Next-gen Buick small sedan could be built by Opel

[wildcat]

It's mostly speculation, but the Buick Delta II might be built by Opel in Germany and it might visually be influenced by the Riviera Concept. To read the story from Motor Authority, click here.

Reuters also mentions this here.

Edited January 28, 2009 by wildcat

[ZL-1]

My own speculation/conjecture/interrogation: the Astra sedan badged as a Buick, with the hatches disappearing from the US market?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Could be? Surely you jest ...

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Does this mean no Alpha for Buick?

Last I heard Alpha and Delta II are roughly the same size.

This could be successful as long as it isn't close to the Cruze in content, styling or features.

[BigPontiac]

Return of the Skyhawk!

[buyacargetacheck]

Hmmmmm. Let's see. Build a small car in Europe, price it high because of the Euro-$ exchange, slap a bunch of $$$ on the hood because it's not what Americans want. Lose money.

Haven't we seen this movie before??? Maybe it's just a headfake to appease Opel's union bec of the loss of Saab production in Russelsheim? GM can't be that dumb can they?

[daves87rs]

Return of the Skyhawk!

[ocnblu]

Well I hope if it does appear it is not built in Germany. Buick can have the sedan, and Pontiac should get the 3 and 5 door hatches.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well I hope if it does appear it is not built in Germany. Buick can have the sedan, and Pontiac should get the 3 and 5 door hatches.

Nah ...

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Nah ...

Why not?

Seriously... None of this "GME hates Pontiac" stuff. We does it NOT make logical sense to share products with Pontiac?

[Robert Hall]

Why not?

Seriously... None of this "GME hates Pontiac" stuff. We does it NOT make logical sense to share products with Pontiac?

Because they want Pontiac to die.

[Intrepidation]

Because they want Pontiac to die.

Well look at how Saturn's sales have been doing. Based on that, the based way to kill Pontiac is to give them Opels.

[MyerShift]

Well look at how Saturn's sales have been doing. Based on that, the based way to kill Pontiac is to give them Opels.

And what a shame since GM's best front wheel drive cars are Opels.

[ZL-1]

Does this mean no Alpha for Buick?

Last I heard Alpha and Delta II are roughly the same size.

This could be successful as long as it isn't close to the Cruze in content, styling or features.

An Alpha Buick can be positioned differently, for example as a 21st Century Riviera. Done right, with very careful positioning and pricing, it might work profit-wise.

[wildcat]

Isn't Alpha delayed due to a lack of money? Anyway, when and if it comes, Alpha will be RWD. A Delta II Buick is FWD, right?

P.S. EDIT: See gminsidenews's homepage story, "Buick, Opel Get Chummy: Both brands may share a few models in the future...including Astra."

Edited January 29, 2009 by wildcat

[smk4565]

Isn't Alpha delayed due to a lack of money? Anyway, when and if it comes, Alpha will be RWD. A Delta II Buick is FWD, right?

P.S. EDIT: See gminsidenews's homepage story, "Buick, Opel Get Chummy: Both brands may share a few models in the future...including Astra."

Alpha was delayed until around 2014, I don't think Cadillac will survive that long without it, but oh well. I've always thought Buick should get smaller cars, I'd hope for upscale version of the Cruze, rather than another Astra import. Importing Opels and Holdens is not working, they don't fit the American market, and we often get them after they were on sale over seas for a couple years and are a little dated by the time they get here. We don't need to keep reliving the Catera, GTO, G8, Astra mistakes.

[Robert Hall]

Alpha was delayed until around 2014, I don't think Cadillac will survive that long without it, but oh well. I've always thought Buick should get smaller cars, I'd hope for upscale version of the Cruze, rather than another Astra import. Importing Opels and Holdens is not working, they don't fit the American market, and we often get them after they were on sale over seas for a couple years and are a little dated by the time they get here. We don't need to keep reliving the Catera, GTO, G8, Astra mistakes.

The Cruze is a Daewoo design, isn't it? Like the Aveo..not sure if that's any better for the American market.

[Drew Dowdell]

Cruze is Delta II, just like the next gen Astra, 9-3, and apparently this Buick

[wildcat]

This could be successful as long as it isn't close to the Cruze in content, styling or features.

Though I think he was specifically referring to Alpha, PCS said elsewhere in this forum that GM's intentions are to (if I may paraphrase) make Chevy "nice," Buick "better," and Cadillac, the "best." A reasonable plan. You're right, FUTURE OF GM, as long as GM makes it clear what the differences are and why Buick is better and why Cadillac is best.

Me, personally, I've always said that I prefer something nicer than Chevy (no wonder I like Buicks) AND that I AM willing to pay for it. Thank you, GM, for planning a smaller Buick. I'd suggest that they don't call it a Buick "Astra," since Astra is now tainted by its failure as a Saturn. Nor do I think Buick has to revive the name "Skylark" (certainly not "Skyhawk," yecch); pick something fresh, Mr. Marketer.

[Robert Hall]

Century could be a good name for the small Buick. I could see a 3 sedan lineup for Buick in the future--- Delta II Century, Epsilon II Regal (Insignia based), Epsilon II LaCrosse.

[wildcat]

I think using the name "Century" would be a big mistake. The most recent Century was a plain-jane, old fuddy-duddy-car, and Buick needs to make a clear and demonstrative break from it.

If GM is going to use a name from Buick's past, they must be VERY selective. "Invicta," for example, would work on the proper model, because of several reasons: 1) it was last used more than 50 years ago and for such a brief time, so there basically is no one who would say, "Invicta? My grandparents had one of those." (Whereas with a Century, they could.) Also, using "Invicta" would be like GM throwing a bone to Buick loyalists such as myself. Though admittedly few would recognize the name, it would mean something to me. For others, it would have no connotation, so no problem. Which brings me to the last test: what definition(s) does the name have now? "Invicta" means invincible, powerful, a proper message for aspirational Buicks. (Again, to some people, they bring up Century = "the banker's hot rod," which doesn't resonate at all in 2009).

As much as I LOVE a name such as "Wildcat," it probably isn't right for a contemporary Buick. Perhaps one way to test a name is to say "Lexus Wildcat," no that doesn't sound right. "Lexus Century," absolutely not. "Lexus Special," no, not special at all. I personally don't even like the use of "Super" (super-duper). I'm not saying Lexus is any litmus test for Buick names, but if that's the target, that kind of buyer, what is selling, what is the market.

Remember, PCS said we have to forget our old, preconceived notions of Buick. Buick is going after people who want something a little nicer, have the money to pay for it, yet don't want a Cadillac.

"Electra," OK I could see GM choosing it, tongue-in-cheek almost, for a "Buick Volt," especially if they continue to use electrical terms on all the variations ("Ampere," whatever).

"Riviera" I feel is a classic, untarnished name that still sounds good.

But there would be arguably few others that you could pull from Buick's past without resurrecting the very image you supposedly are trying to get away from.

Still, had it been me, I think I would have suggested "Roadmaster" for what became "Enclave." "Roadmaster" is a powerful name, in control of the road.

The name "Enclave" is ok, and most people agree, it's the vehicle that most counts.

I might have used "LaCrosse" for a crossover, if it didn't have the slang reference we all know. ("LaCrosse" did have a nice, almost subtle way of a variation on "LeSabre." French le, la; sabre, cross, sword.)

"Rendezvous" was ok ("where luxury and utility meet," I would have promoted), but it's too closely related to the Pontiac Aztek to use again now. (Let it go, Buickman!)

Buick "Insignia"? (Better than just "Signia," the Buick concept that was sort of a ragtag Frankenstein's monster design if you ask me.)

I think the ship has sailed for Buick to use "Regal"; that, to me, is a 1980s Buick. I want a 2009 or beyond model.

Buick "Agila"? Sure! It's fresh, something new! )I guess that's what Bob lutz tried to do with "Lucerne," and his Swiss watch references, but it failed.)

Why can't, in this era of instant and easy e-mail and texting, can't GM ask present 30 to 55-year old Buick owners for suggestions, as a starting point if nothing else. (Yes, I'd make the age cut LOL) I think any of us would be happy to try to help to the best of our ability in any way we could.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[ocnblu]

Buick Centurion?

[wildcat]

ocnblu, I'm a stubborn son-of-a-gun. I'd vote "no" on "Centurion," probably because if someone says Buick "Centurion" to me, my mind can instantly picture, say, a '73 convertible. "Centurion" would have been ok for a concept (a concept, only) right at the year 2000, but that's it. [ Groucho Marx's voice ] "Opinionated, aren't I?" [ trademark Groucho eyebrow arch ]

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick Apollo?

If the make a small coupe version, the obvious choice is Reatta

[BigPontiac]

Flash back to 1978 and just reuse the same name: The Buick Opel.

And for the record, my dad's '85 Skyhawk was a FAR better car than his '80 Skylark or his '78 Opel. The day the '76 Plymouth Volare coupe with a the 318/4 speed was traded for the beige Opel was a sad day in my childhood

[wildcat]

Buick Apollo?

If the make a small coupe version, the obvious choice is Reatta

Will you guys come back to the present? Buick Apollo... what a piece of crap.

Doesn't "Reatta" mean "the rope"? I would pass on that, too; for whatever reason(s), it was not successful.

You guys are smart! What are some un-unused names that you'd suggest?

[Northstar]

So if Buick is getting a Delta II based vehicle, does Buick still need an Alpha-based vehicle?

[wildcat]

Aboslutely, it's going after a different buyer. The Delta II is a FWD, entry-level Buick. The Alpha, hopefully, will be the Riviera, an upscale sign of RWD (or AWD?) personal luxury.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Northstar]

Aboslutely, it's going after a different buyer. The Delta II is a FWD, entry-level Buick. The Alpha, hopefully, will be the Riviera, an upscale sign of RWD (or AWD?) personal luxury.

Then what is the point of the Cadillac Alpha?

[Drew Dowdell]

Will you guys come back to the present? Buick Apollo... what a piece of crap.

Doesn't "Reatta" mean "the rope"? I would pass on that, too; for whatever reason(s), it was not successful.

You guys are smart! What are some un-unused names that you'd suggest?

How many outside of C&G and boards like it would even know there was once a Buick called Apollo?

I'm not against Skylark.

[Robert Hall]

Then what is the point of the Cadillac Alpha?

Ideally, a model to compete with the 3-series in size and price. Buick isn't overtly sporty, more the comfort side of entry-lux, like Lincoln and lower-end Lexus.

If Buick does bring back the Riviera name, it better be a 2dr...a 4dr Riviera would just be so wrong.

Edited January 30, 2009 by moltar

[wildcat]

Then what is the point of the Cadillac Alpha?

Remember PCS' "nice," "nicer, "nicest" explanation. Cadillac is no-holds-barred, world-class with striking, edgy design.

Buick is upscale from Chevrolet, very nice, premium, not shouting to the world "look at me" but not boring either, more graceful, refined.

How many outside of C&G and boards like it would even know there was once a Buick called Apollo?

I'm not against Skylark.

But for the auto writers who might do some homework, that's all GM would need for them to drag up the Buick Apollo of the '70s.

I think GM basically has to make a break from the past unless there's a really good reason and I see none with "Skylark," though it's the title of a nice song with lyrics by Johnny Mercer.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Robert Hall]

Remember PCS' "nice," "nicer, "nicest" explanation. Cadillac is no-holds-barred, world-class with striking, edgy design.

Buick is upscale from Chevrolet, very nice, premium, not shouting to the world "look at me" but not boring either, more graceful, refined.

But for the auto writers who might do some homework, that's all GM would need for them to drag up the Buick Apollo of the '70s.

I think GM basically has to make a break from the past unless there's a really good reason and I see none with "Skylark," though it's the title of a nice song with lyrics by Johnny Mercer.

Yeah, wasn't the last Skylark an N car, replaced by the underAchieva? A long time ago, it was a midsize, replaced by the Century in '73. Then a Nova clone. Then an X car..then an N car...

[wildcat]

I'll agree with moltar, the Riviera needs to be a 2-dr or a convert. It sounds like Buick will have plenty of future sedans (don't go overboard, GM!).

oldsmoboi and northstar: I'm not judgemental at all, so don't misunderstand me. But both of you strike me a being "with it," up-to-date. You don't strike me as old-fashioned. Why in the world are you reaching back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s? If I want a Buick Apollo, I should drive to the local junkyard, 'cause that may be where they are. If I want a Buick "Agila" or "Vaio" or whatever (I don't know, I admit), I'll head to the local Buick dealer.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick Rival

Buick Raven

[wildcat]

oldsmoboi: Thank you for some fresh names.

Does a "Raven" come in colors other than black?

I'd hate to give an auto writer the chance to make some wisecrack about Buick's rivals beat the "Rival."

[Drew Dowdell]

I'll agree with moltar, the Riviera needs to be a 2-dr or a convert. It sounds like Buick will have plenty of future sedans (don't go overboard, GM!).

oldsmoboi and northstar: I'm not judgemental at all, so don't misunderstand me. But both of you strike me a being "with it," up-to-date. You don't strike me as old-fashioned. Why in the world are you reaching back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s? If I want a Buick Apollo, I should drive to the local junkyard, 'cause that may be where they are. If I want a Buick "Agila" or "Vaio" or whatever (I don't know, I admit), I'll head to the local Buick dealer.

Agila? What's that?

Vaio? Sony will have a problem with that one.

I just like Apollo because it sounds strong. No one outside of us will remember it. It's a real name.

[wildcat]

Agila? What's that?

Vaio? Sony will have a problem with that one.

I just like Apollo because it sounds strong. No one outside of us will remember it. It's a real name.

"Agila" is some model of Opel. It sounds fresh.

"Vaio," I have no idea what it means; of course, I know it's Sony's name. But I just meant something new like those, rather than "Apollo," "Century," "Skylark," down memory lane....

No, please, Oldsmoboi, I associate you with a Cadillac CTS, not a Buick Apollo.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Robert Hall]

LaCrosse. Lucerne. LaDeDa.

How about 'Laguna'? Chevy hasn't used it 30+ years. Or Lacuna... something in New Mexico, IIRC. Lucene would have been good, but too close to Lucerne. Or how about Buick Strasse, the 'street'...plays up the Opel connection.

For something futuramic sounding, I'd go out on a limb with something very bold, like Buick Zytor, or Buick Zygon. Haven't had any names beginning with 'Zy' that I can think of.

[wildcat]

moltar: I appreciate the fresh suggestions, but the former makes me think of Zytec (or some robotic transformer) and the latter Saigon.

AFTERTHOUGHTs: bUICK "zYLETRA," bUICK "cALIBRA" AFTER AN ACTUAL oPEL

Edited January 30, 2009 by wildcat

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick Zenith, Zeal, Zealot

[Robert Hall]

moltar: I appreciate the fresh suggestions, but the former makes me think of Zytec (or some robotic transformer) and the latter Saigon.

Yeah, I'm trying to think outside the box for something international and futuristic.

Diplomat might be a good name if Dodge hadn't used it on such boring cars...it would fit with Accord...diplomacy, statesmanship, etc...

Another name that's kind of out there that I like, that connotes quiet luxury is 'Serenity'. Not as comatose sounding as 'Placid'.

Edited January 30, 2009 by moltar

[Satty]

Ensure?

AARP?

Wilford Brimley?

Wait, we're not re-naming the Lucerne?

[wildcat]

Diplomat might be a good name if Dodge hadn't used it

Another name that's kind of out there that I like, that connotes quiet luxury is 'Serenity'. Not as comatose sounding as 'Placid'.

pLEASE, NO "dIPLOMAT," "kAPITAN," "gENERAL," OR ANY MILITARISTIC NAMES.

aND fRANK cOSTANZA [ "sEINFELD" REFERENCE ] CAN YELL "sERENITY NOW!" ON THE tv COMMERCIALS

[Oracle of Delphi]

"Agila" is some model of Opel. It sounds fresh.

"Vaio," I have no idea what it means; of course, I know it's Sony's name. But I just meant something new like those, rather than "Apollo," "Century," "Skylark," down memory lane....

No, please, Oldsmoboi, I associate you with a Cadillac CTS, not a Buick Apollo.

This is the new Agila ...

[Drew Dowdell]

No, please, Oldsmoboi, I associate you with a Cadillac CTS, not a Buick Apollo.

As much as I liked my CTS, I thought the name was stupid. I hate the alpha numerics..

It's just gotta be a real word, no matter the language.

[Robert Hall]

This is the new Agila ...

Hmm..that little turd might make a good small Chevy, below the Aveo. Or a Saturn.

[Robert Hall]

Ensure?

AARP?

Wilford Brimley?

Wait, we're not re-naming the Lucerne?

Ooooh...I got a good one, for the older Buick demographic---Buick Viagra.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah, I'm trying to think outside the box for something international and futuristic.

Diplomat might be a good name if Dodge hadn't used it on such boring cars...it would fit with Accord...diplomacy, statesmanship, etc...

Another name that's kind of out there that I like, that connotes quiet luxury is 'Serenity'. Not as comatose sounding as 'Placid'.

Didn't China get a Buick Statesman?

Cancel the GMC and you could have Buick Statesman, Envoy, Attache', Ambassador,

[Oracle of Delphi]

Don't forget the Buick President or the Buick Congressman. You know with the loan and all ... :AH-HA_wink: