Did McCain lose your vote....

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm not being combatitive.....I just really don't see how or why SO many people are SO overly supportive of this man.......and SO against McCain.....

It's like partisan-ship at it's worst.....or so it seems.....

FWIW-

I don't like how negative his campaign is, I don't like him from a policy point of view, don't trust him on the war (I have a son who is almost draft age) don't trust his ethics, don't hear any real ideas from the man.

I'd be open to voting for a Republican... but I've been following this thing for months and McCain just hasn't given me any real reason from a policy or leadership point of view to vote for him.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

As I've said before, if McCain of 2000 were running, I would have a difficult choice. It would have been a difficult choice in 2000 if it were McCain v. Gore. His actions since then have been erratic and against just about every core principle he claims to possess.

+1

Chris. I actually really liked him in 2000. What is interesting is that I am reading some political books right now that were written 3-7 years ago, mostly from a liberal point of view.

A lot of liberals back then really liked McCain. It would indeed be interesting if the McCain of 2000 was running now.

Chris

[Paolino]

Arg.

I avoid discussing politics as much as I can.

I was raised very conservative Republican.

Yet Republican really doesn't suit me.

Yet Democratic doesn't suit me.

Both politicians are morons.

Both sides blow.

Yet, I honestly have to start looking out for myself, and McCain/Palin are 100% against me.

Obama, well, he has many things I'm against, but less against me than the others.

[Enzora]

McCain never had my vote. Even before Palin came along, he has been playing good cop/bad cop with his underlings. Palin made it much more obvious.

[A Horse With No Name]

Arg.

Yet, I honestly have to start looking out for myself, and McCain/Palin are 100% against me.

You are quite right, sir.

Chris

[The O.C.]

FWIW-

I don't like how negative his campaign is, I don't like him from a policy point of view, don't trust him on the war (I have a son who is almost draft age) don't trust his ethics, don't hear any real ideas from the man.

I'd be open to voting for a Republican... but I've been following this thing for months and McCain just hasn't given me any real reason from a policy or leadership point of view to vote for him.

Chris

But you haven't told me, or convinced me why Obama is a better choice......or even a good choice at that.......you've just told me what you dislike about McCain.....

It may be the "lesser" of the evils.....I'll admit that.....but I see Obama as the far bigger "evil" in this case.....

[The O.C.]

Arg.

I avoid discussing politics as much as I can.

I was raised very conservative Republican.

Yet Republican really doesn't suit me.

Yet Democratic doesn't suit me.

Both politicians are morons.

Both sides blow.

Yet, I honestly have to start looking out for myself, and McCain/Palin are 100% against me.

Obama, well, he has many things I'm against, but less against me than the others.

Are you primarily talking about gay rights, Paulie?

'Cause Obama isn't going to do anything more for you than McCain would.....he made that pretty apparent in the debate when asked....

[A Horse With No Name]

In some ways your right it is the lesser of two evils. However, even if Obama is terrible, I still feel like he is a step in the right direction.

We need to start working on-

1. Environment

2. Deficiet/debt reduction

3. Alternative energy

4. Dplomacy, esp. in the middle east

5. Education

6. Health care

7. Equal rights fro minorities

8. Rights for gay people

9. Support for the working class

All of which have been a part of the democratic way of thinking for a long time. Even if all we do is get the discussion started on these, it is a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Chris

[Chris_Doane]

I'm not being combatitive.....I just really don't see how or why SO many people are SO overly supportive of this man.......and SO against McCain.....

It's like partisan-ship at it's worst.....or so it seems.....

It boils down to intelligence for me, not political parties.

We tried the whole "Joe-sixpack, guy we'd like to have a beer with" President for 8 years. Like I said before, the McCain of 2000 was great. I wish I knew why he sold his soul to Karl Rove.

Barack is a pretty smart guy. You don't get to be editor, then president, of the Harvard Law Review without being a pretty bright person. Nevermind graduating magna cum laude. If you think that's elitist, well, good. I love the people who claim elitism as a negative quality. If there is one thing the President needs to be, it damn well better be elite. Best of the best? Hell yes that's who I want running the country. People go off course with the elitist thing because they confuse or manipulate the meaning. There is elitism with inflated egos and looking down upon the common man. Then there are people who are just generally very bright, intelligent people. People who really are just flat out smarter than most. To me, Barack is the latter.

It is certainly true that Obama doesn't have the experience that McCain has. What gives me comfort is that I know Obama is smart enough to surround himself with exceptional people who would be more informed on certain topics than he is. People with valuable opinions that he'll listen to and learn from. I'm pretty confident there would never be any Alberto Gonzalez or Harriet Miers or "heck of job" Brownie's in an Obama administration.

Intelligence and open-mindedness. That's what I'm voting for.

I'm certainly not saying McCain is a dimwit. But after listening to and watching these guys for the last year, I feel like Obama is the smarter, more together guy.

Also, to get back to the original topic of this thread, I have to question the intelligence of ANYONE that would choose a person such as Palin as a running mate. This woman is not an exceptional person and not the kind of person we need running the country. Im NOT saying she is a bad person. She is certainly a likable person with a great personality. I suspect this is the main reason some people like her.

[Drew Dowdell]

What's probably the biggest domestic issue we have right now?

The economy.....

Can you defend how Obama's policies will do anything to reverse the tide? Seriously?

In my opinion, the stronger you make business (big AND small) the more people you employee, or keep employeed.....his policies work against business in just about every facet....

You have a dead economy, then it really doesn't matter how many social programs you intend to introduce.....there will be no one to pay for them (and yes that's you and me paying for them.)

"Spread the wealth! Spread the wealth! Spread the wealth!" I just love it.

And thanks, Joe, for informing us how Obama will be "tested" by a national disaster once he's in office.....that gives me plenty of calm too....

wtf?

1. McCain's Spend and Spend policy will put this country in an even worse position. Run away inflation with a plumeting dollar will be the cause. When Warren Buffet and Paul Volker (the guy who really ended Stagflation, not Reagan) support Obama's economic policies.... I'm going to err on the side of Paul and Warren. Who does McCain have as an economic adviser? Phil Gramm... the guy who engineered the law that helped make this financial mess possible.

2. Clinton tax rates didn't "spread the wealth". Returning to them won't either.

3. The next President, regardless of who it is, will be tested in the first 6 months. Obama's calm, cool, thoughtful, character is who I want at the helm. Not someone who is going to jerk the wheel right for no good reason.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not being combatitive.....I just really don't see how or why SO many people are SO overly supportive of this man.......and SO against McCain.....

It's like partisan-ship at it's worst.....or so it seems.....

I used to be at least open to the idea of McCain. His actions over the past 24 months have soured me to him. He has become a hypocrite, dishonest, and dishonorable.

John McCain of 2000 I could have voted for.

[Drew Dowdell]

but I see Obama as the far bigger "evil" in this case.....

You need to explain why.

1. We've debunked your "not a citizen" claim.

2. "Pals around with terrorists" - served on a board with a former, washed up terrorist

3. "Supports voter registration fraud with ACORN" - no he doesn't. Every suspect voter registration form that ACORN notices is flagged and sent to the SoS for verification. Even if a few rogue acorns registered Micky Mouse, will Mickey show up to vote? I think not. Voter registration fraud is a red herring.

So... what else scares you about him?

[Paolino]

Are you primarily talking about gay rights, Paulie?

'Cause Obama isn't going to do anything more for you than McCain would.....he made that pretty apparent in the debate when asked....

Oh, no no... not gay rights. I realize I'm f@#$ed with either candidate in that regard.

[Hudson]

This can't be just a democrat/republican thing.....this guy didn't even EXIST in the spotlight until before he began his run for the presidency....

My sole problem with Obama is that he was in the spotlight before he ran for president. It was like the Democratic party picked him to be the candidate four years ago. He spoke at the Democratic convention in 2004.

[Hudson]

But this guy is bad news all the way.....mark my words.....

I said the same thing about Bush in 2000. The difference is that I turned out to be overwhelmingly right.

[A Horse With No Name]

I said the same thing about Bush in 2000. The difference is that I turned out to be overwhelmingly right.

+1

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

I said the same thing about Bush in 2000. The difference is that I turned out to be overwhelmingly right.

+2

[Drew Dowdell]

My sole problem with Obama is that he was in the spotlight before he ran for president. It was like the Democratic party picked him to be the candidate four years ago. He spoke at the Democratic convention in 2004.

I think Hillary would have something to say about that.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think Hillary would have something to say about that.

And Bill Clinton too.

[Robert Hall]

It boils down to intelligence for me, not political parties.

We tried the whole "Joe-sixpack, guy we'd like to have a beer with" President for 8 years. Like I said before, the McCain of 2000 was great. I wish I knew why he sold his soul to Karl Rove.

Barack is a pretty smart guy. You don't get to be editor, then president, of the Harvard Law Review without being a pretty bright person. Nevermind graduating magna cum laude. If you think that's elitist, well, good. I love the people who claim elitism as a negative quality. If there is one thing the President needs to be, it damn well better be elite. Best of the best? Hell yes that's who I want running the country. People go off course with the elitist thing because they confuse or manipulate the meaning. There is elitism with inflated egos and looking down upon the common man. Then there are people who are just generally very bright, intelligent people. People who really are just flat out smarter than most. To me, Barack is the latter.

It is certainly true that Obama doesn't have the experience that McCain has. What gives me comfort is that I know Obama is smart enough to surround himself with exceptional people who would be more informed on certain topics than he is. People with valuable opinions that he'll listen to and learn from. I'm pretty confident there would never be any Alberto Gonzalez or Harriet Miers or "heck of job" Brownie's in an Obama administration.

Intelligence and open-mindedness. That's what I'm voting for.

+1. Very well stated, sir. This summarizes quite well the qualities of Obama that I like.

McCain on his own--esp. McCain of 2000--- seems more capable of the job than Bush ever did, IMHO. But adding Palin to the equation skews the ticket to the far right.... which is 100% against me and my views...I view the evangelical social conservative right as hypocritical, intolerant, anti-science, anti-progress. This is coming from living around and working with some of them over the last 10 years...the Colorado Springs 'Focus on the Family' crowd is scary as hell. I want nothing to do with supporting those people and fear for the nation if they are in power.

Rob

Edited October 29, 2008 by moltar

[siegen]

McCain would have had to select an incredible running mate, as well as had a different campaign, in order to secure my vote. When Palin was selected, I was already 70% sure I was not voting for McCain. She wasn't the only thing that sealed the deal, but a part of it.

[gm4life]

I agree with the OC again. Doesn't the mans "friends" or people he worked with bother anyone? Rev. Wright and listening to God Damn America for 20 plus years? Then saying he could not denounce Wright anymore than the could the black community... Then he denounced Wright. Doing whatever it takes to get him into office. Again the Bill Ayers issue we need to know the whole relationship behind Obama and a domestic terriost with no regret. Those aren't liberal friends or democratic friends those are extremist people to surround yourself with. The American people deserve to know. Also in the same stroke Obama cutting 95% of the folks taxes sounds great but when 40% of the folks don't pay income tax it is just a welfare check. Redistrubiting the wealth is not the goverments job, that is something statisfied by private donations and charitable organizations. The less taxes on everyone including small and large buisness is good for job creation. What does a tax cut mean when you have no job. If Obama wants to keep all his promises and balance a budget everyones taxes will have to go up. Unchecked with people like Nancy at his side and Barney Frank I would be very scared where this country would go. Doesn't the idea that he has admitted to a few times spearding the wealth around bother anyone? I am seeing more and more parrells to him and Hitler no kidding. Folks when it comes down to character McCain has it, and has the experince to serve this country, thta for me is ultimately what it comes down too. I could have voted for Hillary FYI. It is sickening that people don't understand that mans extreme stance and dangerous agenda and unchecked this country will be f*cked. Especially are high performance cars. McCain says make serve punishments for CAFE and Obama says raise fuel economy by 4% each year... Hmmm wonder which I'd rather have? This $h! about Palin and the media screwing her and McCain to a lesser extent over is B.S. just like GM gets screwed over, I thought most of you on here could see past the bull$h! and pretty words. In this election its not about voting because you hate Bush or republicans it is voting for the best man. I don't love McCain nor always agree with him but he is truly a man of honor always having put Country First. Keep in mind its not what the goverment can do for me, but what I can do for the goverment. In our twisted world people seem to want handouts and other peoples money instead of being self motivated and pulling oneself up by the boot straps and going it alone... Others have done it why can you? I want the goverment out of my life and 401K not in it.

[gm4life]

What about public financing it was a good idea when he was the long short when he realized he could raise more and have a Barack-Omercial it all changed he didn't keep his promise doesn't that bother folks too? Guess not were all to busy blamning it all on Bush and some of it was his fault but look at Barney Frank whom mislead people and Chris Dodd whom did nothing. Sad day and if one team like John and Sarah get in there get domestic drilling happening, nuclear power, freeze spending and balance this budget we will all be better off along with tax cuts for everyone not just most everyone. Oh and big evil compaines don't pay tax like Obama says and he wants more from them they pass the tax along to you in the form of higher prices... Duh so you still getting screwed. It still amazes me the love for this man with extreme friends, lack of a record and when his VP says he will be tested with a domestic problem that makes me sleep even better. There is no reason to test McCain because if they try he'll just kick a$$. And take names.

Edited October 29, 2008 by gm4life

[Chris_Doane]

Again the Bill Ayers issue we need to know the whole relationship behind Obama and a domestic terriost with no regret.

He told you what his relationship with Ayers was in the 3rd debate. You weren't listening.

[gm4life]

Also the real Obama when behind closed doors with his liberal friends in San Fran says people from Penn, cling to there guns and religon... Is that what he really thinks of common folks like me with guns and whom value religon apparently so.

[gm4life]

He told you what his relationship with Ayers was in the 3rd debate. You weren't listening.

He gave an answer that was basically a pass saying things we already did know... He passed it like all politcians do... Speaking of passing the media has give Obama a pass look at the difference with what happend on the view for instance.

[Chris_Doane]

He gave an answer that was basically a pass saying things we already did know... He passed it like all politcians do... Speaking of passing the media has give Obama a pass look at the difference with what happend on the view for instance.

Like I said, you weren't really listening.

[Robert Hall]

Also the real Obama when behind closed doors with his liberal friends in San Fran says people from Penn, cling to there guns and religon... Is that what he really thinks of common folks like me with guns and whom value religon apparently so.

Well, from my experience, with some in my own family in Ohio, that statement was dead on accurate..there are a lot of people out there in rural America and the small towns where the economy is weak, no job prospects besides Wal-Mart, and some of them do cling to their guns and religion out of desperation, bitter and angry at the modern, post-industrial world they can't understand and can't participate in, left behind by a fast moving and evolving world. It's a sad situation.

[Drew Dowdell]

I agree with the OC again. Doesn't the mans "friends" or people he worked with bother anyone? Rev. Wright and listening to God Damn America for 20 plus years? Then saying he could not denounce Wright anymore than the could the black community... Then he denounced Wright. Doing whatever it takes to get him into office. Again the Bill Ayers issue we need to know the whole relationship behind Obama and a domestic terriost with no regret.

You're being a hypocrite. Phil Gramm, Ted Stevens, the rest of the Keating 5, William Timmons - Saddam's former lobbyist, Sarah Palin's pastor does exorcisms, Sarah Palin's husband is a former secessionist,

As for the rest.... please format your posts, it's hard enough to make sense of them as it is.

[Drew Dowdell]

Also the real Obama when behind closed doors with his liberal friends in San Fran says people from Penn, cling to there guns and religon... Is that what he really thinks of common folks like me with guns and whom value religon apparently so.

When people have nothing left, that's what they cling to. You're twisting his words.

[Drew Dowdell]

He gave an answer that was basically a pass saying things we already did know... He passed it like all politcians do... Speaking of passing the media has give Obama a pass look at the difference with what happend on the view for instance.

Since you weren't listening, and I suspect you won't read this post anyway, but here it goes

Transcript on Ayers from the 3rd debate:

OBAMA: Bob, I think it's going to be important to just -- I'll respond to these two particular allegations that Senator McCain has made and that have gotten a lot of attention.

In fact, Mr. Ayers has become the centerpiece of Senator McCain's campaign over the last two or three weeks. This has been their primary focus. So let's get the record straight. Bill Ayers is a professor of education in Chicago.

Forty years ago, when I was 8 years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago he served and I served on a school reform board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg.

Other members on that board were the presidents of the University of Illinois, the president of Northwestern University, who happens to be a Republican, the president of The Chicago Tribune, a Republican- leaning newspaper.

Mr. Ayers is not involved in my campaign. He has never been involved in this campaign. And he will not advise me in the White House. So that's Mr. Ayers.

Now, with respect to ACORN, ACORN is a community organization. Apparently what they've done is they were paying people to go out and register folks, and apparently some of the people who were out there didn't really register people, they just filled out a bunch of names.

It had nothing to do with us. We were not involved. The only involvement I've had with ACORN was I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department in making Illinois implement a motor voter law that helped people get registered at DMVs.

Now, the reason I think that it's important to just get these facts out is because the allegation that Senator McCain has continually made is that somehow my associations are troubling.

Let me tell you who I associate with. On economic policy, I associate with Warren Buffett and former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker. If I'm interested in figuring out my foreign policy, I associate myself with my running mate, Joe Biden or with Dick Lugar, the Republican ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, or General Jim Jones, the former supreme allied commander of NATO.

Those are the people, Democrats and Republicans, who have shaped my ideas and who will be surrounding me in the White House. And I think the fact that this has become such an important part of your campaign, Senator McCain, says more about your campaign than it says about me.

[The O.C.]

You need to explain why.

1. We've debunked your "not a citizen" claim.

2. "Pals around with terrorists" - served on a board with a former, washed up terrorist

3. "Supports voter registration fraud with ACORN" - no he doesn't. Every suspect voter registration form that ACORN notices is flagged and sent to the SoS for verification. Even if a few rogue acorns registered Micky Mouse, will Mickey show up to vote? I think not. Voter registration fraud is a red herring.

So... what else scares you about him?

I've stated many times......I think he's a snake....and I don't trust him one bit.....

I TRULY don't like his tax policies.....I TRULY don't like his proposals on social spending.....I REALLY don't like the idea that we need to tax the rich more in order to give more to the poor. Everything I've seen and read from him tells me he is about as far-left of a democrat as you could get.....even Hillary was way more moderate (IMHO) and that's one of the reasons I might have voted for Hillary....

I don't really care where he went to college or how "smart" he is. That doesn't mean he is going to make the right decisions for this country....or lead us in the right direction. That doesn't influence me in the least.....

Frankly, I don't think he's cut out to handle our best interests overseas either. Regardless of what you think we should do about Iraq.

And finally, I don't believe he is as distanced from Muslim or Islamic interests as he has somehow convinced everyone he is. I don't think there is a Christian bone in his body from that regard.....and perhaps that is the part that scares me the absolute most.

Extremists on the right have suggested even that he is the ultimate "plant".....a way to destroy our country from within. Even I would agree that's an extremist viewpoint.....but you know what? Deep down I'm scared of that possibility.

Finally, I don't think it's a good idea AT ALL to have a government without any proper checks-and-balances. And with a democrat in the white house doing the bidding for a democratic congress......that just spells big, ugly, mess to me. Obama will basically be in a position to "rubber-stamp" any democratic proposal, no matter how taxing or spendy it may be, that comes across his desk.

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, from my experience, with some in my own family in Ohio, that statement was dead on accurate..there are a lot of people out there in rural America and the small towns where the economy is weak, no job prospects besides Wal-Mart, and some of them do cling to their guns and religion out of desperation, bitter and angry at the modern, post-industrial world they can't understand and can't participate in, left behind by a fast moving and evolving world. It's a sad situation.

+1

Chris

[ocnblu]

Well, I appreciate all the input from everyone in this thread. McCain/Palin it is for me!

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, I appreciate all the input from everyone in this thread. McCain/Palin it is for me!

Just glad to see that your voting.

And I hope we are all still friends after the election. GM4Life and I may disagree about McCain...but we both love GM cars.

GM FTW!

Chris

[siegen]

And finally, I don't believe he is as distanced from Muslim or Islamic interests as he has somehow convinced everyone he is. I don't think there is a Christian bone in his body from that regard.....and perhaps that is the part that scares me the absolute most.

Extremists on the right have suggested even that he is the ultimate "plant".....a way to destroy our country from within. Even I would agree that's an extremist viewpoint.....but you know what? Deep down I'm scared of that possibility.

This is exactly how the people spewing out FUD about Obama want you to feel. Take a second and step back, look at this with a rational mind. Do you really think he is somehow working for secret Islamic and Muslin interests? Why? Because he spent 2 or 3 years as a pre-teen in an Islamic school? Because Republican advertisements have told you so?

Do you think he's going to screw us all over just because he isn't as Christian as another politician?

Do you really think it's a remote possibility that extremists have "planted" him here to destroy our country? Really? The chances of McCain being brain washed during his time as POW are more likely IMHO, and I think that's as silly of a notion as it gets.

[Chris_Doane]

And finally, I don't believe he is as distanced from Muslim or Islamic interests as he has somehow convinced everyone he is. I don't think there is a Christian bone in his body from that regard.....and perhaps that is the part that scares me the absolute most.

Extremists on the right have suggested even that he is the ultimate "plant".....a way to destroy our country from within. Even I would agree that's an extremist viewpoint.....but you know what? Deep down I'm scared of that possibility.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If you honestly believe he could be some sort of Al Qaeda "plant" or something along those lines.... then you my friend are not well.

Honestly not trying to mean, Im just at a loss for any other way to put it.

[gm4life]

Just glad to see that your voting.

And I hope we are all still friends after the election. GM4Life and I may disagree about McCain...but we both love GM cars.

GM FTW!

Chris

You darn right we do. :AH-HA_wink:

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Gm4life your sig is really big.

Anywho i dont even know why im voting, its not like it will affect my states choice.

Oh well, i got other important issues to vote on, such as mayor

Edited October 29, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[The O.C.]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If you honestly believe he could be some sort of Al Qaeda "plant" or something along those lines.... then you my friend are not well.

Honestly not trying to mean, Im just at a loss for any other way to put it.

First of all, that was ONE thing I mentioned....and I admitted I agreed it was an extremist viewpoint. But let me play devil's advocate and ask YOU.....with all the tension in recent times over the middle east and their extreme hatred of us.....how can you even remotely know that this might not be a possibility?

Tell me....convince me....how CAN you rule that possibility out......completely......?

Back back to my more mainstream concerns......I notice none of you had a serious rebuttle for all the other issues I brought up......

Edited October 29, 2008 by The O.C.

[trinacriabob]

I don't really care where he went to college or how "smart" he is. That doesn't mean he is going to make the right decisions for this country....or lead us in the right direction.

And finally, I don't believe he is as distanced from Muslim or Islamic interests as he has somehow convinced everyone he is. I don't think there is a Christian bone in his body from that regard.....and perhaps that is the part that scares me the absolute most.

I'm very perplexed on the whole thing. Right now, I'd take Hillary, if she had a decent running mate...and I hate her.

Point 1 - that's right, even W went to Harvard...W went to their B-school and O went to their law school.

Point 2 - it crosses my mind every now and then, too...look at the funky Chrisitian church he hooked up with.

Sidebar: I'm walking into Mass on Sunday and there is a Mexican contingent in the parish...as "Anglo" as I look, they were speaking Spanish...I heard them say something like "if Obama wins, there will be 'amnestia' (you know, Spanish for amnesty)" ... just great, just great...

[Drew Dowdell]

Extremists on the right have suggested even that he is the ultimate "plant".....a way to destroy our country from within.

I thought men like you were usually called a fruit.

[Croc]

But let me play devil's advocate and ask YOU.....with all the tension in recent times over the middle east and their extreme hatred of us.....how can you even remotely know that this might not be a possibility?

Tell me....convince me....how CAN you rule that possibility out......completely......?

Because as we have clearly seen from Sarah Palin, when a complete unknown is running for office, they receive a very speedy and thorough vetting. Obama isn't an unknown. Anyone telling you or believing otherwise just has not been paying attention. Obama has been running for 2 years, and many could legitimately claim he has been running since 2004. He has already been a public figure for years, and his roots as a community organizer seem to preclude him from being some kind of Al Quaida plant. Do you think Al Quaida would have been invested in this man for all of the years he has been in the public eye on the gamble that in 20 years he'd be running for President? Really? Seriously?

Also, if you don't think he's a Christian, and doesn't have a Christian bone in his body--which by the way, is extremely hypocritical for a Christian to accuse another Christian, not to mention against many, many passages in the Bible--how do you explain the Rev. Wright mini-saga? Do you think a Muslim would forgo services to go to church in order to take part in a multi-decade charade? Really? You worry about this?

Ask your doctor if Xanax is right for you.

[Enzora]

First of all, that was ONE thing I mentioned....and I admitted I agreed it was an extremist viewpoint. But let me play devil's advocate and ask YOU.....with all the tension in recent times over the middle east and their extreme hatred of us.....how can you even remotely know that this might not be a possibility?

Tell me....convince me....how CAN you rule that possibility out......completely......?

Back back to my more mainstream concerns......I notice none of you had a serious rebuttle for all the other issues I brought up......

WTF, dude? You're relying on the fallacy of negative proof. The best you can ever get is 0% proof that your statement is true, not 100% proof that it's not. And the evidence that Obama is somehow a secret Islamic terrorist is right around. . .wait for it. . . yep, zero.

$h!, I could assert that McCain developed Stockholm Syndrome in Vietnam and has been secretly working for the Vietnamese against the US all these years, and you couldn't rule the possibility out completely.

When you try to make that argument, it really makes it look like you're grasping at straws to justify why you feel uncomfortable about the possibility of Obama being our president.

[Chris_Doane]

First of all, that was ONE thing I mentioned....and I admitted I agreed it was an extremist viewpoint. But let me play devil's advocate and ask YOU.....with all the tension in recent times over the middle east and their extreme hatred of us.....how can you even remotely know that this might not be a possibility?

Tell me....convince me....how CAN you rule that possibility out......completely......?

Back back to my more mainstream concerns......I notice none of you had a serious rebuttle for all the other issues I brought up......

I couldn't convince you of anything if I tried for days on end. I mean really we're all just kind of wasting our breath here.

He isn't a muslim extremist. He isn't from the middle east. He's from Hawaii.

See for yourself:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

As for rebutting your claims...well like I just said we're all just sort of spinning our wheels here. Though Im sure Drew has already addressed the other issues recently. I notice you had no rebuttle when I shot down your citizenship claim?

[Drew Dowdell]

Back back to my more mainstream concerns......I notice none of you had a serious rebuttle for all the other issues I brought up......

You discredit yourself with the crackpot $h!.

Remember how we used to treat Buickman? He is a crackpot even if the occasional idea of his ideas have merit.