Good cars with a bad rap...

[daves87rs]

Reading FOG's thread quiet praise for the Cavi and how well it did it's job, got me thinking: What are some good cars/trucks out there that most people may not think so highly of?

I could start with a few:

1.)The Cavalier, of course. These cars tend to do pretty well in almost everything... it's kinda sad it was so far behind most of the time.... Pretty much everyone I know (there were a few bad apples) were/are pretty happy with their Cav. I've noticed the engines will easliy outlast the body. I had to finally get rid of my 93 (the 3.1 was still running strong at almost 150k) beacuse it was rusty....

They tend to hold up well to abuse, and are pretty cheap to fix....

I'm pretty happy with the wife's 2003, it has been a solid little car. While I have my nitpicks ( a little rust under the door that I will have to fix in the spring, the driver's side visor cracked), it has cost me only about a grand (fuel pump) in the almost six years that we have owned it....not too bad...

2.) Ford Escort _easy to make fun of, but I can't tell you how many 91-96 and 97-01s that I still see on the roads today. My neighbor has a 98 with 160k miles, and besides the few parts that finally wore out, he has had very good luck with it-and he is not easy on it either.....Lately, I've seem more Escorts and the road than Taurus and the same time frame....

Guess these little cars hold on longer than they used to....

[siegen]

Escorts and Cavaliers of the 90's both deserve their bad raps, IMHO. But everyone will have a difference experience with the vehicles.

I can tell you that the 1.9L Escort engines are a huge pain in the you know what to work on. It's almost as if the engineers designed it to be difficult on purpose. Even easy tasks such as replacing spark plugs are needlessly difficult. Working on a '99 Integra and '97 Escort is a night and day difference, literally.

[Brougham-Holiday]

The Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera

Many people look at the Ciera as nothing more then another one of the Roger Smith era cookie cutter cars, which is true.

They were also the best selling Oldsmobile during some of Oldsmobile's best selling years (84,85,86) and kept the title up to the end. They are easy to work on, cheap to own, and offer luxury such as leather seats, and power everything on a mid sized 80's car. They are holding up well, remember the next time you see a Cutlass Ciera on the road that car is at least 12-13 years old.

[Sixty8panther]

S-10 Blazers. (1st gens.)

[daves87rs]

Escorts and Cavaliers of the 90's both deserve their bad raps, IMHO. But everyone will have a difference experience with the vehicles.

I can tell you that the 1.9L Escort engines are a huge pain in the you know what to work on. It's almost as if the engineers designed it to be difficult on purpose. Even easy tasks such as replacing spark plugs are needlessly difficult. Working on a '99 Integra and '97 Escort is a night and day difference, literally.

True, they are a pain to work on..

But at their price (used), you could just get another car....

[daves87rs]

Escorts and Cavaliers of the 90's both deserve their bad raps, IMHO. But everyone will have a difference experience with the vehicles.

I can tell you that the 1.9L Escort engines are a huge pain in the you know what to work on. It's almost as if the engineers designed it to be difficult on purpose. Even easy tasks such as replacing spark plugs are needlessly difficult. Working on a '99 Integra and '97 Escort is a night and day difference, literally.

90s?

As far as the Js, I would have to say more 80s than 90s....

[chevelle454]

Chevy Corsica and 90-94 Chevy Lumina. Both seem to run forever

[gmpartsgirl]

Chevy Corsica and 90-94 Chevy Lumina. Both seem to run forever

I would have to concur, great cars, bullet proof. The older gen 3.1's were great, the 3.4 X motor was great too, problem was only dealer techs can work on them so they are all mostly dead now.

[daves87rs]

Chevy Corsica and 90-94 Chevy Lumina. Both seem to run forever

I've seen a few of those Luminas lately...

[daves87rs]

I would have to concur, great cars, bullet proof. The older gen 3.1's were great, the 3.4 X motor was great too, problem was only dealer techs can work on them so they are all mostly dead now.

Yep, the 3.1 in my old Cavvie always ran well....

[Intrepidation]

The K-cars. Simple cheap, fairly reliable. These unloved cars saved the company.

I'll also throw in the Shadow/Sundance. They weren't beautiful, but they were extremely practicle, looked like regular sedans, handled well for their time, and are easy to work on.

[daves87rs]

The K-cars. Simple cheap, fairly reliable. These unloved cars saved the company.

I'll also throw in the Shadow/Sundance. They weren't beautiful, but they were extremely practicle, looked like regular sedans, handled well for their time, and are easy to work on.

Well, the K cars were ok...though I still see Shadows in good shape around here...

[cletus8269]

corvairs though thats a while back.

[MyerShift]

Agreed on the K's.

They made everything from entry level economy cars to Euro style sport sedans to "luxury" cars and even the minivan from it.

I love the K cars.

My sister is driving my great grandmother's (I miss her) 1989 Dodge Aries!!

[PurdueGuy]

I'll throw in a +1 for the Corsica (and Beretta, same car). I really enjoyed my V6 Corsica up until its auto trans died out of state, and instead of trying to get it towed or fixed, we junked it. It was in great shape for 180k miles, and having been rear-ended. Very good power, etc.

I'll also throw in my biased opinion on the S-Series. They were a great seller (well above 200k cars, some years pushing near 300k cars), reliable, easy to work on, good power (at least in the dohc models, not too bad on the mpfi sohc models), safe, durable polymer panels, great fuel economy. Sadly, people obsess over engine noise and panel gaps, and deem them piles. Heck, one article I read had the author claiming that the polymer panels would get brittle and the paint would fade with age. I have seen very few polymer panels look anything but brand new on the oldest S-Series, unless they have been in an accident. What does get to looking bad is the metal hoods, roofs, and trunk lids.

[toesuf94]

The Buick Rendezvous and the Pontiac Aztec

The styling (can that word be used with the words Pontiac Aztec on the same page?) is polarizing, and they were relatively unloved by the car buying public, BUT they are really practical crossovers that get great fuel economy and seem to be holding up well. There seems to be a secondary following starting up with college aged kids buying them around here (Aztec in particular) and they seem to enjoy the funkyness of the design. AWD and lots of room and a return of close to 20 MPG is not uncommon!

and a huge +1 on the Cutlass Cierra/Buick Century/Pontiac 6000 cars...they were never anything to look at in my book, but the damned things are still on the road in large numbers, are cheap as hell to run, and seem to be well loved by their owners...although rust is really starting to claim a lot of them around Iowa any more. Just saw a rather nice maroon International Series on the road the other day in fact!

Edited December 12, 2008 by toesuf94

[regfootball]

The Buick Rendezvous and the Pontiac Aztec

The styling (can that word be used with the words Pontiac Aztec on the same page?) is polarizing, and they were relatively unloved by the car buying public, BUT they are really practical crossovers that get great fuel economy and seem to be holding up well. There seems to be a secondary following starting up with college aged kids buying them around here (Aztec in particular) and they seem to enjoy the funkyness of the design. AWD and lots of room and a return of close to 20 MPG is not uncommon!

and a huge +1 on the Cutlass Cierra/Buick Century/Pontiac 6000 cars...they were never anything to look at in my book, but the damned things are still on the road in large numbers, are cheap as hell to run, and seem to be well loved by their owners...although rust is really starting to claim a lot of them around Iowa any more. Just saw a rather nice maroon International Series on the road the other day in fact!

the aztek just crossed 98k. to date still just tires and brakes and two front wheel bearings replaced under warranty. call it ugly if you will but i've got near 100,000 miles out of it and no actual out of pocket repairs aside from minimal maintenance. i want to get a new car but honestly i am wondering if i can just do another 50k no problem in it. i paid 16 grand for it new, and could probably get 6 on the private market for it right now. it gets 20+ mpg. between lost value (not including interest) and maintenance costs, it's maybe only cost me like 12-13 cents a mile to run in 4 1/2 trouble free years.

call it ugly, but she knows how to ride me.

[toesuf94]

the aztek just crossed 98k. to date still just tires and brakes and two front wheel bearings replaced under warranty. call it ugly if you will but i've got near 100,000 miles out of it and no actual out of pocket repairs aside from minimal maintenance. i want to get a new car but honestly i am wondering if i can just do another 50k no problem in it. i paid 16 grand for it new, and could probably get 6 on the private market for it right now. it gets 20+ mpg. between lost value (not including interest) and maintenance costs, it's maybe only cost me like 12-13 cents a mile to run in 4 1/2 trouble free years.

call it ugly, but she knows how to ride me.

See? Told ya!

And I don't call anyone's ride (unless it has a big T on it) ugly. I even like the bright green on the Aztec...kinda funky!

[daves87rs]

I'll throw in a +1 for the Corsica (and Beretta, same car). I really enjoyed my V6 Corsica up until its auto trans died out of state, and instead of trying to get it towed or fixed, we junked it. It was in great shape for 180k miles, and having been rear-ended. Very good power, etc.

I'll also throw in my biased opinion on the S-Series. They were a great seller (well above 200k cars, some years pushing near 300k cars), reliable, easy to work on, good power (at least in the dohc models, not too bad on the mpfi sohc models), safe, durable polymer panels, great fuel economy. Sadly, people obsess over engine noise and panel gaps, and deem them piles. Heck, one article I read had the author claiming that the polymer panels would get brittle and the paint would fade with age. I have seen very few polymer panels look anything but brand new on the oldest S-Series, unless they have been in an accident. What does get to looking bad is the metal hoods, roofs, and trunk lids.

Gotta agree with the S-series...great running car....

My buddy's 02 Sl1 with nearly 100k on it is still going strong....only extra repair on it was the front bearings twice....

[daves87rs]

The Buick Rendezvous and the Pontiac Aztec

The styling (can that word be used with the words Pontiac Aztec on the same page?) is polarizing, and they were relatively unloved by the car buying public, BUT they are really practical crossovers that get great fuel economy and seem to be holding up well. There seems to be a secondary following starting up with college aged kids buying them around here (Aztec in particular) and they seem to enjoy the funkyness of the design. AWD and lots of room and a return of close to 20 MPG is not uncommon!

and a huge +1 on the Cutlass Cierra/Buick Century/Pontiac 6000 cars...they were never anything to look at in my book, but the damned things are still on the road in large numbers, are cheap as hell to run, and seem to be well loved by their owners...although rust is really starting to claim a lot of them around Iowa any more. Just saw a rather nice maroon International Series on the road the other day in fact!

I've noticed more Aztecs around here...and at colleges too..interesting....

[trinacriabob]

I don't know about the "bad rap" part as much as the "ew, why do you drive that?" Especially out West. We can thank all those coastal Gen-Y-ers and (certain groups of) immigrants for not buying domestic cars and f@#king up our domestic auto industry.

Let me explain.

First, the immigrants. Go outside any low-budget chain hotel (Travelodge, Econolodge, Days Inn) owned by East Indians and see what is sitting in the owner's parking spot. It is almost always a Camry, a Corolla or an Accord.

Now, the Gen-Y-ers. Today, I'm sitting at work and someone comes by to talk about the bailout. There is a goofy guy (I mean that in a nice way) I work with that went to one of the UC schools and you can read this guy like a "checklist." I told the other guy talking to me "Yeah, it's these way-cool Gen-Y types like (insert name of goofy guy) who live in the Bohemian part of town that wouldn't be caught dead in a domestic car." Goofy guy walks by.

Me: What do you drive?

Goofy guy: Why?

Me: I just want to know.

Goofy guy: An Integra

Me: Thought so.

Goofy guy: What do you drive?

Me: A LaCrosse

Goofy guy: What's that?

Me (motion for him to look at my computer monitor as I pull up buick.com): That's a LaCrosse.

Goofy guy: Oh, that's pretty nice...kind of looks like a Jaguar.

Therein lies the problem. It's a perception issue. And I wouldn't be caught dead in a foreign car.

Edited December 13, 2008 by trinacriabob

[Croc]

Any W-body designed prior to 2000. Those are some great, underrated cars. The 2000 Impala marks the point when the W went from stylish, affordable, and easy to completely mediocre and banal.

+1 for the Aztek and Rendezvous. Great cars, especially the Rendezvous.

I'm going to nominate the Aurora, particularly the 2nd Gen, despite Brougham-Holiday's troubles with him; mine's been relatively problem free.

Cadillac Deville/DTS doesn't get enough love.

Anything by SAAB

HUMMER H2 is the most unloved vehicle ever.

Chevrolet Suburban.

Pontiac Fiero

Mercury Milan

Mercury Mariner

Mercury Mountaineer (it's tough being the red-headed stepchild)

Ford Explorer

Chrysler Sebring (coupe only, not current design)

Dodge Avenger/Stratus (again, Mitsu-sourced coupe model)

Cutlass Supreme convertible

Buick Reatta

Buick Riviera

Buick Park Avenue (1997-2004)

[vonVeezelsnider]

+1 for the Aztek and Rendezvous. Great cars, especially the Rendezvous.

Cadillac Deville/DTS doesn't get enough love.

Buick Riviera

Buick Park Avenue (1997-2004)

[gmpartsgirl]

The Buick Rendezvous and the Pontiac Aztec

The styling (can that word be used with the words Pontiac Aztec on the same page?) is polarizing, and they were relatively unloved by the car buying public, BUT they are really practical crossovers that get great fuel economy and seem to be holding up well. There seems to be a secondary following starting up with college aged kids buying them around here (Aztec in particular) and they seem to enjoy the funkyness of the design. AWD and lots of room and a return of close to 20 MPG is not uncommon!

and a huge +1 on the Cutlass Cierra/Buick Century/Pontiac 6000 cars...they were never anything to look at in my book, but the damned things are still on the road in large numbers, are cheap as hell to run, and seem to be well loved by their owners...although rust is really starting to claim a lot of them around Iowa any more. Just saw a rather nice maroon International Series on the road the other day in fact!

Speaking of the 6000, funny story. One time a guy called in looking for parts for his Pontiac (pronounced it as) Gooley. It was a 6000 LE!! LMAO!!!

[Croc]

What a tard. Did what was your response?

[fightingbee]

I'll throw in a +1 for the Corsica (and Beretta, same car)...I'll also throw in my biased opinion on the S-Series.

+1

The 'S' was a great car, arguably the best Saturn even counting the new ones. I'd probably still have one of some sort if I had more room in one.

My 2nd car Achieva, really a Corsica/Beretta rehash mechanically has also been a real good vehicle in its past year w/ me. Back in IA it also seemed like you would never see a Beretta/Corsica with rust on them until mabye just the past couple of years, somthing that could not be said about many other '87-'96 vintage everyday drivers.

[trinacriabob]

and a huge +1 on the Cutlass Cierra/Buick Century/Pontiac 6000 cars...they were never anything to look at in my book, but the damned things are still on the road in large numbers, are cheap as hell to run, and seem to be well loved by their owners...

Right, basic transportation that doesn't "shout," does its job well and lasts a long time. Of this series, I was more fond of the Pontiac 6000. Slightly nicer exterior styling and nicer dashboard set-up.

[CARBIZ]

I was working at a Pontiac-Buick-Cadillac dealer in the early '80s, and I can say that the 6000 created quite a stir. The SSE created quite a stir: it had suede seats, a cool techno dash and actually was pretty peppy - for its time.

The key thing to remember when looking backward is to judge a vehicle in the year(s) it was released. As I've said before, we can laugh at the K-Car today, but in '81 it was pretty revolutionary. The same can be said of the 6000: it was a much better incarnation of the Chev/Buick/Olds offerings, IMO.

[gmpartsgirl]

What a tard. Did what was your response?

Well, I kind of looked around in awe at my coworkers, and sat in silence for a moment cause I didn't know WHAT THE HELL he was talking about. OMG!! Then it hit me and I corrected him, rude maybe but I wasn't gonna let that go. I've accepted that 90% of the people who call for parts for the Lumina or Lumina APV call it a Chevy Aluminum, mostly old people, and the 90% of people, again mostly old, who want parts for their Chevy VenturA van. But the Gooley took the cake fo sho. HEHE

[daves87rs]

Well, I kind of looked around in awe at my coworkers, and sat in silence for a moment cause I didn't know WHAT THE HELL he was talking about. OMG!! Then it hit me and I corrected him, rude maybe but I wasn't gonna let that go. I've accepted that 90% of the people who call for parts for the Lumina or Lumina APV call it a Chevy Aluminum, mostly old people, and the 90% of people, again mostly old, who want parts for their Chevy VenturA van. But the Gooley took the cake fo sho. HEHE

Interesting....

[A Horse With No Name]

The K-cars. Simple cheap, fairly reliable. These unloved cars saved the company.

I'll also throw in the Shadow/Sundance. They weren't beautiful, but they were extremely practicle, looked like regular sedans, handled well for their time, and are easy to work on.

The original OMNI wasn't a bad car for its era...I owned one, once...and would still like a GLH.

While were talking about FWD Mopars, I'd like one of the Shelby FWD cars, pref. a two door, in silver thank you. Those were neat little cars.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I was working at a Pontiac-Buick-Cadillac dealer in the early '80s, and I can say that the 6000 created quite a stir. The SSE created quite a stir: it had suede seats, a cool techno dash and actually was pretty peppy - for its time.

The key thing to remember when looking backward is to judge a vehicle in the year(s) it was released. As I've said before, we can laugh at the K-Car today, but in '81 it was pretty revolutionary. The same can be said of the 6000: it was a much better incarnation of the Chev/Buick/Olds offerings, IMO.

Actually, I like the Celebrity Eurosport the best of that era GM cars...they were a cleaner, simpler design that just seemd to flow and be right for the era.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Oh, and +1 for the Buick Park Avenue and the Reatta.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I don't know about the "bad rap" part as much as the "ew, why do you drive that?" Especially out West. We can thank all those coastal Gen-Y-ers and (certain groups of) immigrants for not buying domestic cars and f@#king up our domestic auto industry.

Let me explain.

First, the immigrants. Go outside any low-budget chain hotel (Travelodge, Econolodge, Days Inn) owned by East Indians and see what is sitting in the owner's parking spot. It is almost always a Camry, a Corolla or an Accord.

Now, the Gen-Y-ers. Today, I'm sitting at work and someone comes by to talk about the bailout. There is a goofy guy (I mean that in a nice way) I work with that went to one of the UC schools and you can read this guy like a "checklist." I told the other guy talking to me "Yeah, it's these way-cool Gen-Y types like (insert name of goofy guy) who live in the Bohemian part of town that wouldn't be caught dead in a domestic car." Goofy guy walks by.

Me: What do you drive?

Goofy guy: Why?

Me: I just want to know.

Goofy guy: An Integra

Me: Thought so.

Goofy guy: What do you drive?

Me: A LaCrosse

Goofy guy: What's that?

Me (motion for him to look at my computer monitor as I pull up buick.com): That's a LaCrosse.

Goofy guy: Oh, that's pretty nice...kind of looks like a Jaguar.

Therein lies the problem. It's a perception issue. And I wouldn't be caught dead in a foreign car.

This is one of the biggest marketing problems for the domestics. Certain demographic groups just won't be caught dead in a domestic...

From what I've seen...Hispanics tend to buy Asian cars, young and upwardly mobile gen Y types like you said, people on the coasts, elderly people who got fet up with Detroit in the 70's and 80's...

Who am I missing?

Chris

[capriceman]

W-Body

[fightingbee]

IMHO, the FWD X-cars were much better than their rap as well. My folks '81 Skylark and a neighbors '80-'81-ish Citation were both reliable transport for probably ~10 yrs. and both still ran strong (good old Pontiac 2.5's) and looked pretty decent when traded off.

[!!!TED!!!]

+1

The 'S' was a great car, arguably the best Saturn even counting the new ones. I'd probably still have one of some sort if I had more room in one.

My 2nd car Achieva, really a Corsica/Beretta rehash mechanically has also been a real good vehicle in its past year w/ me. Back in IA it also seemed like you would never see a Beretta/Corsica with rust on them until mabye just the past couple of years, somthing that could not be said about many other '87-'96 vintage everyday drivers.

Since we are doing math....

+1 for Achieva (and Grand Am/Skylark!) I looove my car!

If maintenance has been kept up, and it has a 3.1, they can run forever.

Lots of mid nineties Grand Ams in my area!

[fightingbee]

My Achieva even has the Quad 4 and still runs great, but it is a low mileage example (74K) and I proactively replaced a bunch of stuff upon puchasing it.

Edited December 14, 2008 by fightingbee

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually the Quad 4 was a brilliant motor, just needed a wee bit more development.

Chris

[vonVeezelsnider]

W-Body

I would say so...

And it's kinda funny with everybody saying they like the 6000 more than the other A-Bodies... I was the other way- My favorite was always the Cutlass Ciera.

[A Horse With No Name]

I liked the little two door old Calais...esp. W a quad 4.

Chris