U.S. Getting the Buick Regal

[smk4565]

Your thinking in the past, to what Buick buyers were of yesteryear. Buick will morph into something totally different from what it is today, now that Pontiac will have less of a role. Buick will fill the desires of people that aren't quite the AARP age. It will appeal to the people with the most cash, those in the age groups between 30 - 55. So yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus, and Buick will get an Alpha. Oh and by the way, the next generation of Camaro will be an Alpha too. :AH-HA_wink:

That will be too many cars on one platform, the Cadillac version will seem cheaped out. Buick only needs 3 cars, small, medium, large with lengths about 183 (cobalt size), 190 (aura size), 196 (G8 size) inches. How do you price the alpha Buick if there is a DeltaII car which would be $23-28k (assuming the Curze goes to $23k and Buick picks up there). If you price the Alpha Buick at $28k it overlaps with the Regal or LaCrosse. A rwd compact Buick will struggle to sell and could sell worse than the G8 is now.

[Oracle of Delphi]

That will be too many cars on one platform, the Cadillac version will seem cheaped out. Buick only needs 3 cars, small, medium, large with lengths about 183 (cobalt size), 190 (aura size), 196 (G8 size) inches. How do you price the alpha Buick if there is a DeltaII car which would be $23-28k (assuming the Curze goes to $23k and Buick picks up there). If you price the Alpha Buick at $28k it overlaps with the Regal or LaCrosse. A rwd compact Buick will struggle to sell and could sell worse than the G8 is now.

Just because they are on the same platform doesn't mean they will look the same or have the function, or even draw the same buyers. Did you think the Cadillac and Chevy versions would have looked the same? The Chevy version will draw in the Camaro crowd, while the Cadillac version will take the Alpha into a trendier dimension. As for the Buick Alpha, it will remind Americans of the Buick Reatta, which sported its own unique body style and was crafted with an attention to detail, except that it will be RWD. The Buick version will appeal nicely to Americans and the Chinese that don't want a Camaro and can't afford a Cadilliac.

The Alpha will fit into GM's new Core Brand strategy of having a Volume version (Chevy), a well crafted version 2 or 3 levels above Chevy (Buick), and a trendy Version 2 or 3 steps above Buick (Cadillac). Sort of like having the sizes of small, medium, and large. The good news is that GM won't supersize the platform and give it to all it's car brands.

As for your concern about price between the Delta II and Alpha, what does it matter? They are 2 different platforms and one is a FWD, while the other is a RWD. You can buy apples and oranges at a supermarket that are similarly priced, but the fact remains, they are two different types of fruit, the same will hold true for the Delta II and Alpha.

Oh and never assume, you know what they say about that. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited December 20, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Z-06]

Just because they are on the same platform doesn't mean they will look the same or have the function, or even draw the same buyers. Did you think the Cadillac and Chevy versions would have looked the same? The Chevy version will draw in the Camaro crowd, while the Cadillac version will take the Alpha into a trendier dimension. As for the Buick Alpha, it will remind Americans of the Buick Reatta, which sported its own unique body style and was crafted with an attention to detail, except that it will be RWD. The Buick version will appeal nicely to Americans and the Chinese that don't want a Camaro and can't afford a Cadilliac.

The Alpha will fit into GM's new Core Brand strategy of having a Volume version (Chevy), a well crafted version 2 or 3 levels above Chevy (Buick), and a trendy Version 2 or 3 steps above Buick (Cadillac). Sort of like having the sizes of small, medium, and large. The good news is that GM won't supersize the platform and give it to all it's car brands.

As for your concern about price between the Delta II and Alpha, what does it matter? They are 2 different platforms and one is a FWD, while the other is a RWD. You can buy apples and oranges at a supermarket that are similarly priced, but the fact remains, they are two different types of fruit, the same will hold true for the Delta II and Alpha.

Oh and never assume, you know what they say about that. :AH-HA_wink:

Es ist logisch zu mir

[smk4565]

I have 2 concerns with Cadillac sharing Alpha with Chevy. First is people will be able to knock the BTS and say it is on a Chevy platform, just as the Lexus ES gets knocked because it is a Camry. 2nd, if the platform has a low enough cost to be in a Chevy, is it going to be as good as the 3-series platform? And by the time Alpha gets here, BMW will have an all new 3-series. Cadillac is already sharing the 3.6 V6 with the other brands and will share the 3.0 V6 as well, which is okay on a low end Cadillay, but they have to have some exclusive, leading edge stuff to pull buyers in. If you buy a BMW, you can't get that engine in any other car. If you buy a CTS you can get that engine in a $24k Chevy.

[frogger]

So does this mean the 9-3 is going away or will the Regal compete with it as well?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Es ist logisch zu mir

Es ist logisch, mich zu, Herr Ganesh ...

Edited December 21, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[smk4565]

So does this mean the 9-3 is going away or will the Regal compete with it as well?

The Regal is larger, it is identical in size to the Aura, the 9-3 is about 7 inches shorter, and sportier I can't see Saab being alive in 3 years though. I think Saturn will be dead also, so the Regal basically takes the place of the Aura.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Just because they are on the same platform doesn't mean they will look the same or have the function, or even draw the same buyers. Did you think the Cadillac and Chevy versions would have looked the same? The Chevy version will draw in the Camaro crowd, while the Cadillac version will take the Alpha into a trendier dimension. As for the Buick Alpha, it will remind Americans of the Buick Reatta, which sported its own unique body style and was crafted with an attention to detail, except that it will be RWD. The Buick version will appeal nicely to Americans and the Chinese that don't want a Camaro and can't afford a Cadilliac.

The Alpha will fit into GM's new Core Brand strategy of having a Volume version (Chevy), a well crafted version 2 or 3 levels above Chevy (Buick), and a trendy Version 2 or 3 steps above Buick (Cadillac). Sort of like having the sizes of small, medium, and large. The good news is that GM won't supersize the platform and give it to all it's car brands.

As for your concern about price between the Delta II and Alpha, what does it matter? They are 2 different platforms and one is a FWD, while the other is a RWD. You can buy apples and oranges at a supermarket that are similarly priced, but the fact remains, they are two different types of fruit, the same will hold true for the Delta II and Alpha.

Oh and never assume, you know what they say about that. :AH-HA_wink:

I think this is a good strategy...

So long as they don't look, feel the same or compete with each other. GM needs to broaden it's horizons and attack THE WHOLE MARKET, not shoot 7 versions of the same car at 1/3rd of the market.

Oh, and so long s Pontiac gets it niche role fulfilled and builds the character, equity and image of the brand.

[thegriffon]

So does this mean the 9-3 is going away or will the Regal compete with it as well?

The 9-3 switches to Delta (Global Compact), and will be downsized to become a true compact in exterior dimensions like the 3-Series and IS. The Regal remains midsize, while the LaCrosse is mid-large. PCS implies the Buick Alpha will be a coupe/cabrio like the Reatta, perhaps something like the G35 or CLK to replace the G6. For those alive long enough, you may remember GM actually built a rwd Reatta, which was crumpled by a (French??) journalist at a test day.

[Chazman]

Just because they are on the same platform doesn't mean they will look the same or have the function, or even draw the same buyers. Did you think the Cadillac and Chevy versions would have looked the same? The Chevy version will draw in the Camaro crowd, while the Cadillac version will take the Alpha into a trendier dimension. As for the Buick Alpha, it will remind Americans of the Buick Reatta, which sported its own unique body style and was crafted with an attention to detail, except that it will be RWD. The Buick version will appeal nicely to Americans and the Chinese that don't want a Camaro and can't afford a Cadilliac.

The Alpha will fit into GM's new Core Brand strategy of having a Volume version (Chevy), a well crafted version 2 or 3 levels above Chevy (Buick), and a trendy Version 2 or 3 steps above Buick (Cadillac). Sort of like having the sizes of small, medium, and large. The good news is that GM won't supersize the platform and give it to all it's car brands.

As for your concern about price between the Delta II and Alpha, what does it matter? They are 2 different platforms and one is a FWD, while the other is a RWD. You can buy apples and oranges at a supermarket that are similarly priced, but the fact remains, they are two different types of fruit, the same will hold true for the Delta II and Alpha.

Oh and never assume, you know what they say about that. :AH-HA_wink:

Seems very sensible to me.

As many of you know, my automotive world revolves around Camaro and my daily driver is a CTS, and have seriously cross-shopped cars like the 3 series and A4 in the past, so I will be watching with great interest how things develop with Alpha.

A couple of points:

I hope we can get a brilliant Camaro out of this. Smaller, lighter, less bulky looking. Something which in base form, can be nicely motivated with an efficient I4 at that end, but also suitable to finally give me my beloved Z/28 on the performance end. A smaller displacement (5.0L?), GDI, Gen V smallblock would round out such a package nicely, IMO. My personal disappointment in the 5th gen is well documented, but I hope it will be an adequate place keeper for the brand, until a more appropriate one can come - if it comes.

I hope the Cadillac Alpha is a no excuses competitor for the 3 series. Something that 3 series/C class/A4 owner may actually WANT to buy. And that's going to take proper engineering, focus, packaging and marketing. It's a tall order, and I hope that GM will have the people assembled in order to pull it off.

Once you have these two important pillars set in the Alpha program, it seems to me that modulating a Buick version in between would be relatively easy.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Chazman

[Z-06]

Seems very sensible to me.

As many of you know, my automotive world revolves around Camaro and my daily driver is a CTS, and have seriously cross-shopped cars like the 3 series and A4 in the past, so I will be watching with great interest how things develop with Alpha.

A couple of points:

I hope we can get a brilliant Camaro out of this. Smaller, lighter, less bulky looking. Something which in base form, can be nicely motivated with an efficient I4 at that end, but also suitable to finally give me my beloved Z/28 on the performance end. A smaller displacement (5.0L?), GDI, Gen V smallblock would round out such a package nicely, IMO. My personal disappointment in the 5th gen is well documented, but I hope it will be an adequate place keeper for the brand, until a more appropriate one can come - if it comes.

I hope the Cadillac Alpha is a no excuses competitor for the 3 series. Something that 3 series/C class/A4 owner may actually WANT to buy. And that's going to take proper engineering, focus, packaging and marketing. It's a tall order, and I hope that GM will have the people assembled in order to pull it off.

Once you have these two important pillars set in the Alpha program, it seems to me that modulating a Buick version in between would be relatively easy.

Yes that is what I am thinking of how an ideal Alpha should be. It will bring back real racing roots of a fun RWD at a lower budget which people can afford as a Chevy and take it to NASA or SCCA, while keeping the platform distinct enough to make its Caddy stablemate a formidable, prestigious image. The DI V8 seems intriguing to mee too. It is too bad, the funds are causing GM to hurt and spend moolah on bringing those V8's to life.

I agree upon the 4-cyl point too. LNF 2.0T has already shown its prowess. If that engine can be a base engine on a 3300lb odd car, it will make the car a spectacular racer.

[ZL-1]

The 9-3 switches to Delta (Global Compact), and will be downsized to become a true compact in exterior dimensions like the 3-Series and IS. The Regal remains midsize, while the LaCrosse is mid-large. PCS implies the Buick Alpha will be a coupe/cabrio like the Reatta, perhaps something like the G35 or CLK to replace the G6. For those alive long enough, you may remember GM actually built a rwd Reatta, which was crumpled by a (French??) journalist at a test day.

Goddamn French!!!

With the 9-3 going on Global Compact Architecture, any word of what will happen to the 9-1? Move down to Gamma, or be merged into a 9-3 range of Astra/Cruze-sized models with 3 and 5 door hatches, sedan, wagon and convertible?

Edited December 22, 2008 by ZL-1

[smk4565]

Saab is as good as dead, there probably won't be a next 9-3 or 9-1 or anything else.

[Robert Hall]

What will be, will be

[SAmadei]

That will be too many cars on one platform, the Cadillac version will seem cheaped out. Buick only needs 3 cars, small, medium, large with lengths about 183 (cobalt size), 190 (aura size), 196 (G8 size) inches. How do you price the alpha Buick if there is a DeltaII car which would be $23-28k (assuming the Curze goes to $23k and Buick picks up there). If you price the Alpha Buick at $28k it overlaps with the Regal or LaCrosse. A rwd compact Buick will struggle to sell and could sell worse than the G8 is now.

I don't believe there are enough people left from the Skyhawk demographic to support a small Buick... and I don't feel there is much of a market for "premium small cars" anyway... especially one with Buick written on it. Buick is the antithesis of the Mini, GTI, etc.

With Pontiac at most Buick dealerships, this is an opportunity for Pontiac, not Buick.

In other thoughts, I still thing the Chinese Park Avenue needs to come here... and I don't want to here about badge engineering... a Statesmen based Buick would get some serious press and would give Buick's image a kick in the ass.

So, Buick would have Medium, Large and Supersize... just like fastfood restaurants. (Though I really do not feel the Statesmen is Supersize... but it sounds better than "Slightly Larger". Buick hasn't had Supersize since 1976.)

[turbo200]

I hope the Cadillac Alpha is a no excuses competitor for the 3 series. Something that 3 series/C class/A4 owner may actually WANT to buy. And that's going to take proper engineering, focus, packaging and marketing. It's a tall order, and I hope that GM will have the people assembled in order to pull it off.

Once you have these two important pillars set in the Alpha program, it seems to me that modulating a Buick version in between would be relatively easy.

most importantly is having people within the company halls that get it. they need to know the consumer and what we expect from this kind of car. not having a family yet, not planning on one in the intermediate future, absolutely wanting to signal a premium sensibility, looking for design that is extremely appealing and sets itself apart because the competition is all very attractive, quality becomes an absolute, and performance, a fun car that reminds me of good times, of the fact that i am young, that allows me to move my way around easily and capably. the mindset of the consumer is the first place to begin when producing these cars. i am a little troubled by the way PCS described the roles these cars need to take. they should all have a very dialed in suspension feel and precise steering, a handling benchmark needs to be BMW, with GM's own take on suspension and driving refinement.

why do cars like the A4, 3 series, IS and C-class and other premium compacts succeed. they are upscale and fashionable, upper crust in every respect, first and foremost. they're inherently desirable and worth the cost of entry. this is furthered by really attractive design, this is the first element to success. i can't overstate how singularly important it's gonna be to get every design detail right, for each individual model if Caddy is gonna go the vert, coupe, sedan route. look to the picture below, there's not one line, on panel, or one point about the stance, profile, angles, and even facial features that does not look right. everything looks just about perfect. to varying degrees, I feel this way about all the 4 cars above.

some of the spy shots for the CTS coupe have me thinking the final product might be less than perfectly attractive, GM needs to follow this line of thinking with every model in development, but especially one from Cadillac if it's ever to become truly desirable at making luxury cars, is that every car needs to be inherently attractive. if this is not true, don't make it at all!!

Edited December 22, 2008 by turbo200

[regfootball]

5-series sold 2900 last month, that is a bad month, they are usually in the 3-4k range. (plus global sales which helps economies of scale)

I think $40k is as high as a front driver can go from any brand (I know what a S80 and DTS cost, those aren't exactly sales winners). The sweet spot for Buick is in the $28-35k range I believe, with a loaded up sedan going to $40k like the ES350 and MKS. People will pay $30-35k for a car because they have been paying that much for SUVs for years. SUV sales are dropping, families are downsizing, gas will go back up eventually and people will want a vehicle that is a step up from the CamCords of the world, but won't want an SUV. This is the demographic Buick needs to get after, small to midsize premium will emerge here as it has in Europe, Buick better be ready.

stated that waty it makes better sense. but honestly, with GM's history of cheap interiors, i don't think they can command 40k off the showfloor for a midsize......yet.

let's see what the MKs does in that regard. i think its doing ok.....it has a passable interior and should basically parallel with what buick wants or needs to sell their cars for.

[smk4565]

I don't believe there are enough people left from the Skyhawk demographic to support a small Buick... and I don't feel there is much of a market for "premium small cars" anyway... especially one with Buick written on it. Buick is the antithesis of the Mini, GTI, etc.

The 3-series, A4, C-class, IS250/350, Jetta, Mini, TSX, would disagree om there not being a market for small premium cars. The 3-series outsold the Cobalt the last couple months. Even the 9-3 and Volvo S40 and S60 find buyers and they aren't even good cars. I agree though that any thing with Buick written on it could be a tough sell.

Buick's small car shouldn't be aimed at young people wanting a racer like the GTI, but rather the middle aged demographic that wants something comfortable but doesn't need a big family car. They can target people that had a Cobalt or Civic and are trading up, or people that had a CamCord but don't need as big a car, but want some luxury feature. Gas will likely go back to $3-4 a gallon one day, so a small premium car will find buyers. If GM doesn't have them, it will be a repeat of the summer, when GM truck sales died and they had no desirable fuel efficient cars to sell.

Autoblog is reporting the LaCrosse will be the biggest Buick, and the Lucerne will die.

[smk4565]

stated that waty it makes better sense. but honestly, with GM's history of cheap interiors, i don't think they can command 40k off the showfloor for a midsize......yet.

let's see what the MKs does in that regard. i think its doing ok.....it has a passable interior and should basically parallel with what buick wants or needs to sell their cars for.

They sold 1,958 MKS in November, it was Lincoln's best seller that month. They have sold 11,000 to date. I suppose that is as good as it gets for a big front driver in a bad economy. Buick would only get $40k for a car if it was fully loaded with stuff like back up camera, head up display, maybe adaptive cruise control, ultraview roof, etc. The average sale price of the car would be low $30s. Much like the Lucerne now, it can touch $40k, but the bulk of the sales are closer to $30k.

[Robert Hall]

Autoblog is reporting the LaCrosse will be the biggest Buick, and the Lucerne will die.

I kind of figured that was the plan.... LaCrosse replaces Lucerne, Regal replaces W-LaCrosse. The era of the big car GM is dead (though their last real big cars were in '96).

[Chazman]

Yes that is what I am thinking of how an ideal Alpha should be. It will bring back real racing roots of a fun RWD at a lower budget which people can afford as a Chevy and take it to NASA or SCCA, while keeping the platform distinct enough to make its Caddy stablemate a formidable, prestigious image. The DI V8 seems intriguing to mee too. It is too bad, the funds are causing GM to hurt and spend moolah on bringing those V8's to life.

I agree upon the 4-cyl point too. LNF 2.0T has already shown its prowess. If that engine can be a base engine on a 3300lb odd car, it will make the car a spectacular racer.

Assuming Alpha's mass is held under control and it's package protected for a GenV smallblock, man alive, I could so many variations spun off of this architecture - just froma powertrain perspective alone.

I can see Cadillac's V version and Camaro's Z/28 sharing developement and components. And you're right, I can also see I4 and turbo I4 versions being very successful, both on the sales floor and the race track.

I'm sure we'll see developement of the Gen V smallblock continue, (assuming GM survives). As long as GM sells trucks and Corvettes, it will need a smallblock - and the Gen V will have the technology to deal with next decade's emissions and CAFE.

[Chazman]

But I guess this thread is about Buick......

A reborn, 21st century Riv for Buick, works for me.

[regfootball]

They sold 1,958 MKS in November, it was Lincoln's best seller that month. They have sold 11,000 to date. I suppose that is as good as it gets for a big front driver in a bad economy. Buick would only get $40k for a car if it was fully loaded with stuff like back up camera, head up display, maybe adaptive cruise control, ultraview roof, etc. The average sale price of the car would be low $30s. Much like the Lucerne now, it can touch $40k, but the bulk of the sales are closer to $30k.

i think the mks will settle in that 30-40k range for awhile. honestly, buick needs a higher volume car since BPG is not part of chevy. I HAVE BEEN SAYING that BPG should be folded into chevy.

honestly, pontiac to me still has more volume and profit potential. younger demographic. more palatable purchase prices because no luxury criteria exists. and pontiac has moved serious volume up until at least what 2004 or 2005 when they started to let their line rot.

if buick and pontiac each can support 100-150k a year, as an extension or upper bookened of chevy, i do not see why they still cannot exist. there is no harm in like 4 models each or pontiac and buick. that is one new model per year. the development is shared with china and au. my God, no brainer.

the cost is buying out the dealers and consolidating. something ford has been faster at. to get lincoln in the ford showroom.

MKs should bloom once the economy turns and the ecoboost models come out.

[smk4565]

MKS starts at $37,600, $39,500 with awd. It will never boom because of its size. It is 204 inches long and the Lincoln website doesn't even list weight because it is no doubt high. When the economy turns and the Town car is gone and it picks up some of those sales, maybe they'll hit 3k a month. 35,000 sold in a year is probably the best they can hope for.

[regfootball]

MKS starts at $37,600, $39,500 with awd. It will never boom because of its size. It is 204 inches long and the Lincoln website doesn't even list weight because it is no doubt high. When the economy turns and the Town car is gone and it picks up some of those sales, maybe they'll hit 3k a month. 35,000 sold in a year is probably the best they can hope for.

well it outsells the honda really lame RL otherwise known as the most bloated accord in the lineup

Edited December 24, 2008 by regfootball

[Z-06]

MKS starts at $37,600, $39,500 with awd. It will never boom because of its size. It is 204 inches long and the Lincoln website doesn't even list weight because it is no doubt high. When the economy turns and the Town car is gone and it picks up some of those sales, maybe they'll hit 3k a month. 35,000 sold in a year is probably the best they can hope for.

That estimate is still better than Infiniti M which has more than often had hard time to break the 20K annual sales barrier.

[buickguy]

A small Buick could do very well. There are many young professionals like myself 30 somethings who want an upscale smaller car, but want it to be American. Something that competes with the Audi A-4, or the small Lexus. The 3 series and C-class seem to be above the Audi and the Lexus. Buick has the quality and teh history to make a go for it

[Paolino]

A small Buick could do very well. There are many young professionals like myself 30 somethings who want an upscale smaller car, but want it to be American. Something that competes with the Audi A-4, or the small Lexus. The 3 series and C-class seem to be above the Audi and the Lexus. Buick has the quality and teh history to make a go for it

Every one of those is RWD. The Regal could compete with the base of those models, but never the performance versions.

[Croc]

Every one of those is RWD. The Regal could compete with the base of those models, but never the performance versions.

No AUDI is RWD.

[thegriffon]

Audi's are odd in that although the A4 and above use a longitudinal engine and transmission layout, 2wd versions are fwd, not rwd.

[MyerShift]

A small Buick could do very well. There are many young professionals like myself 30 somethings who want an upscale smaller car, but want it to be American. Something that competes with the Audi A-4, or the small Lexus. The 3 series and C-class seem to be above the Audi and the Lexus. Buick has the quality and teh history to make a go for it

Indeed. My first car ever was a Buick, so I have always liked Buick in some way, and find the badge to be a very beautiful one to boot.

As an Alpha car (small, rear drive Buick) I do believe that it could be successful if executed right. With DI I-4's and turbocharged DI fours, available DI V6 and manual transmissions available, it would be amongst my top picks based on the direction that Buick's styling seems to be heading.

[Robert Hall]

Audi's are odd in that although the A4 and above use a longitudinal engine and transmission layout, 2wd versions are fwd, not rwd.

Does Audi even sell 2wd models in the US anymore? Everything seems to be AWD...

[Z-06]

Does Audi even sell 2wd models in the US anymore? Everything seems to be AWD...

Yes A3 2.0T, and A4 2.0T.

Does anybody know the specifications for this new Chinese Regal in terms of dimensions, capacity, and weight?

[thegriffon]

vertually identical to the Insignia, but with different powertrain.

http://www.buick.com.cn/regal/specifications.aspx

dimensions are the last tab.

[Robert Hall]

vertually identical to the Insignia, but with different powertrain.

http://www.buick.com.cn/regal/specifications.aspx

dimensions are the last tab.

Translated from mm to US, it looks like the length is about 190 inches, wheelbase of 107 inches. 2.4 version is 3461lbs.

Edited December 28, 2008 by moltar

[Z-06]

So if we compare the Buick with the potential competitors:

Property	unit	Regal	TSX	A4	MKZ	S40	Passat	Average
Length      	inches	190.2	186.2	185.2	190.5	176.2	188.2	186.1
Width       	inches	73.1	72.5	71.9	72.2	69.7	71.7	71.8
Height      	inches	58.4	56.7	56.2	57.1	57.2	58.0	57.3
Wheelbase	inches	108	107	111	107	104	107	107
Curb Wt.	lbs	3428	3400	3527	3469	3363	3344	3422
Gas Tank	gallons	18.5	18.5	16.9	17.5	15.9	18.5	17.6
Trunk       	cu.ft	17.7	12.6	16.9	15.8	12.6	14.2	15.0

Buick is bigger than the average in every aspect. I could not find any interior volume data, but my guess is it will reflect those dimensions, making Regal a larger vehicle in terms of the interior volume. The trunk and gas tank are definitely the pluses. Given the power of all the cars in this comparison ranges from 200-227 hp, with the exception of MKZ (263 hp), the detuned LNF making 215hp will be in the ballpark, but nothing spectacular. I think it should be punched to the 260hp range without significant loss of fuel economy.

The average starting price of these cars ranges from $28,300 for Passat to $32,300 for the MKZ. While the average MPG city for the cars is about 21 mpg with Lincoln the least at 18 mpg to the most frugal Audi at 23 mpg.

If the level of convenience that Buick will offer is on par or above that offered in these cars and if its price falls right in the above range, then Regal will be an important player in the segment.

What struck me is that the fuel consumption at 90 kmph the website states is 5.6L/100 km i.e. is 42 MPG? Am I calculating that correctly? (100/5.6)*(0.621 km -> miles)/(0.264 liters -> gal (US)). If such is the case who needs a Fusion Hybrid?

Edited December 28, 2008 by smallchevy

[cire]

That will be too many cars on one platform, the Cadillac version will seem cheaped out. Buick only needs 3 cars, small, medium, large with lengths about 183 (cobalt size), 190 (aura size), 196 (G8 size) inches. How do you price the alpha Buick if there is a DeltaII car which would be $23-28k (assuming the Curze goes to $23k and Buick picks up there). If you price the Alpha Buick at $28k it overlaps with the Regal or LaCrosse. A rwd compact Buick will struggle to sell and could sell worse than the G8 is now.

I think the Alpha platform will possibly be utilized this way:

Chevy: Next gen Camaro on SWB Alpha.

Buick: Buick Riviera coupe on LWB Alpha with styling based on the recent Riviera Concept.

Cadillac: BTS(?) compact sedan/wagon/coupe on SWB Alpha; next gen CTS sedan/wagon/coupe on LWB Alpha.

I think all sub-Cadillac applications of the Alpha platform (which I also think will be extremely limited) will be reserved for specialty vehicles, such as sporty coupes. Sub-Cadillac mainstream vehicles (such as sedans and crossovers) will continue to be FWD based products (with AWD as a possible option).

If the above statements become a reality, then there will be no internal competition between Delta, Epsilon, and Alpha at Buick or Chevrolet.

[smk4565]

Translated from mm to US, it looks like the length is about 190 inches, wheelbase of 107 inches. 2.4 version is 3461lbs.

It is pretty much identical in size to the Aura, same 2.4 engine, the Chinese version has a 2.8 V6 I think as an option (it is whatever Opel uses). This car will replace the Aura when Saturn dies, thus compete with higher end Malibu/Camry/Sonata.

[smk4565]

I think the Alpha platform will possibly be utilized this way:

Chevy: Next gen Camaro on SWB Alpha.

Buick: Buick Riviera coupe on LWB Alpha with styling based on the recent Riviera Concept.

Cadillac: BTS(?) compact sedan/wagon/coupe on SWB Alpha; next gen CTS sedan/wagon/coupe on LWB Alpha.

I think all sub-Cadillac applications of the Alpha platform (which I also think will be extremely limited) will be reserved for specialty vehicles, such as sporty coupes. Sub-Cadillac mainstream vehicles (such as sedans and crossovers) will continue to be FWD based products (with AWD as a possible option).

If the above statements become a reality, then there will be no internal competition between Delta, Epsilon, and Alpha at Buick or Chevrolet.

Buick doesn't need a Riviera, it won't sell. The most cost effective lineup (that fits what Buick buyers want) is 3 front drivers based on Chevys, like what Lincoln did with the MKZ and MKS, but with a compact added.

What I wonder is would people spend $45,000+ on a 3-series if it shared a platform with a Camaro or Mustang. I would guess not, therefore Cadillac shouldn't share a platform with the Camaro either. Unless the Camaro bases around $30k and becomes a more expensive car, which won't happen.

[cire]

Buick doesn't need a Riviera, it won't sell. The most cost effective lineup (that fits what Buick buyers want) is 3 front drivers based on Chevys, like what Lincoln did with the MKZ and MKS, but with a compact added.

What I wonder is would people spend $45,000+ on a 3-series if it shared a platform with a Camaro or Mustang. I would guess not, therefore Cadillac shouldn't share a platform with the Camaro either. Unless the Camaro bases around $30k and becomes a more expensive car, which won't happen.

The Camaro and Riviera would serve as "halo" cars that would draw positive attention to the brand; they are not intended to sell in high volumes. The FWD Delta/Epsilon based sedans and Theta/Lambda based crossovers would draw the needed volume to the brands (which I agree with you about these products being essential to the success and longevity of both Chevrolet and Buick).

As long as the Alpha based Cadillacs are properly executed and differentiated from their Camaro/Riviera platform mates, then I don't see them necessarily cheapening the image of the Cadillac products. I don't believe a lot of the general public realizes or cares if their premium/luxury vehicles share a platform with more affordable/mainstream vehicles as long as the product is not a blatant rebadge. The general nonenthusiast consumer will be satisfied and contented as long as the product looks and operates like a premium or luxury vehicle. Platform sharing has definitely not harmed the public's perception of Audi, Lexus, Infiniti or Volvo. To me, limiting the sub-Cadillac applications of Alpha to specialty vehicles only increases the distinctiveness or uniqueness of the Alpha platform.

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick doesn't need a Riviera, it won't sell. The most cost effective lineup (that fits what Buick buyers want) is 3 front drivers based on Chevys, like what Lincoln did with the MKZ and MKS, but with a compact added.

What I wonder is would people spend $45,000+ on a 3-series if it shared a platform with a Camaro or Mustang. I would guess not, therefore Cadillac shouldn't share a platform with the Camaro either. Unless the Camaro bases around $30k and becomes a more expensive car, which won't happen.

Your bloody beloved Jaguar XF shares the same basic platform with the Mustang..... will that make you stop jerking off over it? I doubt it.

[NOS2006]

If you guys want to update Ted's list in the Resource Guides, the Regal should be GMX350 AFAIK...