Tonight's Debate 10/15/2008

[Drew Dowdell]

And.... she has now confessed to making the whole thing up.

[Satty]

Saw that, I wonder if she can do my makeup for halloween.

[Drew Dowdell]

[Drew Dowdell]

I wonder if the computer lets out a little digital snicker when it calculates that 1 McCain landslide scenario.

[mustang84]

Obama picked up Indiana today and is fighting for Montana and North Dakota

http://electoral-vote.com/

Obama's Lead Keeps Growing

With 33 new polls in today, including eight from key Midwestern states, Barack Obama's lead keeps increasing. It is largely due to people's concerns about the economy, but Colin Powell's endorsement Sunday no doubt helped alleviate fears about his ability to handle national security. Our total now shows Obama at 375 electoral votes, the highest total we have seen for any candidate in either 2004 or 2008. Unless John McCain can pull a rabbit out of the hat next week, it looks bad for him. New polls show Obama with a 10-point lead in Indiana and a 4-point lead in Montana, two very red states. If McCain is going have to fight for deep red states, the swing states are going to be very tough for him. The NY Times has a good analysis of where we are now.

[Satty]

According to EV, Obama has a 10+ point lead in states that would give him 260 electoral votes. Unless Obama actually coming out and saying he's a socialist who went to an Al Queda summer camp when he was a kid, then worked as a counselor there a few summers later, this one is over. There are still 10 days left, but its not looking good for McCain.

Assuming Obama does win, who do the Republicans send out in 2012? Palin? Huckabee? Bobby Jindal made an appearance in Iowa recently, maybe he's considering making a run. Unless the Democrats make things substantially worse, the best chance the Republican party has would be to make a turn more towards Libertarianism/Goldwaterism and away from this divisive, moronic Bush stuff.

Another question, assuming Obama wins, in 2012, does he replace Biden as VP? Bush kept Cheney, who was never going to run for pres, so the party had that little clusterf@#k, would Obama do something similar or pick a 2nd term vp who could succeed him?

If McCain wins, how does the Democratic party recover from having a massive lead and a ton of momentum, only to choke at the last minute? And how does the Democratic majority in Congress react to a president whose tax policies they fundamentally oppose? Do they reject it and risk having to tell constituents that they voted down tax cuts?, even if the tax cuts didn't help most of them?

[Satty]

Anyone see Palin's speech today where she basically says funding fruit fly research is a waste. Aren't fruit flys used for genetic research, just like mice and monkeys?

[Robert Hall]

Anyone see Palin's speech today where she basically says funding fruit fly research is a waste. Aren't fruit flys used for genetic research, just like mice and monkeys?

Yes...but as a creationist, she doesn't believe in genetics (or any form of science, I suspect).

[Drew Dowdell]

[Satty]

Loved it!

One of Obama's door-to-door guys came by earlier, when I answered the door he asked if I was supporting Obama for president. I asked him if he walked up the driveway, he said yes. I asked if he noticed the Obama sticker on my car (which is in the middle of the driveway) or the Prius (in the garage, the door was open) which has about every psychotic liberal bumper sticker there is. He said no, he didn't, but he was glad we were supporters. Didn't seem to be the brightest, but at least he didn't paint a black eye and "M" on his cheek and say he was assaulted.

[A Horse With No Name]

Yes...but as a creationist, she doesn't believe in genetics (or any form of science, I suspect).

Don't get me started. I know of three active Ohio Science teachers who think the earth is 6000 years old. My son's eighth grade science teacher said that the theory that seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth and the earth's rotation around the sun was just plain wrong, and she said that if Science could be in error about the cause of seasons it could also be in error about the age of the earth.

When I went to the library today, i parked next to a Minivan that had the bumper sticker "Answers In Genesis-Taking back Dinosaurs"

Answers in genesis publishes books for kids where kids are shown playing with dinosaurs in a parklike setting.

Is it any wonder that as a nation we elect idiots like Bush 41, Bush 43, Reagan, et al? These are the people with McCain signs in their yards.

In Darwin and Reason...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Loved it!

One of Obama's door-to-door guys came by earlier, when I answered the door he asked if I was supporting Obama for president. I asked him if he walked up the driveway, he said yes. I asked if he noticed the Obama sticker on my car (which is in the middle of the driveway) or the Prius (in the garage, the door was open) which has about every psychotic liberal bumper sticker there is. He said no, he didn't, but he was glad we were supporters. Didn't seem to be the brightest, but at least he didn't paint a black eye and "M" on his cheek and say he was assaulted.

Usually when I canvas for Obama I lead with the question "what issue bothers you the most/interests you the most" with this years election. It gets people open and talking.

I would put about every liberal psychotic bumper sticker there is on my car, but my wife might not like it. But she is voting Democratic for the first time this year. She really dislikes McCain!

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Usually when I canvas for Obama I lead with the question "what issue bothers you the most/interests you the most" with this years election. It gets people open and talking.

I would put about every liberal psychotic bumper sticker there is on my car, but my wife might not like it. But she is voting Democratic for the first time this year. She really dislikes McCain!

Chris

I had an Obama bumpersticker on my Jeep, but the same thing happened to it that happened to my Kerry sticker in '00--someone stole it, while parked in a parking garage.

I was going to put up an Obama-Biden sign in the front yard, but I figured it would get vandalised, since AZ is infested with Republicans.

Edited October 26, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Loved it!

[Satty]

:rotflmao:

McCain's campaign is turning into a bigger joke everyday. I missed him on MTP this morning, but I'm sure it was fantastic. I'll try to catch it on MSNBC or get the podcast.

[Robert Hall]

:rotflmao:

McCain's campaign is turning into a bigger joke everyday. I missed him on MTP this morning, but I'm sure it was fantastic. I'll try to catch it on MSNBC or get the podcast.

He's on CNN with Wolf Blitzer now...keeps repeating that line about Ireland's corporate tax rate...

[A Horse With No Name]

He's on CNN with Wolf Blitzer now...keeps repeating that line about Ireland's corporate tax rate...

We are just in so much trouble if we elect that assclown McCain. I used to really like him, but I think he's sold his soul to the neocons in hope of becoming president.

Chris

[mustang84]

Don't get me started. I know of three active Ohio Science teachers who think the earth is 6000 years old. My son's eighth grade science teacher said that the theory that seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth and the earth's rotation around the sun was just plain wrong, and she said that if Science could be in error about the cause of seasons it could also be in error about the age of the earth.

When I went to the library today, i parked next to a Minivan that had the bumper sticker "Answers In Genesis-Taking back Dinosaurs"

Answers in genesis publishes books for kids where kids are shown playing with dinosaurs in a parklike setting.

Is it any wonder that as a nation we elect idiots like Bush 41, Bush 43, Reagan, et al? These are the people with McCain signs in their yards.

In Darwin and Reason...

Chris

Wow...so do they actually teach any evolution, or just briefly mention it and then brush it aside? When I was in school, our 5th, 8th, and 9th general science teachers all focused heavily on evolution and mentioned that some choose to believe in creationism, which is the way it should be IMO. No wonder Japan, China, India, and Europe are surpassing us in education...we have teachers trying to pass off a theory that isn't even rooted in science.

[Satty]

CNN's Electoral Map Calculator is a great way to waste a Sunday afternoon. Just for kicks, I've been trying to find a way for McCain to win. He needs all the states they currently list as tossups (OH, NC, FL, MO, NV, CO) plus another 8 electoral votes. So he'd have to get the rural, Republican areas of either PA or VA to come out in numbers. Its getting a little late for McCain to come up with an actual message to sway voters. This whole Sarah Palin going rogue thing isn't going to help a whole lot. I get the feeling she's thinking more about 2012 or 2016 right now.

[Satty]

Wow...so do they actually teach any evolution, or just briefly mention it and then brush it aside? When I was in school, our 5th, 8th, and 9th general science teachers all focused heavily on evolution and mentioned that some choose to believe in creationism, which is the way it should be IMO. No wonder Japan, China, India, and Europe are surpassing us in education...we have teachers trying to pass off a theory that isn't even rooted in science.

When I was a freshman in high school, my bio teacher just said, "And Chapter (whatever chapter it was) is about evolution. We're not going to study that, but you can read it on your own."

[Drew Dowdell]

Wow...so do they actually teach any evolution, or just briefly mention it and then brush it aside? When I was in school, our 5th, 8th, and 9th general science teachers all focused heavily on evolution and mentioned that some choose to believe in creationism, which is the way it should be IMO. No wonder Japan, China, India, and Europe are surpassing us in education...we have teachers trying to pass off a theory that isn't even rooted in science.

I have no problem with creationism being taught in schools as long as it's in World Religions and not Biology. No matter your feelings on the subject, Creationism isn't Biology. I wouldn't expect to be taught Calculus functions in a 19th Century Literature class, so why should Creationism be taught in Biology?

[Drew Dowdell]

When I was a freshman in high school, my bio teacher just said, "And Chapter (whatever chapter it was) is about evolution. We're not going to study that, but you can read it on your own."

"Kids, in the next chapter we're going to be studying creationism. We'll be throwing away the scientific method for this one, we'll come back to it in the chapter following."

[Satty]

Do any high schools offer world religion classes? I know just about every college does, but I'm not aware of any high schools that do.

[Robert Hall]

Do any high schools offer world religion classes? I know just about every college does, but I'm not aware of any high schools that do.

No idea about how it is today...I don't even remember hearing about creationism in high school in the '80s...I was in a strictly secular world growing up. I took all the fast-track AP classes (chemistry, physics, algebra, etc) and ended up w/ 25 hours of college credit when I graduate.

[Satty]

Another random election tidbit (I'm bored): Obama won Nickelodeon's Kids Pick the President. The winner of KPP has wont eh election 4 of the 5 times its been done. The other time? Nickelodeon had Al Gore winning, since he did win the popular vote, I'm thinking that one should count as well.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Satty

[Drew Dowdell]

A local T.V. anchor tries to ambush Biden.

She basically asks if Obama is a marxist and then quotes Marx himself.

Half way through the interview, Biden goes "Srsly1?!!?"

Then the anchor parries with "But we'd be socialists... like Sweden."

[Satty]

That Wiki article is wrong, it says the U.S. has a functioning democracy.

And that woman is pretty ridiculous, I dont blame Biden for looking pissed towards the end.

[Drew Dowdell]

That Wiki article is wrong, it says the U.S. has a functioning democracy.

Probably just out of date.

[Satty]

One thing I liked about Tim Russert was that he tried to hold politicians accountable for their words. I recall an interview with McCain in which Russert read a quote of McCain's about the U.S. not being in the business of nation building (in regards to Somalia) and asking him how Iraq was different. Good journalists are getting tough to find, we're getting more and more of these uninformed douchebags. Its terrible for democracy.

[Robert Hall]

One thing I liked about Tim Russert was that he tried to hold politicians accountable for their words. I recall an interview with McCain in which Russert read a quote of McCain's about the U.S. not being in the business of nation building (in regards to Somalia) and asking him how Iraq was different. Good journalists are getting tough to find, we're getting more and more of these uninformed douchebags. Its terrible for democracy.

I miss Russert...this election season would be alot more entertaining with him around.

[Croc]

Do any high schools offer world religion classes? I know just about every college does, but I'm not aware of any high schools that do.

My Jesuit HS did. It was the only "religious" class in the religion department, so I got lucky on that.

It was great...8 classes were offered, and you had to complete 5 (1 per year + 1 elective).

9th: World Religions

10th: Making Moral Decisions (basically the whole class was determining if something was a moral, immoral, or amoral decision based on Judeo-Christian morality concepts)

11th: Social Justice

12th: Religious Theology and Philosophy OR Ignation Spirituality OR The Hebrew Bible

Elect.: Relationships (MBTI, Enneagram, other personality type studies) OR Values in the Media (how things are represented on TV)

Pretty secular for a "Catholic" school, huh?

[siegen]

roflcopter1

[Drew Dowdell]

This graph shows the electoral college score over time counting only those states where one candidate has a lead of at least 5%. The states where it is very close don't count here. With one exceptional period, it is possible to draw a pretty clear straight line through the middle of the blue line from mid-April until now. The exceptional period occurred in the last two weeks of September, when McCain got a small bounce from Palin's incendiary convention speech, which really fired up the base. However, when the bounce faded, as all convention bounces do, Obama continued on his upwards trajectory. If you compare 2008 to 2004 (on the Electoral coll. page) you see that this year looks completely different from that one. Other than a two-day blip on June 24-25, 2004, when Kerry briefly touched 300 EVs, neither candidate ever was even close to 270 EVs in the solid states although Kerry was above 270 counting the "barely states" until his Swift Boat was torpedoed.

So what's with the nearly straight line upwards for Obama? Charlie Cook and many other nonpartisan experts have said that with 80% of the population saying the country is on the wrong track, this was going to be an election about Barack Obama. People clearly want change, but they were not yet sure if Obama was up to the job. After 18 months of campaigning and countless primary and general election debates, people are getting to know Obama and are beginning to feel he is a good man in a storm. His calm behavior during the bailout bill period--and McCain's erratic behavior--helped Obama a lot (see graph). Slowly but surely people are coming to believe he can do the job, and that's all he needed.

[A Horse With No Name]

Let's hope McCain continues to implode in his quest for the white house.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

latest breaking news:

Feds Disrupt Plot to Assisinate Obama

I wonder if these yahoos were funded by the RNC or some Southern fundie Christian organisation.

[SoCalCTS]

I think Palin launched her gubernatorial campaign in a convicted felon's living room!!!

Senator Ted Stevens has been convicted of 7 counts of violating ethics laws.

What will McCain and Palin say now? Both have been cozying up with a crooked politician.

Talk about something coming back to bite you in the butt. You betcha!

[ocnblu]

Let's get real here. You guys honestly hadn't thought of the distinct possibility of some kook getting to Senator Obama if he's elected? You really think this will be the only plot against him?

[Drew Dowdell]

Let's get real here. You guys honestly hadn't thought of the distinct possibility of some kook getting to Senator Obama if he's elected? You really think this will be the only plot against him?

If the worst that could happen, does happen, at least I know the country would be in competent hands.

[SoCalCTS]

If no one got to Dubya... no one is going to get to Obama. I have faith in the secret service.

[ocnblu]

Sonny, there's a whole different set of people who would attempt something against Senator Obama, and they're scarier than those who'd try to harm President Bush.

[siegen]

Let's get real here. You guys honestly hadn't thought of the distinct possibility of some kook getting to Senator Obama if he's elected? You really think this will be the only plot against him?

I don't think anyone here didn't think that, this is just the first one to hit the news so far.

Sonny, there's a whole different set of people who would attempt something against Senator Obama, and they're scarier than those who'd try to harm President Bush.

This article is a perfect example of the kinds of morons who are going to talk about how they want to knock off Obama. Do you not think extremist terrorists from other countries, who have undoubtedly made attempts at Bush over the last 7 years, aren't as scary? The main difference I see is that there are going to be more of the supremest type people making attempts from within the country.

Edited October 28, 2008 by siegen

[Satty]

Ok, blu, I just want to ask. Did you just essentially condone an assassination attempt on Obama (as well as the muder of numerous other African-American) by saying, "Well what did you expect?" Because thats almost what it sounds like.

[Robert Hall]

Sonny, there's a whole different set of people who would attempt something against Senator Obama, and they're scarier than those who'd try to harm President Bush.

Yes, many of them probably support Bush...the Republican party has many closeted (and not so closeted) racists and armed psychos.

Edited October 28, 2008 by moltar

[frogger]

Odds of McCain's heart going in next four years > odds of successful white supremacist assasination of Obama IMO.

Maybe muslim extemists would be more organized though. They would rather have republican foreign policies to use as justification for attacks.

[Robert Hall]

Odds of McCain's heart going in next four years > odds of successful white supremacist assasination of Obama IMO.

Maybe muslim extemists would be more organized though. They would rather have republican foreign policies to use as justification for attacks.

The thought of McCain passing on while in the White House is the most horrifying in-office scenario I can think of in the next four years. President Palin? AUUGGGGGGHHHH

Edited October 28, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

>>"I wonder if these yahoos were funded by the RNC or some Southern fundie Christian organisation. "<<

I wonder if the Black Liberation Theologists or the DNC isn't behind it to drum up some last minute 'white guilt' votes in the swing states. Could've really played it big if they had managed to work a threat of lynching in there somewhere, and maybe named the suspects Jethro and Billy-Bob (or maybe just George & Dick)....

[ocnblu]

No Satty, and please don't try to put me there.

[siegen]

Odds of McCain's heart going in next four years > odds of successful white supremacist assasination of Obama IMO.

That's a possibility. And it's not just if McCain had a heart attack, there are quite a number of other possible afflictions common at old age that could at the very least hospitalize McCain and require Palin to take over responsibilities.

And then consider the consequences of either scenario. Does anyone really think Palin could handle the presidency? Does anyone really want her to be president? Can you imagine her giving the State of the Union??

Now can anyone not agree that Biden, while not the most likable guy, would at least be a solid choice for president? He has more experience than McCain, a respectable education, and he's got about 7 years on him too.

[A Horse With No Name]

Yes, many of them probably support Bush...the Republican party has many closeted (and not so closeted) racists and armed psychos.

+1 Bigtime!

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

The thought of McCain passing on while in the White House is the most horrifying in-office scenario I can think of in the next four years. President Palin? AUUGGGGGGHHHH

It really could happen. the rightwing nutjobs are not going to go away if and when Obama gets elected. If Obama is elected and things go poorly for him, Palin could run again in 2012 and get the white house.

I'd FAR rather have Hillary than Sarah, but that just ain't gonna happen.

Chris