Part II: '07 Escalade Exposed

[red]

Thanks for that info via Edmunds, evok. Interesting to hear about this vehicle's development and confirmed some suspicions about Lutz... However, this new Escalade is AWESOME. And I'm very critical, but c'mon guys...this is a Cadillac. Famous Cadillacs were always overdone and overdetailed...and that's what this new 'Slade is all about. I love the headlight treatment, the overdone grill, and overall execution. This car flows 100x better than the previous Escalade. Yes, the body isn't edgy, but it fits better than the humpbacked predecessors. The interior is a knockout...great flowing dash (finally!) great switchgear, small gaps. One question, the passenger side has a large piece (airbag area) which looks a little like an afterthought...what material is that? GM finally has the perfect product after a series of "almost, buts." Its got the style, quality, interior, and power...hopefully this is a taste to of what's to come. Keep up the good work GM and way to fight "sez who" on keeping Cadillac bold & ballsy.

[Croc]

But those costs are far outweighed by the benefits of keeping GMC around. Buick-Pontiac dealerships need GMC for sales, GMC is marketed as (and in most respects is) an upscale version of Chevrolet. The styling is less aggressive, and the overall image is one of refinement that Chevrolet just does not have. There are huge marketing costs for ANY brand, and GMC is no exception. That said, it helps spread out costs between Chevrolet, HUMMER and Cadillac. Like Mercury to Ford and Lincoln. GMC is very profitable, and GM would be foolish to get rid of it any time soon. I do not doubt that a boneheaded plan to phase out GMC was in place back in 2000 because that's the same time-frame as the boneheaded phase-out of Olds. Dumb dumb dumb. Now granted, GMC could be phased out without the huge costs of Olds due to the fact that GMC has very few (if any?) stand-alone dealerships. But again, it all comes down to two things: volume and consumers. The new Yukon and Tahoe are prime examples of two vehicles, essentially the same (different front clips, rear trim, slight interior modifications), who are marketed to and bought by two very different demographics of consumers. GM would be crazy to abandon this, especially since most GMC owners wouldn't be caught dead in a mechanically-identical Chevy. It really does not cost GM that much to design and manufacture a new front clip, taillight housings and guage cluster faceplate. Certainly nothing close to the 35-55k GMC charges for these vehicles. All those overhead costs I am sure are also minimized by the way GMC is internally set up with Pontiac. Same marketing budget between the two, and a very complementary product lineup. Sorry, I'm not buying it, especially since you yourself have said it would be crazy to get rid of GMC. :rolleyes:

[Croc]

BTW, thanks, evok, for the edmunds link. Very interesting about the front end... While I do like the new Escalade and gave the exterior an A, I wouldn't have minded an edgier design at all, though this one will probably wear a little better longer than an edgier design. So far my favorite Cadillac is still the SRX, if only the rear quarter panels had been detailed better then it would be perfect.

[mustang84]

I'm definately underwhelmed. Having the same steering wheel as a Chevy is unacceptable for a Cadillac. The grille shape is nearly the same as the Yukon and when I look at the Cadillac and GMC lights, there's just too much similarity in placement and shape to be comforting. Sure, this is a big step up from the last gen Escalade, but that's not saying much. And I did look long and hard at these photos...but I still am not wildly impressed. I love the Tahoe, but both the Yukon and Escalade have been disappointments. TOO MUCH SIMILARITY! Come on, GM!

[Innotech]

I really despise hte exterior, but hte interior is pretty fine. not quite Navigator fine, but lcose.

[Croc]

There are only two exterior details that I find "funny": 1) the little chrome flourishes beneath the wreath and crest on the grilles. The strike me as strange. 2) the location of the reverse lamps. I would have preferred them flanking the license plate bracked like in every other Cadillac.

[heintz]

I have said it before, I like a "new" vehicle to look like a "new" vehicle. I don't want to say, "it looks like the old one" or "where have I seen that before?". Great, the interior is better, the quality is better (which in a utility vehicle is more telling) but how can you feel like you are driving something special if it is a direct and (very) subtle evolution from (many) previous vehicles? Yes, evolution is safe, but revolution can sell more cars with less PR if well done. And, yes, I admit, revolution isn't a formula achievement. It needs new thinking, new risks, and cajones, but, it worked for the Chysler 300, the PT, the HHR (which IS somewhat derivative but not for GM) the Corvette, the Solstice, the Sky, the Riviera, and could work for the Velite and the Nomad.

[evok]

But those costs are far outweighed by the benefits of keeping GMC around.  Buick-Pontiac dealerships need GMC for sales, GMC is marketed as (and in most respects is) an upscale version of Chevrolet.  The styling is less aggressive, and the overall image is one of refinement that Chevrolet just does not have.

There are huge marketing costs for ANY brand, and GMC is no exception.  That said, it helps spread out costs between Chevrolet, HUMMER and Cadillac.  Like Mercury to Ford and Lincoln.

GMC is very profitable, and GM would be foolish to get rid of it any time soon.  I do not doubt that a boneheaded plan to phase out GMC was in place back in 2000 because that's the same time-frame as the boneheaded phase-out of Olds.  Dumb dumb dumb.

Now granted, GMC could be phased out without the huge costs of Olds due to the fact that GMC has very few (if any?) stand-alone dealerships.  But again, it all comes down to two things: volume and consumers.  The new Yukon and Tahoe are prime examples of two vehicles, essentially the same (different front clips, rear trim, slight interior modifications), who are marketed to and bought by two very different demographics of consumers.  GM would be crazy to abandon this, especially since most GMC owners wouldn't be caught dead in a mechanically-identical Chevy.

It really does not cost GM that much to design and manufacture a new front clip, taillight housings and guage cluster faceplate.  Certainly nothing close to the 35-55k GMC charges for these vehicles.

All those overhead costs I am sure are also minimized by the way GMC is internally set up with Pontiac.  Same marketing budget between the two, and a very complementary product lineup.

Sorry, I'm not buying it, especially since you yourself have said it would be crazy to get rid of GMC. :rolleyes:

[post="41423"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Without taking this tread off track - in an ideal world GM does not need GMC around, most of those sales would be absorbed back into Chevy - but given their dealer structure and franchise laws and uncertain truck market (up or down) and GM's foundering market share that will not happen. Now is not the time to fold GMC.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Right click on the picture and click add to favorites - go view it from your favorites and then the picture will show up in the thread.

[post="40785"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

My favorite Escalade picture would be of one that actually looked distinguished and was larger-not some Tahoe with a side air vent, different wheels and engine and a Sixteen-style grille tacked on. And why didn't they change those dopey Tahoe mirrors? I think Infiniti's QX56 is still the large luxury truck-based SUV benchmark, and this Escalade I'm seeing so far (I've seen the unveiled picture) doesn't remotely come close.

[caddycruiser]

My favorite Escalade picture would be of one that actually looked distinguished and was larger-not some Tahoe with a side air vent, different wheels and engine and a Sixteen-style grille tacked on. And why didn't they change those dopey Tahoe mirrors? I think Infiniti's QX56 is still the large luxury truck-based SUV benchmark, and this Escalade I'm seeing so far (I've seen the unveiled picture) doesn't remotely come close.

[post="41440"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Have you ever even been NEAR a QX56? Nice, burly styling, awesome power, and room galore, but they've had nothing but constant problems with bits and pieces falling off, undersized brakes that need monthly fixing or replacing, not to mention quite cheap interior parts and, most annoyingly, rattles, squeaks, and creaks like a 20 year old Cavalier.

It certainly does beat the piss out of the GM ute's (as does EVERY other competitor, save Toyota) when it comes to the 3rd seating area, and is a nice "in between" size, but I really don't think it's the class benchmark, by any means. Actually, I don't think ANY of the players in the field are at the top--that would take a combination of parts and designs from several different ones, blended into one.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

People got it into their heads that the "Sixteen" is the future styling direction for Cadillac.  That is not the case for future Cadillacs.

[post="41349"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

First; yes we did. BECAUSE that IS what GM told us when and after the Sixteen debuted.

And second; no, it seems that the future of Cadillac design will be even more watered down than the Sixteen.

[El Scorcho]

Distinctive my ass. Lutz sucks. Someone PLEASE tell him to keep his hands OFF Cadillac!! :angry: And why the hell isn't the DVD nav offered at launch?! This isn't to say that this truck sucks at all. On the contrary, the enghine is awesome, offering so many different seating configurations is a good idea, and the grille and headlights are nice. I just wish A&S wasn't dying. The interior and A-pillar back aren't distinctive at all, and the rear looks like it came off a 2000 Tahoe. I wish I could comment more on the interior, but I've only seen a couple crappy pics that don't show much at all. Edited November 10, 2005 by El Scorcho

[El Scorcho]

BTW, it's up at Cadillac.com if this hasn't been mentioned already.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

[quote]Amen AH-HA. You'd think we were on the Toyota message boards from the responses we're getting from people here.
This is the one of the best GM products to come out in over a decade and it's not good enough for them.
Fine. Be bitter. I don't care. It's getting to the point where I'm not enjoying coming to this website anymore. People are being too bitchy.[/quote]

Give me a break... It's all about OTHER peoples opinions here. First, if you promote GM all the time people b*tch because we're too biased, eventhough, *GASP* we're a GM site. Now turnabout seems to be fair play as in if we DO NOT support GM then you're pissed and don't want to come here all of the sudden..

So which is it folks? Do you want us to support GM or NOT and do you want us to be HONEST about our opinions or not?

Besides, no one says anyone here has to read what I post.

[quote]If I want to hear someone complain about GM, I'd go to Autoweek or Autoblog.[/quote]

So you want to hear cheerleading??? (Pertaining to the question)

[quote]The fact remains that the new Escalade is a great vehicle. Much better than the current one, and I like the current Escalade. It's moving upscale and providing a more universal look to the A&S theme.[/quote]

And therein lies the problem.... I can buy a "better quality" universal Toyota. Cadillac should NOT be "universal" that is Chevrolet's job or even GMC's job... Cadillac is a niche company that CONVEYS a certain attitude, style and presence... SUCCESS, not commonality or universalism. People did not buy the old Escalade because it was universal, People do not buy the CTS because it is universal, people do not buy the 300C becuse it is universal... If I based my purchase on logic, not emotion, then as an average consumer I'm going to buy the statistically "better" car and I'm not going to spend $60,000 on it.

[quote]If you guys don't like change, go buy a Toyota or a Hyundai. Their cars are all formed from the same dull piece of clay. You won't be dissapointed with each new model since it will look the same as the last model.[/quote]

Jesus Christ man, have you looked at GM cars lately???? Have you looked at GMT900?!?!?!?!? I'd SAY same piece of clay!!!

[quote]No, AH-HA is right. Y'all are being brutal, calling this thing a "Yukon clone" and other such rubbish. There is a large amount of differentiation between the three GMT-900s, more than there was on the 800s or really ever has been in the past of these vehicles.[/quote]

Yeah right!

[quote]YET the people on C&G are still finding things to b!tch about. Y'all are hopeless.[/quote]

Yet another fool on his high horse... Let's kiss up to AH-HA and act better than the average poster... I feel like puking.

[/quote]This Escalade features an ALL-NEW interior that is very much DISTINCT from the Tahoe/Yukon.[/quote]

Yes, but not better. The Denali interior *LOOKS* a lot more attractive and has a WAY better steering wheel.

[quote]The front is all new. For crying out loud the thing doesn't even have a grille! It has sixteen minigrilles located in the front sheet metal! Look at some more pictures...that is sheet metal between the grilles, not plastic.[/quote]

Wow... Something featured on Pontiac's for a year now.

[quote]So WHOOPS! there goes some of your arguments about "just swapped out a Yukon grille" I mean please how ignorant can you get?[/quote]

Look at the BASIC shape and body lines.... How ignorant can you be not to see it?

Although, the detailing in the grille is awesome.

[quote]Cadillac shouldn't be "in your face" with its styling. That just makes it another wannabe luxo-marque. Cadillac should have distinct styling that is CLASSY. NOT overdone. NOT tacky, and YES, the GMT800 Escalade is TACKY in every aspect and every sense of the word. [/quote]

It was awefully successful to be so "tacky"

[quote]Any production and sales from GMC could easily be rolled into Chevrolet. It's the same old problem of "too many divisions and too many models" at General Motors and there's no way you can argue against that....[/quote]

Sure there is; brand loyalty, volume sold by that franchise, conquesting (Which GMC does VERY well) etc.

[quote]Back in the 2000 time frame there was a business being drawn up to do just that, get rid of GMC and Olds. GMC was saved at the time because the fleet mix was changing towards light trucks. Things appear to be changing the other way right now.

You fail to take into consideration that there is a huge marketing cost associated with supporting the clones and the brand. Not to mention the structural and human costs.[/quote]

So we're going to kill off divisions intermitently now based on changing market trends?

Geez, I would've thought all of GM's divisions would be goners by now.

NOW, all this said, the more I look at it (In half decent PR shots-as opposed to the initial) the more the new Escalade is growing on me... :)

[Croc]

FOG, you are an idiot. Of course the general shape of things will be the same, but look! you CANNOT swap out an Escalade grille and put in a Yukon grille if you wanted to! Pontiacs have NOT had grilles that couldn't be swapped out. The only other GM brand that had this to an extent was Oldsmobile, and only for some models.

You wanna argue the tacky vs. successful argument, fine. But that would mean that you would be arguing that RICE isn't tacky because it is popular and lucrative.

And before you get all pissy about my calling you an idiot and screaming "personal attack!" you definitely attacked me first by calling me ignorant.

Seriously, it isn't that hard to be civil. :rolleyes:

[milleramerican]

Did anyone notice that AHHA hinted there wouldnt be a Camaro concept at the NAIAS? I hope he is joking, because if that is the case, I wont know what to do. Seriously. That will be a huge disappointment.

[thedriver]

i think the new escalade is ok, but not great. i never have caught on to the current caddy styling, and i think the sts is the best of the bunch right now. the most important thing to remember when saying the caddy is so much like the rest, show HOW FAR the chevy and gmc have stepped up in quality and execution. don't look at it like a tarted up tahoe, say instead that chevy is selling a dressed down escalade.

[Croc]

Yea...people get all riled up about things on here...and yet all indications from our insiders point otherwise. If the FBodFather thing has all been one elaborate hoax I will be laughing my ass off. GUARANTEED

[Nick]

The escalade is growing on me...first impression with the exterior weren't all that high with me...I actually liked the flares and cladding on the current escalade and thought they were a nice defining feature...some may have foudn them gaudy and "tacked-on" but I liked them. The interior seems nice, can't wait to see it in other colors and different trims...They could've done something more with all the buttons and black plastic...while it may be higher quality, I jsut find the black plastics and buttons to be somewhat of a turnoff...I want to see under the engine bay though, get some more interior shots, and really see this thing...I guess I will at the auto show...I also like the list of standar features...these 900's should be a big hit...

[Croc]

I, too, would have preferred a silver finish to the plastic, but hey, I'm not going to nitpick the best-executed Cadillac of the last 25 years. Edited November 10, 2005 by Croc

[Cory Wolfe]

Wow... this has turned into such a controversial vehicle. I can't remember one being moreso. This just says the it's not the winner half of you make it out to be while it isn't the failure the other half makes it out to be. No question about that...

Anyways, the design itself looks rather nice. Yes, I think so. However, when you have to say "the design itself...", that usually means something is wrong. Like it not being original enough. It shouldn't share any body panels with the Tahoe/Yukon. It shouldn't look like "just another" SUV as it does. I don't care what you say. It does and GM only made it "good enough". And we all know how the saying goes... So don't argue agaisnt it. It's clear as daylight.

As for the interior (which I haven't commented on yet). It looks good... but the column mounted shifter and the GM-parts-bin steering wheel are total disgraces. They shouldn't be in a vehicle like this. At all. Kind of like the shared exterior body panels... :rolleyes:

I'm sorry guys, but again I must stress that GM didn't go far enough. It's sad since Cadillac was one of GM's very few bright spots. Now they're growing overly confident and dropping the ball...

BTW, it's a freakin' war in here! :blink:

[El Scorcho]

It says on the Cadillac web site availability is early 2006. I have a feeling 2006 will be the shortest year ever for the SUV's.

[post="41517"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How do you mean?

[The O.C.]

Are you kidding me?  Maybe you should talk to you good friend evok about this, he'll set you straight.

There is a VERY good business case for GMC...namely that there are a lot of people who won't buy a Chevy, but will shell out MORE money for a 95% identical GMC.  GMC is essentially pure profit, only minor sheetmetal changes.  GMC buyers rarely cross-shop Chevy, and vice versa.

I thought you had a pretty good sense of the industry...??

[post="41396"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I FULLY understand your argument. Actually, I've always liked the GMC grille treatments and such better than the Chevy's....

BUT....for those of us that subscribe to the theory that GM still has "too many models" and "too many divisions" then for me, the logic dictates that GMC is redundant. I feel that you need Chevy trucks and then Cadillac trucks. Maybe you can badge an upscale Chevy as a GMC...I don't know...all I know is that product-wise, they are too close to make much sense as separate division all sparring for their fair share of the General's resources.

Even a LaCrosse and Impala have completely unique sheetmetal, interiors, and powertrains.

If it's marketing, not product that has primarily differentiated GMC and Chevy (assuming because product differences are very minor) then marketing (over time I'm sure) will bring people back to Chevy or Cadillac in the absense of GMC.

I still feel that it's not necessarily the best long-term decision to hang on to it because "we've always had GMC." I think, long-term, any profits lost in the short-term will be more than made up in the long-term because of a sleaker, trimmer, General Motors.

[Croc]

But making Cadillac a full-line upscale truck manufacturer just diminishes their image. Remember, Before 1998, GMC was the ONLY real upscale truck and SUV manufacturer. Only in the case of the Escalade line does GMC overlap with Cadillac. If/when the SUV/truck shifts (and I think there's a good chance Caddy will be truckless in a decade) GMC will seem a lot more logical. But making the Envoy a Cadillac? Making the Sierra, Savannah and Sonoma Cadillacs? Please...that sounds ridiculous.

[Flybrian]

If it's marketing, not product that has primarily differentiated GMC and Chevy (assuming because product differences are very minor) then marketing (over time I'm sure) will bring people back to Chevy or Cadillac in the absense of GMC.

[post="41562"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is the same theory that allayed fears about killing Olds and those buyers either hung on to their cars, bought used, or simply left GM. So...yeah...learning from history is cool.

Also, as you say yourself, the theory that GM has too many brands is a theory. One can successfully argue GM can parlay its divisions into volume (Chevy), luxury (Cadillac), and premium (Pontiac/Buick/GMC) wisely and with success. That concept, IMO, offers alot of consumer appeal over the 'what-flavor-of-Camry-would-you-like?' setup of Toyota, Honda, etc because no matter what cheap-ass aero kits and suspension tuning you put on a Camry, its still a plebian Camry that looks pretty much the same as the wheelcovered Camry CE you rent from Enterprise and the Camry LE you just traded.

GMC is key to that because it gives the midlevel brands noncar vehicles to retail. And I don't know about where the rest of you are, but in my area, you get a completely different feel when you walk into a B-P-GMC dealership than if you walk into a Chevy one. No flight of vultures hungry for meat, no goofy cutouts of Dan Marino by the door. This can be exploited as well.

You also hear that little one-liner "its a Jeep thing; you wouldn't understand." Well, no, its pretty obvious. It should read, "its a GMC thing; you wouldn't understand." There are still a class of people out there - smart, intelligent, not-blind people - who fully comprehend a Silverado is a Sierra and an Envoy is a TB, but would take the GMC without question over the comparable Chevrolet any second of the day. My father would buy a GMC over a Chevy. So would my girlfriend. Honestly, I would, too, because I like the styling better, but some people would seriously give Chevrolet a heavy sigh and a second thought if there were no GMC. The Professional Grade mantra may be pure marketing fluff, but damnit if it doesn't work.

Drive through an upscale neighborhood. Tally the GMC vs. Chevrolet ratio.

Therein lies your answer.

[Croc]

Drive through an upscale neighborhood. Tally the GMC vs. Chevrolet ratio.

Therein lies your answer.

[post="41564"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Bingo! GMC is much more white collar than Chevy. GM cannot afford to lose the buyers who just won't buy a Chevy because it is a Chevy. Car snobs like that really do exist, don't ya know :AH-HA_wink:

[turbo200]

This thing is gorgeous. I only got to see the intital two pictures on mph yesterday night, but after seeing it in different colors, the lines really come out, and that grille is fantastic. Beautiful grille. The overall front fascia, well I was underwhelmed with it from the first two pictures, but the new shot in silver really outlines the face: the lines on the hood that meet with the lines on the grille to really make this SUV smaller and sportier than it appears. The exterior gets an A+ in my book. We need to post the new pictures here, or maybe they're already posted, will look around. The interior is a slightly different story in my book, it's wonderful, it looks extremely high quality, it seems to have great differentiation and potential, but nothing says CADILLAC about it to me, you know how a CTS interior maxed out with chrome and wonderful materials would scream CADILLAC, the design just seems rather generic to me. More later

[turbo200]

I don't subscribe to the theory that GM has too many divisions, too many models. I do subscribe to the theory that there is too much overlapping and not enough distinction. Brands equate different things in people's minds. How does GAP sell under like ten different companies? How does Abercrombie and Fitch have Hollister that makes incredibly similar clothing at incredibly similar prices? How does McDonald's, Carl's Jr, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Wendy's all exist in the same market while offering the same basic food [there may be differences, but FAST FOOD is FAST FOOD]? Well it's all about minute differences and history and pricing and cateogry that make up a brand. The GMC 900s still could stand for even more differentiation, I would have loved for this to be the Terradyne, but I guess GM felt that was too bold for GMC and might overshadow the Cadillac sister. The Escalade as is has some flaws, mainly the rear and sides missing the "gaudy" tack-ons loses some flavor; the last Escalade had a lot of cohesiveness by using those tack-ons and having them included on the rear tailgates, it added an interesting flair that classed up the Escalade's sides and rears. It was always a pleasing angle to look at from the rear. I don't know if this will replecate that. But my point is there is room for these brands, though I understand the manpower it must take to run GMC. I don't really understand why all that manpower is needed, but that's another story [what's the purpose, their marketing campaign sucks anyways and all they are right now, save Envoy and Denali, are Chevy twins, where does all this manpower's effort go to]. As it is, these trucks are distinct inside and out, very classy, though there are some more details GM could've sweated. And what would have been the outcome if the Terradyne was the GMC truck?

[sciguy_0504]

Cadillac shouldn't be "in your face" with its styling.  That just makes it another wannabe luxo-marque.  Cadillac should have distinct styling that is CLASSY.  NOT overdone.  NOT tacky, and YES, the GMT800 Escalade is TACKY in every aspect and every sense of the word.

[post="41380"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Isn't A&S supposed to be in your face, bold and brash and all-American? No other cars on the road are styled like modern Cadillacs. I'd bet more people recognize modern Caddy styling than any other design a car line shares. The only thing A&S about the new Escalade is the front end and the taillights.

[pow]

FOG, you are an idiot.  Of course the general shape of things will be the same, but look!  you CANNOT swap out an Escalade grille and put in a Yukon grille if you wanted to!  Pontiacs have NOT had grilles that couldn't be swapped out.  The only other GM brand that had this to an extent was Oldsmobile, and only for some models.

You wanna argue the tacky vs. successful argument, fine.  But that would mean that you would be arguing that RICE isn't tacky because it is popular and lucrative.

And before you get all pissy about my calling you an idiot and screaming "personal attack!" you definitely attacked me first by calling me ignorant.

Seriously, it isn't that hard to be civil. :rolleyes:

[post="41469"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think he's using figurative language.

But, personally, I don't think it looks classy. The wheels don't fit the body, the front bumper is lower than either the side rocker panels or rear bumper, and so on. I realize there is only so much one can do with a Tahoe, and I commend GM for taking refinement seriously, but I don't know... it just leaves me cold. Why can't the side sheetmetal, like the SRX's, have some crispness to it? Why can't the interior look like a Cadillac and not an ES330? Look at the Range Rover's: it matches its exterior and its philosophy, like a British-owned resort in the Swiss Alps. The new Escalade is a fine car, but I just wish GM designed it more. I mean, even the 9-3 to BTS transformation is more successful, IMO.

More than that, I'm beginning to worry about Cadillac's general styling direction and identity. While the CTS wasn't the most cohesive car in the world, it reinterpreted classic Cadillac design cues, like the modern tailfins and "V" crease on the trunklid. What does the Escalade have other than the grille?

For a Lexus, I would have accepted it. But this is supposed to be the standard of the world. Edited November 10, 2005 by empowah

[KaliRover]

First impression....



Interior : A

Exterior : B +


Overall : A -

[The O.C.]

But making Cadillac a full-line upscale truck manufacturer just diminishes their image.  Remember, Before 1998, GMC was the ONLY real upscale truck and SUV manufacturer.  Only in the case of the Escalade line does GMC overlap with Cadillac.  If/when the SUV/truck shifts (and I think there's a good chance Caddy will be truckless in a decade) GMC will seem a lot more logical.  But making the Envoy a Cadillac?  Making the Sierra, Savannah and Sonoma Cadillacs?  Please...that sounds ridiculous.

[post="41563"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Nah.....Envoy COULD be a Cadillac (baby Escalade) but Sierra, Savannah, and Sonoma would more than easily be rolled into the corresponding Chevrolet versions...

[turbo200]

This Escalade has all the right elements to be best in class. There are slight details I am disappointed with, like the sides could have a more A&S appeal about them, and the interior design is not designed enough as some others have pointed out. But the exterior is what will make this SUV--again. The first Escalade sold largely on its looks and the fact that it was a Cadillac SUV, at a time when the SUV boom was getting underway. The second Escalade again sold on looks, set itself apart completely from other SUVs and became the first Caddy with A&S design. It helped that it had good road manners and a great engine. This Escalade trounces all of those and is a wonderful improvement, while being the right evolution in design. The exterior will again set this apart, and heck might even start a new craze for the SRX, as soon as Caddy gets around to putting this grille on the SRX. [Anybody want to try photoshopping the new grille onto current Caddys?] The exterior is hulking, dynamic, emotive, high-tech, while looking very very sophisticated. I sound like a press release, but I am very ecstatic about this vehicle and would like for everyone else to look at the positives of this car. Come on, 400 hp and the mileage of a typical V8 sedan! Well, maybe somewhat lower, but you get the picture. The hybrid will be out in no time too. The interior is fantastic for what it is. Yes, there could have been more risk Caddy could have taken, but the quality seems to finally be ready to play in the big leagues, and that is a large accomplishment within itself. I think there are enough interesting things going on inside to make the design more than worthy of the high lux category. All the interesting lighting tricks, that great big navigation screen, and the granite trim as well as the wooden trim. All in all this is a solid A effort from GM.

[Croc]

Nah.....Envoy COULD be a Cadillac (baby Escalade) but Sierra, Savannah, and Sonoma would more than easily be rolled into the corresponding Chevrolet versions...

[post="41616"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But what about the upscale ones? The Chevrolet brand just doesn't have the image to offer credible, upscale versions of its trucks. That's where GMC comes in. Whereas Ford just has the Ford brand to market the F-150 as well as the Lariat, GM has Chevrolet for the Silverado and then GMC for the Sierra. It just fits to have an upscale brand, even if the products are essentially the same. Again, look at Mercury. There just is that something a little special about Mercury that Ford doesn't have. It is just a step up...

[johnnyb]

First; yes we did. BECAUSE that IS what GM told us when and after the Sixteen debuted.

And second; no, it seems that the future of Cadillac design will be even more watered down than the Sixteen.

[post="41451"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh god. That's a hit in the chest right there. :(

Please don't tell me the clunky DTS lights will now be the future direction.

I just don't understand GM sometimes. You get a big hit, then you water it down. The Sixteen was a BIG hit, but if you call this SUV Sixteen influenced, you have to have some vision problems.

You guys had it, damnit, you had it!

I guarantee you that if the future Cadillac were in fact Sixteen influenced, it will overtake ANY luxury brand. It was perfect, it was sleek, it was the past and future together, and it was boldly American.

Mind my language, but who was that f*cked up the plans?

[Cadillacfan]

Give me a break... It's all about OTHER peoples opinions here. First, if you promote GM all the time people b*tch because we're too biased, eventhough, *GASP* we're a GM site. Now turnabout seems to be fair play as in if we DO NOT support GM then you're pissed and don't want to come here all of the sudden..

Believe it or not, I’ve noticed this for a while now. It’s certainly not a new opinion of mine.

This is the perfect example on what the members are becoming on C&G. Pessimistic about everything that GM pumps out and making predictions of failure based on nothing but your opinion. Nitpick at every small insignificant detail. That's not being a critic, that's being self-centered. Just because you don’t like it’s look automatically means it’s crap. Fine, keep that opinion but don’t go around preaching it and scoff at anyone who doesn’t agree with you. GM isn't perfect but it has come a long way. You cannot deny that. So wait, where is that optimism? It's been sucked out by the automotive press who have been bombarding everyone with stories of GM falling from grace and how the Big 2 are doomed for all eternity. Okay. We get it. Now let them regroup. But no, they've got to keep twisting the knife and scare away shareholders. I'm not saying that GM isn't responsible but there clearly is more negative press then there needs to be. But that's me going into one of my rants.

Back to you...
It's either your way or the highway. Right?
You can say whatever you want and you can comment on whatever I say but you have no idea what the Escalade looks like in person and you're already going off on how GM doesn't know what they're doing and that Lutz is an old fart, etc...

I will agree with you on how GM is still making big mistakes, but the Escalade is the best effort from GM the Cadillac brand in years. It doesn't have to rely on gimmicky styling like the current Escalade had to.
It's finally a true Luxury SUV and it's aimed at current luxury buyers who don't really care for the A&S theme.
This is what this car is meant for. Conquest sales. It's not for enthusiasts who think they know what's best for the brand. There aren't enough out there to make this vehicle to be profitable contrary to what you believe.
That being said. The Escalade is clearly a Cadillac. It may look like another bad rebadge to you, but it's more Cadillac then what the GMT800 ever was. If you can't see it, then I don't know what to tell you. That's your OPINION.

People did not buy the old Escalade because it was universal 

You’re right. They didn’t. They bought it because it was popular. See the Prius? Ugly car, slightly above average gas mileage in real driving conditions, but it’s still selling because everyone else and their sister is buying one. Most people aren’t really buying it for the gas mileage. They’re buying it because the want to buy everything the celebrities buy.

Jesus Christ man, have you looked at GM cars lately???? Have you looked at GMT900?!?!?!?!? I'd SAY same piece of clay!!!
Yeah right!
Yet another fool on his high horse... Let's kiss up to AH-HA and act better than the average poster... I feel like puking.

Yeah.. I don’t know why you’d think that just because I agree with Ah-ha means I’m trying to act all-knowing and powerful. That’s your job… right?
Whatever issues you have with Ah-ha, take it up with him and not me.


I’m really surprised with you FOG. You seemed to have jumped on the anti-Lutz bandwagon too. Not surprising. Everyone’s taking a shot at him lately since apparently he wants to make GM fail.

[Northstar]

I think the details are simply amazing. If the XLR had this amount of detail it'd be better than the SL, and by far.

No, it's not as bold and brash as the current model, but the majority of luxury car buyers don't want something that's bold and brash. Why do you think a lot of BMW lovers hate the Bangle look? It's too bold and not nearly as refined looking as the old BMWs they loved. Yes, Cadillac should be more bold and American than BMW or MB, etc., but that doesn't mean they should be as bold as possible.

IMO, if Cadillacs are the boldest vehicles in their respective classes, then they essentially accomplish the task of being bold, because there's nothing else that's bolder which they compete with.

Now, let's compare:

Escalade:


Navigator:


GX470:


QX56:


Is the Escalade by far not the boldest one of the group? I guess you could make a case that the QX is more in-your-face, but it also looks retarded.

Now for the interiors:

Escalade:


Navigator:


LX470:


QX56:


I'd say the Escalade and LX430 are by far the two best here, and IMO the LX's center console and stack don't flow nearly as well as the Escalade's do. When was the last time you could honestly say a Cadillac interior was equal to or maybe better than a competing Lexus in terms of fit and finish and attention to details (design being objective)? The Navigator has painted plastic that's supposed to look fancy, and the QX is basically the exact same thing as the Armada. Oh, and Nissan didn't seem to take much crap for that, did they?

I'd also like to point out for all those steering wheel bashers out there that the Navigator is the only one that has a unique steering wheel (and it's pretty similar to the Expedition). Furthermore, I doubt that anyone comparing an Escalade to it's competition will throw in a Tahoe to compare, so they won't even know it has the same basic wheel as a Chevy. They might throw in the Denali, but I doubt they'll get a negative vibe because the Denali and Escalade share a wheel.

[fordrules]

New Navigator will be sweet!

[Nick]

personally, I think the look of the navigator's interior is the best by far, followed by the QX and 'Slaed tied for second, and the GX trailing as far as looks go anyways...

[turbo200]

thanks for the comparison northie, the escalde is by far the best of that group; much more elegant and sporty event; great details...all the other ones just look so ungainly by comparson, something with the proportioning of the Escalade just makes it looks so much better.

[turbo200]

as far as interiors go, the escalade wins by a good margin, imo. the navigator has a good design but the colors clash, strongly, there are too many strong colors that don't go well together.

[Paolino]

Wow... I really don't like the exterior. I like the interior, LOVE the gauges, but overall, I'm a little disappointed. I think I will like the interior a lot when I see more pictures, however, I don't care for the exterior much.

[Guest Josh]

Ok....we need to get back on track. Of course the future of GM rides on these vehicles.....but lets not go at it as a community.

[-Camaro-]

All you people saying this is just a tahoe and saying it's a step backwards make me LAUGH!!! First of all, what aggressive past escalades? The previous two looks were dull, not aggressive. Especially the first, you should be thankful this escalade isn't as bad as the first one in the 90's. The interior is fine and think about this, most people didn't like the previous escalade when it came out..

[randrand60]

TYPICAL GM DISSAPOINTMENT. TALK ABOUT UNDERWHELMING! THE EXTERIOR, WELL LETS SAY KNOW ONE WILL NOT MISTAKE IT FOR THE NEW GM TRUCKS - OTHER THAN A FEW MODIFICATIONS (YEAH YEAH GM CORPORATE BOYS WILL GO ON HOW PANELS HAVE CHANGED, DONT SHARE ANYTHING, BLAH BLAH, TELL THAT TO SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IT). CAN SPOT THAT MULE A MILE A WAY. THE INTERIOR - IT DOESNT EVEN BEAT TODAYS COMPETITION MUCH LESS THE FUTURE TRUCKS AND SUVS COMING DOWN THE PIPE,COUGH, TOYOTA. EVER SAT IN A ROVER, TOUREG, THOSE BEAT IT HANDS DOWN IN THE LAYOUT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THE QUALITY OF TEXTURES AND MATERIALS. SORRY GM BLEW IT AGAIN, BIG TIME, AND THIS IS WHY YOU CANCELLED ZETA TO DEVOTE MORE TIME TO THIS PROGRAM. THE SHAME. IVE SERIOUSLY GIVEN UP ON GM, AND WACTH THE MARKET SHARE CONTINUE TO SLIDE BOYS - NOT A WARNING, BUT A FACT. NO MORE BELIEVEING WE HAVE THE PRODUCT! WE HAVE THE PRODUCT! SPEECHES. DO YOU KNOW WHY GM WAS KING OF THE MARKET BEFORE? BECAUSE THEY LED, AND DID NOT FOLLOW - AND THIS IS WHAT THESE TRUCKS ARE, SAFE, MIDDLE OF THE PACK MULES. SORRY. IM GETTING MY T-SHIRT DONE NOW WITH THE FOLLOWING WORDS: BOB LUTZ KNOWS crap! RAND. PS FOR THE GUY WHO BELIEVES THE CADILLAC INTERIOR IS BETTER THAN THE FORDS (AND I AM NOT A FAN OF FORD) YOURE OUT TO LUNCH AND NO BETTER THAN ALL THE OTHER APPEASERS FOR GM WHO ARE NOT BEING HONEST, OR SIMPLY DONT KNOW BETTER, BECAUSE...THE FORD INTERIOR BLOWS AWAY THE CADDY'S - WHATS WITH THE COLUMN SHIFTER! IM IN 2006 NOT 1956!

[mystik]

You know...I was pissed until I saw a GM photo of the current Escalade. Go look at it. It looks droopy compared to the GMT-900 Escalade. It looks different in photos. Up close and in person, the 800 Escalade looks more aggressive and edgier. This one we are seeing in photos. Exterior owns the Nav, and the Lexus, and DEFINITELY the QX56. That SUV seems like a hiccup in Nissans otherwise great design group. The Navigator's interior is far too "filler". The Escalade IS better than the Navigator and no one can deny that. Period. The GX interior is ok with the exception of a few tacky details that no one would notice unless its on a GM vehicle. That tacky tape player looks like it came out of a Corolla. That crummy digital clock that looks pulled out of the IS. The QX56 interior looks like it was designed by a blind mand with no hands. The hell were they thinking? Its gaudy, obtrusive and does not flow well at all. Just like the rest of the truck. From what Ive read, it doesnt drive much better than it looks. So LOL at that Infiniti. Of the 4, the Escalade IS the best, interiorwise and exteriorwise. There is no question. So with that said I change my grades to B+ exterior and A interior. I like it more every time I look at it, and now that I see the competition, well...it will be class leading in every aspect. It'll also easily be the best selling of the 4.

[ichbinjohnk]

TYPICAL GM DISSAPOINTMENT. TALK ABOUT UNDERWHELMING!
THE EXTERIOR, WELL LETS SAY KNOW ONE WILL NOT MISTAKE IT FOR THE
NEW GM TRUCKS - OTHER THAN A FEW MODIFICATIONS (YEAH YEAH GM
CORPORATE BOYS WILL GO ON HOW PANELS HAVE CHANGED, DONT
SHARE ANYTHING, BLAH BLAH, TELL THAT TO SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES
IT). CAN SPOT THAT MULE A MILE A WAY.

THE INTERIOR - IT DOESNT EVEN BEAT TODAYS COMPETITION MUCH LESS
THE FUTURE TRUCKS AND SUVS COMING DOWN THE PIPE,COUGH, TOYOTA.
EVER SAT IN A ROVER, TOUREG, THOSE BEAT IT HANDS DOWN IN THE
LAYOUT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THE QUALITY OF TEXTURES AND MATERIALS.

SORRY GM BLEW IT AGAIN, BIG TIME, AND THIS IS WHY YOU CANCELLED
ZETA TO DEVOTE MORE TIME TO THIS PROGRAM. THE SHAME.

IVE SERIOUSLY GIVEN UP ON GM, AND WACTH THE MARKET SHARE
CONTINUE TO SLIDE BOYS - NOT A WARNING, BUT A FACT.

NO MORE BELIEVEING WE HAVE THE PRODUCT! WE HAVE THE PRODUCT!
SPEECHES. DO YOU KNOW WHY GM WAS KING OF THE MARKET BEFORE?
BECAUSE THEY LED, AND DID NOT FOLLOW - AND THIS IS WHAT THESE
TRUCKS ARE, SAFE, MIDDLE OF THE PACK MULES.

SORRY. IM GETTING MY T-SHIRT DONE NOW WITH THE FOLLOWING WORDS:

BOB LUTZ KNOWS crap!
RAND.

PS FOR THE GUY WHO BELIEVES THE CADILLAC INTERIOR IS BETTER
THAN THE FORDS (AND I AM NOT A FAN OF FORD) YOURE OUT TO LUNCH
AND NO BETTER THAN ALL THE OTHER APPEASERS FOR GM WHO ARE
NOT BEING HONEST, OR SIMPLY DONT KNOW BETTER, BECAUSE...THE FORD
INTERIOR BLOWS AWAY THE CADDY'S - WHATS WITH THE COLUMN SHIFTER!
IM IN 2006 NOT 1956!

[post="41767"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Turn off your f*cking caps lock!

I've sat in a few Navigator interiors, and save for the design, I really wasn't very impressed at all, even compared to the current Escalade. And, do tell, what makes a console shifter far more mordern than a column shifter? I know they're more sporting, but the column shifter is out of the way of the dash, since it's an automatic (or manumatic, however little the feature would be used, anyway), That opens up the console for more space, like for a lot of the larger pro athletes who'll be buying these. If it's THAT huge of a problem, then the console shopper just may go settle for the "fantastic" Navigator (and we know what noble & worthy competition that brand is to Cadillac...since anymore it competes with mere BUICK). Edited November 11, 2005 by ichbinjohnk

[Paolino]

I will say this, that Nav screen is HUGE! Especially compared to the ones in the other GMT-900s! That's hot. I am so anxious to see more pics of this... would love to see the gauges illuminated in the dark! So, if Caddy gets blue-illuminated gauges, what are the chances we'll see white-LED lit gauges in Buicks soon? It'd be nice to bump up the quality of all of the IPs for GM. :)

[randrand60]

No use for profanity for having caps on by accident. I Like his comment though, other than the "design" being better in the Ford interior... ahhh, what am I paying premium for if a vehicle 1/2 the price beside me LOOKS better inside????? You tell me it takes this many years for redesign and this is what I get? Please look back at the previous quotes by GM interior desingers, and I paraphrase "You think the Ford Truck interiors are something, well they didnt take it far enough, we did". Gentleman you are all fired. Then again the shareholders have been watching GM bleed from one fiasco to another: Fiat, A billion dollars for plastic on Opel Saturns, and the list goes on. Still, Wagoner sits on the board saying "I finally got it" Yep, you finally got it, be a long day before I buy one of your products (although going out this weekend to get a corvette). Typical GM - never learns from its mistakes. Most of these comments on this board simply say - WOW what an improvement. Well, it certainly does not put them in front of the SUV market. Anyways, a moot argument here. I've given up on GM other than the odd odditties that somehow on occasion squeeze out a homerun, ie. the Corvette (see above) or the Solstice sisters. Good luck GM, you will need it.

[mystik]

Heh. How is it again that the Navigator's interior is better than the Escalades? Quality and textures? You've never even sat in the damn thing, you can barely see the level of finish on the plastic inside and your mouthing off on plastics and materials. Take a good look at those two pathetic Japanese entries. They PALE in comparison to the Lade interior. Not even close. If you think they are, then hand me some very high wading boots, because your kidding yourself. Stuff that doesnt set it apart:

1. Better exterior than rivals
2. Better interior than rivals
3. More power than rivals
4. Better gas mileage than rivals
5. More options than rivals

Oh yeah...none of that sets a new standard for SUVs. 403 HP? Tell me what Jap SUV will touch that. NONE. So you can kid yourself all your want about how all that cheesy white plastic on the Navigator looks good, and we can just be content with a class leading effort by GM.

Edited November 11, 2005 by mystik