GM and Chrysler are in Merger talks!

[longtooth]

What we really need is another car like the 60's Valiant, runs 4-ever, ugly as sin but also good looking in a goofy sort of way, and full of charactor.

Chrysler can and should build such a car.

Chris

If you rummage around, you may find that they already do. Maybe recast the Slant 6 and stick it in Challenger.

[longtooth]

Bless you I do agree that we need to keep GM going and we need to something about our country. I just don't want to see General Chrysler.

Chry-O-Gen would do it for me. Clone some dinosaurs too.

[Drew Dowdell]

The new name is so obvious, I'm surprised none of you have posted it.

General Mopar!

[longtooth]

Presuming that many have forgotten the Pontiac of the same name, I'd 'umbly suggest...(drum-roll)

Phoenix Motors

( a nod to the James Stewart classic from '65 "Flight Of The Phoenix)

[CMG]

GENERAL DOOMED.

[vonVeezelsnider]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/12/gm-cerb...ership-of-gmac/

It's been a crazy few days as news broke that Chrysler and General Motors have been in talks to combine operations. It turns out that there's a pretty significant back-story to these proceedings, and it involves Cerberus Capital Management's possible desire to shed its car-building operations and acquire the rest of GMAC, of which it already holds a controlling stake of 51%, with GM holding holding the other 49%. According to reports, Cerberus would like to combine Chrysler Financial with GMAC, which would allow it to merge the offices of the two financial institutions and reduce costs. All right, that might make some sense, but what about merging the two automakers? That's the part that seems so confusing to analysts and us meager bloggers. Somehow, we feel certain that there's more to this story, which we'll be hearing about for some time.

[haypops]

The new name is so obvious, I'm surprised none of you have posted it.

snip

Speaking of new names .. how about the Chevy hemi!

It has a nice ring to it and all. Of course they shouldn't build a real large v8 engine just use the name on some run of the mill world engine from Hyundai. Pretty silly? I am, but so too are many of you.

The financial crisis is paramount. Moving brands around is like the old worn meme of moving deck chairs on the the titanic. The survivor of this economic turnaround won't be the largest company or the best engineered one. Those companies with the cash will rule.

About 15 months ago I bought a new HHR. It's been a wonderful car. I bought an extended warranty with it. About 6 months ago I started worrying that I might not last as long as the warranty. Now it looks like the company that I bought the warranty from, General Motors, may absolve me of that mistake by expiring first.

[Drew Dowdell]

Wait? Haypops... why wouldn't you last as long as the warranty? Did I miss a thread?

[haypops]

Wait? Haypops... why wouldn't you last as long as the warranty? Did I miss a thread?

No missed threads. I am just looking at family histories, considering my health status and feeling my age. Perhaps too maudlin for such a beautiful day.

[gm4life]

If GM gets the minivan platform out of the deal and kills the rest I could care less.

[longtooth]

Any money that *could* be used for "bailouts" is now flowing into the banking sector.

Besides, the debt of GM compared to the debt of Chrysler in the late 70s isn't comparable in any way.

Financial troubles will destroy domestic automakers, and the "company that is too big to go under" arguments will go the way of the banking institutions that thought the same way.....

Not really, and it will cost one-tenth of an equivalent Federal Jobs program to employ and secure the potential number of workers/families affected and actually recirculate within the Economy many times over CMG.

[CMG]

Not really, and it will cost one-tenth of an equivalent Federal Jobs program to employ and secure the potential number of workers/families affected and actually recirculate within the Economy many times over CMG.

I think the economy is much worse than many figure in the U.S.

EVERYBODY seems to be looking for bailouts, banks, companies, states, you name it.

There is only so many bailouts a government can do...... the economy doesn't seem ripe to be saving everything and everyone....???

Tough choices.

[Camino LS6]

I think the economy is much worse than many figure in the U.S.

EVERYBODY seems to be looking for bailouts, banks, companies, states, you name it.

There is only so many bailouts a government can do...... the economy doesn't seem ripe to be saving everything and everyone....???

Tough choices.

Hard to argue with that.

The chickens have come home to roost?

[Toyota.vs.GM]

How do you like Renault and Nissan?

Edited October 13, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[longtooth]

I think the economy is much worse than many figure in the U.S.

EVERYBODY seems to be looking for bailouts, banks, companies, states, you name it.

There is only so many bailouts a government can do...... the economy doesn't seem ripe to be saving everything and everyone....???

Tough choices.

Your Fed seems so benevolent these days. What's another pound on an elephant?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

No way is GM going to keep Dodge and Pontiac as they compete for the same type of buyer. I doubt either will survive since GM is moving away from brands that are only based in North America as Dodge and Pontiac are.

Didn't the article mention that Dodge is global now? (albeit small)

[Oracle of Delphi]

Didn't the article mention that Dodge is global now? (albeit small)

Hmmm, you know what I think? I think you're going to miss me so much.

[Camino LS6]

How cryptic of you, PCS.

[Drew Dowdell]

How cryptic of you, PCS.

how much of what he has posted has turned out to be true?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Hmmm, you know what I think? I think you're going to miss me so much.

I'm not trying to be 'thick' or anything, but, what the hell is that supposed to mean?

BTW, that was an honest question about Dodge being global. I haven't followed Chrsyler that closely since Daimler bought them (So, for a long time)

[evok]

BTW, that was an honest question about Dodge being global. I haven't followed Chrsyler that closely since Daimler bought them (So, for a long time)

2007 Chrysler LLC European Sales:

Chrysler - 48k

Dodge - 25k

Jeep - 46k

Total: 119k

I do not know if I would call Chrysler or any of their brands global. Well, maybe they are if you factor in the 3,000 vehicles they sold in Australia last year.

Edited October 13, 2008 by evok

[97regalGS]

2007 Chrysler LLC European Sales:

Chrysler - 48k

Dodge - 25k

Jeep - 46k

Total: 119k

I do not know if I would call Chrysler or any of their brands global. Well, maybe they are if you factor in the 3,000 vehicles they sold in Australia last year.

let's just call them 'niche global'

[ZL-1]

Any money that *could* be used for "bailouts" is now flowing into the banking sector.

Besides, the debt of GM compared to the debt of Chrysler in the late 70s isn't comparable in any way.

Financial troubles will destroy domestic automakers, and the "company that is too big to go under" arguments will go the way of the banking institutions that thought the same way.....

But they will still try that same strategy IMO. Why would you merge 2 companies that bleed cash (I am assuming Cerberus hasn't done such a good job of turning Chrysler around) if not for the political leverage in an election year gamble?

[daves87rs]

Cerberus:"How much money will you give us for Chrysler?"

GM:"No, how much money will you give us for Chrysler?"

[CMG]

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20081013?rpc=44

Cerberus wants stake in any merged Chrysler

Cerberus Capital Management, which owns 80 percent of Chrysler, has no plans to divest its stake in Chrysler and aims to own an interest in any combined company that may merge with the U.S. automaker, a source familiar with Cerberus' thinking said on Monday.

Cerberus had held talks about potentially combining Chrysler with General Motors Corp, but never discussed divesting its entire Chrysler stake or swapping Chrysler in exchange for an increased stake in auto-lending business GMAC, the source said.

"Cerberus is not dumping Chrysler or simply swapping it for an increased share in GMAC. That deal was not discussed and they have no interest in it," said the source, who declined to be identified.

"In any business combination with GM or anyone else Cerberus would look to come out on the other side owning a meaningful stake in the combined auto company," the source said.

It's simply amazing what a rumor here or a rumor there starts on the internet.

AMAZING.

[Satty]

Yeah, Reuters, the Detroit Free Press and the Associated Press are known for spreading lies.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yeah,.... the..... press is known for spreading lies.

*Fixed

[CMG]

*Fixed

LOL

Some people just don't "get it" I guess...?

[CMG]

Yeah, Reuters, the Detroit Free Press and the Associated Press are known for spreading lies.

I'll give you a hint.....

The media was reporting all the GMAC for Chrysler rumors.

The media is now spreading word that deal never even made the table.

So. Which one is it?

[gmcbob]

What would you say if there were discussions to spin off GME, GMDAT and GM Holden? Or to close GMNA down altogether?

Closing down GMNA altogether? Hmmm...that would be absolutely insane. Why give up all that revenue? That would be absolutely stupid.

I do think GM will survive here in NA - keep focused and realize that GM brands still do have clout in this market - with the correct product (from what I can see it looks promising) and the right advertising, I think GM can and will maintain it's lead here in NA. Don't give up GM.

Oh, and if you do buy Chrysler, I would take a long, hard look at keeping all three of the brands that are left there. They all still have a viable reason for remaining I think. Maybe. Okay, well, Dodge Trucks and Jeep do.

Edited October 15, 2008 by gmcbob

[traumadog]

I'll give you a hint.....

The media was reporting all the GMAC for Chrysler rumors.

The media is now spreading word that deal never even made the table.

So. Which one is it?

The press probably bit on a rumor, and spread it between all the news parties because of the enormity of it.

And the "talking heads" assumed that the GMAC for Chrysler swap makes sense (it does for Cerberus, anyway).

Therefore, the rest came out as conjecture until the companies squashed that talk (which still may have taken place anyway).

[CMG]

If I had a dollar for every Chrysler rumor on the internet I would buy Chrysler myself, and build cars I want, just for me.

These threads are too funny.

[daves87rs]

Now it is getting interesting....

[daves87rs]

I'll give you a hint.....

The media was reporting all the GMAC for Chrysler rumors.

The media is now spreading word that deal never even made the table.

So. Which one is it?

Who knows?

I'm wondering how they are trying to pitch this to GM....

[CMG]

Now it is getting interesting....

Come back next week when the internet rumor is Ford merging with GM, your mouth will surely water!

:AH-HA_wink:

[CMG]

Who knows?

I'm wondering how they are trying to pitch this to GM....

Cerberus: "We are doing poorly as far as sales and profit goes."

GM: We are too, and we are tremndously in debt."

Cerberus: "want to take control of Chrysler car production, and we will take GMAC in exchange?"

GM: "Sure, we will take Chrysler and GM, combine them, and sink TWO domestic auto manufacturers at once!"

Cerberus AND GM: "DEAL!"

[Camino LS6]

Well, many said that Cerberus would part-out Chrysler when they bought it. That may be coming to pass.

I'd almost rather see GM buy the whole thing than see Chrysler sold-off like a pile of spare parts.

[CMG]

Well, many said that Cerberus would part-out Chrysler when they bought it. That may be coming to pass.

I'd almost rather see GM buy the whole thing than see Chrysler sold-off like a pile of spare parts.

LOL

Yeah, GM has spare cash to blow on non-necessities ....

[Camino LS6]

LOL

Yeah, GM has spare cash to blow on non-necessities ....

But that's just it...

The stories are painting this as a necessity for GM's survival. Unfortunately, it seems that Chrysler will be doomed if it happens.

Why couldn't it be Nissan or some other company I wouldn't miss?

Ah well, tough times indeed.

[Daryl Z71]

Believe it or not, I see this pretty much as Evok does.

This is a survival tactic and likely spells the end for Chrysler.

Sad, but I can see the logic.

I see the end for everyone if the government keeps it up. I say to help keep americans buying american cars why not go the route of the gas guzzler tax and charge foreign car buyers a Foreign car tax. Your free to buy what you want, but I say if you don't want to buy American and support the American Economy you should be punished for it!

[vonVeezelsnider]

I see the end for everyone if the government keeps it up. I say to help keep americans buying american cars why not go the route of the gas guzzler tax and charge foreign car buyers a Foreign car tax. Your free to buy what you want, but I say if you don't want to buy American and support the American Economy you should be punished for it!

It would have to be as follows

Tax on cars made by a foreign company outside of the USA, and keep all American Made and GM/Ford/ChryCo vehicles exempt.

[CARBIZ]

The trouble lies with the world trade regulations. This isn't 1980. I am not sure those type of proposals would be legal.

I know the CAW has been pressing for a return to the Canadian Auto Pact, which expressly dictated that a manufacturer had to build one car here for every car they sold. That legislation single-handedly turned Ontario into the largest manfucturer of automobiles within a couple of decades of introduction. Overall, I'd say the old Auto Pact was a very good deal for Canada and for Detroit: some of the Big 3's best selling and best built vehicles have been built in Canada.

There is a danger of becoming over-protectionist in these tough times, but I have no problems with some form of duty or tax being slapped on Asian car companies, due to the restrictions they put on foreign companies setting up there - even China, which insists on 'partnerships,' which is really just a long term plan to steal our technology. Europe's market is nearly as free as our own, so I don't think protectionist rules need to be set up against them; after all, GM and Ford are very successful there.