Start the Concept Speculation!

[NOS2006]

First, I don't.. I repeat.. DON'T want you guys saying the Camaro isn't coming. Haters, leave or don't comment.

Now let's start some speculation! What do you expect to see at NAIAS, if, indeed, a Camaro concept is shown. Remember, it will be a CONCEPT, not a complete production model. Oh, and if you disagree with someone, that's okay. This is only personal speculation/hopes.


My Speculation:

Design:
Front end will have one of two designs. One, quad headlights with a lower grille like the 4th Gen. Two, something like Horton's.

Rear design will definitely have LEDs and the taillights will either be quad round ones or a panel like the 3rd Gens. Hopefully the license plate is between the taillights, but will probably be in the bumper.

Body will probably have the '69 speed lines or whatever coming from the wheel wells. I'm expecting a body like Chris Pauwel's concept.

Powertrain:
Probably the 6.0L pushing 400ish HP and similar torque. 6 speed manual. RWD (but I have a feeling they may show a AWD model).

Presentation:
Red, of course. Z/28 (with the slash) I'm guessing. Chrome 5 spoke rims (18/19" front/rear). Will be a great display.

[Croc]

But NOS, it isn't coming. JK!!! Though I will be laughing my ass off if the whole thing is a very elaborate hoax. You have to admit that would be funny as hell.

[z28luvr01]

If that's the case, then we'll see the Fbodfather's head on a pike by Jan. 10. For the body, all I can say is that I expect a more proper coupe than the 3rd and 4th gens. Fbodfather is saying that the body is like the C6 in that it's a new design with cues from all past generations. Probably no chrome bar. Quad circle taillights would be sweet....anyone else want that to be an across-the-board Chevy styling cue? For the engine...I'd say they up the ante and maximize the buzz, and put an LS7 in it. Six speed tranny is a given.

[Croc]

We've discussed before how a V-6 isn't likely.

[mystik]

Drop the C5 Z06's engine in it and call it the Camaro SS...this car needs to be damn iconic. It's #1 competitor will be the Mustang...but the problem with sales will be sadly how it appeals to female buyers. The Mustang is still a bit on the girly side. The Camaro just can't seem to do that...which I cant help but love. After all, it was a 1994 Z-28 that got me lovin GM cars in the first place....

[Croc]

It would make it too downmarket. Camaro won't be competing with all trims of the Mustang. GM wants the Camaro--EVERY Camaro--to be powerful and great. No weak-ass V6s. They are targeting enthusiasts, not wimps. Enthusiasts want V8s. Plus GM is going for higher profit margins. A low-priced V6 won't do it. Edited November 6, 2005 by Croc

[NOS2006]

Croc. You cannot be serious.. :blink:

[Northstar]

I think NOS is speculating what engine will be in the concept, not necessarily the production model. And a concept Camaro sure as hell won't have a V6. I'm guessing either a supercharged LS2 with over 500hp (to one-up the Mustang GT500 which is also supercharged) or the LS7.

[NOS2006]

Oh, is Croc talking about the concept Camaro not having a six? I thought he meant the real thing shouldn't have a six, period.

[Northstar]

No, I think he's just talking about the production one. I just thought it was odd that we got on to production engines when you started the thread to talk about the concept.

[Croc]

Yea, no V6 period. on either. This would be another halo vehicle...why dilute it?

[Croc]

That's just it though; they aren't excluding a "big market." It is very much a niche market. GM wants the Camaro to be a home run...now think of this: A V6 model would be priced no less than 25k, most likely closer to 27k. Go back and look in the other thread for my reasons on this, but don't call that into question here. Just assume that that's the "given" of this scenario. A V8 would be pretty close to if not exactly 30k. Now...GM is designing the REST of the vehicle...are they going to put a 30k interior in a 25k car? No. Are they going to WANT to have a 30k car that is bitched at for having a 25k interior? Not really. Since this entire vehicle program is enthusiast driven, GM is likely going to pull out all of the stops and make it a nice 30k V8-only vehicle with a befitting interior. Also think about this: Corvette starts off 45k. Would it make any sense whatsoever for a Camaro with similar performance to be priced much below 30k? Don't make a driving dynamic argument because all of GMs cars need to handle well. Corvette is priced perfectly. Camaro should be more affordable, but not a giveaway. Giveaways are ridiculous.

[Croc]

Don't forget SKY, starting at ~25k Also...they aren't so much moving it upmarket as they are reintroducing the nameplate at a slightly higher market. Here's the thing: the new Camaro will be a LOT better an overall vehicle than the 4th gen, and this should and will be reflected in the pricing.

[Croc]

Doesn't SSR start around 40k?? I would expect Camaro pricing to closely reflect that of the GTO. Edited November 6, 2005 by Croc

[balthazar]

A new, unique platform production Camaro without a Firebird to assist in volume & amortize costs would not make a sound business case as a V-8-only model. A hot powerful V-6 is not 'downmarket' even in this price range: Cadillac is traditionally a V-8 marque yet look at the CTS's market performance in the 30K-40K segment- not a single media damnation for being a V-6.

[ehaase]

If the same RWD platform used for the Camaro is also used for RWD sedans to replace the W and G bodies, then those sedans could use mostly V6 and some V8 engines and the Camaro could be strictly a V8 competitor for the Mustang GT and upcoming Shelby Mustang SVT. I don't think that GM is going to design a platform just for the Camaro as Ford did for the Mustang.

[Dsuupr]

I would expect GM to package and price the Camaro near the current Mustang. Remember, volume is also important to GM and building a low volume Camaro would not help them go back to the magic 30%. In the end it's about money. The V-6 Mustang makes Ford ALOT of money.

[Sixty8panther]

A new, unique platform production Camaro without a Firebird to assist in volume & amortize costs would not make a sound business case as a V-8-only model. A hot powerful V-6 is not 'downmarket' even in this price range: Cadillac is traditionally a V-8 marque yet look at the CTS's market performance in the 30K-40K segment- not a single media damnation for being a V-6.

[post="39245"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Agreed, besides look at the Charger 3.5. When the car came out I was like I'd never be caught dead in a freekin V6 car this big but the thing is quite quick and fast enough for a daily comute. V6 Camaros driven by Cheerleaders, Dental Hygenists, Middle managers wiht a midlife crisis, Legal Secretarys and people who can't afford a V8 but want a new car are a good way to double the production number of a car.

[Bimmer325]

I would expect Camaro pricing to closely reflect that of the GTO.

[post="39231"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

In which case GM would be fucked.

I don't know where you're getting your ideas, but I think we can all agree that GM would be better off NOT PRODUCING A CAMARO AT ALL if pricing reflects the GTO. The Camaro is a decidedly more mainstream model than the GTO. At $30k, it'd be the flop of the decade. Guaranteed.

[ehaase]

If the Camaro shares its architecture and many components with a high volume sedan or two and is built at the same plant, then I do not believe that a V6 version will be necessary for volume. The Mustang does not share its platform with any other Ford, and the platform is not flexible enough for a sedan version. Therefore, the V6 Mustang is necessary for volume. But if the Camaro shares its platform with the next generation Impala or a new Caprice (if the Impala goes to the LWB Epsilon II) and a companion Pontiac or Buick sedan, then I don't think that a V6 Camaro would be necessary. It may be desirable, but not necessary. I do think that a V8 Camaro would be priced about the same as a V8 Mustang, not the GTO.

[Northstar]

I think they'll have a V6 Camaro for two reasons even if it's not necessary for volume. First, not everyone wants a V8, and that takes the Camaro off of their list if it's V8-only, and GM possibly loses a sale. Second, just because we'll have V6 sedans doesn't mean someone wanting a V6 coupe will buy the sedan. They'll probably just go buy a Mustang. Just because it's not needed for volume doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. GM would abandon a large market if it just let everyone looking for a V6 coupe go elsewhere. Now, if there was a Monte Carlo/Chevelle with a V6, then maybe the V6 Camaro wouldn't be needed.

[hyperv6]

This is what has been said by Fbod. None of the drawings have it right. Expect cue's from all gens, and expect some second gen [in the roof]. At one point he said a SS would be considered for the performance model and Z28 would be top line , the reverse of what it was in the last year. But this was far from a settled thing. The top line performance car would be limited like a Cobra. It will have a trunk and no hatch a convert would follow in a year or two. All this infor was given a while back and is always subject to change. As for my own thoughts I would expect a lot of styling will be taken from the SS concept. I would expect the front end grill styling roof and mabey tail lights?? Just a thought. As for drivetrain I will only say a V8 and V6. GM would doom this car if they do not provide a well equipt V6 car. They need to correct where the 4th gen failed. They could not give away the V6 cars and sold mostly V8's. They also need to appeal to women as the 4th gen sold mostly to men. These two points are what have supported the Mustang and not the F body in the last few years it was sold. Also lets not forget the insurance factor. more younger people can afford the V6 insurance and not the V8. The way I see it the V6 cars are more important than the V8. You know the V8 will sell but not in the total number GM need, 70% of these car they sell will need to be V6. Just look at how many V6 05 mustangs are on the streets today with strips and such, they are the majority. Price will just under cut the Mustang if GM holds to their pricing program to under cut the others prices. As for what V8 engines I would hate to guess at this point but keep in mind the engines from the SSR will be available soon as they kill it off.

[Mr.]

My source tells me "I will love it" even though I am not pleased with most current GM designs. My biggest fear is that they will impose the same dull design on Camaro as with Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo, and GTO just to name a few. One thing is for certain, the NAIAS Camaro concept will be retro.

[Croc]

In which case GM would be fucked. 

I don't know where you're getting your ideas, but I think we can all agree that GM would be better off NOT PRODUCING A CAMARO AT ALL if pricing reflects the GTO.  The Camaro is a decidedly more mainstream model than the GTO.  At $30k, it'd be the flop of the decade.  Guaranteed.

[post="39370"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't be silly. First of all, I expect Camaro to start off as a BASE just under 30k. Maybe 28 or 29k. GTO starts at 32k/33k. Don't go acting like the GTO is overpriced because it isn't. It is quite a bargain. The US auto industry is pretty saturated; no vehicle is going to get megavolume these days. As I said before, GM is focusing on higher profit margin vehicles. This Camaro will be RWD obviously...so how many RWD platforms does GM have? I count two. One is too expensive, the other is more reasonable. This one we have been calling "Zeta." Now, there is no way in hell the Camaro will have a unique platform. That would be retarded. The next GTO will most likely be US-built, and will be on Zeta. So right there we have two vehicles on the same platform. There is a rumored Buick and a rumored Pontiac sedan, possibly a Chevrolet sedan. That brings the total number of vehicles to 4 or 5. Costs will be lowered due to this. A V6 Camaro will not be necessary for GM to make money. In fact, I think it would be detrimental for two reasons: GM would lose money giving away a 30k interior in a 25k vehicle and lose sales by offering a 30k V8 with a 25k interior. GM is NOT going to design two different interiors, that would be a waste. The second reason is that of image. If all Camaros have a V8, they will have a better image. Also, what V6 would GM put in it? Frankly, I think the General needs to develop some better 6s because their current ones aren't that great IMO.

[Northstar]

Don't be silly.  First of all, I expect Camaro to start off as a BASE just under 30k.  Maybe 28 or 29k.  GTO starts at 32k/33k.  Don't go acting like the GTO is overpriced because it isn't.  It is quite a bargain.  The US auto industry is pretty saturated; no vehicle is going to get megavolume these days.  As I said before, GM is focusing on higher profit margin vehicles.  This Camaro will be RWD obviously...so how many RWD platforms does GM have?  I count two.  One is too expensive, the other is more reasonable.  This one we have been calling "Zeta."  Now, there is no way in hell the Camaro will have a unique platform.  That would be retarded.  The next GTO will most likely be US-built, and will be on Zeta.  So right there we have two vehicles on the same platform.  There is a rumored Buick and a rumored Pontiac sedan, possibly a Chevrolet sedan.  That brings the total number of vehicles to 4 or 5.  Costs will be lowered due to this.  A V6 Camaro will not be necessary for GM to make money.  In fact, I think it would be detrimental for two reasons: GM would lose money giving away a 30k interior in a 25k vehicle and lose sales by offering a 30k V8 with a 25k interior.  GM is NOT going to design two different interiors, that would be a waste.  The second reason is that of image.  If all Camaros have a V8, they will have a better image.  Also, what V6 would GM put in it?  Frankly, I think the General needs to develop some better 6s because their current ones aren't that great IMO.

[post="39447"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Camaro won't base just under $30k, no one would pay $29k for a base Camaro, V8 or not. If that's GM's goal they'll name it Chevelle or something.

Last I heard the GTO was on hold, so it's not a definite. Also, what's the point of having both a Camaro and GTO if they occupy the same $30+k segment?

From what I've read, the success of the Camaro and Chevy sedan is what makes a Buick and Pontiac sedan successful, so the Camaro and Chevy sedan have to be high volume in order to justify the more expensive, lower volume Pontiac and Buick.

[ocnblu]

It's a no-brainer: GM needs a V6 Camaro if it is to have one at all. And it needs to be priced with Mustang, its natural competitor forever. That's the only way to make it a success. The 3.9L is fine for a base model Camaro, and will be on par with Ford's upcoming, more powerful 6 cylinder in Mustang.

A spirited 6 cylinder engine in the GTO body with a different name and trim would be a smart way for Pontiac to ensure that car's modern gen-II success as well. Let the market decide if the FWD G6 coupe or the RWD "Tempest" stays.

A 6 cylinder variant could only expand the car's market by a pretty wide margin. Anyone who advocates V8-only is wishing for a flop, imo, along the lines of the SSR.

We don't need another boutique car. We need a car that's versatile enough to sell in the sweet $20k-$32k market.

True enthusiasts know that a 6 cylinder version only ensures the success of the V8.

[ehaase]

What Northstar said is exactly what I have read. Camaro and a RWD Chevy sedan are the most likely. A GTO is unlikely. RWD Pontiac and Buick sedans are possible, but not as likely. The upcoming Zeta Holden Commodore could be imported here as a Pontiac or Buick (Pontiac seems more likely), but that's not definite. I do agree with Croc that a V6 Camaro is not necessary, but I do believe that there will be one. None of this is definite, but is interesting. Most of you are mostly interested in the Camaro, but I am more interested in the Chevy sedan. I'm older and more conservative than most of you. Edited November 6, 2005 by ehaase

[91z4me]

Well since this is about the concept I will keep away from the V6 debate. I think we will see a split front grill, like the 06 Impala, but with chome being definate. I think we will see LED headlights and Taillights. I expect the concept chassis to be C6 based. Also I expect the roof to be so low that you can tell it is just a concept. The rear headroom will be non existant and rear leg room will be tiny. I think the engine will be the LS2 OR it could be a supercharged v8, the one rumored to go into the GMT900 Silverado SS. I also expect a 6 speed auto with paddle shifters and not a 6 speed manual. I expect the roofline to be very 2nd gen influenced with a rear 1/4 window. A hood scoop is also expected. Finally I expect wheel well flares like 69 had. I suggested Blue to differentiate it from the SS concept but I think that stripes are a VERY possible addition.

[AAS]

I don't doubt that the concept (and production version) will have a competitive powertrain... What I want to see is a design that will blow the mustang out of the water! I want to see flared fenders, seductive body lines and an overall agressive design.

[Croc]

I wouldn't write off another GTO...it is selling well in Los Angeles.

[NOS2006]

And in Michigan.

[turbo200]

I HATE to turn this thread away and would love for my comment to be the last on this board ever about this subject. but that's not gonna happen. A V6 Camaro is a necessity just like the Cobalt is a necessity for the HHR to even exist. Volume and unit sales drive profit. Economics of scale is a simple concept. Croc, why do you insist on arguing something so illogical? I don't want to turn this thread back around so I'll back off, but you know NOTHING about this car. There's so many reasons not to speculate about engine choices, that this is quite possible the dumbest argument for me to enter into right now, but you're an easy target. Most of us here don't know anything concrete on the Camaro, but your rants go on endlessly stating heresay like they were facts. Think logically for a moment. You haven't done enough research or put enough thought into this if you think GM would let potential volume alone. Let alone the fact that Chevy is the VOLUME division, for mainstream people, they have no business making a CAMARO FOR ONLY RICH PEOPLE!!!!!!! Here we are 2005 and that same GTOs future you speak is completely uncertain. WHY EVER in any world would GM make the exact same business case over again, especially in these times? I suggest you drop it. OKAY, back to the subject at hand, I would LOVE for this concept to have the 2nd Gens roofline, absolutely LOve it. Also, the quad taillights would be awesome. Those two features alone make me crazy thinking of how bad I just want the 2nd gen or 1st gen Camaro design reinterpreted in a modern car.

[turbo200]

no question for me, the first one is much better and original and evocative of sexiness.

[Croc]

...??? Edited November 7, 2005 by Croc

[evok]

We've discussed before how a V-6 isn't likely.

[post="39154"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't you remember that Camaro thread I posted last year? Let the Mustang be your guide. Hell, let the past F-Body programs be your guide. GM does not need another niche vehicle in their portfolio that sells only 20k vehicles a year. Edited November 7, 2005 by evok

[Chazman]

Don't you remember that Camaro thread I posted last year?  Let the Mustang be your guide.  Hell, let the past F-Body programs be your guide.  GM does not need another niche vehicle in their portfolio that sells only 20k vehicles a year.

[post="39775"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly!

[NOS2006]

Thank you, evok.

[Croc]

Don't you remember that Camaro thread I posted last year?  Let the Mustang be your guide.  Hell, let the past F-Body programs be your guide.  GM does not need another niche vehicle in their portfolio that sells only 20k vehicles a year.

[post="39775"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Honestly I don't, but I do remember two posts of AH-HA's from last month:

$20k for a new Camaro, keep dreaming, not going to happen.  Any new Camaro isn't going to be like the Mustang, with the bulk of sales coming from a V6 model.  GM and Chrsyler for that matter will both more than likely focus on higher margin, performance models rather than volume.  So you're not going to see sales of 200,000 Camaro or Challengers, probably less than half that.

[post="29313"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

and then:

Don't get me involved in your pissing match. :angry:

The deal is, that GM won't be doing a lot of V6 models like the Mustang.  Total Camaro sales will be under 100k/year.

[post="29475"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is the most current info I've heard, and frankly it seems the most credible given what GM has been going through. It just makes logical sense to me....logical BUSINESS sense, not necessarily logical given what GM has done with the Camaro in the past.

[evok]

Thank you, evok.

[post="39790"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not looking to take sides, just pointing out the absurdity of the argument given the company is hemoraging money and what will actually happen if or when the green light is given.

[Croc]

I really don't think it's that absurd. See above. GM needs the $$$ more than the sales volume. Edited November 7, 2005 by Croc

[evok]

I really don't think it's that absurd.

[post="39795"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes it is.

[Croc]

Well then why don't you counter the evidence from AH-HA with something SPECIFIC. You know, something other than "no, you're wrong." EXPLAIN.

[evok]

Well then why don't you counter the evidence from AH-HA with something SPECIFIC.

You know, something other than "no, you're wrong."  EXPLAIN.

[post="39797"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Why, because I tell you things that you do not like to hear. Last Feb. I outlined the damn program for the world to see.

If you have read the post you mentioned, there was no mention that there would not be a V6 just that the product mix would lean to a more V8 powered mix. That is just speculation at this time.

As I have posted many many many time, the Mustang means more to Ford than Camaro does to GM. GM is not expecting a Camaro to sell 200k vehicle like the Mustang. But GM knows the realities of that and will tool up to sell app. 70 - 100k. Even to get those number they have to offer a V6.

You want public evidence - look at the all V8 GTO line up.

And also last I checked there still is no Camaro program that is scheduled for production. Edited November 7, 2005 by evok

[Croc]

No, I have no problem with "being told things I do not like to hear" because I like hearing correct, up-to-date information. I don't put emotions into it because I would prefer to be correct than be some whiny fanboy. You should know that by now; my posting motive isn't enigmatic by any means. You cite this February outline...well frankly I don't recall it specifically, and that portion of the site has been wiped out. Don't get so pissy that I can't remember something you posted that far back in any detail. Seriously, as reliable an insider as you have been, I don't hang on every word you type on this site. As far as the GTO, the only public complaint I have heard about it has been the fact that it looks like a 1997 Grand Prix. The styling is the most off-putting element of the car. Do you really think adding a weaker V6 to the GTO would make it sell any better? I really don't. You can get far more current, attractive designs with similar V6s for the same price or less. I think it has been pretty clear that the very dated styling is what has hurt the GTO the most. Frankly, I am getting tired of all this Camaro crap, especially since as you have astutely noted numerous times, there is no Camaro program at GM that has gotten the green light and that we are still several years away from RWD vehicles. GM can produce all the concepts they'd like, but that doesn't mean any of them will make production any time soon. Honestly, what is this thread for? Speculating on what a concept will look like? Or a nonexistent production-spec Camaro "concept" like the AURA? If we are talking about a real concept vehicle, then my bets are that it runs on baked beans, does my laundry for me, gets 95mpg with a 600hp V24 and 32sp transmission with DOD, cannot be dented or crashed, AND makes the perfect omelette every time.

[z28luvr01]

As far as the GTO, the only public complaint I have heard about it has been the fact that it looks like a 1997 Grand Prix.  The styling is the most off-putting element of the car.  Do you really think adding a weaker V6 to the GTO would make it sell any better?  I really don't.  You can get far more current, attractive designs with similar V6s for the same price or less.  I think it has been pretty clear that the very dated styling is what has hurt the GTO the most.

For what it's worth, 2004 GTO sales picked up after GM started putting incentives on them. It was quite a performance bargain, but few saw it that way. The 2005s have for the most part moved fairly well on their own. The appearance upgrades and the extra 50hp probably were a part of that, or it could be that the car was just a slow starter.

Frankly, I am getting tired of all this Camaro crap, especially since as you have astutely noted numerous times, there is no Camaro program at GM that has gotten the green light and that we are still several years away from RWD vehicles.  GM can produce all the concepts they'd like, but that doesn't mean any of them will make production any time soon.

Honestly, what is this thread for?  Speculating on what a concept will look like?  Or a nonexistent production-spec Camaro "concept" like the AURA?

If we are talking about a real concept vehicle, then my bets are that it runs on baked beans, does my laundry for me, gets 95mpg with a 600hp V24 and 32sp transmission with DOD, cannot be dented or crashed, AND makes the perfect omelette every time.

[post="39816"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, this thread was about the concept and a couple of pages back you added that you didn't think a production Camaro would have a V6.

Why would you bother participating in a discussion that you're "tired" of? Not trying to pick a fight with you but, keep in mind that this isn't real life. You don't have to participate in any conversation that you don't want to. I know you're not a Camaro guy, no biggie. Just move on to a conversation you'd rather be a part of.

[Satty]

Dude, my sources tell me that the Monte Carlo name is going to be dropped for 2007 and that the current Monte will get the Camaro name and slightly redesigned taillights. Or not.

[Croc]

Why would you bother participating in a discussion that you're "tired" of? Not trying to pick a fight with you but, keep in mind that this isn't real life. You don't have to participate in any conversation that you don't want to. I know you're not a Camaro guy, no biggie. Just move on to a conversation you'd rather be a part of.

[post="39835"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Because I was enjoying it until certain people had to get childish about it. Kinda ruins it when you're pretty much called a moron despite having a good logical base behind your arguments. Whether it is the logical base GM chooses to follow or not, that remains to be seen. But to attack it as stupid simply because it isn't what one individual person thinks is kinda lame, and disheartening.

[guionM]

I am completely flabbergasted by some of the things I've read here. Just dumbfounded. It seems there are people hellbent on making sure the next Camaro ends up deader than a doornail..... PERMANENTLY!


Camaro ISN'T a niche vehicle. Never was, and never will be. There are some people who just simply go off the deep end, and think Camaro is some musclebound street terror. Hate to bust your bubble, but that's not quite what it is... is alot more.

Though it's probally enough to make some of you guys go into cardiac arrest with denial, Camaro came about because of Mustang. Camaro has always been an alternative to Mustang. That means Camaro matches Mustang model for model... including V6s.

There is zero to gain turning Camaro into a "niche" car. Anyone who thinks a $30K V8 Camaro is enough to keep it going, simply doesn't understand the business, or doesn't want to.

Niche vehicles are throwaway vehicles. It's a low cost, limited run vehicle whose development and production costs are cheaper than an advertizing campaign. The company typically expects to lose money on a niche vehicle. However, a nich vehicle has to be so far removed from the norm in the showroom that it in itself attracts traffic. Look at the Pontiac Solstice, Plymouth Prowler, Ford GT, or even the original Dodge Viper.

Halo vehicles serve the same purpose, but serve as something an entire car division centers around, ot is the top model in the showroom. Corvette is a halo car. So is Viper, GTO, and years ago, Thunderbird.

Camaro doesn't fit into any of these catagories. Camaro, like Mustang is a historic name. It's a sporty, great looking car that anyone from secretaries... excuse me, "executive assistants".... to pilots, to teachers, to weekend racers buy and enjoy.

I had a loaded '97 Z28, now I have a '02 B4C. I remember the owner and webmaster of GMI owned a 4th gen loaded V6 Camaro RS. My sister owns a V6 Camaro 5 speed that looks meaner than my car. A guy where I used to work at had a '02 V6 stick as his daily driver (and also owned a pretty impressive '72 Z28).

Nearly 60% of all Mustang sales are V6. Of that, about 55% are to men. The base Mustang price of $19K brings attention and massive numbers of buyers. They sit down and often sign up for $5Kor more in options. In short: they make as much or more money selling V6s than V8s!

V6s also serve as bridges, bringing in business for the V8 models (a well equpted V6 costs nearly as much as a GT).

A V8 only (or niche) Camaro will doom the car.

It will restrict it's appeal, limit it's market, cut it's profit potential by a minimum of 50% hurt corperate CAFE numbers, hurt it's image as an affordable sporty car, and will represent Camaro leaving it's heritage & history to appeal to a group of buyers who would have bought the car anyways.

Not smart, and not an idea that makes alot of sense.


To top it all off, Chevrolet already has a "halo" car..... the Corvette.

Camaro will have a standard V6. It will sell alot of 'em. Get over it. :ph34r:

:ph34r: :ph34r:

[turbo200]

Croc, I wasn't calling you a moron, I'm sorry if it came off like that. As guion put it though, you can't logically think a V8 Camaro will be the only trim level. Furthermore, you just can't walk around with that kind of swagger acting like you know everything about this car when you haven't doen enough research or clearly you don't know enough about the Camaro to make those kinds of claims. You say you don't hang off the words of evok, but then you hang off the words of ah-ha in the same exact post.

[Croc]

Firstly, any swagger that I "have" is in your head. These are words on a screen. Don't read so much into them. As for most of the "knowledge" I will be the first to admit I rarely have insider knowledge...I take what I DO get and make connections and apply logic. As for my referencing AH-HA...let me put it this way...in the ever changing auto world, what info is usually more accurate? That from last February, or that from 2 weeks ago, when both are from reliable sources and everything else is equal? Do you see why I put more credence into AH-HA's post than evok's? Things change quickly in this industry. As for anyone who is arguing that the Camaro is NOT a niche vehicle...you need your heads checked. Last time I looked, 2-doors were niche vehicles. Convertibles were niche vehicles. 2+2s were niche vehicles. Now put all of these niches together and suddenly we have a mainstream vehicle? Sorry, a Camaro is NOT a mainstream vehicle like the Impala, Malibu, TrailBlazer, or Tahoe.