Um, what?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

From the plan:

In addition, policies or incentives would be particularly helpful that promote ... tax credits for scrapping older, higher carbon-emitting vehicles.

WTF, man...

NOT cool!

[loki]

YAY Subsidies!!! /sarcasm

[Camino LS6]

That detail turned my stomach as well.

[staceface]

is that not the "car heaven" program already in place in canada?

[ZL-1]

It's just a Government-funded incentive to trade in older cars for new ones. Nobody's forcing anybody to turn their older cars, just providing an economic incentive to do so.

[z28luvr01]

This won't fly. In most cases, it'll make no financial sense, as the tax credit amount would likely be less than the value of the car.

[ZL-1]

This won't fly. In most cases, it'll make no financial sense, as the tax credit amount would likely be less than the value of the car.

Depends on the car. Re a 1969 Camaro you're 100% right, but with most other old cars (think stuff from the 1980s and early 1990s) it might make perfect financial sense.

[SAmadei]

I don't understand why GM would put this in the plan.

Is GM going to buy back old cars or are they proposing the government do it? As a taxpayer, I don't want to pay for that.

It's not going to help GM sell cars, unless they are going to start selling something that compares with a rusted out, oil burning 1986 Chevette for $300. People who still drive stuff like that aren't doing so to save wear and tear on their CTS-V in the garage.

The old car scrapping for tax credits programs in Cali have demonstrated there is NO pollution savings because the bulk of the cars scrapped haven't run in years and were sitting quietly in someone's back yard.

SEMA is going to fight it.

As a old car buff, if it came to be, I would boycott all future purchases by whatever companies were involved and would actively vote against the politicians involved.

[knightfan26917]

*shakes head*

I really do not like that idea, particularly because older cars are what I drive..........

But, as long as they are not FORCING anyone to do that.....

Cort | 35swm | "Mr Monte Carlo"."Mr Road Trip" | pig valve.pacemaker ...Chitown #2 = 07/25/09

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"No store bought gifts to open, but there'll be Christmas just the same" ... Kenny Rogers ... 'Kentucky Homemade Christmas'

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Nobody better try to force me to part with my 2. I dont really drive them that much other than summer. They arent hurting anything. I think it is partially an incentive to buy a new GM car. I already did that so they should be happy.

Edited December 11, 2008 by 2005 EquinoxLS

[Sixty8panther]

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!

Sickening.... it's one thing when the liberal d!%kless a$$-hats in California

attempt this twice a yer, seemingly, but this is unacceptable coming from

one of the Big Three.

The relatively abundant supply of old GM iron is what keeps me sane while

new cars suck more, and more...

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually all of the big thee supported the Cali Crusher laws IIRC.

Get ready, I'm sure Clunker laws will be here soon.

Chris

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

SEMA is going to fight it.

As a old car buff, if it came to be, I would boycott all future purchases by whatever companies were involved and would actively vote against the politicians involved.

I'm right there with you...

I don't think anything like this will ever fly, but if it does I hope SEMA fights it.

In other news, NC today is voting on a "fuel consumption tax"

Edited December 10, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[balthazar]

>>"The old car scrapping for tax credits programs in Cali have demonstrated there is NO pollution savings because the bulk of the cars scrapped haven't run in years and were sitting quietly in someone's back yard."<<

This is exactly why these types of bills have been defeated numerous times- they don't accomplish anything.

[gm4life]

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!

Sickening.... it's one thing when the liberal d!%kless a$$-hats in California

attempt this twice a yer, seemingly, but this is unacceptable coming from

one of the Big Three.

The relatively abundant supply of old GM iron is what keeps me sane while

new cars suck more, and more...

Right on the liberal kool-aid drinking tree huggers want to take away everything from Christmas to our history aka cool old cars. Up your ass you dirty bastards

[hyperv6]

I am not in favor of scrapping cars but I don't see this as a dire thing as it used to be.

First off they are not dealing with cars in good condtion for the most part.

Second your not going to have to give up your restored collector car.

Third Most junk yards do not have many collector cars just sitting around anymore. If the car is rare or special they either hang onto it or it never even makes it into the yard before someone buys it. Junk yard people are not stupid when it comes to making money.

Generally the cars this play are rusted out Honda Civic, smoking Caravans and cars most of us will never save or restore.

Even cars like many 4th Gen F bodies are not worth restoring as they cost more to fix than they are worth and so many have been taken care of and preserved that it will be just as easy in the future to buy one in good condition.

In the past many scrap yards hung onto to car for many years and many contained used up muscle cars as no one save them as collector cars back in the day. Today things are different and many stay on the roads or pampered in garages for years as collector cars from the day they left the dealer.

SEMA will keep an eye on this and if they ever get more progressive they will be stopped as the politicians will not want to lose the votes.

I used to love roaming junk yards in search of treasre but anymore all I find is scap as they have been picked clean. I have found in the past a 348 tri power 4 speed 1960 Impala, 57 Skyliner, 57 Seville, and at one place at least 15 Firedome Hemi cars with engines still in place. Sadly all are gone as are those junk yards too. I even found a Superbird at one. There are so many good cars I have found over the years but anymore I find nothing but junk at most today noting of value now or in the future. Everthing is late model that are picked clean as soon as they come in and most of the collector cars are either gone or they know what they have and will not sell or will sell at a great price.

I know we will hear the story of the Nova SS that went to a crusher somewhere but for the most part it will be a rare thing if it happens.

I still don't like the idea of killing cars but anymore most of the scap cars just are not worth keeping or fixing up anymore. Let alone many junk yard are willing to keep car just sitting anymore. They want to rotate inventory and get new cars in that will they can strip and make a profit.

I make my living in the perfromance aftermarket. I find few of my customers are getting cars or parts out of junk yards anymore. What few that do are street rod guys with late model drive trains that are pulled as soon as they come in.

Edited December 12, 2008 by hyperv6

[daves87rs]

Actually all of the big thee supported the Cali Crusher laws IIRC.

Get ready, I'm sure Clunker laws will be here soon.

Chris

Yep, they are considering that here........

And getting rid of junkyards all together (they would become "part places")

More money to be made, I guess....

[Sixty8panther]

>>"The old car scrapping for tax credits programs in Cali have demonstrated there is NO pollution savings because the bulk of the cars scrapped haven't run in years and were sitting quietly in someone's back yard."<<

This is exactly why these types of bills have been defeated numerous times- they don't accomplish anything.

except completely destroying parts cars

and erasing hundreds of future hot rods

and /or classic projects.

[FAPTurbo]

So? This means fewer smog spewing Celebrity's, and K-Car's on the road. Some of you guys are going way overboard with this.

[Satty]

NOOOOOO!!!!! I was going to hot rod those Celebrities and collect all those Aeries because they're SOOOOOOO valuable.

[Sixty8panther]

So? This means fewer smog spewing Celebrity's, and K-Car's on the road. Some of you guys are going way overboard with this.

Ummmm.... yeah. Also, like Balthy said:

Many a solid abandoned project car or parts car will be crushed.

Including '69 Chevelles, '71 Oldsmobiles, '55 Pontiacs, '61 Cadillacs

& maye even a '59 Buick or two....

[FAPTurbo]

I seriously doubt many project cars will go that way, what with eBay, Craigslist, and such. Plus, thanks to Barret Jackson, everyone with an old car suddenly thinks theirs is worth a million gajillion dollars, so they'll try to get top dollar for it anyway.

[daves87rs]

NOOOOOO!!!!! I was going to hot rod those Celebrities and collect all those Aeries because they're SOOOOOOO valuable.

I can't remember the last time I saw a Celebrity.....

[thegriffon]

That y'all are driving so many old cars is why GM is asking for the scrapping incentive. Also, the price of new cars is set to rise substantially and the only way to meet CAFE is to provide an incentive for people to buy newer, smaller cars, something the US government has never done. 30+ years of CAFE regulations and continually improving fuel economy, and CAFE has not budged. Without incentives people just buy bigger, less efficient cars and trucks, or keep the older, even less efficient and higher-polluting vehicles they already have. Automakers cannot improve CAFE buy improving fuel economy. Only governments have the power to improve CAFE, not by demanding it, but by creating policies that drive and/or entice people into smaller, newer vehicles.

[SAmadei]

That y'all are driving so many old cars is why GM is asking for the scrapping incentive. Also, the price of new cars is set to rise substantially and the only way to meet CAFE is to provide an incentive for people to buy newer, smaller cars, something the US government has never done. 30+ years of CAFE regulations and continually improving fuel economy, and CAFE has not budged. Without incentives people just buy bigger, less efficient cars and trucks, or keep the older, even less efficient and higher-polluting vehicles they already have. Automakers cannot improve CAFE buy improving fuel economy. Only governments have the power to improve CAFE, not by demanding it, but by creating policies that drive and/or entice people into smaller, newer vehicles.

The incentives Cali gives out are relatively small. You seriously think people trading in their smoking junker for $500 is going to then step into a new car dealership? They are driving a car worth less than $500 because they can't afford a $1000 car, let alone a new car. This does not help sell new cars.

Again, I don't want to pay for these junkers in exchange for pollution credits. The ONLY cars attracted by these programs are sitting unused because they are hopelessly broken and are NOT emitting air pollution or using gasoline. This is "green theatre" if we set up an aggressive CAFE requirements only to allow the car companies to defeat them.

In many states, especially the northeast, cars worth so little that it would be worthwhile to scrap them for the scrapping incentives are already legislated off the road by emission inspections. Cars that score you a $140 ticket for non-inspection are not driven much.

As a person who buys parts cars from time to time, I agree these programs destroy good, usable parts which are unavailable elsewhere. However, the price of steel is more of a factor here than any scrapping programs. Cali might give you $500 for your junker, but the scrapper will give you almost that much for a large car or truck.

If GM was seriously going to try to use this to force us to buy new cars... just kill off the parts aftermarket business. The stealerships are required to stock parts for cars for 9 years, from my understanding. After that, you would be out of luck... that would dry up used car stock _real_ fast. And it would prod the American sheeple to activity.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Ummmm.... yeah. Also, like Balthy said:

Many a solid abandoned project car or parts car will be crushed.

Including '69 Chevelles, '71 Oldsmobiles, '55 Pontiacs, '61 Cadillacs

& maye even a '59 Buick or two....

Or a 1981 Bonneville or a 1985 Caprice.

[balthazar]

If someone can afford new car payments and their 198x car is tired and nearly worthless- getting a tax credit for scrapping that car is all well & good, but prior state 'tax credit' drives have already proven that people will find parked junks and turn them in. Since the name of the game here is emissions & increased fuel economy, this accomplishes ZERO in that circumstance.

I would only be happy if this incentive tax credit 'scrap drive' would only accept running, licensed cars newer than 1980, because anything outside of that is just a cash grab that does nothing evironmentally, and any car outside of that is either already not running, or far too few in number to contribute anything.

[A Horse With No Name]

I would only be happy if this incentive tax credit 'scrap drive' would only accept running, licensed cars newer than 1980, because anything outside of that is just a cash grab that does nothing evironmentally, and any car outside of that is either already not running, or far too few in number to contribute anything.

I would agree...I think a lot of worthless or dangerous cars might end up off of the road. The $500 Mada 626 a drunk buys because he has 4 OMVI's and can't get a lic. or insurance...that kind of car would get crushed.

Chris