GM Studies Killing Saab, Saturn, Pontiac

[A Horse With No Name]

Yup, the Solstice is the better looking of the two roadsters, with its pure Pontiac look, it is sensuous, romantic and sporty, what a small sports car should be... seductive. The upcoming Solstice coupe is one of the best looking cars ever to wear the arrowhead, imo. And the G6 has stood up well, with a unique coupe and hardtop convertible bodystyle, the Aura cannot match it for style.

I would agree with you.

Solstice coupe=automotive sex on wheels....

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Anyone else see the historic-thru-today Opel experiment just isn't working ?

In other words, a badge-jobbed Opel Pontiac is not raising my hopes any.

Agreed.

Chris

[thenewdamage]

You guys really think the Solstice is better looking than the Sky? Just a personal opinion but I always thought the Solstice butt ugly...actually the front end sorta reminds me of a big fat butt, lol. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Hell, some people like Azteks too I hear.

[ZL-1]

You guys really think the Solstice is better looking than the Sky? Just a personal opinion but I always thought the Solstice butt ugly...actually the front end sorta reminds me of a big fat butt, lol. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Hell, some people like Azteks too I hear.

There are Aztek owners here. At least one Aztek owner.

I like the Solstice but I do prefer the Sky.

EDIT - re the thread's main issue, it seems the axe has begun to swing: linkitypoo

Edited December 8, 2008 by ZL-1

[AAS]

But the next Astra will borrow many styling cues from the Insignia, which is a curvy-er design that translated well (IMHO) into the Chinese Buick Regal. So who knows? The NG might work out just fine as a Buick.

Good point! After posting that last comment I started to think how the new Astra could be like a mini-Enclave (spy shots have shown curvy front and back fenders), which could look pretty good.

[Chicagoland]

Is not the new Chevy Cruze going to share platforms with the Astra? So what is the point of importing Astra other than it being assembled in Europe?

[ZL-1]

Good point! After posting that last comment I started to think how the new Astra could be like a mini-Enclave (spy shots have shown curvy front and back fenders), which could look pretty good.

Check the Insignia out: except for the silly side 'vents' (should have had Enclave-style portholes on the hood), it looks pretty good wearing Buick badges! Linkitypoo

@ Chicagoland: the point is, as the American consumer moves away from larger cars, some will prefer premium features in smaller cars. It is the emergence of a Europe-like the premium small car market in the US where traditionally small=cheap in the minds of consumers.

Edited December 8, 2008 by ZL-1

[Robert Hall]

Is not the new Chevy Cruze going to share platforms with the Astra? So what is the point of importing Astra other than it being assembled in Europe?

Well, the Cruze will be the bread-and-butter mass market compact while the Astra will be a bit upmarket from it, different styling, more bodystyles and content, I presume.

[turbo200]

Check the Insignia out: except for the silly side 'vents' (should have had Enclave-style portholes on the hood), it looks pretty good wearing Buick badges! Linkitypoo

@ Chicagoland: the point is, as the American consumer moves away from larger cars, some will prefer premium features in smaller cars. It is the emergence of a Europe-like the premium small car market in the US where traditionally small=cheap in the minds of consumers.

something everybody's missed is that we're pretty much already there. not too long ago, before the current gen civic was released or right around that time, honda quietly announced it'd be increasing the prices on all its redesigned models, set to go for a more premium image. the deal was definitely felt with civic, that car moved up to a $17k-23k range [top for the hybrid model, base civic DX doesn't count since it doesn't come with AC, CD, more than 2 speakers or power windows/locks]. civic hybrid at $23k sells more than 30k/units this year, more in a good year. civic has a premium feel thanks to good, progressive design and incredible for the price engineering. however material richness and design could stand to be more attractive....this is where room exists for someone else to steal the thunder.

of course honda has tons of built in equity thanks to a legendary image of practicality, quality, efficiency, and durability. someone else to rock this market would need to come in at a lower price with a better product, something revolutionary with a fantastic design.

my point is, looking at pricing for Jetta, Corolla, Civic especially we are already there in the premium compact market. with room for change as well

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I think I see things coming full-circle with the Buick-Opel connection-remember Buick used to sell German-built imported Opels from about the late 1950's until 1975? Then, the Buick Opel by Isuzu, built in Japan from 1976-80 (which then was transferred to Isuzu as the first I-Mark of 1981-84, similar to the Chevrolet Chevette but far less known). But anyway, of course, as of late Saturn's latest purpose has been to be the American arm of Opel/Vauxhall products, or at least on its way to it for the most part. It would stink to see Saturn's mission be folded, but if it does, most of them could become Buick's easily, maybe more distinguished a bit in styling, cause Opel's for the most part aren't bad looking, but they don't hold a bold candle to the likes of Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, or even the latest Kinetic Design Fords in Europe (or other global stalwarts)-the Insignia's a fine looking car (if not a little odd in the rear windows/doors), but they need to step it up more in styling.

And of course, the Insignia-based Regal is all there too-its not much different from Insignia other than grille and such, but how's chances of that being rushed into the North American line if Saturn is shut down?

And I suspect lots of Pontiacs are about to get axed in order to meet the 40-vehicle North American goal by 2012-some more niche vehicles/small cars (more for Chevy) would be nice though...

[regfootball]

But the next Astra will borrow many styling cues from the Insignia, which is a curvy-er design that translated well (IMHO) into the Chinese Buick Regal. So who knows? The NG might work out just fine as a Buick.

the whole point, a person like me does not want a Buick.

OR a chevy.

and cannot afford a cadillac.

Pontiac or Saturn, I'll bite. GM is screwing the pooch, but it appears saturn is gone and pontiac will be put in a coma for awhile to appease the critics.

NFW can i drive a buick astra.

[turbo200]

i think we ought to give GM a chance to show what it can come up with. I'd like to see thier vision for what a new Buick premium compact, Astra, would look like. I know a premium Delta compact is already in the works for Buick China though, so how does that really make sense to have yet again overlapping product plans for the same basic product and going after the same basic market segment?

I beleive Buick will make fine use of Opel's upcoming design language. But I hope it only really applies to already developed cars like the Insignia. The rest can have a more Buick forward fashion look to them. I really liked the Riviera concept; I think it's precisely the bold thinking that should become Buick in order for them to make a splash. But I don't think that exact car really fits Buick's persona, both of the past, present, and where I think it should be headed in the future given its heritage.

This is the important point. I believe compact cars with a sporting character are much more applicable at Pontiac. this is why I wish Corsa and Astra with engaging styling will cement a new Pontiac premium sports car division. astra at the saturn division is really a good model of what a pontiac should look like. it has a basic model that is still premium in looks and feel, while maintaining an aggressive feel. i beleive astra in order to be a pontiac should have a more premium interior, the materials are already top notch, but the style needs to have more pizazz for what i think pontiac should be. the exterior also should have slightly more aggressive overtones, with no plastic wheeels/wheel covers.

i honestly think the astra served as a pontiac could be selling over 100k units......perhaps up to 160-180k.

but of everything the most important thing going forward is that GM start to really develop a coherent design theme for these brands that is fitting with the past, that gets to the core of the history these makes have. more important than jumping the gun and importing the corsa here is making sure we get the right looking corsa, or whatever to make a splash at pontiac.

[cire]

Aside from the Corsa, I think you'll see most Opels being badged as Buicks in the US rather than Pontiacs, including the Astra.

I partially agree. I see Buick receiving the sedans, crossovers, and MPVs, which fit in with the more "mature" image of the brand. I see Pontiac receiving the Corsa/Astra hatchbacks, which fit in better with Pontiac's brand image (the "TwinTops" would fit in with Pontiac's image too, but the current struggles of both the corporation and the economy will more than likely discourage GM from bringing them here).

IF GM keeps Pontiac going, it will probably be more of a sporty entry premium sub-brand instead of the affordable performance niche brand that LaNeve claims it will be.

I see the lineups possibly looking like this:

BUICK: Premium volume division.

* Electra: Compact electric-hybrid 5-door (E-flex); styling inspired by the recent Flextreme Concept.

* Skylark: Rebadged next generation Astra sedan (SWB Delta).

* Regal: Rebadged current generation Insignia sedan (SWB Epsilon).

* Invicta: Upcoming Epsilon based LaCrosse sedan (LWB Epsilon); the "Invicta" name is my personal preference for this car for the U.S. market.

* Centieme: Rebadged next generation Opel Meriva MPV (LWB Gamma); styling inspired by the recent Meriva Concept.

* Terraza: Rebadged next generation Opel Zafira MPV (LWB Delta).

* Rendezvous: Rebadged next generation Opel Antara crossover (SWB Theta).

* Rainier: Midsize crossover (LWB Theta).

* Enclave: Large crossover (Lambda).

PONTIAC: Entry premium sub-brand.

* Fiero: Rebadged next generation Corsa 3-door/5-door (SWB Gamma).

* LeMans: Rebadged next generation Astra 3-door/5-door (SWB Delta).

GMC: Premium utility sub-brand.

* Sierra: Fullsize truck.

* Denali: Fullsize SUV.

In response to another post about the past failures of Opel products in the U.S.:

I think the next generation of Opel products (beginning with the Insignia) can be successfully sold in the U.S., if GM learns from the mistakes it made in importing the current gen Astra to the U.S. GM needs to do the following to ensure that the next generation of Opel products are successful entries in the U.S. market for Buick/Pontiac:

1) Assemble the vehicles in North America.

2) Ensure that the U.S. versions of the vehicles are equipped with engines/features/amenities that properly position the products in the premium segment in the U.S. The ground up designs can be mostly carried over from the vehicles' Euro counterparts, but the final products needs to be tweaked and tailored for the U.S. market and the respective brands that receive the products.

3) Agressively market and promote the products.

[Chicagoland]

I dont see them bring back too many old outdated names, that most young adults never remember. Oh, and lets leave Terraza, Fiero, Invicta, and Rendevous in the dumpster.

Also, Chevy has to compete head on with Honda/Toy, no more of this snobby 'i wont buy a Chevy'. Maybe if they have good cars, yeah,

But to keep all the brands to keep outdated dealers open is bad business,

[saturnd00d]

But isn't that what Saturn was created for? To appeal to people who wouldn't otherwise buy a GM product. So, for it to attract "people who wouldn't buy a chevy", it would also be appealing to those who would buy something non-GM, or non-american altogether.

Anyways, best of luck to GM, but I don't think I'll be buying another new product from them again. I just hope for the American population's sake, that they know what they are doing, because it's your money for the most part they will be toying with.

[Chicagoland]

Well, they aren't making money the way they have been for 20 years. Import buyers are hard coded, so why bother and go after the 'swing' buyers.

[Robert Hall]

Well, they aren't making money the way they have been for 20 years. Import buyers are hard coded, so why bother and go after the 'swing' buyers.

If they don't go after the import buyers, they are giving up a pretty large chunk of the new car market.....

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually I think for the first time in about 20 years we have the product to go after the import buyers.

Chris

[CARBIZ]

But isn't that what Saturn was created for? To appeal to people who wouldn't otherwise buy a GM product. So, for it to attract "people who wouldn't buy a chevy", it would also be appealing to those who would buy something non-GM, or non-american altogether.

Anyways, best of luck to GM, but I don't think I'll be buying another new product from them again. I just hope for the American population's sake, that they know what they are doing, because it's your money for the most part they will be toying with.

Saturn is a junk company. All the resources plowed into that useless brand should have been poured into Oldsmobile 20 years ago. Olds had the cache back in the late '90s to go after Acura and Lexus. Since then, the only reason I can think of for Saturn's existence is there must be some VPs in the RenCen who were responsible for Saturn's inception and until they die (or are fired) they can't let Saturn go: petty fiefdoms and all.

Even the vaulted 'Saturn experience' is a crock. I have personally been involved in Saturn dealers wrenching deals away from me, and I can assure folks that they do haggle, negotiate and obfuscate to get the deal, so any slogans to the contrary are

[thenewdamage]

Actually I think for the first time in about 20 years we have the product to go after the import buyers.

Chris

Which models are you thinking of?

[turbo200]

import owners may be hard-coded or 'single-mindedly' in love with thier imports.....but as i've been saying all along the way to anyone's heart is through irresistable design. no one can resist a figure like heidi klum's regardless what color she comes in.

[regfootball]

if chevy's were good, they could survive on chevy, buick, caddy. but chevy is always behind cool. i am fine with a pontiac, personally!

[saturnd00d]

Saturn is a junk company. All the resources plowed into that useless brand should have been poured into Oldsmobile 20 years ago. Olds had the cache back in the late '90s to go after Acura and Lexus. Since then, the only reason I can think of for Saturn's existence is there must be some VPs in the RenCen who were responsible for Saturn's inception and until they die (or are fired) they can't let Saturn go: petty fiefdoms and all.

Even the vaulted 'Saturn experience' is a crock. I have personally been involved in Saturn dealers wrenching deals away from me, and I can assure folks that they do haggle, negotiate and obfuscate to get the deal, so any slogans to the contrary are

And so if GM poured Saturn's resources into Oldsmobile, where would that have taken Olds? If I recall, Saturn started with econoboxes, and Olds was anything but that. Two different markets as far as I'm concerned. GM needed a concept to go after import buyers, and they developed Saturn with compact in mind, and a great sales experience. Olds offered nothing close to the same, so I find your point redundant.

To call it junk was unfair, since it was the parent company who starved them of much-needed money. Should Saturn have been allowed to evolve over time, it would have been one of GM's best divisions now, as GM is hurting for good quality economy offerings. Chevy isn't good in that department, they just offer cheap reliable, not good quality reliable (economy cars anyway).

Say what you will about Saturn, but they have a following all their own, similar to import buyers. And for good reason too.

It's too bad that they now have the product that has the capability to topple the imports, but without widespread dealer availability, and no brand awareness, how can anyone think they would be profitable anyways? It's a losing battle when your not given the resources as your sister companies.

[saturnd00d]

if chevy's were good, they could survive on chevy, buick, caddy. but chevy is always behind cool. i am fine with a pontiac, personally!

As a younger consumer, I'm able to afford Chevy and Saturn (new anyways), however with Saturn gone, I won't resort to buying Chevy, as the brand in no way appeals to me. They are too vanilla, because they try to appeal to too many people. There's no focus with the brand, so they will always be the "whatever you can afford" brand as far as I'm concerned.

[CARBIZ]

And so if GM poured Saturn's resources into Oldsmobile, where would that have taken Olds? If I recall, Saturn started with econoboxes, and Olds was anything but that. Two different markets as far as I'm concerned. GM needed a concept to go after import buyers, and they developed Saturn with compact in mind, and a great sales experience. Olds offered nothing close to the same, so I find your point redundant.

To call it junk was unfair, since it was the parent company who starved them of much-needed money. Should Saturn have been allowed to evolve over time, it would have been one of GM's best divisions now, as GM is hurting for good quality economy offerings. Chevy isn't good in that department, they just offer cheap reliable, not good quality reliable (economy cars anyway).

Say what you will about Saturn, but they have a following all their own, similar to import buyers. And for good reason too.

It's too bad that they now have the product that has the capability to topple the imports, but without widespread dealer availability, and no brand awareness, how can anyone think they would be profitable anyways? It's a losing battle when your not given the resources as your sister companies.

My point is that even in the glory days of the mid-80s, the last thing GM needed was another brand. Saturn is a 'junk' brand in the same way 'junk' bonds are junk: value-less. Oldsmobile was top-tier in the mid-80s. The Cutlass was one of the top selling models in both our countries. The billions poured into Saturn could have gone into Olds to go after the import buyers at a time when Honda and Toyota were starting to become a threat. Plastic bodies or not, the concept of a 'premium' small car like the Acura Legend could have come from Olds (as much later the Alero was a feeble attempt at). We can only imagine what an Alero-esque vehicle brought out in the late '80s would have done for Olds. (Let's completely forget the Acheiva!)

If you look at the demographics of who bought the Cutlass in the mid-80s, and look at who is buying the Acuras and Madza 6's today, I am sure you will have a match.

At the time, Saturn may have seemed like a good idea, to get around the UAW, to start a new, fresh dealer network, but we all know how that has turned out. There is no reason any of their actual models couldn't have been folded into Chevrolet or Pontiac at that time.

[Chicagoland]

Yes, Olds was selling well, and then GM in 1987 decided that it should be more 'Euro' and Buick should drop turbos and be 'near luxury. Should have let them be as they were.

"New Gen of Olds" confused buyers and alienated loyal buyers to go to Mercury.

Posted before, all the $$$ spent on Saturn could have been used for better J, N, W and G cars!

[gm4life]

Face it Olds could have been a Lexus killer, but money was going to $h! like Saturn and Hummer. Two brands GM never should have had.

[Croc]

Face it Olds could have been a Lexus killer, but money was going to $h! like Saturn and Hummer. Two brands GM never should have had.

Olds? No. It never was a "luxury" marque, and with Buick and Cadillac it didn't need to be. Olds was positioned perfectly; it just wasn't given enough time for the new product to catch on.

Saturn only wishes it commanded the transaction prices that Olds did in its death throes.

[haypops]

Saturn only wishes it commanded the transaction prices that Olds did in its death throes.

The proper comparison would be the transaction prices for Corolla and civic. Saturn's did bring in higher transaction prices than these (refering to S series).

[BigPontiac]

GM may have a way to shed the Saturn brand. From the WSJ Online:

The company will also discuss plans for its Saturn division, including an option of putting the division, which is technically a separate entity, into bankruptcy protection. The auto maker's executives worry that suppliers could tighten credit terms, and the government could swiftly recall its loans.

Link to Article

[Croc]

The proper comparison would be the transaction prices for Corolla and civic. Saturn's did bring in higher transaction prices than these (refering to S series).

For comparing what, the Astra?

GM has attempted to position Saturn as a premium alternative to VW, with AURA, ASTRA, VUE, OUTLOOK, and SKY. They've failed, and the Saturn brand cannot support the price points Olds easily could. Time for it to finally go.

[haypops]

For comparing what, the Astra?

No the S series.

[Z-06]

For comparing what, the Astra?

GM has attempted to position Saturn as a premium alternative to VW, with AURA, ASTRA, VUE, OUTLOOK, and SKY. They've failed, and the Saturn brand cannot support the price points Olds easily could. Time for it to finally go.

Totally agree on that point. Despite being more of a looker than the Solstice, Sky never top its Poncho sibling in sales. Olds could have propelled the premium alternative, which I think Buick can do without Saturn easily.

[Croc]

No the S series.

The hell is your point? Saturn hasn't sold the S-series in years, and when it did, that was before Saturn was repositioned as a premium brand, essentially to replace Olds.

Totally agree on that point. Despite being more of a looker than the Solstice, Sky never top its Poncho sibling in sales. Olds could have propelled the premium alternative, which I think Buick can do without Saturn easily.

Exactly. And Saturn doesn't have the lack of dealerships problem that SAAB does.

Frankly, though, I don't think the blame lies on Saturn entirely...Note I previously said GM "attempted" to reposition Saturn...GM never did that. I took one look at the AURA when it first came out and knew then that it would never work. GM doesn't know how to reposition brands that aren't Cadillac. GM I suspect designs cars to a strict budget, instead of designing a car and letting the transaction price reflect the extra quality that goes into it. How many times have we seen GM cars with obvious cost-cutting moves to save a dollar or two per car? Does anybody think consumers would balk at a hundred dollars or two for the same car, but without all those little cheapo cost-cuttings? Cars would probably sell better, and at a higher price because no one would feel like they were "settling" as much.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Croc

[Chicagoland]

To me the Malibu is just as good if not better than the Aura, due to its lower price. And, you can cut a deal!

[Robert Hall]

The hell is your point? Saturn hasn't sold the S-series in years, and when it did, that was before Saturn was repositioned as a premium brand, essentially to replace Olds.

The Aura to me seemed pretty much what a 2nd gen Intrigue would have been.

[Croc]

To me the Malibu is just as good if not better than the Aura, due to its lower price. And, you can cut a deal!

Your eyes don't deceive--it's better. And +1 on the haggling.

The Aura to me seemed pretty much what a 2nd gen Intrigue would have been.

Disagree. The materials in the Intrigue would have improved, if continued, and not taken a step back. I never understood the praise for the AURA...it screamed cheap to me with the plastic door sills and fake plastic "stitching" on them. Oh, cheesy fake wood, and that corrugated guage plate? Amber backlighting? Yikes.

[Robert Hall]

Your eyes don't deceive--it's better. And +1 on the haggling.

Disagree. The materials in the Intrigue would have improved, if continued, and not taken a step back. I never understood the praise for the AURA...it screamed cheap to me with the plastic door sills and fake plastic "stitching" on them. Oh, cheesy fake wood, and that corrugated guage plate? Amber backlighting? Yikes.

Well, the Aura fits the same market niche that the Intrigue did...and the couple of Intrigues I've been in weren't particularly special inside, just typical '90s GM gray plastic everywhere..

[Croc]

Well, the Aura fits the same market niche that the Intrigue did...and the couple of Intrigues I've been in weren't particularly special inside, just typical '90s GM gray plastic everywhere..

They at least looked decent IMO. Of course, I think that GM materials took a step back with the first generation of Epsilons, especially when compared to the N- and W-bodies.

[CARBIZ]

Totally agree on that point. Despite being more of a looker than the Solstice, Sky never top its Poncho sibling in sales. Olds could have propelled the premium alternative, which I think Buick can do without Saturn easily.

Can you imagine the possibilities if the 'upscale' Sky was a Pontiac and the 'cheaper' Solstice had gone to Chevrolet? Properly positioned, they wouldn't have competed against each other, and 2 years ago would have probably sold double what they have.

[CARBIZ]

Well, the Aura fits the same market niche that the Intrigue did...and the couple of Intrigues I've been in weren't particularly special inside, just typical '90s GM gray plastic everywhere..

Yes, but if Saturn wasn't sucking up development $$$, the original Intrigue may have been better, and then any monies gone into the Aura/Vue, etc. could have gone to a 'new' Intrigue circa 2003. Hell, even an extra few $$$ spent on the last Aurora could have hit it out of the park.

People always assume that many of the designer/engineers at GM are incompetent, but I suspect it has more to do with spreading a diminishing development pot of money around.

[Z-06]

Can you imagine the possibilities if the 'upscale' Sky was a Pontiac and the 'cheaper' Solstice had gone to Chevrolet? Properly positioned, they wouldn't have competed against each other, and 2 years ago would have probably sold double what they have.

Double is an understatement. They would have been able to make volume and profit at the under 20K price tag which the solstice started with and has now increased by 20%.

[thenewdamage]

Can you imagine the possibilities if the 'upscale' Sky was a Pontiac and the 'cheaper' Solstice had gone to Chevrolet? Properly positioned, they wouldn't have competed against each other, and 2 years ago would have probably sold double what they have.

I have often scratched my head wondering why Chevy didnt have an entry level roadster like the Sky. Just having the Chevy nameplate on a variant would have assured several times the exposure and probable sales compared to the Sky. It would have been a solid competitor to the S2000 or Miata. Cadillac could have had a 'little brother' to the XLR that would easily compete with the premium roadsters from Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

Of course I am a sports car addict and rather biased.

[Robert Hall]

I have often scratched my head wondering why Chevy didnt have an entry level roadster like the Sky. Just having the Chevy nameplate on a variant would have assured several times the exposure and probable sales compared to the Sky. It would have been a solid competitor to the S2000 or Miata. Cadillac could have had a 'little brother' to the XLR that would easily compete with the premium roadsters from Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

Of course I am a sports car addict and rather biased.

I think Chevy did contemplate one...there was a cover article on Motor Trend a couple years ago about a possible Chevy 'Sting Ray'. Never came to be.

[thenewdamage]

I think Chevy did contemplate one...there was a cover article on Motor Trend a couple years ago about a possible Chevy 'Sting Ray'. Never came to be.

http://jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/coming-soo...ette-207918.php

Interesting.

[A Horse With No Name]

To me the Malibu is just as good if not better than the Aura, due to its lower price. And, you can cut a deal!

+1

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I think Chevy did contemplate one...there was a cover article on Motor Trend a couple years ago about a possible Chevy 'Sting Ray'. Never came to be.

Actually, given that the S2000, Miata, Z4, Boxster, etc. have their own limited buying demographic, and that Chevy has a very wide buying demographic...whatever they came out with would probably way outsell all of the above.

A small junior Corvette might be a real seller....I understand not wanting to clutter the lineup and cannibalize Corvette sales but still...

Chris

[thenewdamage]

Actually, given that the S2000, Miata, Z4, Boxster, etc. have their own limited buying demographic, and that Chevy has a very wide buying demographic...whatever they came out with would probably way outsell all of the above.

A small junior Corvette might be a real seller....I understand not wanting to clutter the lineup and cannibalize Corvette sales but still...

Chris

I think it would be a mistake to market it as a 'junior corvette' of any sort. Now if they want to unofficially make comparisons by such things as the name 'Sting Ray' and body lines that might work. But no way should they dilute the corvette name. It is the only true American sports car made. But then GM seldom does what us car guys think they should. Sorta like using the name 'LT1' in '92 for the new corvette engine.

I read an article in Car Craft magazine and the author said that 'GM has sold all the '71 vettes they will ever sell and won't hesitate to trade on the legend of the LT1 name to sell cars now'. And as long as you remember that designing and marketing cars isnt the same as being a 'car guy' it makes sense. Sorta.

I was a corvette owner in the past and would definitely have considered a 'Sting Ray' where I wouldnt a new regular corvette. And that is nothing against the new corvette as I wouldnt buy any high end new car with the horrible depreciation on them. Six years ago my SLK320 was $51,000 new. I bought it 6 months ago for $16,000 and it is very low mileage in pristine condition.

[Z-06]

Chevrolet would have been better off with a Kappa. That would have bode well with fighting off 350Z and would have justified having both coupe and convertible version.

It would not have stepped into Camaro or Cobalt SS, both different animals as one has 4 seating capability despite being a RWD like the kappa, while the later is a FWD.

As for the baby corvette version, what Chris meant was rather than the name a vehicle that sat underneath the vette. Trust me, I would not like to dilute my favorite owned car's name either.

[thenewdamage]

As for the baby corvette version, what Chris meant was rather than the name a vehicle that sat underneath the vette. Trust me, I would not like to dilute my favorite owned car's name either.

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, a mid to low end roadster for Chevy would seem to be a no-brainer. Instead we got more trucks and SUV's.