturers. Funny how Nashville gets their panties in a ruffle over some comments by the Dixie chicks but the state elects a senator that is not Pro-American.

Red state scum... they claim to be so patriotic and pro-American but sell out to foreign companies.

[SoCalCTS]

ok so Kentucky is actually Toyota-land...

Its like the whole Airbus/Boeing tanker competition. Republican senators... do what is right for America. Support American industry NOW.

[FAPTurbo]

At first, I figured the state went bankrupt sending social security cheques to that chick with 14 kids.

[trinacriabob]

By the way, 43 states are currently facing budget shortfalls:

Yep, I have seen various exhibits on this topic. Most are running deficits. Of the very populous states, I think Texas was the only one in the black.

Incidentally, on a stand-alone basis, California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Also, 12% of the U.S. population lives in California (37 mill. out of 305 mill.) Now, California has a lot of nice things, but NOT ALL of California is nice. Of that, I can assure you.

[Robert Hall]

Yep, I have seen various exhibits on this topic. Most are running deficits. Of the very populous states, I think Texas was the only one in the black.

Incidentally, on a stand-alone basis, California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Also, 12% of the U.S. population lives in California (37 mill. out of 305 mill.) Now, California has a lot of nice things, but NOT ALL of California is nice. Of that, I can assure you.

Ya, it's probably the most diverse state in the US in many aspects--demographics, topography, climate, geography, etc. At least the parts I've spent time in are all quite different from each other...

[trinacriabob]

Ya, it's probably the most diverse state in the US in many aspects--demographics, topography, climate, geography, etc. At least the parts I've spent time in are all quite different from each other...

That's right, I was too white to be riding on the Red Line (the subway they got AFTER we moved away) near McArthur park and was, in fact, the only Caucasian in my particular rail car. I'm also probably too dark, or at least ethnic, when I'm in Chico CA, which is apparently where all the Maureen McCormicks have migrated.

[longtooth]

Insolvent and perpetually aflame.

A novel combination if ever there was one.

[Drew Dowdell]

Give us dollar for dollar what we pay in federal taxes and this never would have happened. All the hick redneck states are subsidized with our tax money.

We should get $1.20 in federal spending for the next 8 years to make up for the last 8. Then we'll see who is on the trash heap.

Was that tax income based on imaginary income based on imaginary home values and financed through banks using imaginary capital?

[haypops]

Was that tax income based on imaginary income based on imaginary home values and financed through banks using imaginary capital?

The major economic issues affecting the budget include:

2/3 majority needed by legislature to accept yearly budget

proposition 13 which froze real estate values at 1970's rate except when the property is resold.

hangover from the illegal Enron attack on the state budget

A three party system (one democratic party, one normal Republican Party, and one super cheap Republican Party)

[longtooth]

The major economic issues affecting the budget include:

2/3 majority needed by legislature to accept yearly budget

proposition 13 which froze real estate values at 1970's rate except when the property is resold.

hangover from the illegal Enron attack on the state budget

A three party system (one democratic party, one normal Republican Party, and one super cheap Republican Party)

Housing a countless number of crimi-grant border-jumping lawn-care service people, nannies and restaurant workers. Even going so far as to send the offspring of crimigrants to Cal-ee-fornia's schools and stitching them up after the obligatory knife fights and Saturday night brawls in the emergency rooms.

[trinacriabob]

proposition 13 which froze real estate values at 1970's rate except when the property is resold.

Growing up in LA, there's NO WAY that middle class people who bought a modest home in Woodland Hills, El Segundo or South Pasadena in the 60s or 70s could hold onto that home today. That would be tragic. I do think that Prop 13 is indexed with the general cost of living, though, which could be construed as fair.

I don't think it's Prop 13. I think it's the bad spending habits of a bratty teenager that are in evidence - plus spending money on incarceration or social services for those who deliberately underachieve which has no-value-added.

Edited February 3, 2009 by trinacriabob

[capriceman]

quite simple really. f@#k um'

Pay backs a bitch, From the wonderful city of Detroit for what you and your Air board did to us in the 70's till now.

Thats how I really feel.

[SoCalCTS]

quite simple really. f@#k um'

Pay backs a bitch, From the wonderful city of Detroit for what you and your Air board did to us in the 70's till now.

Thats how I really feel.

I got news for you. Being broke in California, is like the best day ever in Detroit. The state could be a trillion dollars in debt and it would never be as bad as living a day in Michigan.

That's how I really feel. Its the defeatist attitude of you people out there that keeps you down.

[loki]

Give us dollar for dollar what we pay in federal taxes and this never would have happened. All the hick redneck states are subsidized with our tax money.

We should get $1.20 in federal spending for the next 8 years to make up for the last 8. Then we'll see who is on the trash heap.

then stop electing liberal senators/ and reps(as a state)....? elect ones that hate big government... that will end subsidies... of all kinds.

[SoCalCTS]

then stop electing liberal senators/ and reps(as a state)....? elect ones that hate big government... that will end subsidies... of all kinds.

Its not the liberals spending all the money. Republicans spend far more and the siphon it off to their home states. Places like Alabama are getting $1.85 back from the feds for every $1 they pay in federal taxes while California gets only 80 cents back from the same dollar. It looks like the south needs to stop electing "spend and spend" Republicans. That 20 cents on the dollar that California lost would have more than covered any budget shortfall that we have.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Here's a thought, how about cutting off social services to illegals and not allowing their children into the school system. Think how much money that would save California.

[Justin Bimmer]

Unfortunately, cutting off social services would realistically only increase the crime rate. With incarceration or deportation being the only options, it would only drain as much if not more money from the budget.

Plus a lot of the "illegals" children are US Citizens because they were born here. When their parents get deported, then they get all kinds of social services because they basically become "orphans" if they already aren't taking those advantages.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Unfortunately, cutting off social services would realistically only increase the crime rate. With incarceration or deportation being the only options, it would only drain as much if not more money from the budget.

Plus a lot of the "illegals" children are US Citizens because they were born here. When their parents get deported, then they get all kinds of social services because they basically become "orphans" if they already aren't taking those advantages.

They need to change the citizenship law to say one parent needs to be a U.S. citizen before their children can be considered a U. S. citizen. You shouldn't be able to swim across a river or climb a fence and drop your baby on American soil and have it be a legal citizen. IMHO.

[Intrepidation]

They need to change the citizenship law to say one parent needs to be a U.S. citizen before their children can be considered a U. S. citizen. You shouldn't be able to swim across a river or climb a fence and drop your baby on American soil and have it be a legal citizen. IMHO.

Agreed...it's a terrible loophole in our system.

[Justin Bimmer]

It is something that needs to be changed, but if it were to be attempted, it would be political death for anybody that did it because there are lots of crazy naturalized immigrants and illegals that would be waving the Mexican flag and rioting if that were to happen.

[Intrepidation]

So bring out the tanks...nothing says "become a US citizen and support America, waving the American flag, or go back to your own $h!ty country" like a barrel aimed at you.

Of course that's probably looks even worse, but one can dream.

On a side note...I hate it when people wave whatever stupid island or country they came from's flag but not the American (next to it or anything). If you love it so much go back to it asshole!

[regfootball]

That was supposed to be sarcastic, hence the [/sarcasm] at the end. One of my favorite cars was built in California, so I can't hate on the place too much.

they actually build any cars (besides the vibe) in california? For all that they consume, you'd think they ought to figure out how to build a few of them there.

same can be said about their electricity, gasoline, water supply.......

[Oracle of Delphi]

So bring out the tanks...nothing says "become a US citizen and support America, waving the American flag, or go back to your own $h!ty country" like a barrel aimed at you.

Of course that's probably looks even worse, but one can dream.

On a side note...I hate it when people wave whatever stupid island or country they came from's flag but not the American (next to it or anything). If you love it so much go back to it asshole!

In the State of Texas where I grew up, you see another flag flying under the Texas State flag a lot, it speaks for itself.

[longtooth]

Then let it be California's problem.

Place a fence around that State to keep them in

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Was that tax income based on imaginary income based on imaginary home values and financed through banks using imaginary capital?

LMFAO!!!

Oh, and I demand that California leaders (and the leaders of the other deficit states) sell their personal jets now and have to beg Congress for money. Then we can tell them that they should look to competitor states such as Texas, Montana & West Virginia as examples of why California (and the other states) suck so bad (and apparently kill babies on the side)

Then maybe we could phase out a state or two since they're all basically the same anyway... Same $h!ty platforms (except, republican and democrat, instead of Zeta and Epsilon) same components (dirt, sand, water and trees) and the same power (failing and outdated legislative units that date back to pre- small block chevy days). Besides, america hasn't really done a good job of marketing South Carolina (Saab) anyway, so it's a "damaged state" and because of that could be irreparably harmed. Maybe we could sell just the name to Italy or something. And, I mean, who buys anything in Florida (Buick) anyway? It's for old people, so we don't need it. Montana (Chevrolet) can count for California (Pontiac), right? So we can just phase out California and all of those people will be perfectly happy and have all their needs met by Montana.

(obviously, all sarcasm based on the Detroit fiasco)

As far as me really commenting on this issue... Well, talking to most californians is about as effective as talking to a wall. They think we should live as they live and they're too blinded by themselves to accept tolerance or diversity. On the other hand, I live in the south and I've seen firsthand the kind of bullsh*t that SoCalCTS comments about. A lot of our "leaders" are crooks.

I think the whole system is f*cked... And I think it has all begun to ferment into one big pile of sh*t. The leadership of this country is a joke (Hopefully Obama can start to change that) The money from this country is worthless. And the people in this country are SO consumed by their own ignorance and agendas that we're doomed to failure indefinitely.

Just my :twocents:

Edited February 3, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[cletus8269]

Besides, america hasn't really done a good job of marketing South Carolina (Saab) anyway, so it's a "damaged state" and because of that could be irreparably harmed. Maybe we could sell just the name to Italy or something.

eh the union wont miss a bunch of troublemakers.... maybe we should try that seceding thing again hehehe

[SoCalCTS]

they actually build any cars (besides the vibe) in california? For all that they consume, you'd think they ought to figure out how to build a few of them there.

same can be said about their electricity, gasoline, water supply.......

California ranks 4th in the nation in Automobile related jobs. Thats 61,674 auto jobs. That includes parts, design, and the 7,430 tht assemble cars here. Only Michigan, Ohio and Indiana rank ahead of us.

We have 15.6% of the nations crude oil supply. How many of your states have oil reserves? We have the third largest oil refining capacity. Only Texas and Alaska beat us. Our refineries our the cleanest and most sophisticated in the nation.

California leads the Nation in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, fuel wood, landfill gas, and solar power. California is also a leading generator of hydroelectric power.

[regfootball]

yeah, but the water......

[trinacriabob]

yeah, but the water......

Four desalination plants have been on the drawing boards for years. Some people don't want them built because they fear it will encourage even more population growth.

[The O.C.]

At first, I figured the state went bankrupt sending social security cheques to that chick with 14 kids.

I think you mean welfare checks......

[pow]

Well, talking to most californians is about as effective as talking to a wall. They think we should live as they live and they're too blinded by themselves to accept tolerance or diversity.

That's 100% BS, perpetuated maybe by media stereotypes but certainly not reality. To describe 38 million people in just a few broad brush strokes is ridiculous.

[SoCalCTS]

yeah, but the water......

The southern part of the state is in a desert. If we were next to a great lake there wouldn't be a problem.

There's whole parts of this country that are in droughts and they get 6 or 7 times as much rain in a year as Southern California does! I can't recall anyone ever running out of water out here. Our water infrastructure is solid and desalination is coming online soon.

[loki]

Its not the liberals spending all the money. Republicans spend far more and the siphon it off to their home states. Places like Alabama are getting $1.85 back from the feds for every $1 they pay in federal taxes while California gets only 80 cents back from the same dollar. It looks like the south needs to stop electing "spend and spend" Republicans. That 20 cents on the dollar that California lost would have more than covered any budget shortfall that we have.

i said liberal, not democrats... there can be a difference.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That's 100% BS, perpetuated maybe by media stereotypes but certainly not reality. To describe 38 million people in just a few broad brush strokes is ridiculous.

I agree.. But there has been a fair share of trash talking about my region of the country in this thread and I even went one better and found 'common ground' (I usually don't play that nice)

Besides, you know what they say about stereotypes... *shrugs*

[SoCalCTS]

i said liberal, not democrats... there can be a difference.

Most liberals that I know are into conservation, recycling, preventing disease by eating right and exercising, don't smoke, car pooling, volunteering, etc.

Conspicuous spending is not quality I would ever associate with a liberal.

Spending is what the wealthy do. The real people ruining this country are the upper classes with their conspicuous consumption and desire to make a buck at any cost. They just happen to be conservative types from my experience.

[Intrepidation]

We have a political section now. That's where politics belong. No where else.

[Drew Dowdell]

What Dodgefan means to say is; There is a Politics section coming soon as part of a broader board wide announcement. More details will follow.

[trinacriabob]

The southern part of the state is in a desert. If we were next to a great lake there wouldn't be a problem.

There's whole parts of this country that are in droughts and they get 6 or 7 times as much rain in a year as Southern California does! I can't recall anyone ever running out of water out here. Our water infrastructure is solid and desalination is coming online soon.

Family friends who lived in Rancho Mirage and Palm Springs said the enormous inland Coachella Valley (desert) essentially sits on top of a big aquifer. Never checked out any geo maps, but I've heard this other times.

[loki]

Most liberals that I know are into conservation, recycling, preventing disease by eating right and exercising, don't smoke, car pooling, volunteering, etc.

Conspicuous spending is not quality I would ever associate with a liberal.

Spending is what the wealthy do. The real people ruining this country are the upper classes with their conspicuous consumption and desire to make a buck at any cost. They just happen to be conservative types from my experience.

I mean liberals as in people that do that or not, but tell others they have to do that.

cause what you described,"most liberals you know", sounds pretty conservative to me.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

California is an entirely messed up state. This year they have INCREASED their spending despite an expected falloff in tax revenue. As a result of the gridlock in the California legislature (due to poor districting the democrat/republican lines run extremely deeply), Not that it would normally matter, but budgets have to be determined by like 67% vote.

As a result, the governator is now furloughing state workers... which will only server to worsen the economy rather than trimming ineffective or non-vital government programs... it is equivalent to, i believe, a 6% pay cut. Never mind the fact that it took a California Judge to rule that the CONTRACT between the state workers union could be breached in order to do this.

California has amongst the highest tax rates in the Union as it is (it is not the highest however, i do believe some of the states back east are higher).

It also irks many of California's conservative in-land cities (and i mean conservative in the classical sense of the word) that they have to pay all these taxes to subsidize LA and the Bay Area, and in the end they get almost nothing in return for their taxes... except pollution from the San Francisco area and Sacramento. Oh and paying for those LA types to actually have water and electricity (There is really no reason the city exists, they have poor natural resources around the area without the California Canal system).

Yep, California should have addressed its debt problem long ago by reducing spending until levels were manageable, however gridlock for the past umpteen years have prevented any such thing... California Republicans, believe it or not, are actually quite conservative and they are steadfast to oppose any raise in taxes which keeps this state in an eternal state of debt, and of course state democrats are not willing to kill any programs, but only add new ones... making the situation worse and worse. Basically California is your classic example of 1) how single party rule (i don't care if its republican or democrat) is bad over VERY long periods of time. 2) How constant partisanship can lead to worsening problems. and 3) What other states should not aspire to.

Not all Californians are so critical of the "hick" states since there are large swaths of California itself who they also refer to as "hicks"... Even from some of the larger inland cities... hell in certain parts of the state there are basically just as many trucks as there are cars.

Now the Federal government is going to be taking YOUR tax dollars to bail out an inept state that couldn't balance its own books. If California represents the future of this nation, i will be quite sad.

And just for the hell of it, SoCalCTS... you do realize that Democrats are far more likely in ANY income range to have more debts and have a higher % of their wages go to home mortgage payments than Republicans of the SAME income range right? I associate a lot of conspicuous spending with liberals, not conservatives who, on average, tend to be a bit more... well... conservative with their income. Not to mention that Republicans tend to volunteer more often, as well as contribute more money to charities than Democrats to (i have no idea if this is related to conservatives vs liberals, all i know is the #s off of a... pew poll i believe it was... research into this topic).

Actually let me rephrase that... ECONOMICALLY CONSERVATIVE types, tend to be better with their money... and there are a lot of people who consider themselves to be "liberal" or "moderate" socially who are still economically conservative (a socially liberal, economically conservative type is known as a Libertarian)... and economic conservatism is really what is important to spur investment by the private sector (and thus create jobs).

Edited February 5, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Justin Bimmer]

FRESNO, CA population about 500,000 (6th largest city in CA) = "hick" area where there are MORE trucks than cars. Very pro Chevrolet and GMC too. Very conservative also.

Most Democrats here are "blue dog" style.

[gm4life]

Cali in the LA and San Fran areas is full of flakes. In the smaller more rural areas people Generally have more common sense and are more like the "rest" of America. A few big fooled hearted cities ruin the state. Sad. Great place to visit never want to live there. Thanks for the info on the "blue dogs" and the great American cars they drive, it comes as no suprise, because all we hear about is LA and SF and all the progressive save the trees $h! from them.

Edited February 5, 2009 by gm4life