What modern car was GM most disappointed in, Sales wise?

[A Horse With No Name]

So what is GM's biggest modern flop...The Reatta perhaps?

Chris

[trinacriabob]

So what is GM's biggest modern flop...The Reatta perhaps?

Chris

I kind of liked the Reatta...in Maui Blue...though I wouldn't have bought one.

I think the mid-90s oval tail Riviera did NOT do well...weird car.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Aztec, not only did the sales never take off, but it became the poster child for everything wrong with GM.

[XP715]

What about the Cadillac Allante? Billed as GM's SL500 killer, it was offered with front wheel drive and automatic only, plus the interior was hideous. What a turdwagon.

[Northstar]

This is a tough call, because there have been so many... you could name one from each brand, or more.

Cadillac SRX, Chevy Malibu (last gen, and this gen isn't selling that great so far either), CSVs, all sorts of Pontiacs (Aztek, Grand Prix, G6 to some extent), 9-7x, the list goes on and on...

I guess the biggest flop might be the SRX. Cadillac had a lot of momentum going at that point and looked poised to make a run to the top, but the failure of the SRX was the first set back and seemed to kill momentum.

[regfootball]

"9-2x"

[FAPTurbo]

Chevrolet SSR?

[trinacriabob]

This is a tough call, because there have been so many... you could name one from each brand, or more.

Cadillac SRX, Chevy Malibu (last gen, and this gen isn't selling that great so far either), CSVs, all sorts of Pontiacs (Aztek, Grand Prix, G6 to some extent), 9-7x, the list goes on and on...

I guess the biggest flop might be the SRX. Cadillac had a lot of momentum going at that point and looked poised to make a run to the top, but the failure of the SRX was the first set back and seemed to kill momentum.

Malibu - nice driving car, got great accolades out of the gate, staying power is kind of questionable, has styling that is too "thick" and not timeless

Grand Prix - I see them every day, and think what a GREAT car that could have been with some "nip and tuck"....this could have stolen a lot of sales from its non-GM competitors, as this is a segment that many people want and need in their driveways.

[Intrepidation]

Don't forget the GTO and so far the G8.

[trinacriabob]

Don't forget the GTO and so far the G8.

Which is sad because the GTO wasn't bad and the G8 is a real good-looking car.

[Intrepidation]

Which is sad because the GTO wasn't bad and the G8 is a real good-looking car.

Agreed.

[Satty]

Wouldn't it be quicker to name the sales successes GM has had in the last decade or so?

Corvette

GMT-800s

ummm.........

Impala (if you want to count fleet sales)

ummmm......

A little help please

[Camino LS6]

No niche car qualifies for the title here, only a failed volume car should take first place.

Something that they depended on to move a lot of metal that didn't deliver.

[daves87rs]

Well, with so many choices.....

[Drew Dowdell]

Modern?

Reatta and Allante' aren't modern.

Modern sales flop would be the Astra.

Reviewed well, received well by those who drive it, people seem to like the looks - yet terrible sales.

[daves87rs]

Aren't Astras piling up like cord wood?

Yep.

But that happens when you try to add 5 grand to a saturn small car....

Gee, I'm guessing that might be the main reason......

[vonVeezelsnider]

Wouldn't it be quicker to name the sales successes GM has had in the last decade or so?

Corvette

GMT-800s

ummm.........

Impala (if you want to count fleet sales)

ummmm......

A little help please

LeSabre

[PurdueGuy]

Each new Saturn small car. S-Series sold like hotcakes (though it slowed a little in the last couple out of 11 years). Ion never sold anywhere near S-Series levels, and now it looks like the Astra is going to make Ion sales levels look good.

[Camino LS6]

Ion is probably the best example so far.

[VenSeattle]

I'd go with BH's vote: Pontiac Aztek. The Success/Failure was so lopsided between the Rendezvous and Aztek. It was GM's first foray into CUV territory. Most people were more worried about Buick's ability to offer a premium CUV instead of Pontiac's activity vehicle... especially since the Aztek concept garnered such heavy praise.

Both were expected to be high volume vehicles with Pontiac carrying most of the volume. The exact opposite happened. Aztek sales were horrible while Rendevous' sales boomed. Sales exceeded expectations by so much, it allowed GM to discontinue the lame duck Aztek while continue producing the Rendevous for years after the Aztek was dropped. Rendezvous' success paved the way for Buick to justify the investment for the very stylish and luxurious Enclave.

2nd choice would have to be the Saturn Ion... another poster child for everything that was wrong at GM.

[Camino LS6]

I have to agree, the Aztek was a huge failure.

[Satty]

The Aztek made the the Rendezvous possible, so it brought something to the table. The ION was a terrible small car, calling it half-assed would be too nice.

[PurdueGuy]

The Aztek made the the Rendezvous possible, so it brought something to the table. The ION was a terrible small car, calling it half-assed would be too nice.

Oh come on, the Ion isn't that bad. It's 90% the same as a cobalt. The main disappointments are interior design & exterior styling. Mechanically, it hasn't had any more problems than most cars. It was certainly a sales disappointment after the S-Series, though.

[Satty]

The electric power steering was atrocious, the automatic transmissions (5-speed Aisin and CVT) were problematic, the seats were terrible, the interior was Geo-level, the ION was a terrible effort from a company that could do better.

[A Horse With No Name]

That's a good way to put it, Satty.

GM could have and should have done so much better than the Ion.

Chris/66

[Camino LS6]

The Aztek made the the Rendezvous possible, so it brought something to the table. The ION was a terrible small car, calling it half-assed would be too nice.

So were the original K-cars, but they saved Chrysler's ass. Sales numbers vs. expectation is the criterion we are looking at here, no?

[A Horse With No Name]

That would be correct, sir.

The original K cars were well marketed, and the included wagons, a minivan spinoff that defined the market, two door hatchback, four door hatchback, sedan, coupe, convertible et al.

Chrysler did pretty well with this one, a simple car with a simple marketing plan that worked.

Gm would do well to copy the formula, yes?

The Astra, if it had sold, would have been logical basis for this as it has a lot of variants in Europe GM could pull from for US sales.

As it is I think MINI is selling more small cars than Saturn.

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

no matter what their fate is in the history books...

the G8 and Monaro-GTO will almost certainly see a

spot in my future garage, I just wish I could have

bought one of each NEW, not cause I like new car

smell but because it would have been a new vehicle

sale for GM.... and a vote for RWD-6-spd-manuals!

Edited November 21, 2008 by Sixty8panther

[Oracle of Delphi]

No niche car qualifies for the title here, only a failed volume car should take first place.

Something that they depended on to move a lot of metal that didn't deliver.

I disagree, the 2004 - 2006 GTO was a complete failure, even Lutz said so, and that was his baby.

[gm4life]

The Aztek and Ion each were huge flops along with the Astra. The GTO really wasn't that poorly recieved and sales weren't that bad, nor are the G8 sales.

[Camino LS6]

I disagree, the 2004 - 2006 GTO was a complete failure, even Lutz said so, and that was his baby.

On that point we will never agree.

[Sixty8panther]

It's the dumb American public that FAILED the Holden-GTO.... not vice versa.

[Satty]

How did the American public fail the GTO? It was a niche model to begin with, and for the first year it just looked like a Grand Prix coupe.

[Oracle of Delphi]

On that point we will never agree.

As I knew you would. :AH-HA_wink:

[mustang84]

Aura and Astra sales have been pretty dismal compared to what everyone was expecting.

[fightingbee]

It's the dumb American public that FAILED the Holden-GTO.... not vice versa.

+1

GM is always ragged on for not offering sophisticated, import-like cars. Yet they offer the GTO which was the closest Pontiac has come to the target of BMW-like performance (before the G8 of course) and it is criticized by the "since its a GTO, it should be an old school muscle car" folks.

BTW: the 2004's with the "boring" clean styling were my favorite. looked more Euro looking that way IMO.

Edited November 21, 2008 by fightingbee

[Camino LS6]

+1

GM is always ragged on for not offering sophisticated, import-like cars. Yet they offer the GTO which was the closest Pontiac has come to the target of BMW-like performance (before the G8 of course) and it is criticized by the "since its a GTO, it should be an old school muscle car" folks.

BTW: the 2004's with the "boring" clean styling were my favorite. looked more Euro looking that way IMO.

Mine was still the best all-around car I have ever owned- I miss it.

[cletus8269]

BTW: the 2004's with the "boring" clean styling were my favorite. looked more Euro looking that way IMO.

if you ask me there couldnt have been a better 40th anniversary GTO

1964 understatement = 2004 understatement

[Camino LS6]

if you ask me there couldnt have been a better 40th anniversary GTO

1964 understatement = 2004 understatement

[Intrepidation]

I think the GTO's biggest problem was the fact that it's exterior design was several years behind what the current styling trend was. It also didn't help that it looked like a bloated Cavalier or Catera. I like the car, but that was one of it's biggest shortcomings.

[trinacriabob]

Wouldn't it be quicker to name the sales successes GM has had in the last decade or so?

Corvette

GMT-800s

ummm.........

Impala (if you want to count fleet sales)

ummmm......

A little help please

Very tough call...can't think of many EXCEPT the Impala. Flagship Cadillacs don't seem to wax and wane too much in terms of sales...there will always be rich retirees in Palm Springs and Palm Beach.

I was just at the bookstore /cafe having COFFEE. I was in the auto section and saw the pictorial "GM - 100 years," an awesome coffee table book. I was both fascinated and depressed. I was going through the 70s pages. Everybody wanted a new Cutlass, Monte Carlo, or Seville in their driveways...all of their new cars had something distinctive about them and most up them held up well mechanically. Was it the 80s when the "bottom fell out" on quality? (Some of them were ok). In 20 years, the domestic automakers either did something (or DIDN'T DO something) to alienate a lot of customers. The domestic automakers are paying for their perceived, or actual faux pas of the '80s, and, combined with the struggling economy, it appears to be a "perfect storm."

[fightingbee]

if you ask me there couldnt have been a better 40th anniversary GTO

1964 understatement = 2004 understatement

[CSpec]

There have many cars that have either been just terrible, or haven't sold at all through bungled launches and/or horrible media campaigns. Saturns rebirth recently has been pretty weak, except maybe the VUE. The CSVs were awful, but I don't think really looked at those as new models, nor did GM really expect them to light up the marketplace. The GTO was a serious flop (shame), and I agree that the SRX really hurt Cadillac, even though it got fantastic reviews across the board. The STS is seriously subpar and always was, and now no one really talks about a rebirth. It's the CTS and the others. What about the Solstice? GM hyped it up to extreme levels, but it has a problematic interior and an inferior roof design, and the market for that kind of car isn't huge anyway.

I would vote for the GMT360 platform however. Riddled with serious reliability problems from the onset, the continued abuse of platform mates was shameful. Their interiors were always subpar and from all accounts they have pretty bad driving dynamics, especially the EXTs. Not that they were horrible compared to the competition, but the rampant badge engineering and platform sharing is seriously old-school GM think, and they do not have a good image.

[Drew Dowdell]

+1

GM is always ragged on for not offering sophisticated, import-like cars. Yet they offer the GTO which was the closest Pontiac has come to the target of BMW-like performance (before the G8 of course) and it is criticized by the "since its a GTO, it should be an old school muscle car" folks.

BTW: the 2004's with the "boring" clean styling were my favorite. looked more Euro looking that way IMO.

The 1964 GTO was based on your grandmother's Lemans..... why would the 2004 GTO not be a true GTO if it looked like your grandmother's Grand Prix coupe?

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually I like the looks of the modern GTO. The Grand Prix was not a bad car styling wise, and your right Oldsmoboi, they kept the styling "in the family."

Chris/66

[gmcbob]

The modern GTO was cool. I had sort of thought about trying to find a used (2006) GTO before I bought my Vue after the Hurricane, but I was so pressed for time and things were so goofed up around here that I really couldn't.

I think the problem with the modern day GTO was it was too expensive for the type of audience they were going after. For many thousands less you could be driving a Mustang GT. If they would have stickered the GTO around $25k or so, it would have been a much bigger hit I think.

I did see a purple 6.0L with the dual exhausts in traffic yesterday (perfect shape too, guy obviously takes great care of it). It made me really think that that car was a lot cooler than people gave it credit for.

But in typical GM fashion it was too little, too late and too expensive. They should have had that thing over here in the late 90s (when it was new Down Under) right alongside the Trans Am in showrooms.

Edited November 21, 2008 by gmcbob

[A Horse With No Name]

That would have helped it. And I think your right about the price thing.

Chris