If I were to build a Computer

[Justin Bimmer]

I am always contemplating building a machine that will be good for games but I have no idea where to buy stuff or even how to do it. Anybody have any advice for a novice on how do build a bad ass computer? :sign0200:

[Intrepidation]

Buy the stuff at newegg. You can build a excellent gaming computer for $800 including OS. You can go even further than that though. The sky is the limit as they say.

To build one, you need teh following:

ATX Computer Case

CPU of your choice (AMD or Intel)

Motherboard that fits the CPU. There are mobos for Intel and AMD in separate categories. Make sure you have the right socket to match teh CPU you want.

Power Supply (600W and up for gaming)

Hard Drive

RAM

Video Card

CD/DVD drive

OS

[Lamar]

Newegg, huh...

I need to replace my PC and wanted to find a site other than TigerDirect. Must remember that.

[Justin Bimmer]

I think I'm going to wait till the new windows becomes standard. I am running an NVIDIA 8600 in my laptop right now and have pretty much always been an NVIDIA guy but are they the best GPU company still?

Also what is the advantage of certain types of towers?

[Intrepidation]

ATX is just a standard type of tower designed for what most components will fit to. Choosing a tower usually boils down to just preference of design (and quality). I like to go on the larger side so there's plenty of room.

I still prefer nVIDIA, they still seem, last I check, to hold the edge for performance.

[PurdueGuy]

+1 for newegg. Very good prices, variety, and it's easy to get something replaced if you have an issue. Was building a new computer for my dad this december, and the mobo ended up having a problem. The replacement was approved instantly, no waiting to see if someone believed me or not. I've rarely had to get something replaced, but the two or thee times (across five or six computer builds) I have, it wasn't a problem (though it is frustrating to wait on shipping, but they are very quick to ship).

[FAPTurbo]

Selecting a case can a pain in the ass, because if you go too cheap, you compromise on a lot, but if you spend like, over $200 for a case, then you're complete dorkstick. Some 'full tower' cases can end up being really huge too, but that's because graphics cards these days are the size of my friggin Dreamcast.

However, before you can even consider asking for help on building a computer, you must know the ways of the l_337n3$$. This is crucial if you go to a computer forum to ask for questions on your possible build, and beware of fanboys.

[capriceman]

Im at work so i will post more on this later.

but yeah GPU are big my 8800 ultra is 11 1/2 long

also the Green camp released the GTX 295 that beats the red camps 4870 x2 for a mere 500 but rumor has it all of the top cards are going to drop in price as much as 100 once all the older 65nm cards like the 260 and 280 are depleted. but this fall is the release of DX 11? supposedly so that means newer better stuff. but as a warning you can sped 4k on a kick ass system now and in 3 months from now it will cost about 1100 to build it. it will always be out of date. however a loop hole in my warranty through microcenter might mean an i7 for me by next week... im excited. www.microcenter.com beats newegg in CPU prices almost always and sometime by alot they might even have a store nearby normally good sales people. but the guys in white are commission guys in blue are hourly.

[Intrepidation]

Selecting a case can a pain in the ass, because if you go too cheap, you compromise on a lot, but if you spend like, over $200 for a case, then you're complete dorkstick. Some 'full tower' cases can end up being really huge too, but that's because graphics cards these days are the size of my friggin Dreamcast.

However, before you can even consider asking for help on building a computer, you must know the ways of the l_337n3$$. This is crucial if you go to a computer forum to ask for questions on your possible build, and beware of fanboys.

Also a budget would be helpful too.

[Intrepidation]

Im at work so i will post more on this later.

but yeah GPU are big my 8800 ultra is 11 1/2 long

also the Green camp released the GTX 295 that beats the red camps 4870 x2 for a mere 500 but rumor has it all of the top cards are going to drop in price as much as 100 once all the older 65nm cards like the 260 and 280 are depleted. but this fall is the release of DX 11? supposedly so that means newer better stuff. but as a warning you can sped 4k on a kick ass system now and in 3 months from now it will cost about 1100 to build it. it will always be out of date. however a loop hole in my warranty through microcenter might mean an i7 for me by next week... im excited. www.microcenter.com beats newegg in CPU prices almost always and sometime by alot they might even have a store nearby normally good sales people. but the guys in white are commission guys in blue are hourly.

Yeah, your computer is pretty much outdated the moment you buy it. It's a vicous cycle. However the more you spend and the beter the parts, the longer it stays near the top. Also you can be stregic about what you buy, so it can be easy to upgrade later.

Some other things to consider. I'm an AMD person, and for Dual Core I would go AMD. However if you go Quad Core I would go with Intel, because last I checked their current lineup of quads were better than AMD's, but even more important is that Intel Quad Core CPUs seem to have better motherboard support. AMD's seem mixed. This could have changed since the last time I went "window" shopping though.

[daves87rs]

I want to build my next desktop, but mine will be more on a "budget"

It should play most games (only the wife is a computer gamer), be fast, and be able to multitask pretty well....

[Justin Bimmer]

Right now, my laptop that I am using has a 5750 intel 2.0 ghz with 4 gigs of ram and a Nvidia 8600GS GPU with 512mb of gpu memory with 64 bit vista.

I am looking to build something better than this obviously. At least a quad core and the GPU needs to have at least 512 mb of gpu memory.

[Intrepidation]

I want to build my next desktop, but mine will be more on a "budget"

It should play most games (only the wife is a computer gamer), be fast, and be able to multitask pretty well....

Right now, my laptop that I am using has a 5750 intel 2.0 ghz with 4 gigs of ram and a Nvidia 8600GS GPU with 512mb of gpu memory with 64 bit vista.

I am looking to build something better than this obviously. At least a quad core and the GPU needs to have at least 512 mb of gpu memory.

Budgets?

[Justin Bimmer]

I think $800 like you stated earlier is a good starting point. I would also need to purchase a new monitor to go with the new computer.

[Intrepidation]

I think $800 like you stated earlier is a good starting point. I would also need to purchase a new monitor to go with the new computer.

As long as $800 doesn't include the monitor. Also you may spend more than that for Quad Core. The $800 rig I built was an AMD Dual Core. I'll looka round and get back to you.

[FAPTurbo]

If you play around on newegg, or tigerdirect, always be sure to check out their 'combo deals' where they often pair up a Motherboard and a CPU because there can be some susbstantial savings.

[loki]

I think I'm going to wait till the new windows becomes standard.

..this will mean AM3 from AMD will be quite availible...i7 may have a mainstream replacement for Core 2's..

Both these will be good, supposedly AM3 will overclock the new phenom II's even better and beable to use ddr2 or 3, the intels will only use ddr3 but prolly accept faster ram sticks, towards 2ghz...compared to maybe 1.6 for amd...?

Graphics should be moving to DX11, and be moved to 40 nm by ...Q3 at latest, maybe?

I like newegg...they do Msrp on the newest stuff typically... usually a good deal, but might not be the best, but nice for one stop shopping stuff....

[FAPTurbo]

I poked around because I'm also looking at a budget build, and came up with this for under 800 bucks.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500

Motherboard: MSI P45 Platinum

RAM: Corsair Dominator 4GB (2x2GB)

Power Supply: Corsair 750 Watt

Graphics Card: ATI Radeon 4850 (Sapphire Dual Slot)

Case: Raidmax

As for a hard drive, that depends on your storage needs, in terms of music, pron, games, etcetera. A 7200RPM from a brand like Western Digital or Seagate will be sufficient, and you can find good deals.

I'd roll with dual core because those extra cores aren't often utilized effectively by most programs today. Plus, when it comes to gaming, a faster-clocked CPU, and a powerful graphics card are what you need. By the time multiple cores are worth it, you'll need a new computer anyway.

The motherboard has also gotten rave reviews, and it'll let you Crossfire ATI cards if you wish. Two 4850's running in CF will let you up the ante, and get good framerates in resolutions at 1920x1200, which is a pretty big montor. It'll let you use an Nvidia card too, but only one.

The power supply is also a great, reliable performer, which is a big deal today, and it'll let you have some future expansion. Also, the case is a good one; I own it, and it's great to work with, although the lighting can be a little 'ricey' but at this price, you're crazy to go with something else.

If you aim to overclock now or in the future, the CPU, the Motherboard, and the RAM will let you go nuts; with a decent third party fan, you should be able to easily get that E8500 runnning at 4GHz.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Captainbooyah

[loki]

AM3 boards/chips should be out this month.... RV740 - the next midrange ATI based on 40nm should be out in march.... promising near 4830 output (good for 16x10 res's), but prolly won't need a big power supply...?

you ever state what kinda budget/ performance you have/want?

[Justin Bimmer]

Thanks,

This is all very interesting stuff! I enjoy reading about it.

[Satty]

The answer to your computing woes

[G. David Felt]

The answer to your computing woes

I totally agree with Satty,

Buy a DELL. I am a hard core gamer and a software developer. I used to build my own systems, but now you can get fast quality systems cheap from the big boys. I just got an email from DELL, $399 for a Dual Core desktop with 256mb vid card, 250GB HD, 3GB Ram and a 19" Flat Panel Monitor. that is really hard to beat.

Check out their refurb systems also as at www.dell.com/outlet

Most people do not realize even miss shipped new hardware cannot be resold as new but has to be sold as refurb and as such I have dual 24" Flatpanels that each one cost me $250 dollars. So you could pay over 600 for one new one or as I did 500 for 2 with full warrenty. Awesome way to shop is at the outlet.

Enjoy.

[Z-06]

Check out their refurb systems also as at www.dell.com/outlet

Enjoy.

GMTA (Great Minds Think Alike)

That is a gold mine. I get all my Dells from there.

People do not realize that these precious things come with 3 year warranty at a price of almost 60% compared to the regular system. Who cares if the system has dings or scratches so as long it works fine and Dell service takes care of hardware malfunction.

[FAPTurbo]

The problem with Dell is that when it comes to gaming, they can be a bitch. In quite a few cases, their hardware is proprietary, so you often have to get new shiznit through them.

Building a PC means you're not limited by any of their, or any other brand's upgrades, or components. Plus, the gaming oriented systems on their overstock can still be built for cheaper.

Oh, and Dell blows and is for t3h n00bz0rs tbh.

[G. David Felt]

The problem with Dell is that when it comes to gaming, they can be a bitch. In quite a few cases, their hardware is proprietary, so you often have to get new shiznit through them.

Building a PC means you're not limited by any of their, or any other brand's upgrades, or components. Plus, the gaming oriented systems on their overstock can still be built for cheaper.

Oh, and Dell blows and is for t3h n00bz0rs tbh.

I think you need to review dells again.

My system I got is a dual quad core with Nvidia Video card and Soundblaster 7.1 audio card on top of my Blue Ray / DVD burner so I am able to burn all 3 formats.

Yes if all you ever buy is a entry level, everything is built on the motherboard, you have limited upgrades unless you buy the full size case where you end up with 4 PCIx and 3 PCIe x8 slots and a nice PCIe x16 Video card slot and then you have full ability to upgrade and make changes over time. Best part is DELL gives you full control in the BIOS to disable the onboard components.

DELL unlike Gateway which I highly recommend people stay away from due to their grey market components use industry standard everything in their desktops and laptops.

You have choice of ATI or Nvidia video cards. standard speed or high speed SATA drives, unless you want to go server class and move into 15K Speed SCSI or Fiber drives.

Since I run a 15,000 square foot R&D test lab, I end up buying HP, IBM, DELL, Hitachi, NEC and a few others monthly to test and I have found DELL to be the easist from a server, desktop or laptop standpoint to use and support. On top of that even my basic low profile Dell desktop I use in the lap can play just fine all of my first person interaction shooter games. No problem kicking ass and taking souls from DOOM to Half Life and the rest of the crazy fun worlds we can play.

It is always a personal choice, but if you do your research, you will find that DELL is one of the best sources and especially the outlet store can give you values that cannot be beat by NewEgg or Tiger.

Good Luck.

:smilies-38096:

[G. David Felt]

Just some examples of awesome deals that would be more than enough for 98% of all gamers and normal computer users:

View Details

F5A30HZF Select

$519.00 Inspiron 518 Intel Core 2 Duo - 2660 Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 640 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 4000GB Ram DVD/RW 56 MiniTower

View Details

EP37FGTF Select

$319.00 Inspiron 518 Intel Pentium Dual Core - 2500 Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 320 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 2000GB Ram DVD/RW Desktop

Here are a couple of their XPS Gaming sytems. These are optimized for those who want speed and quick reaction for game playing online.

View Details

ZR7G44TE Select

$1,409.00 XPS 630 Black Intel Core 2 Duo - 3000 Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 2000GB ram DVD/RW 768MB Nvidia GeForce 8800 Ultra 56 Desktop

View Details

FXE13GZZ Select

$1,279.00 XPS 630 Black Intel Core 2 Duo - 3160 Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate 500 GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 4000GB ram DVD/RW;CD/RW DVD Combo 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX;AGEIA PhysX Physics Accelerator Desktop

Here is the normal but very nice looking XPS 420 that has an awesome case. You can still play all games and do anything else you want.

View Details

F5BXDR2Z Select

$709.00 XPS 420 Intel Core 2 Quad-Core - 2400 Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 750 GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM) 4000GB ram DVD/RW 256MB ATI Radeon HD 3450 supporting HDMI MiniTower

View Details

DDBM3PTZ Select

$989.00 XPS 420 Intel Core 2 Quad - 2330 Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM);500 GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 2nd Drive 6000GB ram DVD/RW 256MB ATI Radeon HD 3650 1505 Wireless Card MiniTower

Here is a listing of flat Panel monitors:

Dell Refurbished SE178WFP 17-inch Widescreen Arctic Silver Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # PK256) 72 $109.00

Dell Refurbished SE198WFP 19-inch Widescreen Silver Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # GM778) 77 $129.00

Dell Refurbished E207WFP 20-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # TW956) 74 $149.00

Dell Refurbished UltraSharp 1908WFP 19-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # G435H) 79 $149.00

Dell Refurbished SP2009W 20-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Webcam Product Details

(Part # R297D) 80 $179.00

Dell Refurbished S2209W 22-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # N764H) 77 $179.00

Dell Refurbished UltraSharp 2009W 20-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part #) 79 $179.00

Dell Refurbished UltraSharp 2208WFP 22-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # H069H) 29 $199.00

Dell Refurbished SP2208WFP 22-inch Widescreen Silver Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Webcam Product Details

(Part # RR268) 77 $229.00

Dell Refurbished S2409W 24-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor Product Details

(Part # Y183D) 44 $259.00

I think I have proven my point, you can get some great deals by looking at the Refurbish outlet store and you still have full warranty and ability to upgrade as you wish over the oncoming years.

Edited February 5, 2009 by dfelt

[Z-06]

I will add one more thing. If you want customization of Bios and ablility to overclock, then the Dell XPS systems let you do that too.

I think warranty brings outlet components more value than anything else, especially for people who do not want the hassle of finding what is wrong then contacting Newegg or the product manufacturer and then waiting for the good part to be shipped and then putting it back in the system.

Most of the time if the Dell technicians detect hardware problem they do not even care of fixing it, replacement part comes in 48 business hours through a certified Dell technician who puts it in for you at no additional cost.

[daves87rs]

So why is there something wrong with Gateway?

I'm running an Gatway (gaming) system right now, and a plain ol' entry level Gateway labtop )for school),

And had NO problems with them so far.

My old emachines though, was a piece of work.

My old Dell was just fine, and have no problem getting another one....

I'm curious about the outlet now...I shouldn't have seen that.....

Edited February 5, 2009 by daves87rs

[Intrepidation]

The answer to your computing woes

I hate Dells with an undying passion. The desktops are worthless piles of $h! made with cheap components, they're poorly programed, have lots of issues, and their tech support blows huge chunks of ass.

I cannot stress this enough: the laptops may be ok (I don't hear too many complaints about them) but the desktops are rubbish.

[Intrepidation]

Oh about the Quad Core post. Quad Core is awesome for 3D applications. It makes a huge difference, since 3D programs rely more on CPU computing and mathematics than the video card.

However, for gaming, you'd be better off saving the money on a Quad, going with a Dual, and spending that money on a more powerful video card.

[Intrepidation]

As far as monitors go...why buy used?

Acer X193Wb Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 2000:1 ACM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16824009151

I bought one of these for Jessica for Xmas...excellent picture quality, nicely built, control placement is where it should be (not on teh side like mine), and no stuck or dead pixels. WIll by another at some point for dual screen.

[PurdueGuy]

Just a note: IMO, it's not worth it to be on the cutting edge of processors unless you intend to stay on the cutting edge of games. If you get a processor that came out 6mo-1yr ago, you can get it for WAY less money, and for anything but the latest & greatest games, it will be far more than adequate. My philosophy is to spend less on each build, and rebuild more often.

Dells are ok, and you can come out cheaper if you're starting from scratch, but if you already own the OS, then it's generally cheaper to build your own. You also have more freedom, and you know what you have and can fix it more easily. Plus, you don't get suckered with Vista. (Ok, I have Vista on my laptop, and it's ok, but it's really no better than XP, just more "pretty", and it uses a lot of system resources to be "pretty".)

[siegen]

I wrote a beginner's PC building guide a while back. It doesn't cover the latest things such as i7, but is applicable to the matter at hand IMHO.

PC Building Guide

Part of the reason for building a computer and not buying a Dell, perhaps even the number one reason, is the fun and enjoyment one gets from building the PC. Other good reasons include knowing exactly what's in your PC, possibly saving money, and tailoring it exactly to your needs and desires.

[Intrepidation]

Part of the reason for building a computer and not buying a Dell, perhaps even the number one reason, is the fun and enjoyment one gets from building the PC. Other good reasons include knowing exactly what's in your PC, possibly saving money, and tailoring it exactly to your needs and desires.

[Justin Bimmer]

I wrote a beginner's PC building guide a while back. It doesn't cover the latest things such as i7, but is applicable to the matter at hand IMHO.

PC Building Guide

Part of the reason for building a computer and not buying a Dell, perhaps even the number one reason, is the fun and enjoyment one gets from building the PC. Other good reasons include knowing exactly what's in your PC, possibly saving money, and tailoring it exactly to your needs and desires.

This would be the main reason why I would do it. For fun and also the ability to upgrade what I want when I want.

[FAPTurbo]

I wrote a beginner's PC building guide a while back. It doesn't cover the latest things such as i7, but is applicable to the matter at hand IMHO.

PC Building Guide

That's incredibly well done! The cable routing bit is cool too, because when I did my first build, I just crammed all my shiznit into the box, and never got around to tidying it up.

[toyoguy]

I will add one more thing. If you want customization of Bios and ablility to overclock, then the Dell XPS systems let you do that too.

I own the XPS 720 and no you can't overclock using the Bios. I can overclock the processor only because I have a extreme edition CPU, otherwise no overclock. But maybe the new system is different. I also got an excellent price since I used dell's outlet, otherwise I'd have gone with HP's blackbird.

I added a Xfx black edition 260 GTX, but if I were on a tighter budget the ATI 4850 is an amazing car and in reality not very far behind the 260 GTX.

Edited February 5, 2009 by toyoguy

[Intrepidation]

I like HP, and their Blackbird looks pretty badass. Of course, if I could just get the case I'd build the rest myself.

[Z-06]

I own the XPS 720 and no you can't overclock using the Bios. I can overclock the processor only because I have a extreme edition CPU, otherwise no overclock. But maybe the new system is different. I also got an excellent price since I used dell's outlet, otherwise I'd have gone with HP's blackbird.

I added a Xfx black edition 260 GTX, but if I were on a tighter budget the ATI 4850 is an amazing car and in reality not very far behind the 260 GTX.

I remember reading in Maximum PC that Dell was finally going to give leeway to gamers to overclock starting with XPS720. May be they refused to do so. Is the XPS730 overclockable?

[toyoguy]

I remember reading in Maximum PC that Dell was finally going to give leeway to gamers to overclock starting with XPS720. May be they refused to do so. Is the XPS730 overclockable?

I dunno know about the XPS730, but the XPS720 can't be overclocked. Then again the XPS lineup is going to disappear soon.

[Z-06]

I dunno know about the XPS730, but the XPS720 can't be overclocked. Then again the XPS lineup is going to disappear soon.

Interesting. What are they coming up with then? Or removing it altogether to give Alienware breathing room?

I use Dell's Small Business solutions so I know little about its home user systems.

BTW welcome back to post again.

[Intrepidation]

Yes, welcome back toyoguy.

I've dealt with Dell's business machines as well as their home systems. It's just been my experience that far too many of them had problems...hardware and software related to want to ever bother with them.

[toyoguy]

Interesting. What are they coming up with then? Or removing it altogether to give Alienware breathing room?

I use Dell's Small Business solutions so I know little about its home user systems.

BTW welcome back to post again.

well, the XPS line is supposedly getting discontinued and Dell will focus on Alienware.

And thanks for welcoming me back guys.

[Z-06]

well, the XPS line is supposedly getting discontinued and Dell will focus on Alienware.

And thanks for welcoming me back guys.

I would much rather have Alienware. I can see where Dell is coming from especially now it is advertising Alienware on its own website.

Don't let this posting spree be one time fling, keep posting often. We need some balanced input from every perspective here.

[daves87rs]

well, the XPS line is supposedly getting discontinued and Dell will focus on Alienware.

And thanks for welcoming me back guys.

I wonder if Alienware is going to end up at Best buy then? That's the rumor I've been hearing (A few friends work at BB) that they were going to be introduced in early summer....

[toyoguy]

I saw them selling Alienware PCs last time I was over at Best Buy.

[FAPTurbo]

Building your own will often save a decent chunk of coin compared to buying a similarly spec'd system from Alienware though. In quite a few cases, it can add up to hundreds of dollars, which is money in the bank.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Captainbooyah

[Z-06]

Building your own will often save a decent chunk of coin compared to buying a similarly spec'd system from Alienware though. In quite a few cases, it can add up to hundreds of dollars, which is money in the bank.

For computers ultimately it is the balance you seek. For some it is like Camino spending time meticulously to get the mother truck up and running and for some it is dropping into a nearest Toyota and Honda dealer and picking up what they want.

[capriceman]

since dell owns alienware now I bet they will go to bestbuy. They are already for sale at MicroCenter which is a Dell retailer. They will never drop the xps name though. As they have the Studio XPS and xps laptop line. I loved my 1530 before i sold it to get my latitude. I love 14.1 15.4 are too bulky.

[capriceman]

Dell really has no more one off stuff they actually use Foxconn Motherboards. and they stoped making BTX computers.

Gateway owns Emachine and Acer. Gateway since they damn near went bankrupt starting cutting quality before other things. thus recently have been known for Dieing motherboards and PSU's. There FX laptops are failing like no other too. search some computer forums and read about there motherboards failing.

Wildmanjoe that link is a rather $h!ty computer. Nividia 9400 can barely convert a bluray.

I try to build a rig for 800 give me time.