LIGHTER THREAD

[regfootball]

Enough political BS

Let's get light.

Here's some advice i need.

My 500 lease goes back in a week or so. To cover myself in the wake of a scarce credit scenario, I bought a used Taurus X a couple months ago. Now it seems like a good move. So, replacing my 500 is done, and I don't have to be forced into a bad deal now, when credit is tight and good deals are also few as well.

The thing is now I am driving the 2004 Aztek. Wife has the new rig. The dilemma I face is its a nice daily driver. Quiet, spacious, 20 mpg, functional. Drives like a dump truck and its not fun per se, but its a good cruiser. Its in decent shape. More on that in a bit.

It has 95,000 miles on it now. Its been trouble free. It had wheel bearing fixed under warranty and that's it. Tires and brakes at about 70k. Tires still look pretty good. Did radiator flush and tranny flush at 50k. Brakes have always felt weak on this vehicle and are underdesigned. I don't know if i can improve this.

I owe about 3k money on it and think I can sell it for 6-7k on the open market now. Once it crosses 100k, the value drops and its hard for a buyer to get money on a vehicle over 100k.

I've revisited the notion of the keeping it and driving it into the ground, what with it close to being paid off. At the same time, the struts need to be replaced as its riding tough. Aside from that it will likely need general maintenance to keep long term. Tune up and plugs, radiator and tranny flush....electrical and A/C check, fuel system change filter. Belts, hoses, etc.

And dear God, it needs a stereo and speakers. the stock unit is dreadful. Aftermarket units now have USB and bluetooth to make in car tech easier.

The body's in good shape. A couple dings, but it looks great otherwise. The car has heated seats installed and remote start so its a champ in winter.

I'm torn on whether to dump money into the vehicle which is otherwise riding fine. If i invest in the maintenance and struts then I need to pay it off and drive it 2-3 years.

My other recent scenario was that i had all but purchased a new Astra, and I would have sold the Aztek. The Astra is fun and woulld have been cheap to operate with better mpg and a friendly payment. GM pulled incentives on that car now, and I am screwed. I have a nice lease offer sitting out there on a demo 9-3 combi but its an automatic. GM is offering me an extra 2k on my competitive lease ending soon and that offer ends when i turn my lease in. There is also a G6 I can buy at a great price and that car is a good inexpensive ride as well. Ford has no good deals.

So i need to decide in a week or so if I take advantage of any newer rides out there, or sink 2 grand into the tek and drive that for 2-3 years and 30-45k miles.

The total incentives GM has for me right now is 4500 dollars extra (lease end incentive and GM card)

Just want some points of view on this. I hate spending money on cars. But i hate spending money on maintenance and fixing them even more. Whatdya think?

Edited October 16, 2008 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

Put ads out on Craigslist and any other free site you can think of to try and sell it, but act as if you're going to keep it forever. i.e. get the stuff done to it that needs to get done.

but I'm confused.... is the Aztek a lease or a loan?

[regfootball]

loan. maybe a year worth of payments left. i could pay it off in cash right now if i wanted to.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you can get 6k for it now, your total down on a new car would be 7,500. You could put that toward any GM under 35k and get a decent finance deal. I don't know what kind of car you're looking for though...

[daves87rs]

Reg, I would keep it.

I've been thinking about the same thing with the Cobalt, as I am paying this thing off in a hurry.

I would really like something with 4 door....but my sprout seems to really enjoy that up and close together ride (mine is a 2dr)

But with all of our cars being in good shape (the oldest- the wife's 03 Cav-only has 48k on it), It seems to smarter to hold on to them for a while.

I would really enjoy no payments for a while (and toss some monry out for some 60s/70s GM iron)....

I am seriously thinking about a Cruze anyway, so waiting would be good.

Besides, I've been thinking about getting my hands dirty more often anyways...( I'm chaning my own brakes this time)

Speaking of Brakes, there is am upgrade package out there for the Tek'

As long as the Tek is in good shape, the repair bills should be no where near a car payment.

Save that extra money for a car that you might really want.......

[Robert Hall]

Reg, I would keep it.

As long as the Tek is in good shape, the repair bills should be no where near a car payment.

Save that extra money for a car that you might really want.......

Same thought I have with my Jeep..it's been paid for for over 3 years now, and my annual maintenance + repair cost is far less than a $500/mo car payment. My plan is pay 5 years, drive for 5 years w/o payment, then buy a new car...

I've put about $2k in maintenance in it this year (new windshield, transfer case reseal, rear wheel bearings replaced, front discs/pads, 3 oil changes, trans. fluid change, axles greased) ...equivalent to 4 months of payments. About half that last year (which incl. $750 for a set of tires).

Edited October 16, 2008 by moltar

[trinacriabob]

How's the rust factor on any of these cars considering where you live?

[A Horse With No Name]

I have a fetish for smaller, lighter cars, and to me driving the Aztec would be hell on wheels, and not in a good way.

I would either go ahead with the Astra thing, or do some (used) sport compact in really good shape.

Get a 5/6 speed SVT Focus, Cobalt SS, older Civic SI, Used Astra, used MINI, etc. these cars can all be had with good miles for good money. And they will all be cars that people will want to play with, so you should have a good resale 75-150,000 miles later when you sell it. But that's jsut me. I couldn't handle driving an Aztec.

I'm facing a similar decision myself as I will soon have two more drivers in the family.

FWIW you could also buy a used plane jane Cobalt, they are inexpensive and run well. Plus a set of Salvage yard Alloyws and some nice detailing could make one really stand out.

Chris

Edited October 16, 2008 by 66Stang

[A Horse With No Name]

...besides, I don't think you'd be test driving cars on a weekly, if not daily basis, and asking us for months for advice if your heart was in keeping the Aztec. Dump the thing, IMHO, and drive what you want. Life is too short to drive boring cars.

Chris

[CMG]

Dump the thing, IMHO, and drive what you want. Life is too short to drive boring cars.

Chris

I agree.

I would NEVER dump money into an Aztec, or ANY car in that situation- unless you truly loved the car.

Buy something that excites you...

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Edited October 16, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[GMTruckGuy74]

I'm torn with my advice reg, as I lease my vehicles because I like getting a new one every 30-36 months, but now with money being tight and car payments taking a huge chunk of our paychecks (mortgage takes the first huge chunk), I'm thinking of financing my next vehicle and taking good care of it to go a couple of years without a payment after it's all paid off (like what the wife is doing with her G6).

If there's something out there right now that you just "gotta have", then I say go for it and get it. If you want something new "just because", then I'd say hold on and drive the 'tek for now and save up for the vehicle you really want. If there isn't something out there, then be patient and see what the market does over the next couple of months. I'm assuming 2009 sales records won't be chart toppers and possibly that will mean good deals will be offered to keep some sales going each month. Then again, the market/economy could get worse and then only God knows what will happen.

A new CarSense dealership opened two Friday's ago right down the street from me. If you want to get rid of your vehicle (especially a leased one), they are open to buying it out (assuming your lease company will allow it and not try to rip them off on the price). I've been so tempted to see if they'd take the AURA off my hands, but while I love the G8 GT Sedan and desperately want a GMC Sierra (which is not economically feasible), what if I fell in love with a 2010 model and it was too late to do something about it?

Good luck with your decision!

[regfootball]

If you can get 6k for it now, your total down on a new car would be 7,500. You could put that toward any GM under 35k and get a decent finance deal. I don't know what kind of car you're looking for though...

because of cost, an astra, cavalier, HHR, G6, Aura, that's about it, if GM. Saab crept in as a possibility and an exception.

Otherwise, if the purchase price of the vehicle I want exceeds say 15k on up, i prefer to buy another make or a used Ford 08+ taurus or something. Believe me, I've even pondered getting another Mitsubishi, but I really would prefer to stay domestic.

Leasing a Jetta is one option far fetched.

I had an offer to take them up on a new loaded Astra XR....21,500 MSRP for 13,800. I balked due to some information about my work status. Now, two weeks later they tell me the car is 2500 more. Makes no sense. But whatever. F-ck GM, f-ck Saturn.

So yeah, some of GM's more basic vehicles. Once i reach a certain price threshold, it opens the door to everything non GM and i can conceivably wait a month or two or six.

The Astra's payback was much better under the 4 dollar gas model. Gas alone would save 1000 bucks a year over the not too thirsty Aztek. Now its down to 2.59.........they just keep screwing with us.

Edited October 16, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

How's the rust factor on any of these cars considering where you live?

everyone's analysis and questions are good on this thread.

Bob, there is no rust on it. GM's paint holds up the best in the salt belt of any manufacturer and I feel confident that i probably won't have it for awhile. That said, I have seen and looked at used cars in the past in this region that were 4-5 years old and had it. Once you see the first rust spot, the value of the car tanks miserably. Good question.

My sister had an 88 Beretta for like 12 years. It was a bit of a steaming pile, and she put lots of money in it, but I will say this. The sucker never got any rust on it. At least that i was aware.

[regfootball]

I have a fetish for smaller, lighter cars, and to me driving the Aztec would be hell on wheels, and not in a good way.

I would either go ahead with the Astra thing, or do some (used) sport compact in really good shape.

Get a 5/6 speed SVT Focus, Cobalt SS, older Civic SI, Used Astra, used MINI, etc. these cars can all be had with good miles for good money. And they will all be cars that people will want to play with, so you should have a good resale 75-150,000 miles later when you sell it. But that's jsut me. I couldn't handle driving an Aztec.

I'm facing a similar decision myself as I will soon have two more drivers in the family.

FWIW you could also buy a used plane jane Cobalt, they are inexpensive and run well. Plus a set of Salvage yard Alloyws and some nice detailing could make one really stand out.

Chris

more good points. If you recall Chris I mentioned the used SVT Focus I spotted with 11k on the odometer. except its a 3 door. My pause on that car is one, i don't think its got the best reliability rating, two, i am unsure if it has advance trac (I think it does) and i am fairly certain it doesn't have head side curtains. third, i actually have driven that car a few times and its noisy, and i didn't like the power delivery of it. The engine is coarse. I actually found one Focus I would rather have....an 05 or 06 Focus ST 4 door, has the 2.3 instead of that noisy 2.0, and would be less radical than the SVT.

I have looked at the HHR SS but unless i can lease it cheap its too spendy. Regular HHR would be ok. A new Cobalt might be good enough, but the Astra is so sweet in comparison to the Cobalt. To anyone who hasn't driven the Astra, go do it, its a very endearing car. I am averse to pretty much anything Japanese except Mitsubishi. The Jetta surfaced because I can lease one cheap and its a great car. I've really gotten comfy with the notion of a zippy agile and economical car for awhile. Especially since small cars are so good now. But I won't overpay for a small car, because they do not keep their value. That's why I refuse to look at the Focus. Morons are paying 16-19k for a new Focus and i swear in two years it will be worth 8 grand. That's irresponsible, despite whether it gets decent mpg or not. Keep in mind i spent 2 weeks this year driving loaner 08 Focus and its an ok car. But even after that, i refuse to overpay for something that...........(insert your own comment here).

To previous poster, I would have loved to release my second car. I won't buy the 500 out because the residual is about 4-5 grand more than auction value is on it. I was hoping there would have been a Flex lease to roll into. But the economic situation, good leasing schemes are gone from the domestic cars. I did get a lease quote on a Fusion that quite frankly sucked too and I hate the Fusion anyways. From what I can tell, Subaru and VW are the only companies with decent leasing right now. And subaru is kind of out because I don't wear flannel and watch Ellen.

Edited October 16, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

...besides, I don't think you'd be test driving cars on a weekly, if not daily basis, and asking us for months for advice if your heart was in keeping the Aztec. Dump the thing, IMHO, and drive what you want. Life is too short to drive boring cars.

Chris

test driving cars is a great hobby

oh yeah, the SX4 is a hoot, by the way. Those are a great buy also.

[pow]

Leasing a Jetta is one option far fetched.

FWIW, Sign-Then-Drive is back again... $0 down, $0 due at lease signing, $0 first month's payment

A Jetta S would be $269/mo for 39 mo, 39K mi, maintenance included

A boring car, but it's safe, practical, and it drives well.

[Sixty8panther]

[CRTL][F] "G8 GT"

--no matches--

*yawn*

[daves87rs]

I'm not so sure about the value of small cars, reg.

The value of my wife's Cav increased by about two grand in the last year.

I think there is a better chance of SUVs (TB, Tahoe) having that issue rather than small cars.

So I think you might be safe on that route....

It sounds like you like the Astra-what about a lightly loaded XE?

Or you could just wait until the credit crunch is over....

[regfootball]

[CRTL][F] "G8 GT"

--no matches--

*yawn*

g8 = too expensive for me. i might consider it otherwise. believe me, there is NO WAY to get into a g8 cheaply.

maybe i just bite on a cheap jetta or impreza lease and call it good.

[regfootball]

I'm not so sure about the value of small cars, reg.

The value of my wife's Cav increased by about two grand in the last year.

I think there is a better chance of SUVs (TB, Tahoe) having that issue rather than small cars.

So I think you might be safe on that route....

It sounds like you like the Astra-what about a lightly loaded XE?

Or you could just wait until the credit crunch is over....

nope, need the XR for the sport package. the one i was looking at was loaded, leather, twin panel roof. a base XR is as cheap as a lightly optioned XE, because the rebates WERE bigger on the XR than the XE.

if i wait beyond 10 days i lose 2 grand in competitive lease bonus. 2 grand = many car payments. actually i lose also additional GM add on bonus dollars to my GM card on 10/31 also.

but they take away the rebates on the car i wanted to buy---- dumb asses.

BTW i am preapproved with FOrd because my lease is with them right now. GM more or less also, except with the last week or so.....who knows what they are doing now to avoid lending.

If i felt like good leases would come back in a few months I would wait to lease an 09 Astra. But the way the auto business and credit is, i do not see leases coming back. And Saturn used to have tremendous leases. It was only this year now you can use GM card on saturn.

Edited October 17, 2008 by regfootball

[Sixty8panther]

g8 = too expensive for me. i might consider it otherwise. believe me, there is NO WAY to get into a g8 cheaply.

maybe i just bite on a cheap jetta or impreza lease and call it good.

understood.

I vote for neither Jetta or Subby.... how about G6?

[regfootball]

understood.

I vote for neither Jetta or Subby.... how about G6?

the G6 isn't a bad car. even with the 4 cylinder its a nice car, but i don't care much for the interior or the exterior look of the G6. but it drives well. I actually prefer the Aura to the G6.

[A Horse With No Name]

everyone's analysis and questions are good on this thread.

Bob, there is no rust on it. GM's paint holds up the best in the salt belt of any manufacturer and I feel confident that i probably won't have it for awhile. That said, I have seen and looked at used cars in the past in this region that were 4-5 years old and had it. Once you see the first rust spot, the value of the car tanks miserably. Good question.

My sister had an 88 Beretta for like 12 years. It was a bit of a steaming pile, and she put lots of money in it, but I will say this. The sucker never got any rust on it. At least that i was aware.

Ditto on the GM paint thing. My Safari van looked good until the day that I sold it, and it never spent a night indoors through 11 Ohio winters.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually I think you really do like less radical cars than I do. I could drive a focus that's about one step removed from Colin Mcrae's Rally car and I'd be happy.

Agree that the Astra could use more power.

Jetta is a decent and under-rated car.

Let's take a different tack. For about 20K you can buy (at least around here) a pristine very low mile G6 convertible/retractable. Room for kiddo, top goes down, its fun, it does a lot well...

Also, have you thought about a used CTS? A co worker was looking at a very nice low mile (sub 20K) that was a few years old and it was in the teens, price wise.

I still think a MINI would be cool for you, but it really probably isn't your speed. I just happen to love them personally...

Chris

[regfootball]

yeah of all the cars i have ever test drove, the CTS is likely my fave (pre 08 even, on the same day as a BMW drive). that said, its RWD, which always gives me a bit of pause with the weather around here.

I'm just not hip enough for a mini. Really, the Astra was the right blend of sport and everyday usability as far as compacts. It feels so nice, i was willing to overlook its creature comfort deficits and lack of power. the engine was revvable and flexible. happy to cruise at 80mph, even if its loud, its not coarse.

jetta's nice, but has a choppiness to the ride i did not like. the astra hopped less. even if the jetta felt more hefty, i didn't like the 5 cylinder or the mpg it gets. Passat drives nice and has a great shifter, but i hate the interior.

SX4 was a hoot, but more like a 4 door motorcycle than anything and the front quarter windows feel spooky.

XL7, quite possibly the junkiest feeling vehicle i have driven in a long time (and it has the 3.6!!!)

9-3 really is a nice car. the 4 is better suited to the car than the 6. the 6 gets nose heavy and has more lag. the saab 2.0 motor is a real gem and the shifter is like butter. seat is comfy and the dash is very intimate.

fusion, sucks. every mazda6 i have driven i have not liked either.

all the epsilon cars are good drives. the 4 cylinder is a great motor.

galant is a good car. its marred by a cheap interior, but its a lively drive, 4 or 6.

magnum, love it. had one as a loaner once and another test drive confirmed i like the car a lot. RWD though. the actual deal breaker is the claustrophobic interior. plus the wheelbase feels long on the car.

i only have driven the cobalt once i think, but i remember thinking it was solid....compared to the cavalier of course.

the 08 focus is a very good commuter car. however, the new one on its way soon is a good thing.

from what i remember of the mazda3 its a nice car, but again as with nearly all mazdas there is something about it i just don't take to.

G8, the v8 is slick but i thought the ride was a a bit too stiff and the car felt large (it is, duh). the v6 powertrain was unrefined which was a real downer. the g8's cockpit is nice and personal, they did a good job with that.

latest sebring, one of the most unexciting and crappy drives i have ever taken. Let me lump the Nitro in with that. both really bad. conversely, i liked the 4.0 pacifica and the 300 SRT8. (i did a chrysler ride and drive awhile back). Grand Cherokee SRT felt fat and i did not like the steering. whole thing felt cheap. dodge caliber was terrible.

Impala SS, for 300hp and v8 you think it would be a little fun, but honestly with the cheap interior, flat seats, 4 speed auto, etc.....i did not like it at all.

09 Escape with v6 was a surprise, powertrain was very good and the handling very good also....blows away the RAV4. had a RAV4 as a rental once and i could not wait to get out of it.

didn't like the new accord. felt like it was flimsy. i simply don't like hondas.

the sonata rental i had a few months back was ok. the interior was barforama (pre 08) but it drove ok and was decently refined. not a car you'd lust after.

my father in law's 08 grand prix feels unique. if you never drive anything else, the grand prix feels solid and sporty and all of that but its got a lot of negatives also. the w body really needs to die. i had driven an aura 4 cylinder the same day i drove the FIL's grand prix and i would drive the aura hands down every day before the 6 cyl grand prix.

Jetta diesel TDI....yes, the new one......was 'ok' but the DSG weirded me out and as good as the motor is for a diesel, if you like cars at all, you'll want a gas motor.

let me see, what else.

i will say, that GM does make cars that to me stand out, but usually there is one deal breaker in there that seals its fate. for example on the g6, its the bad interior. the g8 v6, it was the unrefined powertrain. etc.

Edited October 17, 2008 by regfootball

[GMTruckGuy74]

reg, could you enlighten me about your concenrs with RWD cars? I live in southern NJ, and while snow is a concern, we don't get enoughof it during the winter where I think I'd be concerned about having a RWD vehicle. I really want a G8 GT if I'm sticking with a car, but I begin to doubt my choice after reading your posts. Is there concern with driving in the rain too?

On a positve note, when it does snow bad I usually have off from work (teacher FTW!); however, I really like the 19" rims on the G8 GT but they come with summer-only tires and there won't be money leftover for a rim/winter tire change-out. So if I do decide to go with the G8 GT (or if the 3.6L DI V6 is out when I'm in the market), I'll just not be happy with the standard 18" rim. I really hesitate there with the RWD set-up because while snow is not usually that bad, summer tires in the snow just plain out suck

[regfootball]

had plenty of RWD cars in minnesota/northdakota blizzards. last one was a 95 tbird with blizzaks.

at the same time i had that tbird i got my first FWD car. my SHO, and since them my strong preference for ease of winter driving (like most folks in this region) is FWD. That first SHO i had was an absolute animal in the snow.

a car like the magnum or G8 i might remain open to the possibility again of RWD with snows and stability control, but having snows in the garage is extra expense and hassle, and it still isn't ideal, FWD is still better. My driveway has a pretty good slope too. there is plenty of icy days here. And my wife prob wouldn't go for it.

nearly everyone i know here avoids RWD like the plague. if they do have a RWD car, its a summer toy, they'll garage it in winter. None of us can have extra cars for toys. Part of the reason the Chrysler cars drop in price so much late in the year here is they rot on the lots from november through april.

My best RWD car i drove in winter was my 77 century coupe. It had a short wheel base and had a light front end / good weight balance. Otherwise, Vegas, chevettes, electras, 2 rwd in the ditch, pickups, I've had many RWD cars. The century was very drivable in winter but even still not as tenacious and stable and predictable as a typical fwd car. FWD with snow even is better. Now my TRex has AWD. I would love to get snows for that.

Edited October 17, 2008 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

Subaru WRX Used prev. generation?

I know, crappy gas milage, crappy ride, crappy interior, you don't like Subies...but it may be what you need to get through the weather where you live, and nice used ones are dropping in price.

Seriously, though, I think the Astra may be the best car for you right now.

I think MINI or TDI Jetta, along with a Cobalt, will be the next cars in my garage.

Chris

[regfootball]

well so the astra is 2500 bucks HIGHER this month. i just read on saturnfans.com, GM is raising prices on the 09 Astra about 1500 more across the board.

[A Horse With No Name]

Doesn't really matter so much about price...You've driven everything other than a Maybach and a Veyron Buggati (both of which are more than $1500-2500 out of your price range) and the Astra is the only thing on the market that seems to fit you.

Buy the Astra. If you get laid off you'll get another job, if you move to Georgia and are no longer worried about snow you'll still like the FWD and the handling, and this is clearly the car that fits you.

Just if your ever in Columbus bring it to one of our club Autocrosses and have some fun with us! I know I keep saying this but that thing is sooo sweet in the way it handles, it needs to be pushed...and the local HONDA guys need to see some GM tail light....

Chris

[regfootball]

but they don't sell the OPC here!

[daves87rs]

well so the astra is 2500 bucks HIGHER this month. i just read on saturnfans.com, GM is raising prices on the 09 Astra about 1500 more across the board.

What?

Retarded, but I'm not surprised......

I like the Astra myself, and a 5 door would suit me well. But they better have either added a bunch of stuff, or plan on some rebates, because that is going to put the Astra in the 20 grand range for a decently loaded one.....

I guess an XE would be ok.....

[daves87rs]

Ditto on the GM paint thing. My Safari van looked good until the day that I sold it, and it never spent a night indoors through 11 Ohio winters.

Chris

I've noticed that too...

Though it doesn't seem to be quite as true for my mom's Astro.....

[regfootball]

What?

Retarded, but I'm not surprised......

I like the Astra myself, and a 5 door would suit me well. But they better have either added a bunch of stuff, or plan on some rebates, because that is going to put the Astra in the 20 grand range for a decently loaded one.....

I guess an XE would be ok.....

the one i was looking at stickered for fully loaded XR 5 door 21,5 (manual) and during employee pricing + dealer discount they had the price at 17,8. Now they say the price is 20,250 or something.

now help me out here, but its october and september is usually the big model clearance. there are still many 08's left and if they want to get rid of them and the 09's are coming, logic says that a car that was overpriced to begin with should at least stay at the low price at the end of the model year.

basically no EPP and no extra dealer incentives were applied this month. GM has no desire to sell cars this month i guess.

I've seen in the past where sometimes incentives get added midstream, although we are now past mid month.

The 1,500 dollar boost in the 09 price and lack of incentives this month says to me that the weak dollar and expense to import the car is killing them and they don't want to sell it for what its actually worth on the market. they are going to hold on 2-3 more months and at least still try to sell them for profit.

good luck.

to put it in perspective, the 08 auras and vues start at about the same prices. Saab 9-3's are below 20g right now.

to me the real issue is not paying so much that i am underneath on the car for the whole term of the loan. when i use my own incentives, even if i am lucky to achieve a 14k purchase price....that's all the car is worth once i drive it off the lot. 20 is too much for that car when so many midsizers are hovering that price point and there's MANY used cars you can get at 20k that will knock your socks off.

In my mind if its a 21,500 sticker its at least a grand too high on sticker and really for 138hp should only go out the door for 17,500 to 18,000 fully loaded.

Edited October 18, 2008 by regfootball

[CARBIZ]

Nothing wrong with RWD, but winter tires are an absolute must around here. We had a bad winter last season and I remember one fool in a Saleen Mustang going sideways up a very small incline on a major street in downtown Toronto because there was about 3" of snow on the road! Cops had to pull over and push him up the hill. I was laughing my ass off as I passed him in my crappy 2.0 litre FWD Optra!

My Caprice was RWD and it handled fantastic in the snow - with winter tires! And I lived in northern Ontario in those days where they get REAL snow.

[daves87rs]

the one i was looking at stickered for fully loaded XR 5 door 21,5 (manual) and during employee pricing + dealer discount they had the price at 17,8. Now they say the price is 20,250 or something.

now help me out here, but its october and september is usually the big model clearance. there are still many 08's left and if they want to get rid of them and the 09's are coming, logic says that a car that was overpriced to begin with should at least stay at the low price at the end of the model year.

basically no EPP and no extra dealer incentives were applied this month. GM has no desire to sell cars this month i guess.

I've seen in the past where sometimes incentives get added midstream, although we are now past mid month.

The 1,500 dollar boost in the 09 price and lack of incentives this month says to me that the weak dollar and expense to import the car is killing them and they don't want to sell it for what its actually worth on the market. they are going to hold on 2-3 more months and at least still try to sell them for profit.

good luck.

to put it in perspective, the 08 auras and vues start at about the same prices. Saab 9-3's are below 20g right now.

to me the real issue is not paying so much that i am underneath on the car for the whole term of the loan. when i use my own incentives, even if i am lucky to achieve a 14k purchase price....that's all the car is worth once i drive it off the lot. 20 is too much for that car when so many midsizers are hovering that price point and there's MANY used cars you can get at 20k that will knock your socks off.

In my mind if its a 21,500 sticker its at least a grand too high on sticker and really for 138hp should only go out the door for 17,500 to 18,000 fully loaded.

And with gas prices sliding, I think small cars are going to slow a bit...though not too much.

I think more "base" models of small cars will really sell because that is all people will be able to afford.

I see some rebates coming on the Astra sooner or later....could also explain the price hike (the they cost more to get here)

[regfootball]

Nothing wrong with RWD, but winter tires are an absolute must around here. We had a bad winter last season and I remember one fool in a Saleen Mustang going sideways up a very small incline on a major street in downtown Toronto because there was about 3" of snow on the road! Cops had to pull over and push him up the hill. I was laughing my ass off as I passed him in my crappy 2.0 litre FWD Optra!

My Caprice was RWD and it handled fantastic in the snow - with winter tires! And I lived in northern Ontario in those days where they get REAL snow.

trust me, north dakota gets some serious snow too

well, i just got back from more test drives. malibu, cobalt and subarus. subarus. the forester. my God, the hyperbole has reached a new epic proportion. what a steaming pile and yet it wins suv of the year. puhlease. the impreza, a little better, but i did not feel its that great and it certainly in no way deserves the rating C/G gave it in a comparo earlier this year.

One thing this really is doing for me, makes me greatly appreciate my fords, and appreciate some cars that don't get no love.

it does help clear some things up, there are a few small cars i like, but overall i am still of the opinion that you have to get the RIGHT small car if you do. Now i know why my neighbor, who is a big car guy, why he got that SX4. It's a blast, and its a quality piece. But I gradually am moving to the idea of maybe waiting a while until I find maybe the right deal on a used car I like a lot and is a quality car, the fords, taurus/x/flex/edge, or the Magnum (I might even consider a charger now). I wonder how cheap chargers will get once GM buys Chrysler. Small chance they could snag me with a cheap Jetta.

It might be self fulfilling prophecy a bit, but seriously, any time i have driven a Japanese car, I come away rather underwhelmed. It gets proved out to me time and time again.

All i really think i have left to drive I think, the focus manual, maybe an escape manual. the 09 escape drives so much nicer than that forester. I think I still need to drive a base HHR and maybe even an Aveo, and Vue, and then i think i've slept with the whole sorority. i should be able to figure out which one has the richest daddy after that, i think.

Edited October 18, 2008 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

You will have logged more miles on test drives than you will put on your new car...

J/K!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Chris

[pow]

There's a 9-3 with your name written on it...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks...d=p4506.c0.m245

New condition – 5 miles – not a demo.

Just arrived, 2 in stock (see duplicate listing) we received these cars from Saab as the last of the 2008 models. The “Buy-it-now” price listed provides for special buying instructions so please read this outline.

Vehicle Description:

Saab 9-3 Sports Sedan, Black/Parchment Leather Interior

2.0 Liter Turbo / 4 cylinder – 6 speed manual transmission, leather interior, XM radio (90 day free trial), On-Star (12 months free), ABS, Traction Control, 6 Air Bags including side curtains, alloy wheels, dual climate control, tire pressure monitors, rain sensing wipers, leather steering wheel and more.

The Saab 9-3 2.0 Liter 4 cylinder turbo gets over 29 MPG on the open road and with the manual transmission owners can expect over 32 MPG with Regular Gas!!

Vehicle comes with a 4 year / 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty, plus 5 year / 100,000 mile warranty on all power train items (this warranty will not be available for 2009 models), plus free schedule main. 10,000, 20,000 and 30,000 miles with road side assistance.

Pre-qualified buyers must call:

This is a special purchase offer – interested E-bay members MUST call Robb at Country Saab 845-651-4603 before hitting the “buy-it-now” in order to qualify for this special pricing offer. If you hit the “buy-it-now” without being pre-qualified the car will not be sold.

Price disclosure – please read.

$ 28,825 original MSRP

$ 27,916 dealer net price

< 417> additional dealer discount

< 5,500> Saab customer cash (if qualified) *1

< 2,000> Saab Targeted Lessees Bonus Cash (if qualified) **2

------------

$ 19,999 Final purchase price if qualified.

*1 Saab customer cash – please call prior to “buy-it-now” need to assure that your Zip code / County qualify for the Saab incentive.

**2 Saab Targeted Lessees Bonus Cash – please call prior to “buy-it-now” need to assure your Zip code / County qualify for the Saab incentive. Requires that you provide a copy of your current lease contract as proof of current “in-lease” status with a scheduled end date through February 2, 2009 – customer does not have to end his/her lease contract to qualify for this incentive.

Fees and Taxes – NY State Residents must add applicable sales tax, plus $12.50 NYS Waste Tire Disposal Fee, $45 dealer doc fee and $150 for new NYS plates.

Out of NY State Residents must add $10.00 NYS in transit fee, $45.00 Doc Fee.

Payment - $1,000 deposit required within 24 hours of auction end, full payment due within 5 business days. Shipping and all related costs are the responsibility of the buyer. Buyer must take delivery of the car at the dealership.

Thank you for your interest, please call me with any / all questions anytime during the auction, I will also respond back via email using E-Bay message service.