Not good for Camino. (G8 ST being "reconsidered")

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...812150340/1078

Pontiac will bring G3 but reconsiders G8 ST

Rick Kranz

Automotive News

December 15, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT — Although Pontiac plans to trim nameplates in the next three years to possibly one vehicle, the front-wheel-drive 2010 G3 subcompact will arrive on schedule next spring.

But General Motors is reconsidering plans to launch the 2010 G8 ST sport pickup late next year.

"We are having lots of discussions," said Susan Docherty, vice president of Buick-Pontiac-GMC. "We would be foolish if we didn't take a second look at whether or not that is the right thing to do."

GM developed the G8 ST on the G8 platform. Enthusiasts had compared the pickup to the Chevrolet El Camino, which ended production in the late 1980s. The G8 ST pickup was created by GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia. GM projected sales of about 5,000 units annually.

Meanwhile, the 2010 G3 subcompact will have a sticker price below $15,000. The car is essentially a Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Aveo but won't have a long life in Pontiac's lineup.

"We always knew that the G3 was a bridge strategy: We told that to our dealers," said Docherty. "This will help us through this period of time where fuel efficiency and affordability are the two top reasons for people who are purchasing in that segment of the market.

"It will fill a void for us on a short-term basis. We needed it in the economic environment we are in, but the G3 does have a limited life cycle."

***Good news and bad news I guess... I think the G8 ST could really be successful here *IF* it were marketed and supported correctly. i.e. I think the core of the line up needs to take on the Ridgeline with the enthusiast models left for us. But, with the way Pontiac seems to be going, I'm not sure that would happen anyway. If I were GM, I would at least bring it over to test the water for either a GMC (Denali XT) or Chevy version. Dougherty just said that the G8 takes minimal investment. A GMC Denali XT would looks good sitting on the floor next to a updated G8 ST ***

Edited December 15, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Pontiac could be a one-car brand

Rick Kranz

Automotive News

December 15, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT — The Pontiac brand next decade may be trimmed to one nameplate — or it could have as many as three.

"We need to skinny it up, get it very focused and then create a very special role for Pontiac within the BPG channel," said Susan Docherty, vice president of Buick-Pontiac-GMC. "But it needs to be with a very focused entry or entries."

Pontiac now has six nameplates.

This month, General Motors submitted a recovery plan to Congress, revealing a lesser role for Pontiac in the next decade. GM will reduce the number of companywide nameplates to 40 by 2012, from 48 today.

"We are not going to spend tons of money on product development" for Pontiac, Docherty said.

GM's product development dollars will go to its four core brands — Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC, she said. Instead, Pontiac may rely on an import or imports such as the G8, assembled by GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia.

"The Pontiac G8 is a perfect example," she said. "With a minimal amount of investment, we are able to have a unique entry."

To distinguish Pontiac, Docherty said Pontiac and Buick should have separate vehicle architectures. Sharing architectures "would not fill the mission of what we said in the long-term viability plan, of (Pontiac) being very focused, very specialty or niche."

Pontiac will continue to market six models in 2009. The Torrent crossover will be dropped, but the G3 subcompact will be added. Nameplates will die in the following years.

Docherty said none of Pontiac's nameplates is safe: "I would tell you that the white board is clean. Anybody that tells you that we got this thing figured out today, exactly what it's going to be, the answer to that is, no."

*** Interesting.... I wonder why GM decided to 'dynamite' it's second best selling car division? Lack of funds (probably) jealousy from Chevrolet? (Maybe) Fleet sales and poor ROI? (Maybe)

Can anyone enlighten me? I must say, while I like the idea of a focused Pontiac, I'm a little nervous about trusting GM to do the right thing. Especially if the line up consists of only one model and no funds for product development. Could this, in fact, mean that Pontiac is the next Mercury? I guess Pontiac will equal Holden on the global scene after all.

So Pontiac = Holden and Buick = Opel/Vauxhall. Saturn = ?????***

Edited December 15, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'd like to see a G8 line (coupe & sedan or sedan and ST) a G6 line (The next Solstice could take on this role in coupe, convertible and sedan form) and some entry level car.

Call them whatever you want to.

[cletus8269]

Call them whatever you want to.

without excitement vehicles i'd call em closed... bummer

[wildcat]

The title of this thread "Not good for Camino" should be changed; it isn't about one particular poster here and doesn't reflect the importance and magnitude of Docherty's comments.

The Pontiac brand next decade may be trimmed to one nameplate . . . "We are not going to spend tons of money on product development" for Pontiac, Docherty said . . . Docherty said none of Pontiac's nameplates is safe . . . "

[Intrepidation]

The title of this thread "Not good for Camino" should be changed; it isn't about one particular poster here and doesn't reflect the importance and magnitude of Docherty's comments.

Why not? Everyone who knows anything about Camino knows that he wants one of these more than probably any of us here.

[gm4life]

I agree with DF. And if this is true one Pontiac car that is nuts, dealers will cry foul. GM will give them a few models I am betting but no Vibe wouldn't break my heart. I already have my Pontiac SUV so I am happy.

[wildcat]

Yes, I understood the reference to "Camino" from the get-go; but the shocking news stated in these two stories is the Pontiac may be chopped down to one model, that Pontiac won't get much (if any) product development money, that no Pontiac nameplate is "safe," etc. If that isn't worthy of a headline...

Oh, never mind.

[hyperv6]

My guess is they will sell what ever Holden offers in a RWD to either....

Wait till they can afford more product and keep the name alive.

Or two to starve the line and dealers till they leave or drop so GM does not have to buy them out.

Either way it is not good for Pontiac.

FYI I am sorry to say I am not suprised.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I think it could be a good thing, if done correctly.

I am worried, but I have faith that GM knows that the division still has appeal. If GM wanted to just kill off Pontiac, they could've just phased the division out or said they were planning to (Like they basically did with Saturn)

If that were the case, why would GM beat around the bush? The dealers, the ones that will oppose this, are screwed either way and will seek some type of compensation from GM.

I don't understand why the dealers would be pissed. They'll be getting higher priced Buicks that they can make more money off of anyway.

I still don't understand GM's and it's loyalists desire to kill Pontiac... The division certainly sells, despite a less than stellar line up and it pulls volume at that. Why would GM even limit it in the first place? Do they know something we don't know?

P.S. I edited the title of the topic as a compromise. The original title was just "Not good for Camino"

Edited December 16, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well I know it's Christmas and all, but I sure hope Camino no longer believes the Snowman (LaNeve = The Snow). I tried to warn him in this thread http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...6931&st=140 (post 154) but Camino chose to believe the Snowman instead of me.

How's that working out for ya?

[smk4565]

The dealers, the ones that will oppose this, are screwed either way and will seek some type of compensation from GM.

I don't understand why the dealers would be pissed. They'll be getting higher priced Buicks that they can make more money off of anyway.

When they go into bankruptcy, the dealers will be out of luck and won't get any compensation.

My nearest Pontiac dealer is Pontiac-GMC-Saab-Hummer, looks like they'll just be GMC and compete with the Chevy dealership half mile away.

[hyperv6]

Im worried it is getting late and No Camino?

Can someone call him to see if he is ok?

This one may have been enough for him to blow a gasket bigger than a Quad 4.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well I know it's Christmas and all, but I sure hope Camino no longer believes the Snowman (LaNeve = The Snow). I tried to warn him in this thread http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...6931&st=140 (post 154) but Camino chose to believe the Snowman instead of me.

How's that working out for ya?

And this is why everyone hates you...

An agenda of self promotion above all else. (Gee, sounds like a typical GM career culture)

And, for the record, the writing has been on the wall about this for a while now... 1) Dead Zeta, 2) No promotion or mention at most levels of press 3) Little hoopla in the media 4) The name delay, etc.

I hope GM decides to bring it here, but I know this isn't a top priority.

Edited December 16, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[buyacargetacheck]

I think this could work. Pontiac = a fast, good-looking, substantially-sized, sports sedan. Drop the "G8" name and just call it "Pontiac 3.6" and "Pontiac 6.0" and "Pontiac 6.2" Sorry, but the whole Ute thing just seems like a bust for the American market.

Maybe it makes sense to do the same with Buick by building a traditional full sized sedan (restyled Park Ave with portholes and lots-o-chrome) as its only focused offering. The make and model of the one car in the US is "Buick" (maybe "Buick Super" for the V-8 and "Buick Special" for the V-6). China can keep building a full-line of whatever their market accepts as Buicks.

Cadillac gets an EpII sedan and a Lambda to replace the LaCrosse and Enclave. Cadillac then competes with Lexus for comfort buyers and BMW for sport buyers. No DTS luxo boat - that's Buick's job.

GMC should focus on medium-duty trucks only and Chevy should stop selling those.

Bite the bullet and spend a Billion on buying out Saturn dealers if GM can't sell it. Ditto for Saab and Hummer.

Merge Chevy, Cadillac, Pontiac, Buick and GMC dealers in major metros and wherever else the market will allow.

GM needs money: Enter bankruptcy and have both the bankruptcy judge and Bush/Obama make clear by very loud and frequent public statements that all five brands will survive and that the Full Faith and Credit of the US Government will stand behind any warranty claims of existing and former GM brands.

GM gets lean and focused with Chevy and Cadillac to take on Toyota while preserving its heritage.

[VenSeattle]

Well... It goes along with what we were told a few weeks ago: Pontiac will become like what Corvette is to Chevrolet... apparently that means a one-model brand. So, are we talking about the final realization of a Pontiac Banshee? IMO, the only way for GM to actually achieve this with a minimal investment would be to help spread the development costs of the C7-Corvette by including Pontiac.

The beauty of this idea is that Pontiac could get away with using a turbo 4-cyl, a V6, and/or a V8. (I don't believe we'll ever see a Corvette with a turbo-4 or V6, but a Pontiac version of the Corvette would allow for a variety of powertrains.)

Just my :twocents:

[Intrepidation]

I think it would make sense to have Pontiac be a one nameplate brand. The G8 is one model with 3 variations. So you could have the sedan, ST, and wagon. Theres nothing else like them in GM's fleet, plus it's relatively cheap to do.

[bobo]

I would have thought that Pontiac's popularity in Canada would mean something for the survival of the brand.

One of the few interesting vehicles at the L.A. autoshow:

There should be some pent-up demand for the ST, but it would very much be a niche vehicle. It couldn't cost much for GM to bring it here, but it won't do anything for the bottom line either.

I do hope they bring it here. If it turns out to be a dud, I'd consider buying one at a firesale price.

[ocnblu]

G8 coupe, convertible, sedan, ute and wagon. Turbo-4, V6s and V8s in a few flavors each. It sounds good, but I'd still want the Solstice coupe and roadster in there, too.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I want 3 models...

Either; G8, Solstice and an entry car --or-- Solstice, and Alpha line and an entry car.

[Camino LS6]

Im worried it is getting late and No Camino?

Can someone call him to see if he is ok?

This one may have been enough for him to blow a gasket bigger than a Quad 4.

Thanks for the concern.

I've been sick for the last few weeks and not online at all.

As for this continued foolishness from GM management, nothing surprises me. They have been disappointing me for several decades now and I've learned to expect it.

Should the ST be cancelled, I will likely stop caring very much and quit thinking about new cars anymore. It is entirely possible that I'll never buy another new vehicle from anyone, especially GM.

Not grandstanding here, just telling it like it is.

Without the ST, there will simply be no motivation for me to either believe in GM any longer nor to desire a new vehicle. I know what I like, I will only buy what I like, and If GM won't build it I'll just do it for myself.

I will never buy any new car that I don't really like, that's just stupid.

No FWD

No sedans

No asian cars

No Buicks

Not now.

Not tomorrow.

Not ever.

There are decades worth of existing cars that appeal to me out there already - I can and will satisfy my car addiction that way.

[Intrepidation]

Hey Camino, you could always import a Ute. :wink:

[Camino LS6]

Hey Camino, you could always import a Ute. :wink:

Very difficult and expensive, and if you actually get it done you have a ton of restrictions about driving it.

I'd more likely buy a wrecked G8 GXP and transplant the drivetrain into an old Camino instead.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Should the ST be cancelled, I will likely stop caring very much and quit thinking about new cars anymore. It is entirely possible that I'll never buy another new vehicle from anyone, especially GM.

Not grandstanding here, just telling it like it is.

Without the ST, there will simply be no motivation for me to either believe in GM any longer nor to desire a new vehicle. I know what I like, I will only buy what I like, and If GM won't build it I'll just do it for myself.

I will never buy any new car that I don't really like, that's just stupid.

...

There are decades worth of existing cars that appeal to me out there already - I can and will satisfy my car addiction that way.

So no matter what you're not giving them any incentive to build a new car that you would like.

Not that I know how you COULD...

[Robert Hall]

Very difficult and expensive, and if you actually get it done you have a ton of restrictions about driving it.

I'd more likely buy a wrecked G8 GXP and transplant the drivetrain into an old Camino instead.

I suspect with the previous gen ones people have imported them to the US as parts (ute bodyshell, etc) and assembled them here using GTO front clips, interior parts, drivetrain and titled them as GTOs, like this one..

Expensive to build, no doubt.

I'm sure if the ST doesn't happen, people will build 'em from G8s eventually..

[Camino LS6]

So no matter what you're not giving them any incentive to build a new car that you would like.

Not that I know how you COULD...

Umm... what?

I have no idea what your post means as written.

[Camino LS6]

I suspect with the previous gen ones people have imported them to the US as parts (ute bodyshell, etc) and assembled them here using GTO front clips, interior parts, drivetrain and titled them as GTOs, like this one..

Expensive to build, no doubt.

I'm sure if the ST doesn't happen, people will build 'em from G8s eventually..

Yeah, I was in touch with a guy that did just that. I wanted to buy it, but the timing wasn't good.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I meant that you being totally happy with old cars would give GM no incentive to build a new car that you would like. But I don't know what you could do that would make them want to build a new car you'd like.

It sounded a lot better in my head.

[Camino LS6]

I meant that you being totally happy with old cars would give GM no incentive to build a new car that you would like. But I don't know what you could do that would make them want to build a new car you'd like.

It sounded a lot better in my head.

OK, I think I get what you are saying.

But, I have been buying new GM products at a steady pace for years, so I think they would want to keep me doing just that.