U.S. Getting the Buick Regal

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah.....but frankly Buick has no where near the brand cache to bring these consumers into the showroom.

Neither does Pontiac, in my opinion.

I don't pretend to know the answer......but I could never see this car working as a Buick. Actually, that's scary because if a car this good can't work as a Buick, will anything ever again?

I think the warm fuzzies that come from the Enclave and the next Lacrosse, will certainly help Buick a lot. Remember, the S40 and TSX start at 28k, the Lacrosse is moving on up. So this would be a good base for Buick. I think it would be slotted perfectly.

[pow]

The interior is too European-looking to fit in a Buick. Enclave and new LaCrosse are much more in tune.

You could always get the two-tone beige interior with fake wood to make it more "Buick"-like. Maybe the US Regal will come with an analog clock on the LCD screen.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the interior, but it's good enough if it were available now. It's certainly better than the current US LaCrosse's.

edit: I just noticed the Regal has a Buick steering wheel that's different from the Insignia's. I like it.

Edited December 11, 2008 by empowah

[Northstar]

I'm going to press you on this simply because I'm trying to understand the thought process. I'm not saying the Regal is decidedly upscale, but neither is the TSX nor the S40.

What makes this more finished? And how does your description of the Regal interior not also apply to the TSX?

It just seems that the Regal's interior could be put into just about any midsize sedan. It was originally intended to be the NG Aura in NA, afterall. The TSX is much more interesting and has contrasting colors that are much more pleasing to the eye, IMO. Perhaps the Regal interior would be better in other color combinations. I just feel like the Regal's interior is basically a sea of gray and boring to look at. Nothing about the TSX makes me say "wow," but it certainly is not as boring to me as the Regal interior.

I think (and hope) one reason that the Regal may be getting here so late is because the interior will be getting some sort of upgrade to make it a Buick. Look at the LaCrosse's interior, for example. A lower-rent version of that interior is what should be in the Regal. The car could also target lower end Audi A4s, and while this picture is of an upper-end model I assume, even a very nicely done version of the Regal interior would not touch it:

It's not so much that it is a bad interior, it just looks much too generic to me to be a Buick or entry-lux interior in 2012 or whenever it is getting here.

[pow]

I'll even go out on a limb and say that only 4-cylinders should be offered. Direct injected ecotec base engine and the Turbo DI Ecotech up level engine. Let Buick play off the remnants of turbo history they still have.

Agreed.

In China there's a 2.4L four-cylinder (164 hp) and a turbocharged 2.0L (217 hp). The 2.8T AWD is a gas-guzzler in the 9-3.

[Robert Hall]

I think (and hope) one reason that the Regal may be getting here so late is because the interior will be getting some sort of upgrade to make it a Buick. Look at the LaCrosse's interior, for example. A lower-rent version of that interior is what should be in the Regal. The car could also target lower end Audi A4s, and while this picture is of an upper-end model I assume, even a very nicely done version of the Regal interior would not touch it:

I love that A4 interior...love that seat color, the use of wood, and the assymetry of the upper dash.

Edited December 11, 2008 by moltar

[pow]

Look at the LaCrosse's interior, for example. A lower-rent version of that interior is what should be in the Regal.

They're not that different...

[VenSeattle]

Thank you for finding the pic of the two-tone Insignia interior with wood trim. I was actually looking for it when you posted it!!

I see no problem with that interior being a Buick Regal interior.

[Drew Dowdell]

It just seems that the Regal's interior could be put into just about any midsize sedan. It was originally intended to be the NG Aura in NA, afterall. The TSX is much more interesting and has contrasting colors that are much more pleasing to the eye, IMO. Perhaps the Regal interior would be better in other color combinations. I just feel like the Regal's interior is basically a sea of gray and boring to look at. Nothing about the TSX makes me say "wow," but it certainly is not as boring to me as the Regal interior.

I think (and hope) one reason that the Regal may be getting here so late is because the interior will be getting some sort of upgrade to make it a Buick. Look at the LaCrosse's interior, for example. A lower-rent version of that interior is what should be in the Regal. The car could also target lower end Audi A4s, and while this picture is of an upper-end model I assume, even a very nicely done version of the Regal interior would not touch it:

It's not so much that it is a bad interior, it just looks much too generic to me to be a Buick or entry-lux interior in 2012 or whenever it is getting here.

Now I just had an eye exam and the doctor didn't mention anything to me about color blindness..... but where in that TSX photo are the contrasting colors? I see black and I see silver. Same as on the Regal photo.

the A4 you posted is great, but that color combo isn't available till you select about $40,000 in other option packages.

[Robert Hall]

Now I just had an eye exam and the doctor didn't mention anything to me about color blindness..... but where in that TSX photo are the contrasting colors? I see black and I see silver. Same as on the Regal photo.

Dark gray upper pieces and light gray lower pieces in the TSX. The Regal interior looks like a good Aura interior, would follow on nicely from the interior in the current model.

[Drew Dowdell]

Dark gray upper pieces and light gray lower pieces in the TSX. The Regal interior looks like a good Aura interior, would follow on nicely from the interior in the current model.

THAT is what makes the TSX so much better? Sorry but that ranks up there with the "underside of the ashtray is so much higher quality on a Kia" comment that is in someone's sig

[G. David Felt]

Thank you for posting pictures of the Regal, I have to say that it does not inspire me at all, the exterior is Jelly Bean style boring and the interior is not much better.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm warming up to this idea...

So long as Buick can price, market and produce it as a premium vehicle and not just a Malibu with chrome tacked on.

[Robert Hall]

THAT is what makes the TSX so much better? Sorry but that ranks up there with the "underside of the ashtray is so much higher quality on a Kia" comment that is in someone's sig

Not necessarily. I was pointing out the two tone aspect that you said you couldn't see.

[Robert Hall]

The Regal and '10 LaCrosse should give Buick some decent cars to compete w/ the Milan, MKZ, Azera, Avalon, etc but I would like to see a RWD V6/V8 top of the line model to compete w/ the Genesis.

[gm4life]

I found some photos on GM Media and I really like this thing a six speed stick and a tubo GN model would be great.

[Sixty8panther]

SAAB and Volvo also.

Yes, that's where the a large chunk of the entry-premium market is.. the higher-end stuff (Audi, BMW, MB, larger Lexuses, Infiniti) is all RWD and/or AWD, of course, but at the volume end, FWD sells.

more proof that mediocrity is boss these days.

[Northstar]

Now that I've seen the Regal interior when it's not a blob of black it does look better, but still too much like the Aura and in 3-4 years like crap for a "brand new" model.

[Robert Hall]

more proof that mediocrity is boss these days.

Yes, that's what the masses want..they want their Camry, Accord, whatever...a functional, dull but reliable and well put together appliance.

[Satty]

Yeah, pandering to people who have money to spend, thats a horrible business decision.

[regfootball]

Sorry, that interior is so poorly-assembled and/or frankly cheap-looking. I can't tell if it is actually poorly-assembled, or just designed to look that way. It better be upgraded for NA if Buick is to be "premium" in any loose sense of the word.

picky picky my gosh

[regfootball]

The Regal is spot on. It's a domestic alternative to a TSX.

or S40

that TSX otherwise known as (TheSeX) interior

flat out sucks. you wanna talk $h! interiors, post that TSX pic again. or how bout just an accord interior with cloth and the drab black plastic. or any camry interior pic.

Edited December 12, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

I know it's simply an opinion, but what makes the TSX and S40 so much nicer? The imported badges?

If anything, I think the Regal and TSX look close enough to be related. I drive an S40 regularly, and the interior is nice, but rather stark.

yes, the badges.

i give the s40 props on the dash plastic. its an interesting texture and pattern, and a really nice gloss, even if the rest of the interior is spartan. the toast popping out of the toaster nav setup is especially lame ass.

you know someone posted something about volume and luxury cars.

in this economy, please someone tell me which "luxury cars" of any kind will sell in 'volume'.

FRONT OR REAR DRIVE.

like the 500 some odd 5 series that sold last month? or was that 7 series?

Edited December 12, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Thank you for finding the pic of the two-tone Insignia interior with wood trim. I was actually looking for it when you posted it!!

I see no problem with that interior being a Buick Regal interior.

very nice. i'd love to have that interior. not sure how anyone can bitch about this. oh wait, its 'people with overbearing and unreasonable expectations'

Edited December 12, 2008 by regfootball

[smk4565]

It probably doesn't matter what the interior looks like because it's unlikely that Buick will get conquest sales, and only cling to their dwindling customer base of senior citizens drawn in by $3500 cash back and 0.9% APR.

[Northstar]

How is a more modern version of the Aura interior going to work for an entry-lux car if this car is still around in 2015? The Aura interior was never even best in class in 2006 in the $20k segment when it came out.

The design of this interior makes it nothing more than an Aura with an integrated radio and a few updates here and there. This is my explanation of why we have to wait 3 extra years; that would be ample time for an MCE and interior re-do to make it competitive with lower-level A4s.

[Drew Dowdell]

The S40, while I like the over all car, has some fairly retarded HVAC controls

[Drew Dowdell]

How is a more modern version of the Aura interior going to work for an entry-lux car if this car is still around in 2015? The Aura interior was never even best in class in 2006 in the $20k segment when it came out.

The design of this interior makes it nothing more than an Aura with an integrated radio and a few updates here and there. This is my explanation of why we have to wait 3 extra years; that would be ample time for an MCE and interior re-do to make it competitive with lower-level A4s.

I still don't see your objection to this in a 28k car. There are more expensive imports with lesser interiors now.

[VenSeattle]

It probably doesn't matter what the interior looks like because it's unlikely that Buick will get conquest sales, and only cling to their dwindling customer base of senior citizens drawn in by $3500 cash back and 0.9% APR.

Buick's average buyer's age continuing to drop disagrees with your outlook of Buick.

Your dig at discounts driving sales is universal and is not exclusive to Buick, domestics, etc... Toyota can't increase sales with $4k discounts or 0% financing...

As Buick's line-up consolidates between US and China, Buick's image will 'continue' changing. It has already started with the Enclave. The Chinese Regal is far better than our current LaCrosse. That should indicate to everyone how much the NG LaCrosse is moving upscale.

[Drew Dowdell]

It probably doesn't matter what the interior looks like because it's unlikely that Buick will get conquest sales, and only cling to their dwindling customer base of senior citizens drawn in by $3500 cash back and 0.9% APR.

Maybe Buick could be SAVED BY ZERO!

[gm4life]

Buick is changing ever since the Lucerne and Enclave I have some faith in the brand.

[smk4565]

Not even Toyota could be Saved By Zero. Most annoying series of car ads in recent memory.

Outdoing the current LaCrosse is not a challenge, making the Regal or new LaCrosse better than the Accord or ES350 is. GM is king of making a new car that is benchmarked against the previous generation (Cobalt was better than Cavalier and G6 better than Grand Am, etc), rather than what the competition is doing. Challenge 2 is convincing people to buy a Buick sedan rather than a Japanese one.

Everyone talks about the success of the Enclave, they are on pace to sell under 40,000 of them this year, that isn't that great for a $32-45,000 SUV. The Acadia is priced the same and handily outsells it, the Pilot and RX350 outsell it by a wide margin also. The Enclave is the 3rd best selling vehicle on it's platform. Plus it was down 40% in November, while the industry was down 30-35%.

Edited December 12, 2008 by smk4565

[turbo200]

design wise the TSX strikes me as fashionable, technical, if not totally fluid. it looks like in person it will have a premium appearance. the regal/insignia isn't a revolution or innovation, something buick desperately needs to be relevant. we're all looking at this through hopeful eyes, but the reality of how a majority of the public looks at buick is more in line with lacrosse and smk's views than enclave and many of the other opposing views here.

the other thing the regal/insignia lacks is a real premium feel. it looks to me like it gives a better impression of quality in photo than it will in person. the tsx looks more expensive and flashy, even as the overall effect can be disorienting. anyone who looks at the S40 and doesn't see that simple elegance and a premium look seperate it from its lesser brethren is blind. the main thing setting it at a low price point is the lack of sheer size and features.

Edited December 12, 2008 by turbo200

[thegriffon]

No idea..financial constraints, probably. Anyone know when is the Insignia-based Regal going into production in China? 2009?

Now. released late November, pricing way too low, well below the Mondeo and Accord for both 2.0 and 2.4 L versions. Aside from the new grille and badging, it does get portholes, of a sort.

FYI, the Accord is priced well above the Camry now. The V6 is into Maxima/MKZ/Avalon territory (it is technically a large car), and only the availability of a comparatively expensive 4-cylinder makes it seem cheaper.

GM does need better pricing to separate the divisions (pushing Cadillac much higher at the top end), but they could easily position the Malibu against the Camry, and bracket the Accord with the 4-cylinder Regal and larger V6 LaCrosse.

What we really want though is for mid-large V6 models to go something like:

Chevrolet Malibu $25K

Pontiac G8 $30K

Buick LaCrosse $35K

Saab 95 $40K

Cadillac CT5 $45K

The 2.0 L in the Chinese Regal is a naturally aspirated version with 145 hp, not the 217 hp DI Turbo from the Insignia. The 2.4 L gets 168 hp and is shared with the current LaCrosse. That makes the 2.0 L unique as a naturally aspirated version of the new-generation Ecotec Family II block. Saab previously offered a low-boost version of the turbo with the same power, but I believe this unit is D-VVT instead. Both units get the new 6-speed auto.

[thegriffon]

OH, and Buick China is already mentioning 5-stars under the NHTSA crash test for the new Regal, as well as the less stringent C-NCAP (the slightly lower speed equates to 20% less energy to be absorbed), so go figure.

[Croc]

The Regal is spot on. It's a domestic alternative to a TSX.

or S40

I disagree. Both of those interiors look far more upscale than the Regal's.

[Northstar]

I still don't see your objection to this in a 28k car. There are more expensive imports with lesser interiors now.

But this car comes out in 3 years, which means if it comes out with this interior, this car will likely still have this same interior 6 years from now. If it is barely acceptable now, how will it be even remotely competitive in 6 years? By then, the current TSX will only be available as a used car.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think this is going to end up like that original new Mazda 3 thread where I just have to stop and realize that some of you are plain bat $h! crazy.

The TSX interior would be just fine in a Honda. There is NOTHING premium about it. Which is good because it is a Honda.

The S40 interior has that minimalist Swedish goodness in it's looks, but in person it is nothing to write home about. I use an S40 regularly on my Zipcar account.

There is nothing wrong with this as the Regal interior.

[Z-06]

I do not think anything is wrong with the Buick interior.

TSeX's new interior is nothing to write about. As a previous gen TSX owner I cringe when I look at the new interior. It looks even ho-hum in person and definitely a touch lower quality plastic. The dealer almost put my girlfriend in a new one, till she said it is too messy and she prefers the older one.

S40 feels cheap. It is simplistic, but nothing exciting.

Audi feels and looks the best, but like olds said by the time you get the real good interior you are looking at $40k.

These cars attract people (read mostly single folks) who want sedan do not want main stream and do not care for power too much. That is the reason why previous TSX did so well. The Regal with ubiquitous LNF turbo 4 (one with lower output and one with higher output) along with goodies will do fine here.

[Croc]

Olds, comparing your two pictures of the Honda/Acura TSX and the Insignia/Regal, I could quickly discern differences in quality almost immediately. These two are not equal.

First off. Look at the design of the interior. In the Honda/Acura, everything in the center stack is pretty much flush. Things line up, gaps are minimal. In the Regal/Insignia, though, it wasn't even designed to be flush. You have the buttons sticking out from the radio backplate, a dash upper that sticks out even farther, wood trim that isn't flush with anything, and numerous cutlines that aren't even consistent in width, i.e. things weren't lined up properly in manufacturing and the interior doesn't fit well together. And panel gaps are 2-3 times the size of those in the Honda/Acura.

Next, WTF with what looks like a very hard plastic center console and miniature "armrest"?

Red backlighting also doesn't jive with Buick, but that's easily changed.

My issue is like what Northie said: it isn't coming out today, it comes out in 3 years. It is IMO substandard now, it will be abysmal and ripped a new one in the press in 3 years. As it should be.

[regfootball]

It probably doesn't matter what the interior looks like because it's unlikely that TOYOTA will get conquest sales, and only cling to their dwindling customer base of senior citizens drawn in by $3500 cash back and 0.9% APR.

between the saved by zero and all the geriatrics driving toyotas these days, i'd say toyo is the one with all the 'senior citizens' these days.......

[regfootball]

Maybe Buick could be SAVED BY ZERO!

or they could just fleet dump like toyota and hyundai do.....

[regfootball]

Not even Toyota could be Saved By Zero. Most annoying series of car ads in recent memory.

Outdoing the current LaCrosse is not a challenge, making the Regal or new LaCrosse better than the Accord or ES350 is. GM is king of making a new car that is benchmarked against the previous generation (Cobalt was better than Cavalier and G6 better than Grand Am, etc), rather than what the competition is doing. Challenge 2 is convincing people to buy a Buick sedan rather than a Japanese one.

Everyone talks about the success of the Enclave, they are on pace to sell under 40,000 of them this year, that isn't that great for a $32-45,000 SUV. The Acadia is priced the same and handily outsells it, the Pilot and RX350 outsell it by a wide margin also. The Enclave is the 3rd best selling vehicle on it's platform. Plus it was down 40% in November, while the industry was down 30-35%.

dear god that's a reach for trying to paint a bad picture.

the enclave, all things considered, is doing quite well in this time.

[regfootball]

design wise the TSX strikes me as fashionable, technical, if not totally fluid. it looks like in person it will have a premium appearance. the regal/insignia isn't a revolution or innovation, something buick desperately needs to be relevant. we're all looking at this through hopeful eyes, but the reality of how a majority of the public looks at buick is more in line with lacrosse and smk's views than enclave and many of the other opposing views here.

the other thing the regal/insignia lacks is a real premium feel. it looks to me like it gives a better impression of quality in photo than it will in person. the tsx looks more expensive and flashy, even as the overall effect can be disorienting. anyone who looks at the S40 and doesn't see that simple elegance and a premium look seperate it from its lesser brethren is blind. the main thing setting it at a low price point is the lack of sheer size and features.

because you have already sat in and test drove an insignia. you must have flown over to europe to drive one!

Edited December 13, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Olds, comparing your two pictures of the Honda/Acura TSX and the Insignia/Regal, I could quickly discern differences in quality almost immediately. These two are not equal.

First off. Look at the design of the interior. In the Honda/Acura, everything in the center stack is pretty much flush. Things line up, gaps are minimal. In the Regal/Insignia, though, it wasn't even designed to be flush. You have the buttons sticking out from the radio backplate, a dash upper that sticks out even farther, wood trim that isn't flush with anything, and numerous cutlines that aren't even consistent in width, i.e. things weren't lined up properly in manufacturing and the interior doesn't fit well together. And panel gaps are 2-3 times the size of those in the Honda/Acura.

Next, WTF with what looks like a very hard plastic center console and miniature "armrest"?

Red backlighting also doesn't jive with Buick, but that's easily changed.

My issue is like what Northie said: it isn't coming out today, it comes out in 3 years. It is IMO substandard now, it will be abysmal and ripped a new one in the press in 3 years. As it should be.

and the current passat has all those things licked?

[regfootball]

I do not think anything is wrong with the Buick interior.

TSeX's new interior is nothing to write about. As a previous gen TSX owner I cringe when I look at the new interior. It looks even ho-hum in person and definitely a touch lower quality plastic. The dealer almost put my girlfriend in a new one, till she said it is too messy and she prefers the older one.

S40 feels cheap. It is simplistic, but nothing exciting.

Audi feels and looks the best, but like olds said by the time you get the real good interior you are looking at $40k.

These cars attract people (read mostly single folks) who want sedan do not want main stream and do not care for power too much. That is the reason why previous TSX did so well. The Regal with ubiquitous LNF turbo 4 (one with lower output and one with higher output) along with goodies will do fine here.

i need to ask, did you undergo a life changing experience owning your TSX? or at a minimum did it enhance your life?

not trying to be an ass, just asking why other feels this opel interior is HELL in comparison to a typical honda (i.e. super plastic) interior.

Edited December 13, 2008 by regfootball

[VenSeattle]

Everyone talks about the success of the Enclave, they are on pace to sell under 40,000 of them this year, that isn't that great for a $32-45,000 SUV. The Acadia is priced the same and handily outsells it, the Pilot and RX350 outsell it by a wide margin also. The Enclave is the 3rd best selling vehicle on it's platform. Plus it was down 40% in November, while the industry was down 30-35%.

1st thing: Enclave has already sold over 40,000 still with one month to go in 2008!!! Do you even check numbers????

2nd thing: The Enclave is the 2nd best selling CUV on its platform:

YTD Sales:

Acadia: 62,729 (down 4% for the year)

Enclave: 41,416 (up 68.6% for the year)

Outlook: 23,986 (down 24.1% for the year)

Traverse: 4,521 (new)

3rd thing: The Enclave is the only Lambda now being exported outside of North America (It's now offered in China.)

4th thing: You compare sales of the Enclave to the RX350 & the Pilot???? Good Grief... apples to apples SMK. Your selective/biased comparisons are always worthless. Let's have some consistency... Pilot does not compete with the RX350 or the Enclave. Compare the premium CUV segment. Enclave is doing very well, especially for the market climate:

YTD sales:

Lexus RX350 Sales: 74,249

Acura MDX Sales: 41,994

Buick Enclave Sales: 41,416

Lincoln MKX Sales: 26,962

Volvo XC90 Sales: 17,338

Hyundai Veracruz Sales: 10,055

VW Touareg Sales: 6,226

Truth be known, the RX350 is an anomaly... not the norm. The Enclave is doing very well in the premium mid-large CUV market. If it's not, then what is your excuse for Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, Hyundai, and Volkswagen?????

[ocnblu]

Well that picture of the light-coloured Insignia interior looks much nicer, imo, and shows how little needed to be done to satisfy my beef with it as a Buick.

[ZL-1]

because you have already sat in and test drove an insignia. you must have flown over to europe to drive one!

The only complaints I have read re the Insignia is about some lower dash plastics. I don't think it's behind that Honda Accord known to you in NA as the Acura TSX.

[Z-06]

i need to ask, did you undergo a life changing experience owning your TSX? or at a minimum did it enhance your life?

not trying to be an ass, just asking why other feels this opel interior is HELL in comparison to a typical honda (i.e. super plastic) interior.

Beats me why others think it is hell. May be some Opel bias many have. I personally do not like busy interiors. But to me compared to the Accord interior this one is better. Like I said there is nothing wrong with it, that does not mean it is giving me joygasm. As for the level of reaction, people have certainly reduced the criticism for the beige colored one, so certainly it does not look like hell.

As for the TSX, it was better than all of the GM or Ford cars (in 2005) in terms of practicality, ammenities, driving and fuel economy (often gives 35 mpg on highway) at an affordable price and at 90% of BMW RWD experience. And oh yes it has a gem of a 6-speed south of Porsche which can putter around at 20 mph in city in 6th gear to give hybridesque fuel efficiency. I may be mocked, but that car can dance and I agree why Car and Driver felt it that way too. Would I get it now? no because there are other cars which have surpassed it and the new hideousness turns me off (that is why the GF drives) and most importantly I am more of a GM fan that I used to be. But at that time no car beat the value of the TSX in my books. As for enhancing my life I would not reveal my personal details.

[CARBIZ]

Ven, I always look forward to your posts. It is nice to have at least one voice of sanity around here.