Next-gen Buick small sedan could be built by Opel

[Robert Hall]

Don't forget the Buick President or the Buick Congressman. You know with the loan and all ... :AH-HA_wink:

And Buick Governor. In CalIfornIa, it could be the Buick Governator..

[wildcat]

Ensure?

AARP?

Wilford Brimley?

Wait, we're not re-naming the Lucerne?

Why... every time? Don't you want C&G to be taken seriously?

Ooooh...I got a good one, for the older Buick demographic---Buick Viagra.

Don't get me started that NBC censors the vegetable commercial but has older men with the words "Viva Viagra" being sung.

I do appreciate those who gave positive, constructive input.

The whole time we've been having this conversation, my nose has been running like the Mississippi River after a logjam breaks. I've been home, sick, away from work for 4-1/2 days.

Thank you again to those who made an effort.

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick Grande Vitesse - means "High speed"

Buick Recherche' - means "excessively refined"

Buick Redivivus - mean "To be brought back to life ; Reborn" - second pronunciation

Edit: more

I really like this one:

Buick Revanche - "to reclaim lost status"

[Drew Dowdell]

My BF Albert suggests Buick Orion

[wildcat]

oldsmoboi: Thanks to you and Albert. If Buick again makes a "Riviera," is one French-sounding name enough? Particularly for a brand of car that was traditionally thought of as American? Or doesn't that matter?

[Drew Dowdell]

oldsmoboi: Thank you for some fresh names.

Does a "Raven" come in colors other than black?

Sure, the Cobalt comes in colors other than blue.

[Drew Dowdell]

oldsmoboi: Thanks to you and Albert. If Buick again makes a "Riviera," is one French-sounding name enough? Particularly for a brand of car that was traditionally thought of as American? Or doesn't that matter?

Think of it another way. Americans have long felt that all things French are more refined, luxurious, and "special".

Furthermore, I really feel that the names in a brand should reflect a theme in some way. Some sort of connection. All french names would work like that.

I once had suggested that Saturn, in a nod to the brand name and to the hope that they would go all hybrid, go with

Ion, Proton, Electron, Neutron, Compound (good for SUV),

[SAmadei]

Will you guys come back to the present? Buick Apollo... what a piece of crap.

Yeah, all the awesomeness of the Chevy Nova, but saddled with a Boat-anchor Buick 350.

Of course, I wouldn't mind one, as I have a Buick 455 in the garage for it.

BTW, I'm serious about the awesomeness of the Nova... it was a versatile platform available with great engines and styling.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, all the awesomeness of the Chevy Nova, but saddled with a Boat-anchor Buick 350.

Of course, I wouldn't mind one, as I have a Buick 455 in the garage for it.

BTW, I'm serious about the awesomeness of the Nova... it was a versatile platform available with great engines and styling.

There is a really clean late '70s Skylark coupe around here that I see occasionally... within a few blocks of me, there is this car, 2 Novas, 2 Venturas (1 4dr, 1 2dr)....all in really decent shape for 30+ yr old cars.

[wildcat]

I think I could see Buick using the name "Gran Sport," as long as they didn't EVER shorten it to GS (as in Lexus IS, ES, GS, BS), even if Buick was using that nomenclature before Lexus. Or maybe instead of calling the Opel Insignia the "Regal" in NA, either say Buick Gran Sport or -- hey why not -- Buick "Insignia"? If it's a much more taut suspension, tighter handling, more responsive than other recent Buicks.... is that what people who think that way like? Maybe it's the right car for the Gran Sport name? Not "GNX," we're not returning to the "hi-po" days of the '70s.

Maybe for a convertible, simply "Buick Roadster" (a slight homage to Roadmaster in name, rather than type of vehicle or weight) if it's got any kind of performance edge.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Oracle of Delphi]

Build it in C eh N eh D eh, and call it a Buick Québécois ...

[cire]

Though I think he was specifically referring to Alpha, PCS said elsewhere in this forum that GM's intentions are to (if I may paraphrase) make Chevy "nice," Buick "better," and Cadillac, the "best." A reasonable plan. You're right, FUTURE OF GM, as long as GM makes it clear what the differences are and why Buick is better and why Cadillac is best.

Me, personally, I've always said that I prefer something nicer than Chevy (no wonder I like Buicks) AND that I AM willing to pay for it. Thank you, GM, for planning a smaller Buick. I'd suggest that they don't call it a Buick "Astra," since Astra is now tainted by its failure as a Saturn. Nor do I think Buick has to revive the name "Skylark" (certainly not "Skyhawk," yecch); pick something fresh, Mr. Marketer.

I really don't see anything wrong with reviving the "Skylark" name. It still sounds classy and upscale. If GM properly executes the product then I think they could transform the public's perception of the name, just like Chevy did with the "Malibu" name when the 2008 model appeared. In fact, Buick has a goldmine of past model names (as does Pontiac) that could be relevant if applied to well executed, modern products: "Invicta", "LeSabre", "Electra", "Rendezvous", "Riviera", and "Regal". I even think "Apollo" could be used if Buick were to apply it to the next gen Opel Corsa subcompact (although I still think that it and the next gen Astra 3-door/5-door should be assigned to Pontiac) or even an E-flex/Voltec product (although "Electra" could also be used for the E-flex/Voltec product); I seriously doubt that the general public will remember the brief run of the 70's version. The "Centieme" name (a Buick Concept crossover that previewed some styling cues used on the Enclave; the name is derivative of "centime", the French word for "100") could be used on some sort of people mover product (a rebadged/facelifted Antara or next gen Meriva or Zafira) or a E-flex/Voltec product in the future.

Here are some suggestions for a new model name for a compact Buick sedan, however:

* "Vivace": means "lively" in Italian. This name would give the car some exotic, international appeal.

* "Reverie": means "daydream". Since a daydream is a "visionary fantasy... of pleasant thoughts, hopes, or ambitions"*, it would be perfect for a new compact Buick sedan.

* "Calibra": As someone mentioned earlier, this is a past Opel model name that would almost be perfect for a compact Buick sedan (although it was attached to a coupe when it was used for Opel), if no one confuses it with the Dodge "Caliber".

* "Mantra": "A sound, syllable, word, or group of words that are considered capable of creating transformation"* (a process that Buick is hopefully going through right now).

The possibilities (much like Buick's potential) are endless.

* Source: Wikipedia.

Edited January 30, 2009 by cire

[cire]

I think I could see Buick using the name "Gran Sport," as long as they didn't EVER shorten it to GS (as in Lexus IS, ES, GS, BS), even if Buick was using that nomenclature before Lexus. Or maybe instead of calling the Opel Insignia the "Regal" in NA, either say Buick Gran Sport or -- hey why not -- Buick "Insignia"? If it's a much more taut suspension, tighter handling, more responsive than other recent Buicks.... is that what people who think that way like? Maybe it's the right car for the Gran Sport name? Not "GNX," we're not returning to the "hi-po" days of the '70s.

Maybe for a convertible, simply "Buick Roadster" (a slight homage to Roadmaster in name, rather than type of vehicle or weight) if it's got any kind of performance edge.

As much respect and admiration that I have for past Buick model names, I do have to agree that the "Insignia" name would be quite appropriate for Buick's North American version of the Opel Insignia (although I do think applying the "Regal" name to this car is appropriate also).

There are some Buick names and monikers that sound terribly inappropriate (for Buick) or dated (for the present and future) and shouldn't be revived: "Roadmaster", "Special", "Gran Sport", "Wildcat", and "Super". I know these names are revered among Buick's enthusiasts (and I do appreciate that they are), but they just seem to be out of step with the times (and Buick's future positioning and image) to me. I also like "Park Avenue", but to me this name suggests a big land barge limo; something I think Buick is trying to distance itself from. "Centurion" sounds powerful and agressive, but I see it being applied to either a pure sports car or a large SUV (2 products that I don't think will ever be included in Buick's future product portfolio). "Somerset" sounded intriguing until I viewed the history of the name and the car that used this name; we can definitely scratch it off the list. I also liked the "Velite" name that was applied to the recent concept convertible until I looked up the name; it is associated with poor, lightly armed soldiers in the Roman military (not exactly something that exudes the prestige that Buick is aiming for). I'm sort of torn about the "Century" name; I'm not sure if it can be transformed as easily as some of the other past model names (it is also attached to a Toyota product in some markets). "Terraza" and "Rainier" are both recent model names that are probably best left in Buick history also (although I have suggested that they be used on future people mover products for the brand in some of my recent posts; maybe fresh names would be more appropriate than resurrecting either one of these names).

I also think that "Lucerne" and "LaCrosse" should be dropped when the current models' life cycles are over. To me, neither of these names properly convey what Buick should be and represent a low period in the brand's history (pleasant, but hopelessly outdated and uncompetitive premium products). The upcoming LWB Eps II LaCrosse needs to receive a new name in North America (one that can be applied to both the U.S. and Canadian versions of the car) that would signal the renaissance of the brand and the flagship positioning of the vehicle.

[SAmadei]

There is a really clean late '70s Skylark coupe around here that I see occasionally... within a few blocks of me, there is this car, 2 Novas, 2 Venturas (1 4dr, 1 2dr)....all in really decent shape for 30+ yr old cars.

Making me jealous... ;-)

Those fourth gen X-bodies really survived a long time, even here in Jersey. A friend of mine plowed one into a telephone pole... and even though the fender was trashed and the control arms severely bent... he drove it home without a problem.

For those who have never seen an Apollo...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-N...A1%7C240%3A1318

Even has the Buick 350... note the front mounted distributer. Shame about the cheap hood scoop... but it looks like the hard-to-find Apollo parts are all intact... not a bad restoration candidate.

I find it funny that this 1973 "compact" at 200 inches would slot right between the "Midsize" LaCrosse and "Full Size" Lucerne.

My last off-topic post in this thread... promise.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So if Buick is getting a Delta II based vehicle, does Buick still need an Alpha-based vehicle?

My guess is no...

Not to mention, since Cadillac was (supposedly, according to sources here) so pissed off about Pontiac supposedly treading into it's turf, isn't Cadillac going to feel the same way about Buick?

Especially if it shares the same basic platform?

My opinion is that Buick does NOT need Alpha (here in the states) Buick is going after Lexus and Acura, not BMW. Furthermore, if GM thinks for a minute that this TRANSITION of Buick is going to be easy and only going to take a year or two, they're as ignorant as always.

You cannot completely change the identification of a 100 year old division and expect success overnight. Oldsmobile proved that, Cadillac is proving it. And Saturn (a relatively youthful brand in comparison) is proving it also.

I say; give Buick the TT AWD Epsilons and give Alpha to Pontiac. (where it belongs anyway)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

How many outside of C&G and boards like it would even know there was once a Buick called Apollo?

I'm not against Skylark.

The WHOLE population, once the media starts their tirade.

[smk4565]

I think they should call it the Buick LaSalle Concours de Elegancia. And add a "Brougham" to that name for the sedans with those canvas/vinyl roof things.

[Northstar]

Ideally, a model to compete with the 3-series in size and price. Buick isn't overtly sporty, more the comfort side of entry-lux, like Lincoln and lower-end Lexus.

If Buick does bring back the Riviera name, it better be a 2dr...a 4dr Riviera would just be so wrong.

Remember PCS' "nice," "nicer, "nicest" explanation. Cadillac is no-holds-barred, world-class with striking, edgy design.

Buick is upscale from Chevrolet, very nice, premium, not shouting to the world "look at me" but not boring either, more graceful, refined.

I guess I just feel if the Buick isn't supposed to be that sporty and just a very nice car I don't see why Buick needs 2 cars that are (potentially) so close in size.

I mean, the Delta II compact obviously isn't going to be that sporty, so it seems like that would be the whole purpose of the Alpha, but if the Alpha isn't that sporty either, it seems like you're going to have two cars competing for basically the same market.

If Buick is getting the Regal from China, a Delta II, and an Alpha model, in addition to the LaCrosse, it will have 4 models in the same space Chevy has 2, unless Chevy gets an Alpha sedan and not just the Camaro. Just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Plus, you already have the Cadillac model. If the Buick model is going to be less sporty than the Cadillac, how much sportier is it going to be than the Delta II model? We've already seen with the Cobalt SS that Delta can be made into quite a corner-carving platform.

[smk4565]

Buick doesn't need the Alpha platform, the Alpha Cadillac is going to have to handle like a Corvette to rival the next generation 3-series that will hit the market before Alpha does.

Delta II Buick should be like the Jetta in size and equipment and price, but not as firm of a ride.

Regal is a true midsize, make it nicer than a Malibu, competes with top end Camry, Passat. It won't have that many direct competitors because the TSX is smaller, Avalon is bigger, but that is a good thing I think.

LaCrosse is their full size and 3 cars is all they need.

[wildcat]

I guess I just feel if the Buick isn't supposed to be that sporty and just a very nice car I don't see why Buick needs 2 cars that are (potentially) so close in size.

Size isn't the key factor here. It's the type or feel of the car. I'm just guessing but the Delta II, I imagine a FWD sedan, basically will hold the role of a small Buick. Whereas the Alpha, a RWD coupe and/or convertible, is the variation Buick needs (so they're not all 4-door sedans) and the appropriate platform for a new Riviera. Delta wouldn't be.

[wildcat]

Buick doesn't need the Alpha platform

I don't think Buick and Cadillac buyers are the same; each subset is looking for something slightly different. Very nice, refined, yes, but different in execution.

[smk4565]

I don't think Buick and Cadillac buyers are the same; each subset is looking for something slightly different. Very nice, refined, yes, but different in execution.

Buick owners don't want something that handles like a Vette or M3, otherwise they wouldn't have bought a Buick. If Alpha can't surpass the current M3's handling and performance abilities, there is no point in even making the platform.

[wildcat]

As a present and future Buick owner, I can say that I appreciate as nice a car as Buick can be. If the way I drive doesn't push the car to the limits, so be it. If it's got reserve power or handling or whatever, so be it. That's not a bad thing.

Besides, if GM does it right Cadillac should be so obviously better than anything else, there should be no question about a Buick vs. Cadillac Alpha. Two different beasts.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[bring_BUICK_back]

I am sick and tired of the nay sayers out there who think that Buick doesn't deserve to survive or should only have 3-4 models. Buick has the highest guality rating out there over Caddy or Chevy. Buick deserves to have a fuller model range they should have a lineup that consists of a Skylark, Regal, Park Avenue, Riviera, Vellite, Enclave, GNX, Sport Wagon, Reatta, Grand National

And so what if platforms are shared with the other divisions. Or have performance models. It's time that you all stop being short sighted. Each divison should be treated equally. GM has had their heads up there ass for years. Chevy and Caddy should not be the primary. GM is Buick, Caddy, Chevy, GMC and Pontiac. My first car out of high school was a Skyhawk. My dad bought a new Buick every year from the 50's till the 90's

BUICK WELL WORTH SAVING.

[Oracle of Delphi]

There are 1.33 billion reasons Buick should survive.

[smk4565]

There are 1.33 billion reasons Buick should survive.

Buick sales were down in Asia by 15.8% in 2008, they are losing traction there almost as fast as they are in North America. Although what is really sad is Cadillac sold 187,000 units worldwide in 2008, when Audi, BMW and Mercedes sold 1 million. Cadillac needs help fast before they become the next Saab.

[ocnblu]

It's official: I shall christen her "Buick Somerset".

[wildcat]

And the opposing team takes to the field in the "Name the New Buick" Superbowl

I'll have to make a blanket statement then (this is painting with a broad brush, which I don't normally like to do). With but a couple of exceptions, if it's a new car, then it needs a new name and image. Buick tried the "Buick Somerset" already and it's over and done with. I'm not going to spend $40-50K for a Buick Somerset; I could pick one of those up on Craigslist for $500 (or is it $50 LOL) or whatever. I want a 2012, modern, premium, class-leading, aspirational, curvy sweepspear NEW Buick

Oscorna

Oshawa

Obama

Oh Calcutta

whateveh!

P.S., AFTER I SAW PC-S' UNIBROW (YET) AGAIN... Call it the Buick "Uni," only pronounced "ooo-knee"! If it's a small, fresh Buick, I'd rather have "Uni" than Somerset!

Edited January 31, 2009 by wildcat

[ocnblu]

[wildcat]

I know, ocnblu, not so hot. (Did I mention that I've been ill all week LOL)

But, come to think of it, the all-new Buick Uno ("oo-know")... the one Buick you've been waiting for!

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Return of the Skyhawk!

YESS!!!!!! I always liked the 1982-89 rendition, but why I've wanted this for so long is because I think this is a market with potential-I mean Volkswagen Jetta, Acura TSX, and Volvo S40/V50 are in it-probably good for at least 45,000 total sales a unit, if not 100,000 or so in a healthy market give or take? If possible, 4-door notchback sedan, 5-door station wagon, and 2-door notchback coupe body styles....maybe the 3-door hatchback coupe/5-door hatchback sedans in case Saturn does go under....Sweepspear side coves and 3 portholes a side would be nice too....

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Buick sales were down in Asia by 15.8% in 2008, they are losing traction there almost as fast as they are in North America. Although what is really sad is Cadillac sold 187,000 units worldwide in 2008, when Audi, BMW and Mercedes sold 1 million. Cadillac needs help fast before they become the next Saab.

If Cadillac were a 'run of the mill' brand in it's home market (Like mercedes and BMW are in theirs) then that comparison might be valid.

As for Buick and Alpha... It'll be just like GM always has been.

1) They'll have two competing models at the same division (We've seen this for almost 10 years now at Chevrolet with both the Malibu and Impala)

2) Because the car will be something completely different at a division that can't sell that "different" and GM will fail to adequately support it in marketing, the car will be cancelled after one generation. WITNESS: Impala SS, Oldsmobile, Saturn, Cadillac XLR, etc.

Same $h!.... Different day.

Edited February 1, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM