U.S. Getting the Buick Regal

[smk4565]

there is a price point around which you cannot sell cars in volume. who the hell has 40k to pay for a car in the post HELOC paradigm? the question is still a buick, even if it were a rebadged S class, is not selling at 40 grand any time soon. think people, buick has to be around the acura level. we are not talking Audi A5 interior here. Even with buick going niche, they still need volume to sell it. not 500 cars a month like the BMW 5 series.

5-series sold 2900 last month, that is a bad month, they are usually in the 3-4k range. (plus global sales which helps economies of scale)

I think $40k is as high as a front driver can go from any brand (I know what a S80 and DTS cost, those aren't exactly sales winners). The sweet spot for Buick is in the $28-35k range I believe, with a loaded up sedan going to $40k like the ES350 and MKS. People will pay $30-35k for a car because they have been paying that much for SUVs for years. SUV sales are dropping, families are downsizing, gas will go back up eventually and people will want a vehicle that is a step up from the CamCords of the world, but won't want an SUV. This is the demographic Buick needs to get after, small to midsize premium will emerge here as it has in Europe, Buick better be ready.

[Croc]

I agree with you if Caddy wants revenue they need to have a sub CTS. I wanted to understand what Croc thinks about the platform in his plan. I wanted to understand whether he thought it would be a viable alternative to keep a sub-CTS vehicle in Caddy lineup if so the reasons behind it.

Absolutely. If Alpha becomes a reality, I'd love to see both Pontiac and Cadillac vehicles on it. I'd price this entry-level Cadillac at 35k+, in current dollars, and that would be the base price. Most would sell equipped in the 40-45k range.

As OC has said in many posts, most CTSs are equipped and priced around the 42-45k mark. IMO this should be the new base price for a CTS, 42.5k with current equipment levels and in 2008 dollars. The sub-40 models aren't nice enough IMO to wear the wreath and crest.

"Oh, but he said Cadillac shouldn't be under 40k a few posts back! omg omg wtf liar..." Yea, with the current lineup. Add in a hypothetical vehicle that's smaller and ACTUALLY competes with a 3-series, then we have something else to talk about. I still maintain that every Cadillac should come standard with certain levels of amenities, so this hypothetical Alpha platform car should adhere to that, and with current levels of equipment and corresponding prices across the industry, I'd say 35k is a good base price, maybe 32.5k as an absolute stripper model.

Again, Cadillac built its mythology on being the Standard of the World, of being the best, to such an extent that calling something a "Cadillac" meant it was the top of the line. As a result, I feel there should be a certain threshold to own one new. An "admission price" if you will. Cadillac is NOT a volume brand. It is well documented that their troubles arose in the late 1970s and early 1980s when they started chasing volume. It cheapened what a Cadillac is.

And please note, that as much of an enthusiast as I am, I would rather Cadillac be successful, prestigious, and coveted than to be something I could ever afford to drive in the next decade. Cadillacs used to be the car one bought when one had "arrived," and Buick was more the mass-luxury, premium brand.

[Croc]

CTS pricing is fine as is. we don't need to push up the prices for price sake alone. perhaps you buy a CTS because it is awesome AND A good value.

Slightly disagree. I think the CTS should base no lower than 40, preferably around 42.5...but all lesser-equipped trims than that should be dropped. In other words, same equipment per price, but knock out the lower models that don't do anything but cheapen the brand and its image.

What does it say when your pretentious, upwardly-mobile acquaintance drives up in a brand new CTS, you get inside a Cadillac for the first time, and see how poorly-equipped it is? It certainly doesn't make you think "man, I REALLY want one of these."

[Croc]

there is a price point around which you cannot sell cars in volume. who the hell has 40k to pay for a car in the post HELOC paradigm? the question is still a buick, even if it were a rebadged S class, is not selling at 40 grand any time soon. think people, buick has to be around the acura level. we are not talking Audi A5 interior here. Even with buick going niche, they still need volume to sell it. not 500 cars a month like the BMW 5 series.

And I'm asking, "Why the hell not?"

Why couldn't Buick sell a rebadged S-class at $40k? A 1986 Skylark Limited sold for today's equivalent of just a hair under 20k BASE. A 1988 T-type Electra based at today's equivalent of 30k. A 1988 Reatta would cost almost 45k in today's dollars.

And with features/content going up every year, there's no doubt Buick could push past 40k on some models.

[smk4565]

CTS pricing is fine as is. we don't need to push up the prices for price sake alone. perhaps you buy a CTS because it is awesome AND A good value.

A base E350 is $54,075, Cadillac needs to step it up. Modestly equipped the E-class is over $60,000.

[Z-06]

A base E350 is $54,075, Cadillac needs to step it up. Modestly equipped the E-class is over $60,000.

Base A6 3.2 is $42,950, base Infiniti M35 is $45,900 and they offer similar level of luxury and features. What is your point with that statement? Always shoot for the top?

Don't tell me now that they are not competing in the same class as the E.

[smk4565]

The E-class is more successful than the A6 and M35, especially globally. Cadillac should aim high, the wreath and crest used to mean something, it's time for an American car brand to be top tier and restore credibility to American cars. Europe has all the exotics and ultra luxury cars, so people think anything European is good, and American cars get the perception of rental cars or junk. Personally, I'd put the CTS at $47k base and add a sedan above that.

[Robert Hall]

The E-class is more successful than the A6 and M35, especially globally. Cadillac should aim high, the wreath and crest used to mean something, it's time for an American car brand to be top tier and restore credibility to American cars. Europe has all the exotics and ultra luxury cars, so people think anything European is good, and American cars get the perception of rental cars or junk. Personally, I'd put the CTS at $47k base and add a sedan above that.

Well, the STS was supposed to compete w/ the 5 series, E class, A6, etc but that plan didn't work out...the current STS was underdeveloped and too close to the CTS in size..

[Z-06]

The E-class is more successful than the A6 and M35, especially globally. Cadillac should aim high, the wreath and crest used to mean something, it's time for an American car brand to be top tier and restore credibility to American cars. Europe has all the exotics and ultra luxury cars, so people think anything European is good, and American cars get the perception of rental cars or junk. Personally, I'd put the CTS at $47k base and add a sedan above that.

I guess you forgot that E-class is Taxi of Germany, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.

[Robert Hall]

I guess you forgot that E-class is Taxi of Germany, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.

Yes, Mercedes diesels are legendary for their reliability and longevity. If I were going to buy a new daily driver in the $50k range and drive it for 20 years, the E320 Blu Tec would be my choice.

Edited December 19, 2008 by moltar

[smk4565]

Well, the STS was supposed to compete w/ the 5 series, E class, A6, etc but that plan didn't work out...the current STS was underdeveloped and too close to the CTS in size..

STS was a failure, they didn't put enough effort in, and it is too big. GM mismanaged Cadillac's product portfolio and almost has to start over. They better get Buick right the first time, and not do Avalon size for Camry price. Buick could be in the situation Olds was in the late 90s, where it is just too little, too late, so they better hit home runs on every product.

[Croc]

Well, the STS was supposed to compete w/ the 5 series, E class, A6, etc but that plan didn't work out...the current STS was underdeveloped and too close to the CTS in size..

The STS never competed with the 5-series. Only a GM exec would tell you that. In features offered, interior width, quality of materials, and style, it competed with a 5-series maybe from 1995.

The CTS always has competed with the 5er. Just priced like a firesale at the dollar store.

[Robert Hall]

The STS never competed with the 5-series. Only a GM exec would tell you that. In features offered, interior width, quality of materials, and style, it competed with a 5-series maybe from 1995.

I'm talking about the RWD model in the recent years, not the FWD Sevilles. The RWD STS's price range, size range, V6/V8 availability, etc put it in 5-series, GS, M35/45, E-class territory. The execution was less than great.

The CTS always has competed with the 5er. Just priced like a firesale at the dollar store.

The CTS doesn't compete w/ the 5-series...it's in a wierd size spot between the 3 and 5... the CTS doesn't offer a regular V8 version and priced way below the 5, priced in the 3-series range. Though it's larger than the 3 and the C-class, IS, and G35, that's clearly its market segment.

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS doesn't compete w/ the 5-series...it's in a wierd size spot between the 3 and 5... the CTS doesn't offer a regular V8 version and priced way below the 5, priced in the 3-series range. Though it's larger than the 3 and the C-class, IS, and G35, that's clearly its market segment.

What is weird about the CTS's size? You don't get much closer than this. In no dimension is the CTS more than 1/2 inch different from the 5er. The CTS's V8 option is $2,500 less than the 5ers. There may be some debate on performance between an M5 and a CTS-V but the 550i would be left staring at fast receding vertical tail lamps. Don't fault Cadillac for covering both the 550i and the M5 with one engine instead of two.

Length

CTS 191.6

5er 191.1

E-class 192.3

Wheelbase

CTS 113.4

5er 113.7

E-class 112.4

Width

CTS 72.50

5er 72.70

E-class 71.70

[Robert Hall]

What is weird about the CTS's size? You don't get much closer than this. In no dimension is the CTS more than 1/2 inch different from the 5er. The CTS's V8 option is $2,500 less than the 5ers. There may be some debate on performance between an M5 and a CTS-V but the 550i would be left staring at fast receding vertical tail lamps. Don't fault Cadillac for covering both the 550i and the M5 with one engine instead of two.

Yes, the CTS is close to the 5-series in size (but not features). As the entry model, it's been compared over and over and over and over and over and over with the 3, C-class, etc. Cadillac needs a compact model to compete directly with the 3, etc. But I doubt if Alpha will ever happen given GM's current situation..

Can't compare the CTS-v with the 550, since the CTS-v has the specialized body trim, limited interior color choices, etc. The 550 is a regular 5-series with a V8, not a specialized M model.

The big problem is they made the CTS and STS too close in size..for it's price point, the CTS probably should have been about 10 inches shorter and more compact.

Edited December 19, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Yes, the CTS is close to the 5-series in size (but not features). As the entry model, it's been compared over and over and over with the 3, C-class, etc. Cadillac needs a compact model to directly with the 3, etc. But I doubt if Alpha will ever happen given GM's current situation..

What features is the CTS missing? I mean, if adding a rear power sunshade would suddenly get people to trade in their bimmers, I'm sure Cadillac would offer it.

[SAmadei]

The big problem is they made the CTS and STS too close in size..for it's price point, the CTS probably should have been about 10 inches shorter and more compact.

Perhaps the CTS should have been a little shorter, but not much. I do agree the STS should have been longer. It's mission should have been to phase out the DTS from the get go... if Caddy wanted to continue producing a DTS-sized car, the STS should have been stretched... like the Chinese SLS. I feel the idea that a larger DTS is slightly cheaper than the STS confuses customers.

And the resale value on the DTS is horrible. I've seen 1-2 year old DTSes selling for 18K... that's a powerful argument against buying any large Caddy.

IMHO, the biggest problem is that the STS-V has less power than the touted upcoming CTS-V and the informed public knew this... and soon the STS overall seems obsolete. Again, this is GM shooting itself in the foot because they got a big mouth and can't get a product to market in time to be relevant. In this case, it potentially could have sold cars (either STSes or CTSes that could have been pushed to market faster) before the credit crunch.

[pow]

Yes, the CTS is close to the 5-series in size (but not features). As the entry model, it's been compared over and over and over and over and over and over with the 3, C-class, etc. Cadillac needs a compact model to compete directly with the 3, etc. But I doubt if Alpha will ever happen given GM's current situation..

Can't compare the CTS-v with the 550, since the CTS-v has the specialized body trim, limited interior color choices, etc. The 550 is a regular 5-series with a V8, not a specialized M model.

The big problem is they made the CTS and STS too close in size..for it's price point, the CTS probably should have been about 10 inches shorter and more compact.

Agreed. I would still categorize the CTS as entry-level luxury, which itself is a diverse segment made up of everything from focused sports sedans like the 3-series and G37 to larger, luxury-oriented sedans like the ES and MKS. The CTS, TL, and a few others seem to fit right in the middle of this luxury-sport equation.

The CTS is moving upmarket, though, inching towards middle-lux. Several European magazines have called it a 4-series competitor, if there were such a thing, and average transaction prices are higher than before. If the next CTS grows a bit in interior width, available cylinder count, and MSRP, and an Alpha Caddy comes along, it should easily be a mid-lux player.

The level of sophistication in the CTS-V is definitely moving in the right direction. It has the 14-way seats that show up in smk's wet dreams, so it easily competes against the M5. And at $70K+, the variance in pricing doesn't matter to the super rich buyer.

[pow]

The only concern with pushing the CTS upmarket is that the mid-lux market is essentially dead, in a sort of limbo state where aspiring managers stick with Baby Lexus leases and the big guns go for the LS, leaving the GS unloved.

But then of course there's lots of brand equity from the CTS name...

[Croc]

I'm talking about the RWD model in the recent years, not the FWD Sevilles.

As was I. FWD Seville competed with...uh...the Deville? I truly don't know.

[Robert Hall]

As was I. FWD Seville competed with...uh...the Deville? I truly don't know.

You mentioned 1995, which was FWD.

[Drew Dowdell]

Agreed. I would still categorize the CTS as entry-level luxury, which itself is a diverse segment made up of everything from focused sports sedans like the 3-series and G37 to larger, luxury-oriented sedans like the ES and MKS. The CTS, TL, and a few others seem to fit right in the middle of this luxury-sport equation.

The CTS is moving upmarket, though, inching towards middle-lux. Several European magazines have called it a 4-series competitor, if there were such a thing, and average transaction prices are higher than before. If the next CTS grows a bit in interior width, available cylinder count, and MSRP, and an Alpha Caddy comes along, it should easily be a mid-lux player.

The level of sophistication in the CTS-V is definitely moving in the right direction. It has the 14-way seats that show up in smk's wet dreams, so it easily competes against the M5. And at $70K+, the variance in pricing doesn't matter to the super rich buyer.

I don't understand you people! The CTS is nearly identical in size to the 5-series yet it needs to grow in order to compete with it? It comes with 2-flavors of V6 and 1 flavor of V8, yet it needs more cylinders?

Just further proof that GM could build a fully working model of Christ himself and you'd STILL complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot!

[Robert Hall]

I don't understand you people! The CTS is nearly identical in size to the 5-series yet it needs to grow in order to compete with it? It comes with 2-flavors of V6 and 1 flavor of V8, yet it needs more cylinders?

Just further proof that GM could build a fully working model of Christ himself and you'd STILL complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot!

You miss the point...the CTS is an excellent car, it's 5 series sized, but it's the entry level model. Thus, it is compared with the 3-series, G35, C-class, etc that are in it's price range. If Cadillac had a compact RWD entry level model, then the CTS could be a 5-series competitor. I'd love to see Cadillac have a compact RWD entry lux model, a mid-level model (CTS-sized), and a full-size model to compete with the S-class, 7-series, LS... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There is a standard range categorization of compact, midsize, and fullsize the other luxury makers generally stick to, but Cadillac doesn't.

[smk4565]

And the resale value on the DTS is horrible. I've seen 1-2 year old DTSes selling for 18K... that's a powerful argument against buying any large Caddy.

IMHO, the biggest problem is that the STS-V has less power than the touted upcoming CTS-V and the informed public knew this... and soon the STS overall seems obsolete. Again, this is GM shooting itself in the foot because they got a big mouth and can't get a product to market in time to be relevant. In this case, it potentially could have sold cars (either STSes or CTSes that could have been pushed to market faster) before the credit crunch.

VanDevere Buick-Pontiac-Hyundia/Kia in Akron, OH has a 2008 DTS that looks pretty well equipped for $21,995. They also have a 2007 Accord with cloth is $20,995 (both are gray with about 28-29k miles). A 1 year old Cadillac should not cost $1000 more than a 2 year old Honda, but that is the sad reality of Cadillac resale value.

STS is basically obsolete, it should be killed off and the exclusive features (blind spot, lane departure warning, etc) it has should be put on the CTS and the CTS should go up in price to make room for the Alpha car. The features that the 5-series and E-class have should also be on the CTS and material quality (leather, carpet, etc) should match up. Put the CTS directly against the 5-series in price.

Bring on Alpha, make it outstanding, sell 80-100,000 of them a year here and then send it global.

[Robert Hall]

VanDevere Buick-Pontiac-Hyundia/Kia in Akron, OH has a 2008 DTS that looks pretty well equipped for $21,995. They also have a 2007 Accord with cloth is $20,995 (both are gray with about 28-29k miles). A 1 year old Cadillac should not cost $1000 more than a 2 year old Honda, but that is the sad reality of Cadillac resale value.

Wow...Akron..haven't thought of that place in a while...lived in the area 6 years..pretty depressing place in the winter. Yes, the resale value of the DTS is awful..but it's primarily an F&F model (fleet & fogey) and isn't really competitive as a full size luxury sedan.

Bring on Alpha, make it outstanding, sell 80-100,000 of them a year here and then send it global.

I hope GM can deliver with Alpha...I'm just afraid it's going to get cancelled or watered down in the current horror situation GM is in...

[smk4565]

You miss the point...the CTS is an excellent car, it's 5 series sized, but it's the entry level model. Thus, it is compared with the 3-series, G35, C-class, etc that are in it's price range. If Cadillac had a compact RWD entry level model, then the CTS could be a 5-series competitor. I'd love to see Cadillac have a compact RWD entry lux model, a mid-level model (CTS-sized), and a full-size model to compete with the S-class, 7-series, LS... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There is a standard range categorization of compact, midsize, and fullsize the other luxury makers generally stick to, but Cadillac doesn't.

Fully agree. The people that plan on spending $55-60,000 on a midsize sedan are looking at M-B and BMW and aren't even stopping at the Cadillac dealership to give the CTS a chance.

[Drew Dowdell]

You miss the point...the CTS is an excellent car, it's 5 series sized, but it's the entry level model. Thus, it is compared with the 3-series, G35, C-class, etc that are in it's price range. If Cadillac had a compact RWD entry level model, then the CTS could be a 5-series competitor. I'd love to see Cadillac have a compact RWD entry lux model, a mid-level model (CTS-sized), and a full-size model to compete with the S-class, 7-series, LS... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There is a standard range categorization of compact, midsize, and fullsize the other luxury makers generally stick to, but Cadillac doesn't.

And you've yet to answer me. What is the CTS missing besides the BMW rondel?

[Z-06]

It comes with 2-flavors of V6 and 1 flavor of V8, yet it needs more cylinders?

Just further proof that GM could build a fully working model of Christ himself and you'd STILL complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot!

I think what he meant was a bread and butter V8 like the 550i or E550 which CTS lacks. I think part of the reason why GM is shying from putting bread and butter V8 in the CTS is because of it would directly compete with STS V8.

[Robert Hall]

I think what he meant was a bread and butter V8 like the 550i or E550 which CTS lacks. I think part of the reason why GM is shying from putting bread and butter V8 in the CTS is because of it would directly compete with STS V8.

Yes, that's what I meant. the V8 is only in the CTS-v with the sporty bodywork and limited interior color schemes. It would be nice to see a V8 (maybe 350 hp) in the regular CTS.

[Robert Hall]

And you've yet to answer me. What is the CTS missing besides the BMW rondel?

I'm sure there are options available on the 5-series that aren't available on the CTS..some one pointed out some features here months ago. It's an old argument that's been beat to death for years. The bottom line, the CTS may be 5 series sized, but it's the entry level model. Thus, it is naturally compared with the 3-series, G35, C-class, etc that are in it's price range. If Cadillac had a compact RWD entry level model, then the CTS could be a 5-series competitor. That's the reality.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think what he meant was a bread and butter V8 like the 550i or E550 which CTS lacks. I think part of the reason why GM is shying from putting bread and butter V8 in the CTS is because of it would directly compete with STS V8.

I know what he meant. But why are people complaining that Cadillac skips the bread and butter V8 and just throws the hot V8 in there instead?

Again, CTS-V is $2,500 less than a 550i..... and you're complaining?!

[Robert Hall]

I know what he meant. But why are people complaining that Cadillac skips the bread and butter V8 and just throws the hot V8 in there instead?

Again, CTS-V is $2,500 less than a 550i..... and you're complaining?!

No, it's a bargain. But the 550i is not the CTS-v's competition. The M3, S4, C63 AMG are. Apples to oranges.

Anyway, back to the original thread about Buicks.

So in 3-4 years, Buick will have a 3 model line---Regal, LaCrosse, Enclave?

Edited December 19, 2008 by moltar

[Z-06]

I know what he meant. But why are people complaining that Cadillac skips the bread and butter V8 and just throws the hot V8 in there instead?

Again, CTS-V is $2,500 less than a 550i..... and you're complaining?!

While I understand where you are coming from, Moltar is right too. Not everyone needs HO V8 despite of he/she "needing" a V8. Moltar gives you perspective of the customers who would be inclined to look at CTS for being E, 5, A6 competitor.

[Z-06]

So in 3-4 years, Buick will have a 3 model line---Regal, LaCrosse, Enclave?

Aren't they adding a DeltaII too?

[Robert Hall]

Aren't they adding a Delta II too?

Could be...I don't think anything has been announced like that for NA. Though I would assume China will have one.

[smk4565]

And you've yet to answer me. What is the CTS missing besides the BMW rondel?

This is what the CTS needs as options (it isn't all BMW stuff, some is STS or Merc stuff)

4 years free maintenance

upgraded leather, leather on dash, not leatherette, brushed aluminum trim, not plastic wanting to look like metal

upgraded carpet and floor mats

7.1 surround with at least 14 speakers, 400 watt (a Genesis has 17 speakers and 520 watts)

14+ way power seats

heated steering wheel

tool kit and rechargeable flashlight

Blind spot monitor and lane departure warning

LASAR adaptive cruise control

power rear sun shade, manual side sun shades

heated rear seats

push button start

headlamp washers

electric close trunk (e-class you can shut the trunk from the driver's seat)

voice command

head up display

night vision

auto high beam headlights that switch off when oncoming car approaches

cashmere headliner

magnetic ride control

On a side note, an 09 STS V8 premium luxury performance package is $68,165. No one in their right mind would pay that, the STS isn't that good and 07 STS V8s are like $25,000. If they revamp the CTS they can make a legit $47-67,000 car.

[smk4565]

here is a picture of a Buick to get back on topic

[Drew Dowdell]

Are you freaking kidding me?

When you drive your Aurora, it has a TOOL kit too.

I think I'm done with this site for a while, this stupidity is getting too much.

[pow]

I'm sure there are options available on the 5-series that aren't available on the CTS..some one pointed out some features here months ago. It's an old argument that's been beat to death for years. The bottom line, the CTS may be 5 series sized, but it's the entry level model. Thus, it is naturally compared with the 3-series, G35, C-class, etc that are in it's price range. If Cadillac had a compact RWD entry level model, then the CTS could be a 5-series competitor. That's the reality.

Exactly. It's priced like an entry luxury car, and Cadillac themselves say it's a 3-series, A4, G37, and TL competitor.

[pow]

here is a picture of a Buick to get back on topic

Looks good... reminds me of '90s Buick concepts, like a modernized Riviera.

[maxximus1]

glad to hear that the name "regal" is coming back. now only if there was a buick grand national!

[wildcat]

I find it curious that Buick.com lists on its homepage the following, in this order, under "Vehicles":

Enclave

LaCrosse

Lucerne

Invicta

Super Series

On that screen, they make no distinction between models currently in production and Invicta, other than there are prices shown for everything but Invicta. (It's only when one actually clicks on Invicta that it says "Concept.")

Maybe it means nothing.

Does anyone think they might use the name "Invicta" on an Alpha or Delta Buick? GM had to realize that the name Invicta was received very positively.

[The O.C.]

CTS pricing is fine as is. we don't need to push up the prices for price sake alone. perhaps you buy a CTS because it is awesome AND A good value.

They already HAVE pushed up prices.

A loaded '07 CTS (minus the V-series) topped out around $42K......mine was $41K with the manual tranny and all other options....

Today, base CTSs with automatics are around the $38,500 MSRP range.....and top $50K loaded......and I'm gonna guess the average MSRP is around $45,000 (based upon my witness of the CTSs we sell.....just as many loaded at $49-$50 as we do $40K ones.)

Difference is....in the old generation, very few were sold at maxed-out $42K MSRP equipment levels. Old CTS sold on price much more than substance. THIS CTS, however, can easily command respect, and sales, at the upper-$40K range.....

[wildcat]

. . . back to the original thread about Buicks . . . So in 3-4 years, Buick will have a 3 model line---Regal, LaCrosse, Enclave?

Possibly plus a Delta Buick and an Alpha Buick.

[thegriffon]

The Delta is near term, although the Cruze arrives first in China (the new plant has just opened), and the Alpha is long term, and thus more subject to delay and changes of strategy. It is probably necessary to amortize development costs of the architecture.

[smk4565]

No alpha Buick, Delta II makes sense. Buick buyers want soft, front drive is fine, it is easy to handle. Alpha has to be stiff and able to crush the Camaro SS in handling, because Alpha has to go against the 2012 3-series. So the Alpha platform will need a lot of time on the Nurburgring, no Buick needs to undergo testing in Germany.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No alpha Buick, Delta II makes sense. Buick buyers want soft, front drive is fine, it is easy to handle. Alpha has to be stiff and able to crush the Camaro SS in handling, because Alpha has to go against the 2012 3-series. So the Alpha platform will need a lot of time on the Nurburgring, no Buick needs to undergo testing in Germany.

Your thinking in the past, to what Buick buyers were of yesteryear. Buick will morph into something totally different from what it is today, now that Pontiac will have less of a role. Buick will fill the desires of people that aren't quite the AARP age. It will appeal to the people with the most cash, those in the age groups between 30 - 55. So yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus, and Buick will get an Alpha. Oh and by the way, the next generation of Camaro will be an Alpha too. :AH-HA_wink:

[Croc]

You mentioned 1995, which was FWD.

Oh, I see the confusion. What I meant was a 2005 STS maybe competed with a 1995 5er due to the chintzy interior and lack of features on the '05.

[Croc]

here is a picture of a Buick to get back on topic

THAT is an acceptable Buick interior. Looks like it already has been upgraded over the Opel. Either that, or the prior rendering made everything look like matte plastic.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Croc

[ZL-1]

glad to hear that the name "regal" is coming back. now only if there was a buick grand national!

The Insignia will have a turbo 2.8L V6 with AWD. It'd be nice to have a new sporty Regal, wouldn't it?