RIP G8 ST

[fightingbee]

It was a cool idea, but you could already hear the GM haters talking about how all they can make are trucks.

[Robert Hall]

Well, if they narrow the brand down to G3, G5 and Vibe, maybe they can make a G3 ST... maybe FWD car-based subcompact pickups will be a growth market.

[Satty]

ORLY?!?!

Seems that 40K a year in this segment is niche any way you cut it. (That's ll they intended to sell in the first place)

Lets see, GM says they intend to sell 40,000 of them, one can only assume they arrived at this number because it would be a profitable one that could be attained. They knew there would be production and transportation restraints (any idea how hard/expensive it would be to ship 200,000 cars from Belgium?) so they didn't even pretend it was going to be super high volume. That said, 40,000 cars would be quite a bit, a good sized niche, if you will, considering the Rabbit sold about 25,000 in 2008 while MINI sold a bit over 42,000 cars total. Those are the two closest competitors to the Astra (as a car) I can come up with. So selling a quarter of that (they sold what like 11,000 in 2008?) tells me that the market made it niche, at least more niche than intended.

[regfootball]

saturn made some major mistakes there. first thing would have been to have the sedan, package the options and pricing different, and then add armrest cupholders, bluetooth, and ipod jack. and then maybe they could have added some engine. well, if you don't put the effort into it, you won't get it back out.

[Chevy Nick]

That sucks....bad move on GM's part.

[Camino LS6]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090106/FREE/901069981

"With Pontiac being more focused on sporty fun to drive cars, we took a long look at the ST and it didn't fit with what our future vision of Pontiac would be," Hopson says. "At that point, we decided to not proceed with this vehicle."

Complain all you like, but a lot of people will think this is good news for Pontiac.

But they are wrong, Pontiac is finished.

And I just don't give a crap anymore.

[gmcbob]

Yeah, sorry Camino. I did actually start saying out loud "boooo!" when I read this. I actually thought this was a pretty cool car. Oh well.

Although I do think GM needs to really concentrate on high volume stuff right now and really concentrate it's efforts on really nice, affordable, high volume small and mid size sedans. Oh, and an awesome really big rear drive Zeta based uber LS460 fighter that's either badged as a Cadillac ULS or Buick Electra.

[Intrepidation]

So want me to make you a sig with a Challenger on it? :wink:

[Camino LS6]

So want me to make you a sig with a Challenger on it? :wink:

Nah, if you do that Chrysler will fold next week just to keep my "happy streak" going.

[daves87rs]

Sorry Camino..this really sucks...

And I know why they cancelled it-the only had to look at the G8 sales.....and they are not looking good.

This pretty much soildified the rumor I heard about the G8 itself being done very soon........

[daves87rs]

But they are wrong, Pontiac is finished.

And I just don't give a crap anymore.

Yep.

One only has to look at the current lineup to see that......

[Z-06]

Pontiac announced to its dealers today that the 2010 G8 Sport Truck is cancelled.

"As part of the ongoing vehicle review resulting from

GM has been continuing its "review" endless number of time NOT now.

the long term viability plan

I am starting to believe GXT -> Yes I said so, that GM does not have ANY plan.

submitted to Congress, Pontiac is being refocused

For the umpteenth time.

on producing sporty, fun to drive cars.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

This quote should go for one of the most unintelligent statements for 2009. What is sporty and fun to drive apart from G8, and Solstice GXP?

Given this direction and the strong lineup of Pontiac vehicles currently available,

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Another one for the competition above. What is strong other than G8 and solstice?????

we did not feel that the G8 ST fit into the future vision of the Pontiac brand.

What is the vision -> to throw the brand into abyss?

This decision has no effect on the G8, G8 GT, or the just launched G8 GXP" Jim Hopson of Pontiac told High Performance Pontiac today.

What does that have to do with the sedan?

GM needs a reality check. I am not a Pontiac person, but like I have always emphasized a lack of long term, salient, strong, and undeterred strategy is what is DESTROYING GM. If GM needs to be successful and be profitable again they have to have some balls and implement some bold moves.

This action and those supporting comments have put GM back on square one. I honestly think the guys in Renaissance center have hearts on their sleeves and brain in the toilet all the time. I think Ford is miles better than GM as at least they are sticking to their guns and moving, GM on the other hand have wasted more by these knee jerk actions than gained any by canning the products half way through. All that development, retooling, advertisement $ have been wasted.

If GM would not have planned a RWD Impala, G8 ST, and other cars in the first place, they would have saved even more money. GM would have at least made enthusiasts hope that future would arrive with better cars. With these ambivalent moves they are even ruffling feathers of their die hard customers, and they want to lure import brand people? GOOD LUCK GM you are on path of anti-recovery faster than ever!

I am starting to lose faith in RW and co. whom I supported openly for being a farsighted fella.

Edited January 7, 2009 by smallchevy

[XP715]

Another nail in the coffin if you ask me.

How many people do you think belong to this site because they're fans of what General Motors used to be, not what they currently are or will become? I know I fall into that category.

[gm4life]

Oh really?

How about all the wasted development money?

Or the fact that the Aussie dollar has plummeted against ours?

Or the fact that they only planned to build 5000/year?

Or the fact that all parts of this vehicle are already in production?

No.

This is a political decision, and a stupid one at that.

I agree this was a no-brainer and cost GM like next to nothing, might as well build it.

[bobo]

I'm disappointed but not surprised. GM needs some high-volume hits, not niche vehicles, and the lackluster sales of the G8 did not bode well. Pontiac also doesn't have a built-in clientele for a pickup, and there would have been marketing costs spread over very few vehicles.

Seeing the market response to the G8 would have been fascinating. Would have El Camino fans embraced it and be the pent-up demand that could have bought out the first few years of production?

[daves87rs]

Another nail in the coffin if you ask me.

How many people do you think belong to this site because they're fans of what General Motors used to be, not what they currently are or will become? I know I fall into that category.

Sadly, XP, I might be falling into that group if things keep going this way....

[Blake Noble]

Sadly, XP, I might be falling into that group if things keep going this way....

I fell into that category of people when I chose to buy my Cutlass over a new Camaro. :AH-HA_wink:

So join the club. As painful as it will be, we'll all watch GM and the countless number of stupid f@#kers in the higher-ups who run the company trip and stumble over itself/themselves as the company goes down in flames from the driver's seats of the cars that truly represented GM to us.

Edited January 7, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[Croc]

Who knows, maybe it will show up as a Chevrolet, as it really should have been in the first place.

[Sixty8panther]

WTF.... How did I miss this thread!?

Is this a joke? How could this be?

My condolences go out to you Camino.

Considering all of the work was basically done, why not jsut go ahead and sell it? Even without advertising it'll still sell to El Camino fans if no one else. A sale from a product that was already developed is better than spending the money to bring it to market only to pull the pug and waste that money for nothing.

You just can't understand the genius of GM, for

instance did you know that GM saved $30 billion

by killing the B-body in 1996 & thereby HANDING

over the ENTIRE BOF-V8-RWD car market to

FoMoCo, and thereby ensuring they would never

again be a serous player in the police/taxi/limo

market, never mind alienating thousands of old,

loyal customers... the math is all there.

[/Knee-Deep Sarcasm]

[regfootball]

Another nail in the coffin if you ask me.

How many people do you think belong to this site because they're fans of what General Motors used to be, not what they currently are or will become? I know I fall into that category.

its near impossible.

a few bright spots like the cts, equinox, g8, camaro....keep one BARELY hanging on.

Edited January 7, 2009 by regfootball

[hyperv6]

Hmmm?

Lets see, We are hurting for money and we have to becareful where we spend out money.

Do we keep the car we did not invest much in that will sell in limited numbers and make little if any profit depending on the value of the dollar? Or do we invest in sedans and other cars that sell closer to 200,000 units per years and are expected to make money since they are not imported.

GM has to take a step back to basics to pay the bills and if they do that the good fun cars will return later. If they do not fix the problems of being able to make a profit selling cars and beating the compitition in the primary markets all the new Vettes and G8 ST's will never return.

The basics of trying to sell up to 200,000 Cruze's may not be fun but they many save GM not a car that only has 5,000 units sold.

Also the fact Pontiac is getting cut to one vehicle may have something to do with this. Just might be it is not a G8 as so many assume.

Keep in mind the G8 ST could also get a Chevy nose graft and become an El Camino in due time. If Pontiac is gone this car could get a second chance with the Chevy nose Holden uses. There are options here yet.

If GM can do a good job selling boring cars the good cars will come. Things are so bad Honda [king of boring] and others are killing some of the fun things. It is still going to get much worse before it improves. We have more to worry about than a low volume pick up.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Lets see, GM says they intend to sell 40,000 of them, one can only assume they arrived at this number because it would be a profitable one that could be attained. They knew there would be production and transportation restraints (any idea how hard/expensive it would be to ship 200,000 cars from Belgium?) so they didn't even pretend it was going to be super high volume. That said, 40,000 cars would be quite a bit, a good sized niche, if you will, considering the Rabbit sold about 25,000 in 2008 while MINI sold a bit over 42,000 cars total. Those are the two closest competitors to the Astra (as a car) I can come up with. So selling a quarter of that (they sold what like 11,000 in 2008?) tells me that the market made it niche, at least more niche than intended.

The point is; it was a niche product to begin with. What the market "made it" has nothing to do with the conversation.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Camino, you know you have my sympathies too.

Being a GM truck enthusiast, I was excited to see this product return to the marketplace. It might not have sold in the volumes an outsider would have expected it to, but the true enthusiasts would appreciate GM giving them a vehicle they wanted. I couldn't wait to see them in the dealerships, and on the road too (I'm sure it would be far between spottings, much like the G8 sedan, but it would be fun to see them regardless).

I know it may be hard to believe for some, seeing as how it was only shown in concept with no real backing for production, but this is how I felt when the GMC Denali XT was taken out of consideration (I was looking forward to seeing that come to market).

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Hmmm?

Lets see, We are hurting for money and we have to becareful where we spend out money.

Do we keep the car we did not invest much in that will sell in limited numbers and make little if any profit depending on the value of the dollar? Or do we invest in sedans and other cars that sell closer to 200,000 units per years and are expected to make money since they are not imported.

I agree and disagree.

The G8 is "icing on the cake" because the Commodore has already paid the bills. The G8 is profitable regardless of what it sells. But I do see your point and I agree. We can either suffer (more, for longer) now or suffer for good.

Also the fact Pontiac is getting cut to one vehicle may have something to do with this. Just might be it is not a G8 as so many assume.

That is and always has been a myth according to Mark LaNeve.

[Robert Hall]

If Pontiac gets cut to 3 vehicles I'm going to assume the worst--i.e. the G3, G5, and Vibe. Buick will have the larger FWD models.

[hyperv6]

I agree and disagree.

The G8 is "icing on the cake" because the Commodore has already paid the bills. The G8 is profitable regardless of what it sells. But I do see your point and I agree. We can either suffer (more, for longer) now or suffer for good.

That is and always has been a myth according to Mark LaNeve.

The G8 may be of a profit but with limited units sold the profits are limited by volume alone. Do you spend money on a limited profit vehicle or one that could prove to be more profitable in greater volumes? The Cruze will also be profitable with it being sold world wide but with more volume to bring more reward.

Also how long will GM keep the G8 coming with pending CAFE and or if the price of oil goes back up.

If we get high oil again the car companies have to decide do we try to wait it out or do we risk it and keep what we have.

I see small cars and smaller engines on the fast track and the Zeta just playing it out till it get phased out. I see GM and most others going conservitive on product development unless it is alturnitive.

This is one hell of a time to be a product planner with oil and economy changes hourly and product development still in years.

[Chicagoland]

Another "Build it" car [see Chevy SSR] that would have sat and sat in lots. A few may have sold the 1st month for over MSRP, then after, just like the Holden GTO, only with heavy discounts. And all the 'I'd have bought one' people were not willing to pay $36K, they'd buy used in 10 years, "if their wives let them". But, it is not 1970, and one can't 'wait' for new 'El Caminos' to depreciate to their budgets.

Even actual Pontiac dealer admitted to Autmotive News that they didnt really want to try to stock and sell it.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Chicagoland

[hyperv6]

Pontiac needs a world class G6 that is worth a dam more than anything else.

The G6 sell well now just think if it was a even better car. This would do more to support or change GM or Pontiac than anything else.

Imagine a car Better all around than the Malibu that the magazines all brag about. Something more performance oriented and just cool to look at and still be affordable.

[Intrepidation]

Pontiac needs a world class G6 that is worth a dam more than anything else.

The G6 sell well now just think if it was a even better car. This would do more to support or change GM or Pontiac than anything else.

Imagine a car Better all around than the Malibu that the magazines all brag about. Something more performance oriented and just cool to look at and still be affordable.

It's selling to Avis more than anything ibet. All the G6 is good for is keeping the Malibu out of rental lots.

[Camino LS6]

Hmmm?

Lets see, We are hurting for money and we have to becareful where we spend out money.

Do we keep the car we did not invest much in that will sell in limited numbers and make little if any profit depending on the value of the dollar? Or do we invest in sedans and other cars that sell closer to 200,000 units per years and are expected to make money since they are not imported.

GM has to take a step back to basics to pay the bills and if they do that the good fun cars will return later. If they do not fix the problems of being able to make a profit selling cars and beating the compitition in the primary markets all the new Vettes and G8 ST's will never return.

The basics of trying to sell up to 200,000 Cruze's may not be fun but they many save GM not a car that only has 5,000 units sold.

Also the fact Pontiac is getting cut to one vehicle may have something to do with this. Just might be it is not a G8 as so many assume.

Keep in mind the G8 ST could also get a Chevy nose graft and become an El Camino in due time. If Pontiac is gone this car could get a second chance with the Chevy nose Holden uses. There are options here yet.

If GM can do a good job selling boring cars the good cars will come. Things are so bad Honda [king of boring] and others are killing some of the fun things. It is still going to get much worse before it improves. We have more to worry about than a low volume pick up.

I reject this entire premise.

For decades now, we have been promised the good stuff only to have it cancelled for junk no one wants.

I doubt that GM is even able to sell the "boring" stuff no matter how good it might be.

Sorry, but I don't have any faith in them anymore.

As for the ST, this decision makes no sense at all from a business standpoint. No money will be saved, it has only been wasted on what amounts to a broken promise.

I am now one of those they will have to win back - good luck to them.

[prototype66]

I predict..........

2012 new redesign Impala and ElCamino show up.

Too many people bitchin about the whole :Pontiacamino" thing and the budget cant to it now but............

p.s.

I voted to name it TREMMOR

Edited January 7, 2009 by prototype66

[Camino LS6]

Those idiots still have it on Pontiac.com

http://www.pontiac.com/showFutureG8SportTruck.do

"available late 2009"

bastards!

[Intrepidation]

If they're gonna cancel the ST they should cancel the G3 as well.

After all, it's a rebadge of yet another Chevy, and no one with a brain will buy it because it's a piece of $h!.

[Satty]

Avis will.

[Intrepidation]

Touche

BUt that's what the Aveo is for anyway.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Dodgefan

[Satty]

Maybe Avis can upcharge for a G3. Since people on C&G think Pontiacs are worth more, maybe car rental customers think the same way, and will pay $16.99/day for a G3 instead of $14.99/day for an Aveo.

[Camino LS6]

G3 is no Pontiac, nor is the G5, nor is the Vibe.

Pretender junk.

[prinzSD]

First they said they would never bring the wagon version and now they cancel the ST version. What goobs GM policy makers are. Now, I can not think of another GM product that will be car based, rw drive, V8 powered that can carry a load and the occasional lawn mower. There goes my reason to buy an "airsoft equipent carrier module" (AECM). It may be a good reason to kill it off perhaps because of the Congress bailout deal, but I am starting to care less for GM and it is getting to the point where I am less likely to defend GM in debates among family and friends. Maybe Wagoner and company really needs to go. Pick a plan and f**king stay with it for christ sake and stop changing the ship's path midstream.

[prinzSD]

The Emo one or the normal one?

I am sure he will come along and chime in "I told you so" while pontificating on his hidden agenda.

[Camino LS6]

First they said they would never bring the wagon version and now they cancel the ST version. What goobs GM policy makers are. Now, I can not think of another GM product that will be car based, rw drive, V8 powered that can carry a load and the occasional lawn mower. There goes my reason to buy an "airsoft equipent carrier module" (AECM). It may be a good reason to kill it off perhaps because of the Congress bailout deal, but I am starting to care less for GM and it is getting to the point where I am less likely to defend GM in debates among family and friends. Maybe Wagoner and company really needs to go. Pick a plan and f**king stay with it for christ sake and stop changing the ship's path midstream.

Amen!

[regfootball]

The point is; it was a niche product to begin with. What the market "made it" has nothing to do with the conversation.

minis are selling well now because its 'an entry level bmw' and 'its good on gas'.

if gas were cheap and people had cash flow like they used to, same folks would be buying real bmw's and other fashion conscious cars.

the mini is the 'aspirational small car'. consequently, it is stepping on VW's upper end cars. for once, someone is saying, i could get this INSTEAD of a jetta, instead of a rabbit.

point being is if some people have to slum it and buy a small car they still want something trendy and the mini fills the bill which is why it sells well now. if the economy were more vibrant, more people would buy it for better reasons, handling, design, uniqueness. right now its just an icon in time.

[Satty]

The Mini is selling well now? Our sales figure archives have some holes, but:

From Nov. 2006

YTD 2006 36,699

YTD 2005 38,384

From Nov. 2007

YTD 2007 38,483

From Nov. 2008 (For the sake of continuity)

YTD 2008 50,511*

*11,311 of those were the Clubman, which came out this year

[hyperv6]

This cut was seen coming from a mile away so no one should be suprised.

It is time for some to deal with the reality that niche cars are great in good economic times as when this car was concieved. But today it is time to get back to the baisics.

GM as do all auto companies about getting back to the core buisness. They need to worry about the cars the majority want and not just the cool neat cars a few will ever buy or be able to afford.

Right now the high mileage affordable cars are going to rule. People are losing their jobs and taking pay cuts so who ever win the market for affordable is going to survive.

I too hate to see the ST go but some times you have to grow a pair and just deal with it. I sometimes thing many here just really do not grasp how bad things really are. When you see Nissan, Toyota and Honda making cuts and putting new product on hold that should be a big red flag.

GM needs to take care of the core product first and what ever money they would spend even just printing up the marketing material and lunch for the press release for the ST would be better spent on product that may just save the company.

GM is not out of this yet and still can turn it around but they can not afford many more mistakes or wasted money.

Once the good time return we will get the good stuff back. Things were bleak in the 70's and 80's but it came back.

Adapt and react to the market or die!

GM putting out the ST now is just an example of what got them into trouble in the 70's. Wrong product at the wrong time. You would sell some when it first comes out but in the next 2-4 years it will fail.

[Camino LS6]

Sorry, can't forgive this one.

And, no, I don't think the good stuff is ever coming back anymore.

I just don't buy that old line this time.

This is the end.

[Brougham-Holiday]

I think for GM this was an obvious decision. The last thing they need to show Congress should they need more help in the future is the newest addition to the Pontiac range: A V8 truck with limited sales. This is going to be the first of many cuts made at Pontiac. I see the future of Pontiac as G8 and Solstice only with the possibility of a performance coupe in the future, non of the other models including the ST (I voted to call it the Judge last year on Pontiac's website) G6, G5, and G3 do not fit the model GM has for Pontiac.

Who knows, since GMC is one of the "core" brands, we may see this concept again.

[hyperv6]

I think for GM this was an obvious decision. The last thing they need to show Congress should they need more help in the future is the newest addition to the Pontiac range: A V8 truck with limited sales. This is going to be the first of many cuts made at Pontiac. I see the future of Pontiac as G8 and Solstice only with the possibility of a performance coupe in the future, non of the other models including the ST (I voted to call it the Judge last year on Pontiac's website) G6, G5, and G3 do not fit the model GM has for Pontiac.

Who knows, since GMC is one of the "core" brands, we may see this concept again.

Can't agree more.

The future of Pontiac may not even be sold yet as it may be a new model or two we have yet to see. They have not given a time line yet.

This stuff is changing daily so GM may not even have it hammered down yet.

Just think about the poor guys working on this stuff to only get it killed in the last min. The Impala team must not be happy.

[Intrepidation]

Pontiac is dead I think. Long live the G8 and Solstice.

[Camino LS6]

Can't agree more.

The future of Pontiac may not even be sold yet as it may be a new model or two we have yet to see. They have not given a time line yet.

This stuff is changing daily so GM may not even have it hammered down yet.

Just think about the poor guys working on this stuff to only get it killed in the last min. The Impala team must not be happy.

No one is happy because GM is incapable of making a plan and sticking with it, they second guess themselves into irrelevance. At best, they are always late to the party.

That's what's wrong with them, and what has shredded their credibility.

Their word isn't worth spit anymore, thus my anger.

[Intrepidation]

And they fight amongst themselves trying to kill other divisions and platforms instead of working together to be better than the competition. There are people in GM whose sole purpose is to kill Zeta, on of GM's very best platforms, for example.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Dodgefan

[Camino LS6]

And they fight amongst themselves trying to kill other divisions and platforms instead of working together to be better than the competition. There are people in GM whose sole purpose is to kill Zeta, on of GM's very best platforms, for example.

And each new interesting car is undermined by GM itself before it even debuts!

The self-sabotage just disgusts me.