GM asks Congress to kickstart its heart with ambitious plan

[Intrepidation]

General Motors has just revealed the plan it has submitted to Congress today, and the details show just how far the largest U.S. automaker is willing to go in order to secure bridge loans from the federal government. The plan includes selling Saab, possibly killing Saturn and scaling back Pontiac, as well as reducing dealers and shedding more workers, among other things. Here's the breakdown...

• Focus on "core brands": Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac
• Launch predominately high mileage, energy-efficient cars and crossovers
• Sell Saab, HUMMER
• Sell or kill Saturn
• Reduce Pontiac to a "niche" brand
• Trim dealerships from 6,450 to 4,700
• Reopen talks with UAW to cut manufacturing costs further
• Reduce total workforce from 96,000 to 65-75,000
• Negotiate with lenders, remove $35.6 billion in debt

To do all this, GM is asking for a total of $18 billion in loans, which is considerably more than the $10-12 billion that CEO Rick Wagoner requested in front of Congress a few weeks ago. It needs $12 billion in loans by the end of next March to make it through the rest of 2009 and another $6 billion in revolving credit if conditions don't begin to improve by then. The troubled automaker also states that it needs $4 billion by the end of this month to continue operating and intends to start repaying the loans by 2011.

In exchange for government loans, GM is also open to a government oversight board that would monitor how the money is used, as well as giving taxpayers a stake in the company. Also, not only would Rick Wagoner get his salary dropped to $1, a number of other unnamed senior execs would get pay cuts, too.

Is it all enough? Sound off in the comments after reading the official press release from GM after the jump.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/gm-asks...ambitious-plan/

[Northstar]

I like this plan for the most part. I read that Buick would become Opel instead of Saturn; I'd rather Saturn have the Corsa, Astra, Sky, Vue and Buick get the SWB and LWB EPII's and a TE, but I suppose GM thinks it should make one brand (Buick) have a strong full model line, rather than two brands have strong half model lines.

Pontiac = Solstice, small Alpha, midsize Alpha, I hope.

Apparently GMC isn't on the chopping block, which makes sense and doesn't at the same time. The brand doesn't cost much to make products for, but at the same time the products are direct overlap with Chevy trucks.

The plan clearly is built around the dealers, if you think about it. It's easy enough to deal with the less than 500 Saturn, Saab, and Hummer dealers. It would be much harder to deal with the probably 1500 dealers that sell either Pontiac, Buick, GMC, or some combination of them.

[Intrepidation]

Those rooting for Pontiac should be happy that it appears to be spared being on the chopping black. Indeed, being a niche brand of a few very focused vehicles could be the best plsn ever for it.

[GMTruckGuy74]

In post #171 in this thread (http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...0&start=160), I attached the 37-page PDF file of the document GM submitted to Congress.

[Robert Hall]

Interesting...Buick is way more niche than Pontiac is now. Though I wonder what Pontiac sales # are compared to Buick if you factor out fleet #s.

Edited December 2, 2008 by moltar

[Robert Hall]

In post #171 in this thread (http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...0&start=160), I attached the 37-page PDF file of the document GM submitted to Congress.

Interesting..that should make good reading tonight.

[Drew Dowdell]

Interesting...Buick is way more niche than Pontiac is now. Though I wonder what Pontiac sales # are compared to Buick if you factor out fleet #s.

But we don't know entirely what is in the pipeline. It seems to me that Buick has far more growth potential with a chance at higher profits than Pontiac does.

[ZL-1]

Anyone know where I can find the Chrysler .pdf?

EDIT - found the Autoblog link... the document is, according to Chysler, "proprietary and confidential" but Autoblog published it anyway...

Edited December 2, 2008 by ZL-1

[Intrepidation]

Anyone know where I can find the Chrysler .pdf?

Not sure if they submitted it yet.

[Northstar]

I skimmed through quickly... GM plans to have 29 cars/crossovers and only 11 "trucks" come 2012. I'm trying to think what those trucks would be. Knowing we will have only GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac offering trucks (or at least I would assume so). Currently, those brands only have 12 trucks. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Colorado, Canyon, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, ESV, EXT, I believe are the only truck-based vehicles currently available besides the T360s and Hummers. "Crossovers" don't count. Perhaps the Canyon is going away...

Either way, it will be much more fun guessing the 29 cars (down from 31 today, but it sounds as if Saab isn't in the 29 and Pontiac's share will be reduced).

[Robert Hall]

Anyone know where I can find the Chrysler .pdf?

EDIT - found the Autoblog link... the document is, according to Chysler, "proprietary and confidential" but Autoblog published it anyway...

Well, Chrysler being a private company (unlike Ford and GM) I would expect them to keep it out of the public domain.

[Intrepidation]

Here you go ZL-1

http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?ac...stdate=0♦

[Robert Hall]

I skimmed through quickly... GM plans to have 29 cars/crossovers and only 11 "trucks" come 2012. I'm trying to think what those trucks would be. Knowing we will have only GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac offering trucks (or at least I would assume so). Currently, those brands only have 12 trucks. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Colorado, Canyon, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, ESV, EXT, I believe are the only truck-based vehicles currently available besides the T360s and Hummers. "Crossovers" don't count. Perhaps the Canyon is going away...

Either way, it will be much more fun guessing the 29 cars (down from 31 today, but it sounds as if Saab isn't in the 29 and Pontiac's share will be reduced).

14 trucks--don't forget the Express and Savanna.

I can see the Canyon going away..it's a pointless rebadge, and I could see the BOF Escalades going away if the next Escalade is Lambda based as has been rumored.

Well, SAAB has 2 cars, so if you cut them, you have 29. Does the 31 cars include crossovers?

[Camino LS6]

Read the whole thing, pretty impressive case made.

The devil will be in the details.

[gm4life]

Those rooting for Pontiac should be happy that it appears to be spared being on the chopping black. Indeed, being a niche brand of a few very focused vehicles could be the best plsn ever for it.

I am very happy indeed is this offical? As long as they live, and does this mean we will get rebadge Opels and Holdens along with some unique product? That is me reading between the lines if Saturn will get the axe. I like the sound of this plan I would focus GMC for commercial trucks (medium duty, and get rid of the Kodiak) and also luxury Denali models. This is frankly a good plan and I think GM can do it, so long as the core and old brands Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Pontiac all stay. Works for me. Thank God for Pontiac, even if they never make another SUV again (which maybe they shouldn't) I at least have mine and love it. :AH-HA_wink:

[gm4life]

I also would bet Pontiac will be focused more towards performance with one maybe two volume models like a G5/G6.

[Camino LS6]

We are back to a waiting game again before we really know what this means.

First we will have to wait for Congress.

Then for specifics from GM.

Don't count any chickens yet.

[hyperv6]

I can go for this plan as it was many here assumed already accept for the Pontiac Niche move. I discounted the niche ideas as I never though GM would go for it.

Saab is already for sales along with Hummer. Once things play out in DC look for both to sell quickly.

I still thing we will see Holdens and the Buick/Opel Insignia here as a new Buick. Lets face it they have some great Buicks in China that will sell her just fine.

The GMC is still something I think we could do without. I know they want to keep a truck in the Buick/Pontiac dealers but with less trucks being sold GMC will have to cover the crossovers.

The next question is will DC bite on this 18 Bill is asking alot. Also will GM stick to it's game and work together as one for once. They as we all know have been their own worst compitition/ememy.

[hyperv6]

We are back to a waiting game again before we really know what this means.

First we will have to wait for Congress.

Then for specifics from GM.

Don't count any chickens yet.

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

Edited December 2, 2008 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

Don't jinx it! :AH-HA_wink:

Seriously, I hope that this is the case.

Over at CZ28, GuionM suggested that GM give Holden Pontiac as a gift along with more independence.

That idea made my mouth water.

[gm4life]

Don't jinx it! :AH-HA_wink:

Seriously, I hope that this is the case.

Over at CZ28, GuionM suggested that GM give Holden Pontiac as a gift along with more independence.

That idea made my mouth water.

Would this mean we will still get them sold in US then go for it.

[Camino LS6]

That's just an idea of GiounM's not anything from GM.

[SAmadei]

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

IMHO, once Niche Pontiac became "cool", sales would push it right out of niche status... like in the '70s. Shame Olds couldn't have been transitioned into a niche.

I still like the idea of a G3 (or A segment) pocket rocket.

[Camino LS6]

IMHO, once Niche Pontiac became "cool", sales would push it right out of niche status... like in the '70s. Shame Olds couldn't have been transitioned into a niche.

I still like the idea of a G3 (or A segment) pocket rocket.

...and perhaps push Buick into a niche unless they perform miracles with that brand.

[mustang84]

Horray, Pontiac lives! Here's to hoping GM will finally revive them with the right product when things are more stable.

I am also pleasantly surprised to see Rick taking the $1 thing; I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting him to do it for some reason. These symbolic moves are what the Big Three need to do to win back public support.

[balthazar]

>>"Apparently GMC isn't on the chopping block, which makes sense and doesn't at the same time. The brand doesn't cost much to make products for, but at the same time the products are direct overlap with Chevy trucks"<<

"Overlap" does not matter now- it's all about the business case. GMC is the #2 division at GM saleswise and it's heavy profit. Killing it is like buying a new triplet of corporate jets.

Edited December 2, 2008 by balthazar

[titan]

Those rooting for Pontiac should be happy that it appears to be spared being on the chopping black. Indeed, being a niche brand of a few very focused vehicles could be the best plsn ever for it.

I agree 100% I'd rather have two or three niche products that true to the essence of Pontiac's focus than warmed over products lifted from other brands. Theoretically, Pontiac could be a real hot brand.

[Camino LS6]

That's the hope.

[titan]

...and perhaps push Buick into a niche unless they perform miracles with that brand.

I know it's hard to look past what's in the present and immediate future, but Buick's potenital is great. It won't take a miracle to turn Buick around. Just the right product, brand identity, and marketing, IMHO.

[Camino LS6]

I know it's hard to look past what's in the present and immediate future, but Buick's potenital is great. It won't take a miracle to turn Buick around. Just the right product, brand identity, and marketing, IMHO.

I see it as the tallest order in this plan. I really hope it works, but it will be tough.

[titan]

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

My thoughts exactly. It doesn't even mean they have to be gas guzzlers either. Just look at Lotus. Pontiac should have a next gen Soltice, and a larger RWD coupe that every light weight and a potent turbo inline four. If they're successful, maybe they could have Boxster or Cayman competitor... both are models I don't see Caddy every trying to compete directly against. They should stay focused on MB. As mentioned prior in this thread, I never thought that GM would even consider simply shrinking Pontiac and narrowing it's focus. IMO, it's a good thing; it liberates Pontiac to stay true to it's identity.

Edited December 3, 2008 by titan

[Camino LS6]

Buick should benefit if Acadia and Outlook both go away.

IMO, GM really sabotaged a hit when they built competition for Enclave.

[z28luvr01]

I see it as the tallest order in this plan. I really hope it works, but it will be tough.

Well, all future Buicks will be designed to sell in both the US and China, so essentially they'll be shedding either Buick-NA or Buick-China (depending on how you look at it). We should reserve final judgement until we see the LaCrosse in the flesh, but i don't think that turning Buick around is that big a deal.

[z28luvr01]

Buick should benefit if Acadia and Outlook both go away.

IMO, GM really sabotaged a hit when they built competition for Enclave.

Yeah, having the Acadia and Enclave in the same showroom was a dumb move. My personal belief is that they should follow through with an open-bed Lambda and make that the next-gen Acadia.

[Camino LS6]

Yeah, having the Acadia and Enclave in the same showroom was a dumb move. My personal belief is that they should follow through with an open-bed Lambda and make that the next-gen Acadia.

Interesting idea.

A quasi replacement for both the Canyon and the H3T?

[z28luvr01]

Yes, and an Avalanche-style vehicle that I've always felt should've gone to GMC instead of Caddy.

[gm4life]

Pontiac will get smaller seriously, but I doubt there future will be without a volume model like the G6, but expect a G8, Solstice and a sports coupe as well. That would be a Pontiac I think many could get excited about.

[Camino LS6]

OK, so add the Escalade EXT to the list of replaced vehicles.

That works.

[ocnblu]

Well, I'm glad GM listened to us. I expect my dollar in the mail soon. :AH-HA_wink:

Sell SAAB and Hummer, get rid of the Saturn brand. Refocus and distill Pontiac. All excellent idears. I am thankful to hear Pontiac will stay... I can see Pontiac having a Delta II with maybe three bodystyles (two and four door hatch and hardtop convertible) and an Alpha with four (2 seat roadster, coupe, sedan and sport wagon). Buick should remain FWD soft luxury, with a Delta II sedan (and maybe even a Skyhawk-style coupe), Epsilon II LaCrosse, Epsilon II LWB sedan, and Enclave in some form.

Multiple bodystyles on fewer platforms is the way to go, I believe... and it is a return to the GM that was successful back in the days of primarily selling A- and B-bodies, each with multiple bodystyles to fit different buyers.

Now I just hope Congress does the right thing.

Edited December 3, 2008 by ocnblu

[deftonesfan867]

Wait...didn't PCS tell us to enjoy our Pontiacs while we can? bahahahaha

[HarleyEarl]

First, I'm not in favor of baleouts by the government. It will just prolong the end.

To me, if a company like GM who claims to be in such serious trouble, this doesn't

seem like the right plan for the times.

Amazed they would keep GMC when they have Chevrolet trucks.

Pontiac simply is not needed.

[Camino LS6]

Wait...didn't PCS tell us to enjoy our Pontiacs while we can? bahahahaha

And we will. :AH-HA_wink:

[deftonesfan867]

Maybe Pontiac will become what I said it should be. I would buy one for damn sure.

[Camino LS6]

First, I'm not in favor of baleouts by the government. It will just prolong the end.

To me, if a company like GM who claims to be in such serious trouble, this doesn't

seem like the right plan for the times.

Amazed they would keep GMC when they have Chevrolet trucks.

Pontiac simply is not needed.

You're a great guy HE, but I disagree with you on all points.

Given the circumstances.

[daves87rs]

There's just soemthing I do not like about that plan after reading it..

While it is not bad, I feel like they missed something....

[Drew Dowdell]

The next question is will DC bite on this 18 Bill is asking alot.

18 Billion is nothing compared to what DC has passed out to AIG, Citi, and the rest. 18 Billion is 1.8 months of Iraq war.

Edit: And in the case of GM, the government ACTUALLY HAS A CHANCE TO GET THE MONEY BACK!

[Sixty8panther]

Long live Pontiac.

NAU KAN I HAS 100% RWD LINEUP!?

(although I was expecting Pontiac to get the Opel Connection)

Read the whole thing, pretty impressive case made.

The devil will be in the details.

If those retarded, bribe-taking limousine-riding

fu+*puppets in DC actually READ it.

[Sixty8panther]

Harley,

How can you say that?

You always SEEMED like a true GM fan in the past.

18 Billion is nothing compared to what DC has passed out to AIG, Citi, and the rest. 18 Billion is 1.8 months of Iraq war.

Now that you put it like that, GM should get $50 Billion. (not kidding!)

[HarleyEarl]

You're a great guy HE, but I disagree with you on all points.

Given the circumstances.

Trust me, in my perfect world, I would have all GM brands intact, including Oldsmobile. I'm a huge GM fan both past and present.

In such serious economic times, I'd rather have a drastically pared down GM, then it not exist.

It's just reality.

If GM gets this government assistance, it will eventually cease to exist.

[Camino LS6]

Trust me, in my perfect world, I would have all GM brands intact, including Oldsmobile. I'm a huge GM fan both past and present.

In such serious economic times, I'd rather have a drastically pared down GM, then it not exist.

It's just reality.

If GM gets this government assistance, it will eventually cease to exist.

Without this assistance, GM would be gone by New Years.

Read the whole plan, they are paring down dramatically.