GM Staff Checking Over The New Buick Regal (PICS)

[Oracle of Delphi]

GM Staff Checking Over The New Buick Insignia, oops I mean Buick Regal.

One more Pic.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[balthazar]

Nice toyota!

[Oracle of Delphi]

Nice toyota!

Don't hate!

[balthazar]

Just calling it as I see it.

[ocnblu]

I've seen comments exactly like balthy's at other blogs and in print media. He's not alone.

It looks like the guy in the photo is trying to push down an uneven door belt molding. I hate that, when chrome belt moldings are not perfectly aligned between front and rear doors.

[ehaase]

Will this be sold here?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Will this be sold here?

The plan is not to sell the Buick Regal in the North America because the North American market is getting the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. The Buick Regal is just a rebadge of the Opel Insignia. All three of those cars are based on GME's Epsilon II platform. Saturn will be getting a version of the Opel Insignia in North America, so Buick will not sell the the Buick Regal in North America, as they are pretty much the same car.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[daves87rs]

I don't know why, but I like it....

[InvictaMan]

As much as I would just prefer Saturn disappear, I say let them have the Insignia and give Buick the Sports Tourer. Take that lower door crease off, slap that Regal fascia on it, give it Riviera Concept ventiports, point out that rear bumper, load the vehicle with lots of standards, including GPS phone dock, lux out that interior and call it Invicta. Sure would make a nice, more compact Enclave sibling.

Opel Insignia/Sports Tourer Site

Edited November 1, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Satty]

I see an Avalon.

[smk4565]

An Opel with a CamCord front end, yawn. The back is very Avalon like. The problem with Buick's plan to copy Toyota is no one does generic, uninspired, reliable transportation better than Toyota.

[gmcbob]

That Sports Tourer looks awesome. If I were the type of guy who traded in cars all the time, I'd consider trading in my Vue for that if it were sold in the US (Buick or Saturn badged).

[Oracle of Delphi]

The Opel Insignia Sports Tourer is the reason you won't see a Pontiac Sportwagon based off the Holden Commodore Sportwagon in North America, CPF said Nein, Nein, Nein!

[ocnblu]

More like 666 where he's concerned.

[VenSeattle]

The plan is not to sell the Buick Regal in the North America because the North American market is getting the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. The Buick Regal is just a rebadge of the Opel Insignia. All three of those cars are based on GME's Epsilon II platform.

Why does it make sense to sell the Buick Regal and Buick LaCrosse side by side in China, but consider them as overlap within the Buick line-up in the US market?

Saturn will be getting a version of the Opel Insignia in North America, so Buick will not sell the the Buick Regal in North America, as they are pretty much the same car.

So, even though Saturn is getting a "version of the Insignia" it must not be that much different than the Insignia itself if it would overlap the Buick "version of the Insignia"... correct?

Oh well, maybe we still have a chance at a Delta II Buick in the US.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Why does it make sense to sell the Buick Regal and Buick LaCrosse side by side in China, but consider them as overlap within the Buick line-up in the US market?

Because the Chinese won't have Saturn there selling almost the same car. So the Chinese get to have their cake and eat it too.

So, even though Saturn is getting a "version of the Insignia" it must not be that much different than the Insignia itself if it would overlap the Buick "version of the Insignia"... correct?

Oh well, maybe we still have a chance at a Delta II Buick in the US.

See answer above!

[VenSeattle]

Because the Chinese won't have Saturn there selling almost the same car. So the Chinese get to have their cake and eat it too.

Thanks. I'm not trying to be dense, but won't the Chinese have Opel selling the Insignia while Buick is offering nearly the same vehicle? or will Opel not sell the Insignia in China?

Or... does this have to do with Saturn and Buick eventually sharing showrooms in the US?

[GMTruckGuy74]

The Opel Insignia Sports Tourer is the reason you won't see a Pontiac Sportwagon based off the Holden Commodore Sportwagon in North America, CPF said Nein, Nein, Nein!

[cire]

I would still like to see some arrangement made to merge Saturn and Buick together to create a strong midmarket premium network (since Pontiac seems to be on its way to oblivion, unfortunately). Opel products could be used to form (Saturn) or augment (Buick) the lineups of these 2 brands. My preferred arrangement would be for Buick to take the lead as the high profile member of this network since it has more premium credibility than Saturn, high quality/reliability scores, and a strong following in China (where the U.S. Buick/Saturn arrangement could be duplicated with Buick/Opel). In this arrangement, Buick would carry the following products as the high profile member of the network: Tigra "TwinTop" (Cielo?), Astra sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" (Century? sedan/wagon & Skylark? coupe-cabrio), Insignia sedan/wagon (Regal?), LWB Eps II LaCrosse sedan (I would prefer the "Invicta" moniker), Eps II-Plus large sedan (LeSabre?), Alpha midsize coupe (Riviera?), Antara crossover (Rendezvous?), Theta-Eps midsize crossover (Rainier?), and Enclave. Saturn would be positioned as an entry premium sub-brand (sort of like a premium version of Scion) and offer a reduced lineup consisting of the following vehicles: Corsa 3-door/5-door, Astra 3-door/5-door, Meriva MPV, Zafira MPV, and a production version of the Flextreme hybrid. In this arrangement, the Insignia based "Regal" sedan could be positioned/marketed as a stylish "4-door coupe" (similar to the Passat CC) while the LWB Eps II LaCrosse (which I would call "Invicta) would be positioned/marketed towards traditional premium midsize sedan buyers (similar to the regular Passat sedan). The relationship between the "Regal"/"Invicta" would also be similar to the relationship between the 2009 Acura TSX and 2009 Acura TL.

I do realize that the proposed arrangement listed above is more pipe dream than anything that would be close to becoming reality. If GM eventually merges Saturn and Buick, the following lineup will probably be closer to what would realistically emerge in the U.S.:

Saturn: Corsa 3-door/5-door, Astra sedan/5-door/3-door, Insignia sedan (Aura), Meriva, Zafira, Antara (Vue), and production version of the Flextreme hybrid.

Buick: LaCrosse sedan (LWB Eps II), Lucerne sedan (Eps II-Plus), Riviera (Alpha), and Enclave.

GM would foolishly position Buick to take a supporting role to Saturn, even though Buick has the qualities that would make it the better choice to be positioned as the high profile premium brand. The "TwinTop" and wagon versions of the Opel products would probably not make it to the U.S. either, as both types of products are viewed as low volume propositions in the U.S. market (unfortunately).

I know many of you would like to see Buick receive a lineup of completely distinct models that carry all of Buick's traditional design cues (sweepspear and ventiports) and no Opel design DNA. I totally agree with that view, but GM doesn't have the funds to develop unique ground-up designs for every Buick model at the moment. By brand engineering (Buick grilles, badging, monikers, and minor interior alterations) some Opel models to fill in the gaps, Buick would receive appropriate products that would reestablish the division in the premium portion of the market without damaging Buick's reputation (as long as the products remain Buick exclusives in the U.S. and China) or draining all of GM's funds. Basically, the proposals above would be a cost effective and feasible way for GM to establish a solid midmarket premium network to bridge the gap between Chevrolet and Cadillac/Saab in both the U.S. (Buick/Saturn) and China (Buick/Opel).

[cire]

Because the Chinese won't have Saturn there selling almost the same car. So the Chinese get to have their cake and eat it too.

So Bob Lutz's claim that the next gen Saturn Aura will be its own car with a unique exterior/interior design that only shares mechanical components with the Insignia was basically not true (or has GM flipflopped yet again?). I thought that was the reason that the next gen Aura was delayed; GM decided not to badge the Insignia as the next gen Saturn Aura.

I also wondered about the same thing that VenSeattle submitted: Does GM plan to sell the Insignia as an Opel in China or will it be exclusive to Buick? I recently visited the Opel China website. The Vectra is still listed as part of the lineup. There is no mention of the Insignia (as well as the Corsa, Tigra, or Meriva).

Personally, I think the Insignia's premium nature would make it a better fit for Buick in the U.S. (which has a more premium image in the U.S. than Saturn).

[thegriffon]

Thanks. I'm not trying to be dense, but won't the Chinese have Opel selling the Insignia while Buick is offering nearly the same vehicle? or will Opel not sell the Insignia in China?

Or... does this have to do with Saturn and Buick eventually sharing showrooms in the US?

Or does it mean GM is dropping Opel from yet another market? How long before you can only get Opels in Germany?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Or does it mean GM is dropping Opel from yet another market? How long before you can only get Opels in Germany?

Hardly, I hope you are enjoying our Astra.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Thanks. I'm not trying to be dense, but won't the Chinese have Opel selling the Insignia while Buick is offering nearly the same vehicle? or will Opel not sell the Insignia in China?

Or... does this have to do with Saturn and Buick eventually sharing showrooms in the US?

For now, Opel will sell the Vectra in China. The Insignia will be sold through Buick in China.

[thegriffon]

Hardly, I hope you are enjoying our Astra.

That's just the problem, hardly anyone here does. Hardly anyone will touch the Astra with a ten-foot pole, despite reasonable reviews. No-one bought the Vectra either, the Zafira didn't last, the Corsa is long gone, and the Astra is all that's left. Pretty soon that will be gone too.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well to be honest, there is not much love between Opel and Holden, so maybe it's for the best. It will give y'all a chance to enjoy GMDAT.

[Camino LS6]

Well to be honest, there is not much love between Opel and Holden, so maybe it's for the best. It will give y'all a chance to enjoy GMDAT.

You can keep it, along with that Toyota clone you call Insignia - we don't want it.

[daves87rs]

That's just the problem, hardly anyone here does. Hardly anyone will touch the Astra with a ten-foot pole, despite reasonable reviews. No-one bought the Vectra either, the Zafira didn't last, the Corsa is long gone, and the Astra is all that's left. Pretty soon that will be gone too.

Kinda makes me wonder how long the Astra will be here...

[Satty]

Kinda makes me wonder how long the Astra will be here...

Probably not long before its replaced with a Pontiac π (or whatever they call their Cruze clone) clone.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The Opel Insignia Sports Tourer is the reason you won't see a Pontiac Sportwagon based off the Holden Commodore Sportwagon in North America, CPF said Nein, Nein, Nein!

ORLY?!?!

Seems that I remember you saying that Cadillac with their CTS wagon put a stop to that?

Hmmmm...

As for the Regal, well it's a generic blob of crap.

And, if any of you have been folowing the Chrysler polarizing design thread in the lounge, THIS is exactly what I'm trying to illustrate by saying that american cars sell on emotion.

This design would do EXCELLENT if it were brought here as a Toyota, because it matches what people define Toyota as. But with a Buick logo, even the BUICK FANS hate the car, much less the general public.

(Que the responses trying to prove me wrong with; "I'm a Buick fan and I like it.")

Edited November 3, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So, even though Saturn is getting a "version of the Insignia" it must not be that much different than the Insignia itself if it would overlap the Buick "version of the Insignia"... correct?

Oh well, maybe we still have a chance at a Delta II Buick in the US.

Which is one reason I oppose a Saturn/Buick/GMC tie up (as it would be now) Because as soon as GME gets rid of Pontiac to 'expand it's base' in america, it'll start whispering in GMNA's ear about how "Saturn and Buick essentially sell the same car, why not just fold Buick?"

And that is why the Buick fans here should be against such a tie up.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So Bob Lutz's claim that the next gen Saturn Aura will be its own car with a unique exterior/interior design that only shares mechanical components with the Insignia was basically not true (or has GM flipflopped yet again?). I thought that was the reason that the next gen Aura was delayed; GM decided not to badge the Insignia as the next gen Saturn Aura.

I also wondered about the same thing that VenSeattle submitted: Does GM plan to sell the Insignia as an Opel in China or will it be exclusive to Buick? I recently visited the Opel China website. The Vectra is still listed as part of the lineup. There is no mention of the Insignia (as well as the Corsa, Tigra, or Meriva).

Personally, I think the Insignia's premium nature would make it a better fit for Buick in the U.S. (which has a more premium image in the U.S. than Saturn).

That is apparently GMEs plan... To eventually either sell 14 versions of the same car (Like GM did in the 80s & 90s)

-or-

Have a "GM epsilon model", "GM delta model", etc.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That's just the problem, hardly anyone here does. Hardly anyone will touch the Astra with a ten-foot pole, despite reasonable reviews. No-one bought the Vectra either, the Zafira didn't last, the Corsa is long gone, and the Astra is all that's left. Pretty soon that will be gone too.

And, as more and more volume models are designed by GME, that will continue ALL AROUND THE WORLD. Like it or not, you cannot produce the EXACT same product (In the durable goods industry) around the world and sell it successfully everywhere. There are to many mitigating factors such as culture, beliefs, price, etc.

You can, however, develop excellent global platforms and design each car for regions or continents around the world and be successful. GM apparently doesn't get that.

Edited November 3, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[ZL-1]

And, as more and more volume models are designed by GME, that will continue ALL AROUND THE WORLD. Like it or not, you cannot produce the EXACT same product (In the durable goods industry) around the world and sell it successfully everywhere. There are to many mitigating factors such as culture, beliefs, price, etc.

You can, however, develop excellent global platforms and design each car for regions or continents around the world and be successful. GM apparently doesn't get that.

Toyota does it to some extent.

IMO what GM does not understand is that they have a cash-bleeding cancer in their NA operations that was never taken care of. The truck/SUV-craze profits should have been used (a) to align capacity with demand in NA and (b) to have money flowing into the development of cars as a hedging strategy against a downturn in truck/SUV demand. GM just rode the profit wave and was not aggressive enough during the good times. Now that things are getting tougher, it's just easier to ask Washington for money and blame the politicians there if the NA operation goes down.

2 years ago I was quite optimistic re GM, now... well... not much so... so much potential wasted over the last 40 years...

[Oracle of Delphi]

That is apparently GMEs plan... To eventually either sell 14 versions of the same car (Like GM did in the 80s & 90s)

-or-

Have a "GM epsilon model", "GM delta model", etc.

Please, in future, when you refer to GME's Plan(s), don't forget to put the word Master, between the words GME's and Plan(s).

[prinzSD]

That's just the problem, hardly anyone here does. Hardly anyone will touch the Astra with a ten-foot pole, despite reasonable reviews. No-one bought the Vectra either, the Zafira didn't last, the Corsa is long gone, and the Astra is all that's left. Pretty soon that will be gone too.

Exactly, I have seen a grand total of 2 AZZtra since it's intoduction, 1 where I live in Antioch and the other in San Luis Obispo, California. I'd say it is a flop and we get all this nonsence of how Holden/Pontiacs don't sell..and this coming from a former Saturn owner. Saturn and Opel are the brand they should kill not Pontiac.

[prinzSD]

You can keep it, along with that Toyota clone you call Insignia - we don't want it.

And those aholes in Europe are supposed to bet better at designing cars...please, pass the vanilla, I am not buying.

[Oracle of Delphi]

And those aholes in Europe are supposed to bet better at designing cars...please, pass the vanilla, I am not buying.

Oh I think after Friday, you better get use to vanilla.

[daves87rs]

Oh I think after Friday, you better get use to vanilla.

Well, if that's true,we can kiss GMNA goodbye...Toyota is already the best at that.

When I talked to someone who bought the new Malibu because it looked "cool", I'm thinking GM might be on to something.

Then again, with the changes that are coming......

[FAPTurbo]

Why do 'bland' when Toyota already does it better?

[z28luvr01]

Oh I think after Friday, you better get use to vanilla.

Am I missing something? Does metal cost more if it's shaped into a good looking car?

[Paolino]

Am I missing something? Does metal cost more if it's shaped into a good looking car?

Well, might have to settle for poorer designers in this financial crisis :AH-HA_wink:

[fightingbee]

Am I missing something? Does metal cost more if it's shaped into a good looking car?

No, it's just not usually shaped into a good looking car if GMDAT was the designer. :twocents:

BTW: the Buick MILANAURA in the first post is quite spiffy.

Edited November 7, 2008 by fightingbee

[prinzSD]

Am I missing something? Does metal cost more if it's shaped into a good looking car?

Apperently it must cost them too much...idiots. Looks like Ford may end up getting my business if GM keeps this up.

[ToniCipriani]

Well to be honest, there is not much love between Opel and Holden, so maybe it's for the best. It will give y'all a chance to enjoy GMDAT.

Cruze/Lacetti... I'll take that over a Cobalt.