If you still have any doubt a Camaro is coming...

[hyperv6]

I know this car is not a lock and will state that now, any car can be cut right up till it hits the show room. With things the way they are now at GM, they needs to worry about the high profit bread and butter cars and trucks first. But a concept is the first step and things are better for it to happen than the past few years. I am looking for a great reaction in Detroit and an anouncment that the buisness plan has been made and approved soon after. Look for things to move faster after Detroit. Second I have as feeling this thing is farther along than many think or want to believe. Most of GM's show cars preceed the production car 12-18 months. I wouls not be suprised to see a GTO by Chicago. Also look for the Camaro to made sightings in Germany testing after the first of the year when GM makes their first trip over. All the hiding and cover will start to clear in 2007. Most of GM's concepts have been 70-85% productionwith examples of the Sky, Soltice, G6 and Aura being good examples. I expect Concept we will see will be much of what we can expect or 80% of production status. I also second that GM needs more people like Scott a true car guy. If it was not for Scott efforts over the last 3 years I dought there would be a concept this year. Unlike many others he never gave up. Edited November 6, 2005 by hyperv6

[nzr]

GM isnt saying anything yet.

The invitiation simply stated.... "Chevrolet will be unveiling several new models at the North American International Auto Show at Cobo Hall in Detroit, Michigan"

[post="39037"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ah ok thanks. Last thing question to clear something up..GM(or fbodfather) only sent that statement to Camaro enthusiasts, which is what leads us to believe that this will indeed be the debut of a Camaro right?

[ChrisL]

Ah ok thanks.  Last thing question to clear something up..GM(or fbodfather) only sent that statement to Camaro enthusiasts, which is what leads us to believe that this will indeed be the debut of a Camaro right?

[post="39054"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It would be difficult to dispute drawing such a conclusion.

That being said, I really need to reitierate there has been no public confirmation, nor has GM, nor Scott, said anything specific about the vehicles being debued.

[nzr]

It would be difficult to dispute drawing such a conclusion.

That being said, I really need to reitierate there has been no public confirmation, nor has GM, nor Scott, said anything specific about the vehicles being debued.

[post="39066"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hmm yes. But it makes you wonder why Camaro enthusiasts where selected to see whatever it is. I mean it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for them to go/see the debut of a future Aveo or any non-sport car for that matter.

[Croc]

Hmm yes.  But it makes you wonder why Camaro enthusiasts where selected to see whatever it is.  I mean it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for them to go/see the debut of a future Aveo or any non-sport car for that matter.

[post="39069"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But it would be funny as hell

[nzr]

But it would be funny as hell

[post="39071"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Haha yeah

[evok]

I know this car is not a lock and will state that now, any car can be cut right up till it hits the show room. With things the way they are now at GM, they needs to worry about the high profit bread and butter cars and trucks first.

But a concept is the first step and things are better for it to happen than the past few years. I am looking for a great reaction in Detroit and an anouncment that the buisness plan has been made and approved soon after.  Look for things to move faster after Detroit. 

Second I have as feeling this thing is farther along than many think or want to believe. Most of GM's show cars preceed the production car 12-18 months. I wouls not be suprised to see a GTO by Chicago. Also look for the Camaro to made sightings in Germany testing after the first of the year when GM makes their first trip over. All the hiding and cover will start to clear in 2007.

Most of GM's concepts have been 70-85% productionwith examples of the Sky, Soltice, G6 and Aura being good examples. I expect Concept we will see will be much of what we can expect  or 80% of production status.

I also second that GM needs more people like Scott a true car guy. If it was not for Scott efforts over the last 3 years I dought there would be a concept this year.
Unlike many others he never gave up.

[post="39048"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As of Friday any real program was STILL on hold.

[knightfan26917]

The invitiation simply stated.... "Chevrolet will be unveiling several new models at the North American International Auto Show at Cobo Hall in Detroit, Michigan"

Several new models?

Hmmm...would be nice if a brand new Monte Carlo would be one of those ;).


Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what debuts at the 2006 shows....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[NOS2006]

Several new models?

Hmmm...would be nice if a brand new Monte Carlo would be one of those ;).
Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what debuts at the 2006 shows....
Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[post="39108"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'd guess a Camaro and the trucks. Doubt there'd be a MC.

[knightfan26917]

I'd guess a Camaro and the trucks. Doubt there'd be a MC.

Sadly, that'd be my guess, too :(.

[Chicagoland]

The old 1967-81 F bodies were not true BOF cars. They had a front subframe like the X body RWD Novas. Now as for 1982-2002, I claim ignorance, I should know if they have a sub frame, but someone else can fill in the blank.

[hyperv6]

As of Friday any real program was STILL on hold.

[post="39097"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Note I said after the reaction in Detroit I expect the buisness case to be made and approved. Then your hold for production would be removed. The concept is only the first step here. The same thing here went on for the Solstice but with less lead time.

I rather dought if they had no intentions of building the car that they would show a show car Camaro in Detroit. That would only be twisting the knife. The Camaro supporters at GM are not that dumb.

Though once approval is given the program will move fast very fast.

Were you the one posting not long ago there was not going to be a concept at Detroit?


As for the last post te 3rd and 4th Gen were unibodies too. They just used a more intergrated [subframe Smaller and lighter] than the 1st and 2nd gen.

[ehaase]

Even though the fellows at the Camaro Z28 board are interesting and know a lot of things, I trust Evok over any of them. If the Camaro does return, I think it will be part of a program that will also result in some RWD sedans about the size of Chrysler's LX cars. I don't think that GM will design a platform just for a Camaro as Ford did for the Mustang. The Camaro is not the iconic car for Chevrolet that the Mustang is for Ford and probably would not achieve the same amount of sales, in my opinion. When was the last year that the Camaro outsold the Mustang?

[nzr]

Even though the fellows at the Camaro Z28 board are interesting and know a lot of things, I trust Evok over any of them. 

If the Camaro does return, I think it will be part of a program that will also result in some RWD sedans about the size of Chrysler's LX cars.  I don't think that GM will design a platform just for a Camaro as Ford did for the Mustang.  The Camaro is not the iconic car for Chevrolet that the Mustang is for Ford and probably would not achieve the same amount of sales, in my opinion.  When was the last year that the Camaro outsold the Mustang?

[post="39282"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Camaro outsold Mustang in 1977, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, and finally in 1991. Camaro's best year was in 1979 with 282,571 units.

[Chazman]

Even though the fellows at the Camaro Z28 board are interesting and know a lot of things, I trust Evok over any of them. 

If the Camaro does return, I think it will be part of a program that will also result in some RWD sedans about the size of Chrysler's LX cars.  I don't think that GM will design a platform just for a Camaro as Ford did for the Mustang.  The Camaro is not the iconic car for Chevrolet that the Mustang is for Ford and probably would not achieve the same amount of sales, in my opinion.  When was the last year that the Camaro outsold the Mustang?

[post="39282"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Can't argue with what you say ehaase, but let me add.....

1) There is A program at A certain stage.

2) I expect things to start getting more transparent and more official soon.

3) Yes, a new Camaro would (and will) need to share it's architecture with other cars.

[Sixty8panther]

These are not going some rednecks with a jacked up 74 Camaro LT with bad neon lights and cheesey stripes! If your expecting that you need to wise up. They are major club leaders, Camaro collectors and historians and people from the after market like GMMG the builders of some of the best F bodies ever put together. I would not be suprised if Vic Edlebrock make the show since he has some of the rarest Camaros around and will help supply parts for the new ones. 

[post="38991"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's pretty much waht I was about to say after reading some peoples fears of the clueless public's reactions/comments. Vic has Smokey Yunick's '68 Trans Am Camaro for just starters.... like Hyper said the kind of people invited to this will not be driving riced out '82s wiht the 2.8/auto.

I for one feel the more Camaro enthusiasts have input the better. Not the "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario but just give the peoepl working on the car a feel of what a Camaro is to them. The Vietnam vets who came home in 1968 after hell on earth in a swamp and bought a '69 SS396 and were there in the Showroom sitting next to ZL1 #44 while waiting for an oil change. Those enthusiasts and collectors are the ones that have the most positive input IMHO.

The new Camaro at GM has been just called THE CAR with in GM and the Camaro name has not been tied to it. This is part of the reason why things have been so tight on the name.

That's awsome!!! Just like with the Knight Rider episode where we found out that KITT has a evil older twin called KARR. The Camaro IS the Car. The only one that matters at Chevrolet other than the Vette. The Malibu, Impala and Monte have been so bastardized they've lost their soul. Perhaps a TRUE Camaro can return some of the former glory lost by the bowtie division since the 70s/80s/90s.

[Sixty8panther]

The old 1967-81 F bodies were not true BOF cars. They had a front subframe like the X body RWD Novas.

[post="39257"][/post]

With the exception of the missing trans. cross member this is IT for the Camaro subframe.

http://www.northwestautofab.com/images/69_camaro_7_big.jpg




Nothing that would or could be called a full frame. It's a lot more simillar to teh subframe in my STS than any Full frame car I've ever owned.

For what it's worth the 3rd and 4th gen. F-bodys are for all intents & purposes Unibody.

[nzr]

What is BOF?

[Chicagoland]

OK, thanks for clarifying about subframes. BOF is full chassis frame separate from bodyshell. A sporty car like a Camaro is too small for BOF, that is why the F's had a subframe. More than likely any new Camaro will be a unibody like the CTS.

[ShadowDog]

The time between now and the show is too long to have to keep reading the same recycled thoughts and opinions. Until there's a visual something-or-other to look and read about, it's just another Camaro thread.

[nzr]

OK, thanks for clarifying about subframes.

BOF is full chassis frame separate from bodyshell.

A sporty car like a Camaro is too small for BOF, that is why the F's had a subframe.

More than likely any new Camaro will be a unibody like the CTS.

[post="39444"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks

[91z4me]

As of Friday any real program was STILL on hold.

[post="39097"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

evok please keep your finger on that pulse. It means a lot to a lot of us. -Thanks.

[Guest Josh]

Let me clarify my statement: General Motors has far from approved any Camaro for production, in fact it's still nothing more than a drawing on a board with the possibility it *might* be in clay. That said, putting 250 "yahoos" (not my word) in the same presence as a Camaro "concept" (which from what I understand, this concept will not point a whole lot towards a production vehicle) and you've got a bad combination. The company is looking to stir talk and positive talk at that. Great, all the more reason to. However, a "screening" on a vehicle that has yet to have been green-lighted, and could very easily be cancelled is just bad business. Factor this. How many times have we heard the Camaro is on, oh wait, it's off. Wait, back on again. Now, apparently there's a "concept" of it scheduled to debut in Detroit? Peoples hopes are up, their telling their friends. A new "Camaro" will be shown in Detroit... Now, as quickly as things change with the General (and we all know they change TOO MUCH!) from day to day....and you're lighting a potential wildfire of negative publicity on a company that does not need it, especially now. That is my point, and that is what I should have said originally. I'm happy people were invited, hell hopefully I'll get my press credentials re-instated. Not counting on it, but I'd like to think we're valued a little more to GM than is being lead on.

[regfootball]

considering how long the solstice took from concept to production, even if a new Cam was unveiled Jan 06, I think you'd realistically not be seeing it for sale til CY 2009.

[knightfan26917]

Just like with the Knight Rider episode where we found out that KITT has a evil older twin called KARR.

*grins*

That was an awesome episode ... it was rather, uh, "cool" to see the opposite of KITT...he he he.

*sighs*

If only cars were like KITT, though....

The Malibu, Impala and Monte have been so bastardized they've lost their soul.

That is just cold. On Chevy's part, that is.

Funny thing is that we hear/read so often that Chevrolet doesn't care what common people/enthusiasts think...so, why have 250 or so Camaro enthusiasts come to view a potential new Camaro? Why leave those of us who are enthusiasts of the Impala, Malibu and Monte Carlo out in the cold? Literally out in the cold.

*shakes head*

Sure hope this doesn't backfire on GM....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done' Edited November 7, 2005 by knightfan26917

[turbo200]

considering how long the solstice took from concept to production, even if a new Cam was unveiled Jan 06, I think you'd realistically not be  seeing it for sale til CY 2009.

[post="39644"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The argument against this thinking is that GM has already done plenty of work on the Sigma-lite chassis that would be serving the Camaro and sedans. Lots more work than we think has been done to on the Camaro; a 5th gen design has been cliniced already!!! It's very possible, and from guion's statements over on CZ28 GM should be back in the volume RWD business in 36 months. It's too large of a market to ignore! RWD means profit. Look at the 300 and the pricing it can achieve, it actually realisitcally sells above 30k unlike the Lacrosse which just MSRPs for that. 300, Mustang, Magnum and Charger sales have proven that customers will accept RWD as long as the wrapper is attractive and the car is a well thought out design. It's always always always been about engineering, quality, and design. This should never have changed. RWD or FWD, it doesn't matter. RWD is inherently more fun though and it has more design potential.

[evok]

Note I said after the reaction in Detroit I expect the buisness case to be made and approved. Then your hold for production would be removed. The concept is only the first step here. The same thing here went on for the Solstice but with less lead time.

I rather dought if they had no intentions of building the car that they would show a show car Camaro in Detroit. That would only be twisting the knife. The Camaro supporters at GM are not that dumb.

Though once approval is given the program will move fast very fast.

Were you the one posting not long ago there was not going to be a concept at Detroit?
As for the last post te 3rd and 4th Gen were unibodies too. They just used a more intergrated [subframe Smaller and lighter] than the 1st and 2nd gen.

[post="39278"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have never said a word about a concept Camaro. Yes "IF" GM gives the GMX &^1 program the green light, fast track still means app. 30 months until SOP. The RFQ's are not even out there yet. For any RWD program.

For those that can't do the math - that is CY 2009. Edited November 7, 2005 by evok

[AAS]

For those that can't do the math - that is CY 2009.

[post="39871"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ouch! That's a while away... Well, the only upside is, by that time I can save up enough $$ for 2 Camaros :)

[NOS2006]

I've been saying for at least a year now that I'll own a 2010 Camaro. Because it'll probably be out '09.

[91z4me]

...GMX &^1 program ..

[post="39871"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Are we typing in code or did you use symbols to signify that no GMX code has been given? I thougth GMX 284 was the number assigned to it.

[evok]

Are we typing in code or did you use symbols to signify that no GMX code has been given?  I thougth GMX 284 was the number assigned to it.

[post="39913"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:o

[Cory Wolfe]

What? GMX 761?? :huh: Or am I just retarded? Anyways, why was I happy in my earlier postings? I don't hear of any Pontiac version...

[nzr]

[guionM]

Honestly none of those 250 people should be there during press days. There are enough actual working media there from all over the world to make press days an absolute mob scene. That's all thats needed is 250 additional yahoos getting in the way and filling up press conferences that are already so packed its a human car wash.

[post="38830"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yahoos, huh? :angry:

[guionM]

I have never said a word about a concept Camaro.  Yes "IF" GM gives the GMX &^1 program the green light, fast track still means app. 30 months until SOP.  The RFQ's are not even out there yet.  For any RWD program.

For those that can't do the math - that is CY 2009.

[post="39871"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They seem pretty certain about that 18 month from approval timeframe. They point to this time last year being the decision point for 2008MY cars, so it seems they think it can be done quicker.

They also seem pretty certain about that 2009MY.


nzr, that schedule is obsolete. The entire "zeta" line is delayed for a minimum of 1 1/2 years, so Grand Prix and GTO scheduled are toast. XTS has been moved back again, and doesn't seem likely to happen, at least before 2010MY.


blackviper8891, not 761.

[turbo200]

guion, it's unfortunate the XTS was pushed back again, especially possibly after 2010, Cadillac really needs this car to complete the three sedan lineup. Thanks for keeping us hopeful regarding the approval time of RWD programs, I'll keep thinking the most positive thing.

[evok]

They seem pretty certain about that 18 month from approval timeframe. They point to this time last year being the decision point for 2008MY cars, so it seems they think it can be done quicker.

[post="39947"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You have to understand the VDP timing to understand the 18 month time frame. I can assure you that if approved today it will not be on the market in 18 months. Whoever gave you that information does not understand the process. Add another 6-12 month bare minimum if the project is given the green light right now. Yes, GM is on a 18/24 month VDP, that does not mean this program is at the point to start that clock. The machine, the huge machine has not been set in motion. It will take time for the inertia to be over come once green lighted. I know first hand what the process is.

[nzr]

Here's my take, expect nothing and if they show us something, we'll all be happy.  As it stands, I'm very doubtful there will be a Camaro concept this year.

[post="39956"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But then why is Scott inviting 250 selected enthusiests to witness "2 new Chevrolet vehicles" before the Detroit show opens to the public? I don't understand why that type of crowd would be gatherd to see, oh say..the next gen Aveo or Malibu.

[Cadillacfan]

I wonder why there is so much hype for the upcoming Camaro being at the auto shows when there is no definitive proof there is one. I remember someone here saying they were working on the clay model very recently. Unless they want to surprise everyone like Lutz did in creating Solstice concept in record time, I agree with AH-HA in guessing that the Camaro will not show up this year. They wouldn't want to disappoint anyone so they'll give it time.

[Raybob9289]

What is this?

[Raybob9289]

[post="39927"][/post]

What is this?

[turbo200]

it's a very old, outdated listing of GM's upcoming products. Most of the information listed is incorrect, there will be no GMC envoy XUV or XL for example, and the refresh will be coming but maybe later than the date listed.

[guionM]

I wonder why there is so much hype for the upcoming Camaro being at the auto shows when there is no definitive proof there is one.  I remember someone here saying they were working on the clay model very recently.  Unless they want to surprise everyone like Lutz did in creating Solstice concept in record time, I agree with AH-HA in guessing that the Camaro will not show up this year.  They wouldn't want to disappoint anyone so they'll give it time.

[post="39975"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And the world is flat because I've never seen it from space, and the sun revolves around the earth, and the moon landing was fake.

There's this thing called "Probable Cause". There's enough probale cause here to drown you.

This is November 7th. How many times have you heard any automaker giving advanced "official" or "definitive" proof of a car they are going to unveil at an auto show? Especially this far in advance!

Saturn Sky and Aura were complete surprises. So was the Shelby Cobra. Buick Velite was as well. Every single car that comes out at an autoshow that isn't production immenent isn't going to have advance press or official statements.

Even if you don't believe me and the souces I have, Fbodfather is about as far inside "Camaro" as you can get without being a structral stamping of the thing. He has all but written things in blood.

My God, man!

He and GM has combed Camaro enthusiast websites to pick 250 people to travel to Detroit for a "special presentation". Z28.com, a site that has been oversensitive to any mention of any rwd Chevrolet coupe has had it on their front page for weeks. There's plenty of other things that indicates a Camaro in the works.


Let's play a game.

Let's see who'd put money against a Camaro being unveiled. :lol:

[nzr]

Should be interesting to see what happens then. Edited November 8, 2005 by nzr

[hyperv6]

Just to confirm that some of the people invited have already been notified so it is a done deal it is being shown. The showing will be the Monday before the show opens [not sure of the date] to the public, so look for news on the Camaro to hit that Monday night and Tuesday morning. GM should have most of the info release by then.

[AAS]

Just to confirm that some of the people invited have already been notified so it is a done deal it is being shown.

The showing will be the Monday before the show opens [not sure of the date] to the public, so look for news on the Camaro to hit that Monday night and Tuesday morning.  GM should have most of the info release by then.

[post="40417"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Excellent! Any way I can be put on that list?

So, contrary to what I heard from a dealer... the concept will not be shown in LA.

[hyperv6]

No it will be a Detroit show car only. I will guess it will make a few other shows later but I am sure what one's. That is all to be determind later. I have a hunch this will be a big roll out and really something to see. But that should go without saying. But I think it will over shadow thw C6 roll out a few years back and it was a big deal.

[ChrisL]

No it will be a Detroit show car only. I will guess it will make a few other shows later but I am sure what one's.

[post="40426"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Detroit debut, and it most likely will be at some of the larger shows following.

[Sixty8panther]

Less than 10 weeks away! Can't wait!!!! :)

[AAS]

The showing will be the Monday before the show opens [not sure of the date] to the public...

[post="40417"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Just want to make sure...

The concept will be shown to a select few on Monday. Will the Camaro then be displayed to the public begining from the official opening of the show, or will GM re-introduce it sometime later during the week?