BILINGUAL ballot...

[daves87rs]

I think everything should be in German!

You would!

Anyways, I'm not seeing the point of this thread.

Sorry Bob, this thread turned from "I'm pissed" to a bunch of babbling about randon stuff I'm not sure people even know what the hell that people are talking about....

While I can understand what some of what has been said here, I say this:

Once you have struggled to survive, many of you would have different views on a lot of things....

*throws on flame suit*

[trinacriabob]

How dare they make me skip a line while reading?!

Seriously, Bob? Are you that afraid of change?

Especially when it comes to ballots. We have enough people who screw them up when English is their native language; even if they have learned English, I'd rather native Spanish speakers vote on a ballot written in Spanish, just to avoid any possible confusion.

I'm not afraid of change. Right now, we need change.

I'm just not fond of the fact that some people don't try...or won't try. I learned Spanish in college and retained it...to make my travel experiences easier. You'd think someone would try to learn English to make EVERYDAY LIVING easier.

I resent that HALF my ballot was in Spanish.

But, evidently it's a much more researched policy call by various states that encompasses more viewpoints than mine, so I guess I'm "outnumbered." Still, I don't like it.

Edited November 6, 2008 by trinacriabob

[Satty]

We went to a Mexican restaurant for lunch, and the menu was entirely in Spanish. The nerve.

[trinacriabob]

We went to a Mexican restaurant for lunch, and the menu was entirely in Spanish. The nerve.

That's ok. I read, write and speak Spanish. :wink:

[Satty]

I can read and comprehend (as long as the speaker isn't speaking really fast) but I cant speak it at all. Just the quirkiness that is my brain.

[The O.C.]

regardless...no excuse...if u cant speak the language of a country well enough you shouldnt vote in that country

I agree.....it pisses me off too.....

So does the "....for English, press 1..." $h! that we have to deal with anytime we go to the ATM, or call a customer service phone number, etc...

[The O.C.]

Satty, what are you yammering about? I am talking about people who make NO EFFORT to assimilate into our culture by learning English and speaking it to do business. In my business, I run into this problem too often. The onus is on THEM to get up to speed, not on ME, a natural born citizen.

Again.....I agree.

If I moved to, say, Germany, then I'd feel the responsibility upon myself to learn German and speak it.....as difficult as that may be.

[The O.C.]

Does that argument extend to dyslexics? That's a portion of the population that, depending on the severity and degree of it, has real problems comprehending written text. Are they less of Americans, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to vote?

What about blind people? Would you balk at a Braille ballot?

Get over yourself.

Croc you are totally missing the point of what's being said in this thread.

It also has something to do with national pride.....something that's also been way lacking in the recent past and present. We've always been a country of immigrants. That's what we are proud of. But from my vantage point, we've never seen such a large disrespect for our country as this relatively recent influx of hispanics that in many cases (not all) don't attempt to assimilate into our culture.

Why is it when you are given a language choice (at the ATM, or when calling a 1-800 number, etc.) the ONLY choices are english.......and spanish?

How do the asians feel about this? Or the French? Or any othe Europeans that have immigrated to our country? Or the middle easterners?

[Satty]

As I said earlier, this seems to be more of a generational/environmental issue. I dont think I have ever heard anyone my age (24) complain about having to press "1" for English because its been going on most of our lives. We also tend to be more accepting of people who dont speak English, or dont speak it well, because we've grown up with them, unlike older generations that grew up in more homogeneous environments. In 20-30 years this whole "national language" issue will be a dead one.

[The O.C.]

Native Spanish speakers find English difficult to learn, because our language is ass-backwards from theirs. Disenfranchising someone because of this is terribly un-American. Relegating a person to a lower status because of this is terribly un-American.

And you don't think asians that immigrated over here didn't have as hard or harder time learning english?

[The O.C.]

Wow, emotions run high - and I suppose that is a good thing. Frankly, the liberal side of me wants to believe that opening the floodgates to immigration is a good thing and that those coming here will see that the 'American' (or 'Canadian') Way is the better way.

.....but the draw of the "American" or "Canadian" way implies that you, as an immigrant, are going to assimilate a large part into our society.....otherwise, why would you be drawn by the "American" or "Canadian" way of life?

[Satty]

And you don't think asians that immigrated over here didn't have as hard or harder time learning english?

I'm sure they do, but its a numbers game. If a certain percentage of the electorate in an area speaks a non-English native tongue, they're required to have a ballot in that language.

[The O.C.]

Didn't we already cover this in the "I hate (Latino) immigrants" thread a while back? Why the hell are we discussing it again? And once more... It's not only Spanish. I saw "polling place" signs in languages other then English and Spanish...

C'mon now.....you know it's not a "I hate (Latino) immigrants" debate.......

There are scores of immigrants, hispanics included, from all over the world that have come here for a better opportunity....and have assimilated (okay, poor word, but I don't know what better word to use) to our culture.

But it just seems like the vast majority of those that don't assimilate are hispanics (seemingly mexicans.)

Doesn't mean people don't like mexicans or hispanics in general.....

[The O.C.]

My final rant on this subject is.....

I hate it when people refer to themselves as...."African Americans" or "Asian Americans" and so on. If you live here, are a citizen here, why can't you simply be an "American?"

My heritage is German. But I don't refer to myself as a "German American"........

[Satty]

If you have a problem with bilingual ballots, take it up with Congress for renewing the pesky Voting Rights Act.

[Croc]

.....but the draw of the "American" or "Canadian" way implies that you, as an immigrant, are going to assimilate a large part into our society.....otherwise, why would you be drawn by the "American" or "Canadian" way of life?

Huh? The draw is that of freedom...that you can do your thing without risk of gross persecution by the government. Wouldn't that encourage cultural retention?

By the way, all research shows that the second-generation immigrant family is HIGHLY Americanized.

[Croc]

My final rant on this subject is.....

I hate it when people refer to themselves as...."African Americans" or "Asian Americans" and so on. If you live here, are a citizen here, why can't you simply be an "American?"

My heritage is German. But I don't refer to myself as a "German American"........

Because the U.S. Government requires people to identify as some "race" (even though race is purely a social construct) for census purposes, and has decided that there ust be some sort of categorical division so everybody didn't just check the "White" box when they culturally assimilate to the WASP majority.

And the reason you don't identify as a German-American is because your skin is white and the U.S. Government hasn't institutionalized that you do so.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Croc

[trinacriabob]

the ONLY choices are english.......and spanish?

How do the asians feel about this? Or the French? Or any othe Europeans that have immigrated to our country? Or the middle easterners?

Spot on, my Vegas friend. Right. That's why I started this thread. In California, you might see extra choices for Russian, Tagalog, Mandarin Chinese and Vietnamese, but MOST of the time, you don't! That means those people can't call up the utility company or Avis or (insert name of company), and get service in their language...that means they will have to hustle and learn the language. And please don't raise the argument, "Well, gee, they can't find enough people to staff the phone lines in those languages." That's not the point.

What did all the Spanish speaking people do before this became available? You all know how much I love to talk about my native L.A. (which ought to mean Latin America ), so 1/3 of anybody I knew came from a Spanish speaking country and they MANAGED. Moreover, most of them were too proud and productive, so they wanted to learn English as fast as they could and have their children, my classmates and neighborhood friends, assimilate and prosper, which they did very well.

Not only is it a slap to the Europeans, the Asians represented by smaller numbers, or Middle Easterners, it's also uncool to the Hispanics who went before this who were willing to step up to the plate and assimilate.

Sidebar: O.C., I don't mind when people say they're French or Iranian or Indian or Japanese. Generally, it's because they have first-generation ties to the country and are very in touch with that...and there is NO doubt that, in reality, everything about them is American to the bone. It's also extremely common in the Northeast or in South Florida, from my experiences, to ask "What are you?"