RIP G8 ST

[hyperv6]

Yeah, great.

You can watch Barret Jackson next year and GM might be selling some of the prototyoe ST's off.

Just buy one from them.

[Camino LS6]

You can watch Barret Jackson next year and GM might be selling some of the prototyoe ST's off.

Just buy one from them.

If they don't crush them all, and I can manage the cost, I'd do just that.

[cire]

BTW,

Current word is that Pontiac is looking at keeping the G8, G6 and Solstice as it's three models. I think that would be an excellent line up.

The next question to ask is "for how long?". I don't think GM is planning to invest any more time or resources into the Kappa or Zeta platforms. Unless GM is planning on moving the G8 or Solstice to some version of Alpha in the future (and I don't believe they will), then these 2 models will be dropped after their current model cycle. If the Solstice coupe isn't a sales success (which will be difficult in an unstable economy), then I can see GM closing down Kappa production sooner than anticipated (especially since the corporation claims it loses money on each car it produces). On the other hand, the current G8 could see a long model cycle. It has some degree of utility (being a large 4-door sedan) and a timeless design that should age well over time. If GM takes enough interest in it to give it timely updates/improvements/facelifts, then it could continue in the Pontiac lineup for quite some time into the future. The only thing that I think is extremely doubtful about the G8 is that there will be a next gen model, at least anything resembling the current car.

As far as the G6, the sedan version will be redundant in the B-P-G lineup when the new Insignia based Buick Regal reaches North America. Unless a next gen model is going to be built on Alpha (which again, I seriously doubt), then there won't be a next gen midsize sedan from Pontiac after the new Regal arrives. I believe this might be the reason why the facelifted version of the current G6 was such a halfhearted effort. GM didn't see the need to spend much money on this car when they had a much better product (the Insignia) ready to be placed somewhere in the B-P-G network. I could see GM continuing the life cycle of the G6 coupe and convertible beyond the introduction of the new Regal, but I doubt GM will invest much effort or resources in keeping it updated or competitive.

The biggest lack of logic in this bit of news is the discontinuation of the Vibe. If GM cancels/discontinues the G3 and G5, the Vibe (which is an exclusive to Pontiac in the GM kingdom) would be the only FWD based small vehicle product at B-P-G until GM can supply Buick or Pontiac with North American built next gen Opel products. I have a hard time believing that GM would leave B-P-G without such a product for that long a period.

I believe the news in the quoted post is a smokescreen to conceal GM's real intentions for Pontiac. If Pontiac has any future at all, then I believe it will be in a radically different form from what it is today. I'm not trying to be a downer (although I know I am to some extent). I'm just trying to be realistic to prevent any inevitable personal disappointments in the future (like the one Camino LS6 is currently experiencing over the cancellation of the G8 ST). I think it is commendable that many of you still have hopes about a performance future or even a future for Pontiac. I just hope GM lives up to your expectations.

[Camino LS6]

As an aside, I find it interesting that the GM cars at the B-J Auction are heavily Pontiac.

Curiously, the 1980 Grand Am pickup (El Camino) was pulled from the sale at the last minute.

Odd goings on.

[Robert Hall]

As an aside, I find it interesting that the GM cars at the B-J Auction are heavily Pontiac.

Curiously, the 1980 Grand Am pickup (El Camino) was pulled from the sale at the last minute.

Probably didn't want to remind people of the stillborn ST.

[hyperv6]

Probably didn't want to remind people of the stillborn ST.

Or they needed it to haul things at Milford.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Maybe corporate politics were the root of the cancelation...

GM never seemed too hip about the G8 ST anyway. It would've certainly detracted from the image of Pontiac. (Idiots like C&D we're already cracking dumbassed 'mullet' comments and the like)

But some people believe that GM will STILL add another Zeta vehicle to the Camaro line. What's left? 1) Zeta Buick.... But honestly, with the new LAX and it's AWD replacing the Lucerne and the (supposedly) impending Alpha Buick, what's the point? 2) Zeta Cadillac... Maybe, but wasn't it supposed to be produced at LGR? And sadly, unless it's a TRUE 7 series competitor, I don't think Cadillac sees the need for anything larger than the CTS. They will instead focus on Alpha and it's potential. 3) Impala replacement? Nope... GM won't give up the volume. Impala is going on stretched Epsilon. 4) Anything from Pontiac? We all know the answer to that.

So, again, what's left? 1) A production version of the Denali XT and/or 2) The rumored replacement for the Escalade EXT. Think about it, GM can kill the very small ST program and produce one of those two variants instead and benefit CAFE much more, sell many more units and make a lot more profit on each unit.

So, ironically, what Camino suggested a very long time ago (about the Escalade moving to Zeta) might be the cruel irony that caused the cancellation of his beloved ST.

I don't think Pontiac is dead and I don't think the ST cancellation will phase the division that much (over all) Holden is doing all sorts of things to keep Zeta viable for future use, that will automatically transfer to the G8 line. Unless GM is seriously literally losing it's ass on Kappa (which I doubt given the low volume) the program probably won't be cut, especially considering exports. As for the G6... If GM refreshes the car correctly and grows Buick away from Pontiac at the same time, it'll be more relevant than ever (especially in the absence of the Aura)

[Camino LS6]

Wouldn't that be a nasty bit of irony?

You can rest-assured that they'll only offer it with four freaking doors too!

[hyperv6]

Well guys enjoy it while it last. The 4 cars we will have all have a limited life.

G8 Zeta how long will this one last?

Solstice after losing the Sky will die sooner with little hope of a replacment in the next few years.

The G5 is gone after we lose the Cobalt in a year or two.

The Vibe is not even a Pontiac and will last as long as GM keeps this agreement with Toyota.

I give Pontiac 5 years or less.

The only hope we have is if they have models planned to replace these we do not know about. im not holding my breath. I think this plan get the most out of these models and keep Pontiac alive till later when a dealer buy out is budgeted. At least a buy out of those who are left.

Note in my town the largest Pontiac dealer just bought one of the largest Chevy Dealers. They were the largest Olds dealer before they bought out the largest Buick and Pontic dealers. They bought the Pontiac a few years before Olds went down.

I think someone there has a clue.

Edited January 12, 2009 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

But some people believe that GM will STILL add another Zeta vehicle to the Camaro line. What's left? 1) Zeta Buick.... But honestly, with the new LAX and it's AWD replacing the Lucerne and the (supposedly) impending Alpha Buick, what's the point? 2) Zeta Cadillac... Maybe, but wasn't it supposed to be produced at LGR? And sadly, unless it's a TRUE 7 series competitor, I don't think Cadillac sees the need for anything larger than the CTS. They will instead focus on Alpha and it's potential. 3) Impala replacement? Nope... GM won't give up the volume. Impala is going on stretched Epsilon. 4) Anything from Pontiac? We all know the answer to that.

Remind me what's going to be built at Oshawa again? Impala and Camaro simply cannot support the volume that these two factories are capable of putting out.

[Camino LS6]

Remind me what's going to be built at Oshawa again? Impala and Camaro simply cannot support the volume that these two factories are capable of putting out.

Probably Fords or Toyotas in a few years.

I see no recovery for Pontiac, nor GM itself if they don't temper their current approach.

GM is still trying to be Toyota - that strategy will continue to fail as it always has in the past.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Remind me what's going to be built at Oshawa again? Impala and Camaro simply cannot support the volume that these two factories are capable of putting out.

Last I heard, the only rumored vehicle is the new Regal.

Other tidbits:

*Pontiac has been said to have as many as 4-6 products as a niche brand (said today at NAIAS)

*Those have included the G5, which some believe might either be the current car for longer than the Cobalt is produced OR a coupe counterpart to the sedan only (because GM is apparently dumb) Cruze. The Cruze is supposedly biger and more premium than the Cobalt, which would leave the G5 room to exist.

* The G8 has been mention in EVERY article as a vehicle that stays.

* Mark LaNeve said that the G8 ST COULD be on again if the market recovers.

* The G6 has, curiously, been left out of some of the articles as a model that will continue

* The G3 looks to be a short run, for sure as it isn't included in any of the mentions.

* The Solstice and Solstice coupe are both mentioned as staying multiple times.

[Camino LS6]

* Mark LaNeve said that the G8 ST COULD be on again if the market recovers.

Oh boy!

I just can't take any more of this back and forth.

[Robert Hall]

Oh boy!

I just can't take any more of this back and forth.

Maybe they can leave it up on Pontiac's website and change the release date to say 'Coming soon!'...

[Drew Dowdell]

* Mark LaNeve said that the G8 ST COULD be on again if the market recovers.

I'm seeing reports of unemployment approaching a true 18%

[gm4life]

The way I se it is this:

GM needed a patsy to please the Congress

They chose Pontiac

The ST was an easy sacrifice so they could play show and tell at any future hearings

end of report.

Not to get political but that is what happens when the goverment gets involved in the private sector. BINGO. Don't worry the goverment will regulate the industry they "saved" and cars like a Solstice, Camaro, G8, CTS, and GMT-900's will be few and far between or not at all. Letting the goverment get in is the last thing GM needed and the last thing performance junkies should have wanted. I recall most everyone around hear saying give 'em the money... I think they would be better off without the goverment telling them what to build, and let the consumer decide and drive the market. Why trucks old sold cars in December again right? Damn politicans, they do a bad enough job running the country why should they run GM and screw us out of fun cars? Less goverment is always better in this case it holds true. Pontiac was made a symbol, we will get rid of all this to show we are serious about changing our ways, in the mean time will loose market share and piss loyal Pontiac owners like me off.

[Intrepidation]

Not to get political but that is what happens when the goverment gets involved in the private sector. BINGO. Don't worry the goverment will regulate the industry they "saved" and cars like a Solstice, Camaro, G8, CTS, and GMT-900's will be few and far between or not at all. Letting the goverment get in is the last thing GM needed and the last thing performance junkies should have wanted. I recall most everyone around hear saying give 'em the money... I think they would be better off without the goverment telling them what to build, and let the consumer decide and drive the market. Why trucks old sold cars in December again right? Damn politicans, they do a bad enough job running the country why should they run GM and screw us out of fun cars? Less goverment is always better in this case it holds true. Pontiac was made a symbol, we will get rid of all this to show we are serious about changing our ways, in the mean time will loose market share and piss loyal Pontiac owners like me off.

Well GM had little choice but to turn to the government since it pissed away so much money over the decades.

[ShadowDog]

Another "Build it" car [see Chevy SSR] that would have sat and sat in lots.

Niche vehicles for fans will not bring in the gross profits so desperately needed, but would waste resources required to arrange a lineup that could produce long-term sustainability. This car would have been nothing more than a display of market positioning and image. Even the best car ever made in the world sold in extremely limited numbers would not help to save a brand, much less GM.

Not to get political but that is what happens when the goverment gets involved in the private sector. BINGO.

Without the involvement of the government to this point, GM would already be closed for good. There is far too much reading into these business decisions. I agree that it is only going to get worse before things start to get better. Sticking to a game plan developed prior to the financial crisis would be a disaster; yet, so many around here are crossing their fingers in the hopes that their favorite model, platform or development will 'make the cut'. So many around here also have a reason why such cuts to their idea of GM's path to success would be a bad move. So who has the right answer? All or none?

I'd save the crying towels to keep them dry in order to be used as wound-dressings later.

[Satty]

Apparently he'd rather have no GM (or a Chinese owned GM) than a GM bailed out by the government.

[Camino LS6]

Well, if nothing else, this certainly poisoned the start 0f 2009 for me.

I've never waited 20 years only to be teased and disappointed before.

[BatmanGTO]

Well, if nothing else, this certainly poisoned the start 0f 2009 for me.

I've never waited 20 years only to be teased and disappointed before.

Couldn't we just steal two of the show cars?

[Sixty8panther]

GM is still trying to be Toyota - that strategy will continue to fail as it always has in the past.

Yup.... so true.

[Camino LS6]

I wish.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm seeing reports of unemployment approaching a true 18%

Hence "could" and not would.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well, if nothing else, this certainly poisoned the start 0f 2009 for me.

I've never waited 20 years only to be teased and disappointed before.

What about that girl in high school?

[Camino LS6]

What about that girl in high school?

Waiting 20 years wasn't on the agenda.

Nor was it required. :AH-HA_wink:

[BatmanGTO]

Waiting 20 years wasn't on the agenda.

Nor was it required. :AH-HA_wink:

Bow chica bow bow?