Auto bailout bill dies in Senate

[ellives]

So in the end, the UAW puts the final nail in the coffin. It would be a fitting final chapter for GM who apparently will never be able to rid itself of the albatross. I suppose a dying animal will do anything to survive, including kill another. It is, however, the one consolation from this whole morass, which is the final demise of the UAW which will finally be gone no matter what the outcome of this attempt at legislation. Good riddance.

*** Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States. ***

Link to Article

CNN) -- Senate Democrats and the White House failed to find 60 votes to end debate on a $14 billion auto bailout bill and bring it to a vote Thursday night, killing the measure for the year.

The 52-35 vote followed the collapse of negotiations between Senate Democrats and Republicans seeking a compromise.

"We have worked and worked and we can spend all night tonight, tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday, and we're not going to get to the finish line," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said on the Senate floor before the vote. "That's just the way it is. There's too much difference between the two sides."

Reid acknowledged the bill would not survive the procedural vote.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.

Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research. Watch the market ramifications of the bailout failure »

The House easily passed the bailout bill earlier this week, but it quickly ran into trouble in the Senate, where Republicans objected to several provisions. Negotiations Thursday involved a compromise proposal put forward by Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, but the senators could not reach agreement.

The collapse of negotiations could possibly doom General Motors to a bankruptcy and closure in the coming weeks, with Chrysler potentially following close behind.

While Ford Motor has more cash on hand to avoid an immediate crisis, its production could be disrupted by problems in the supplier base, as could the production of overseas automakers with U.S. plants such as Toyota Motor and Honda Motor. Watch how the automakers crisis has a ripple effect on Asia »

The struggling automakers may get some money anyway.

As part of their effort to urge skeptical Republicans to back the deal, Bush officials made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, according to the sources familiar with the conversations.

One of the sources said that a White House official made it clear to a GOP senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.

The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of private conversations.

Democrats pressed the White House from the start to help Detroit by using some of the $700 billion for the financial sector, but the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson refused.

"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now consider using the TARP money," Reid said after Thursday night's vote.

CNN's Dana Bash and Ted Barrett contributed to this report.

Edited December 12, 2008 by ellives

[avant1963]

You put the blame on the wrong people. It's the workers fault, not the management or politicians playing games? Very authoritarian of you.

If management would have pushed the government in the 90's for single payer healthcare, there would be parity. But that's "socialized" medicine. How England doesn't fall to the communists, I'll never know!!!

If politicians (both Dems and Repubs) didn't play games with this bill and let it fly through like AIG, Citi and the big bailout, we wouldn't be here.

In the United States, we should never ask anyone working full-time to give up their healthcare, no matter if they are part of a union or not. Get rid of the job bank? Yes.

Looks like I'll be buying used for the rest of my life.

P.S. - Mitch McConnell is a c**t.

# Voted YES on promoting free trade with Peru. (Dec 2007)

# Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)

# Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

# Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)

# Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)

# Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)

"In an interview with the Louisville Courier-Journal, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) noted that despite the economic turmoil in Detroit, Toyota plants in Kentucky are sitting pretty:

“We also have other auto manufacturers who are doing quite well,” McConnell said, naming Toyota’s Georgetown, Ky., operation. “It happens not to be American companies and that is sad. But it’s not like we don’t have success in the auto industry. We do.”

"

"It is difficult to ascertain the exact amount of tax subsidies provided to the foreign automakers because they are provided by so many localities and in different ways, including property tax breaks and corporate tax abatements. One study found that the total subsidies to foreign automakers exceeded $2 billion."

Dick Shelby is a c**t.

"Shelby represents the views of many members of Congress who say they oppose a taxpayer bailout and plan to join him in trying to defeat the measure. In an interview yesterday, he defended his support for tax breaks for foreign auto companies, which he praised for offering cars that the public wants. "They know what they are doing running efficient plants," said Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, which held hearings on the bailout last week."

[avant1963]

Also realize that the bill would have passed (52 votes for), but because the Republicans can't let a bill go through to a vote (basically last night was a vote for cloture, a vote to see if we should vote) without filibustering - requiring 60 yes votes to vote on a bill.

Back in 2005, the Republicans were "appalled" that the Democrats would ever think of using this "subversion to justice" but in the past two years the Republicans have used it more that any sitting Senate in history. If the RePUGS would have let it go to a real vote, it would have passed.

[ellives]

At least you can't say I don't speak my mind. Management certainly has some culpability however they're dealing with the hand they've been given. The UAW has been a complete failure at unionizing the transplants. This is, at the core, why the UAW is at fault. Any other position is indefensible.

You put the blame on the wrong people. It's the workers fault, not the management or politicians playing games? Very authoritarian of you.

If management would have pushed the government in the 90's for single payer healthcare, there would be parity. But that's "socialized" medicine. How England doesn't fall to the communists, I'll never know!!!

If politicians (both Dems and Repubs) didn't play games with this bill and let it fly through like AIG, Citi and the big bailout, we wouldn't be here.

In the United States, we should never ask anyone working full-time to give up their healthcare, no matter if they are part of a union or not. Get rid of the job bank? Yes.

Looks like I'll be buying used for the rest of my life.

P.S. - Mitch McConnell is a c**t.

# Voted YES on promoting free trade with Peru. (Dec 2007)

# Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)

# Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

# Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)

# Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)

# Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)

"In an interview with the Louisville Courier-Journal, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) noted that despite the economic turmoil in Detroit, Toyota plants in Kentucky are sitting pretty:

“We also have other auto manufacturers who are doing quite well,” McConnell said, naming Toyota’s Georgetown, Ky., operation. “It happens not to be American companies and that is sad. But it’s not like we don’t have success in the auto industry. We do.”

"

"It is difficult to ascertain the exact amount of tax subsidies provided to the foreign automakers because they are provided by so many localities and in different ways, including property tax breaks and corporate tax abatements. One study found that the total subsidies to foreign automakers exceeded $2 billion."

Dick Shelby is a c**t.

"Shelby represents the views of many members of Congress who say they oppose a taxpayer bailout and plan to join him in trying to defeat the measure. In an interview yesterday, he defended his support for tax breaks for foreign auto companies, which he praised for offering cars that the public wants. "They know what they are doing running efficient plants," said Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, which held hearings on the bailout last week."

[BuddyP]

The workers wages alone are not what is killing GM... lack of productivity and the lazy workers, both created by the UAW, are the largest blow. I will note that many GM workers are NOT lazy, but can't be productive because it would make the lazy workers "look bad".

To have to wait 30 min. for a maintanance guy to pull a stuck part out of a press that the worker could've done in a few seconds is F'in rediculous... That alone is why the UAW needs to go.

[cletus8269]

i was watching msnbc this morning and the senator from Tennessee voted no because this would "just be throwing money at a problem instead of fixing it". i guess saturn feels that knife in the back huh?

[gm4life]

So in the end, the UAW puts the final nail in the coffin. It would be a fitting final chapter for GM who apparently will never be able to rid itself of the albatross. I suppose a dying animal will do anything to survive, including kill another. It is, however, the one consolation from this whole morass, which is the final demise of the UAW which will finally be gone no matter what the outcome of this attempt at legislation. Good riddance.

*** Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States. ***

Link to Article

CNN) -- Senate Democrats and the White House failed to find 60 votes to end debate on a $14 billion auto bailout bill and bring it to a vote Thursday night, killing the measure for the year.

The 52-35 vote followed the collapse of negotiations between Senate Democrats and Republicans seeking a compromise.

"We have worked and worked and we can spend all night tonight, tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday, and we're not going to get to the finish line," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said on the Senate floor before the vote. "That's just the way it is. There's too much difference between the two sides."

I agree.

Reid acknowledged the bill would not survive the procedural vote.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.

Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research. Watch the market ramifications of the bailout failure »

The House easily passed the bailout bill earlier this week, but it quickly ran into trouble in the Senate, where Republicans objected to several provisions. Negotiations Thursday involved a compromise proposal put forward by Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, but the senators could not reach agreement.

The collapse of negotiations could possibly doom General Motors to a bankruptcy and closure in the coming weeks, with Chrysler potentially following close behind.

While Ford Motor has more cash on hand to avoid an immediate crisis, its production could be disrupted by problems in the supplier base, as could the production of overseas automakers with U.S. plants such as Toyota Motor and Honda Motor. Watch how the automakers crisis has a ripple effect on Asia »

The struggling automakers may get some money anyway.

As part of their effort to urge skeptical Republicans to back the deal, Bush officials made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, according to the sources familiar with the conversations.

One of the sources said that a White House official made it clear to a GOP senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.

The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of private conversations.

Democrats pressed the White House from the start to help Detroit by using some of the $700 billion for the financial sector, but the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson refused.

"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now consider using the TARP money," Reid said after Thursday night's vote.

CNN's Dana Bash and Ted Barrett contributed to this report.

Agreed.

Edited December 12, 2008 by gm4life

[Camino LS6]

The blame for the decline and fall of :

The auto industry

The manufacturing segment

And, the nation itself

Belongs entirely to Shelby, Corker, and their ilk who can't see the logic of loaning 34 billion over paying out 170 Billion at minimum with no return at all.

That's the choice.

New beginnings, or the end of everything we have known in the past.

The new America will be a poorer, less important, and declining one - if we allow this to happen.

Even Bush has more brains than these complete assholes that are trying to ruin us: he has finally given in and has announced his willingness to use TARP funds to save the Big 3.

Those criminals in the Senate need to be exposed for what they are: traitors and shills for foreign industry.

[Blake Noble]

It's quite hard to decide on who I want to direct my frustration at. Do I put the blame on the UAW? Do I put the blame on Mr. McConnell and his band of miscreants in the Senate? Both do have their share of the fault to take.

And although Bush has stated he does not want to take away a chunk of the 700 billion in TARP funding to aid the Big 3, I think it's in his best interest if he does so.

If GM, Ford, and/or Chrysler go down, it would only fuel the downward spiral the economy has been following for what seems to be an age now. We're dangerously flirting with an economic depression here.

Maybe I should get out of the United States by next year and see if things are better in Europe.

Edited December 12, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Camino LS6]

The miscreants.

[haypops]

The automotive reporter for the Wall Street Journal said that the UAW was NOT given enough time by the Southern Senators to evaluate their latest attack proposal.

[Camino LS6]

The automotive reporter for the Wall Street Journal said that the UAW was NOT given enough time by the Southern Senators to evaluate their latest attack proposal.

You had it right the first time, those southern pirates smell blood - I just hope it turns out to be their own and not from the rest of us.

Hypocritical bastards!