Second Presidential Debate

[balthazar]

How does "very articulate, intelligent, a well-educated professional, computer literate and modern" translate into "can e-mail & I like his neckties"? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Oh come on- those are nearly all superfluous reasons, but I don't really expect such things as idealogy, judgement or experience to be weighed seriously in these "modern" ADD times.

As far as his education goes, anyone have any idea what any of his grades were; none of his transcripts have been released by him.

I'll give you that BO's a very polished, almost snake-oil-esque speech receiter, but his stumbling & stammering off teleprompter do not convey any sense of convinction or clear-headed-ness. Can you just see a mid-east madman dictator, tilting his head quizzically, trying to follow his interpreter following BO ?? Also, all of his speeches, while well read, lack real substance.

Ideally, the President should be well educated in all areas that are important to the office. Law, economics, history, political science, foreign policy, war, speech, and others.

Agreed, but BO's only experience off your list is speech & law & Biden is having his own 'moments' (he's only 6 yrs behind McCain, don't forget), calling Bosnians "Bosniacs' and assuring one interviewer that Roosevelt got on TV to talk to the people about the Depression.

[Drew Dowdell]

Agreed, but BO's only experience off your list is speech & law & Biden is having his own 'moments' (he's only 6 yrs behind McCain, don't forget), calling Bosnians "Bosniacs' and assuring one interviewer that Roosevelt got on TV to talk to the people about the Depression.

I assume you'll be publishing a prompt retraction?

In the English-speaking world, Bosniaks are most commonly known as Bosnian Muslims, although Bosniaks make up 48% of the population while only 40% of the population (of B&H) is Muslim.[26]The term "Bosnians", also used interchangeably, can also be used to denote all inhabitants of Bosnia regardless of ethnic origin (i.e. not only Bosniaks, but also Bosnian Serbs, Bosnian Croats or any other group in the country).[27]

And Oh nooo! Biden said TV instead of Radio...... when it was clear Biden was talking about Roosevelt's Fireside chats.... way to miss the point over a minuscule and irrelevant detail

[Satty]

The "Thatone '08" pins were sold out.

[balthazar]

>>"I assume you'll be publishing a prompt retraction?"<<

Perhaps you'll just edit my post for me. Again.

Perhaps I can have an epiphany and 'see the light'; ALL my posts turning to fawning awe and borderline worship of the man Farakahn called "the Messiah", accepting every single stuttered word as nothing but truth, justice and the New Audacity Hope/Dream, where everyone can hold hands, floating an inch or 2 above the ground, singing & singing, wearing t-shirts with a large red & blue Fruit Loop on them.... Gosh, I feel like I'm going to f-faint....

[Drew Dowdell]

Hey man. You broke the rules in a non-political thread AND politically attacked another member who happened to be a mod. What did you expect to happen?

But you're starting to sound like Bush.... completely unable to admit when he is wrong.

[Satty]

This is how I know McCain supporters are nuts. Maybe it is just the few ruining it for the many, but McCain has recently had to defend Obama at his rallys. Telling people that Obama isn't an Arab, isn't a terrorist and is, in fact a "decent family man"

"I want to be president of the United States, and I don't want Obama to be, But I have to tell you, I have to tell you, he is a decent person, and a person that you do not have to be scared as President of the United States."

"I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments. I will respect him and I want everyone to be respectful, and let's make sure we are."

Yep, they're totally not making Republicans looks like the party of ignorant rednecks.[/sarcasm]

Edit: I heard this on Faux News last night but got the direct quotes from a CNN story. I'm questioning the validity of the quotes because the phrase "my friends" doesn't appear.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Satty

[Robert Hall]

This is how I know McCain supporters are nuts. Maybe it is just the few ruining it for the many, but McCain has recently had to defend Obama at his rallys. Telling people that Obama isn't an Arab, isn't a terrorist and is, in fact a "decent family man"

Yep, they're totally not making Republicans looks like the party of ignorant rednecks.[/sarcasm]

I saw that on CNN this morning...at a town hall style meeting, some stupid fat old ho said Obama was a Arab. F*cking redneck retards. This country is full of them.

[longtooth]

I saw that on CNN this morning...at a town hall style meeting, some stupid fat old ho said Obama was a Arab. F*cking redneck retards. This country is full of them.

MSNBC's been running that clip all morning long. The mentality displayed by that woman is representative of the hard-core, foam-at-the-mouth, children-of-the-corn demographic President Bush-base loyalists. About 26% of the GP. But they are our neighbors, bankers, teachers etc...woven too tightly into the fabric of "this great nation" of ours.

What's good about showing that clip is that it also portrayed the forced humbling of one John McCain. To compensate, Palin's amped-up her shrill harpy-speak. Lovely. Palin is that woman from the town-hall meeting in 25 years. America's become synonymous with Robert Smigel's "Dumbf*ckistan".

Edited October 11, 2008 by longtooth

[jessi_chan]

Proof that the smear campaign the Republicans are trying to run is backfiring, since McCain himself has to defend Obama from these idiots, instead of focusing on actual issues.

[A Horse With No Name]

I saw that on CNN this morning...at a town hall style meeting, some stupid fat old ho said Obama was a Arab. F*cking redneck retards. This country is full of them.

Which is why you don't want to move back to Ohio, ultimately. I like it here for some reasons, but if my wife didn't have a good state job and we didn't live in a cheap house in a really decent subdivision...I would move on.

Sadly, I may be the only one on the forum whose vote counts in November, cause it all may come down to Ohio.

After having campainged and gone door to door, all I can say is....if our future is decided by your average "Undecided" Ohio voter, we are all in trouble.

My favourite was the lady who told me we didn't need a president, we just needed to make Jesus King of the USA and we would be fine.

Followed by the sweet older lady who was voting for Obama because she thought he had a nice ass.

Followed by the lady who said that she would rather give wall street a trillion dollars than allow one abortion to happen in this country.

Followed by the guy who said that Obama wanted to destroy the christian religion, and belief in god altogether.

Followed by the guy who said he would vote for OBAMA IF HE WAS WHITE.

Followed by the guy who wanted to start a write in campaign for Hillary.

Ohio is NUTS. Canada is looking better. Ok, wait, CARBIZ has told me what Canada is like. Switzerland is looking better. Sorry for the rant, but we have become anation of the dumbasses for the dumbasses, and bym the dumbasses.

Chris

Edited October 12, 2008 by 66Stang

[Satty]

Dont worry, my gut (and state-by-state polling) tells me Ohio isn't going to be the dealbreaker.

I'll elaborate a bit. Obama has an almost certain lock on every state Kerry carried. New Hampshire is the only one McCain really has a shot at. That gives him 252. Iowa has been polling strong for Obama, and has been traditionally Democratic, so that gives him 259. Ohio (Obama+3), Missouri (tie) or Florida(Obama+4) would put him at or over 270. The combination of Nevada (Obama +4), Colorado (Obama +4) and New Mexico (Obama +6) would also put him over. West Virginia (Obama + and Virginia (Obama +6) are also polling in his favor and could put him over the mark. Thats what makes it so hard for McCain, all the swing states are ones Bush carried and have been hit by the economy.

The poll numbers were taken from today's electoral vote update.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Satty

[Robert Hall]

Dont worry, my gut (and state-by-state polling) tells me Ohio isn't going to be the dealbreaker.

I'll elaborate a bit. Obama has an almost certain lock on every state Kerry carried. New Hampshire is the only one McCain really has a shot at. That gives him 252. Iowa has been polling strong for Obama, and has been traditionally Democratic, so that gives him 259. Ohio (Obama+3), Missouri (tie) or Florida(Obama+4) would put him at or over 270. The combination of Nevada (Obama +4), Colorado (Obama +4) and New Mexico (Obama +6) would also put him over. West Virginia (Obama + and Virginia (Obama +6) are also polling in his favor and could put him over the mark. Thats what makes it so hard for McCain, all the swing states are ones Bush carried and have been hit by the economy.

The poll numbers were taken from today's electoral vote update.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Colorado goes.. I'm voting there by mail, since I still maintain residence there while in AZ.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm voting for Obama then promptly getting on an A330 for Frankfurt. I pushed my vacation back a day just so we could be here to vote.

[Satty]

Could vote absentee. No lines to wait in, no elderly poll workers trying to figure out what your name is.

[Camino LS6]

I really hope that the third debate offers something real.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'm voting for Obama then promptly getting on an A330 for Frankfurt. I pushed my vacation back a day just so we could be here to vote.

I will vote for Obama at the U.S. Consulate General in Frankfurt Germany. Should McCain win, I take comfort in having dual citizenship and I will stay in Germany until McCain and/or Palin are gone from office.

[A Horse With No Name]

I will vote for Obama at the U.S. Consulate General in Frankfurt Germany. Should McCain win, I take comfort in having dual citizenship and I will stay in Germany until McCain and/or Palin are gone from office.

A whole lot of us have the same idea...wish I had the same ability that you and Oldsmoboi have to carry it out.

Things are going to get very ugly in this country, and they are going to stay very ugly for awhile.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

I'm not going anywhere - whoever wins will just have to put up with me.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'm not going anywhere - whoever wins will just have to put up with me.

Hmmm, now there's a threat!

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm not going anywhere - whoever wins will just have to put up with me.

You seem like a pretty tough animal, I reckon you'll survive. The question is how bad will it be for either McCain or Obama over the next four years? With the number of dumbass rednecks in this country who would like to kill Obama because he is black and McCains health, neither of them have that good of a shot in one sense of lasting four more years.

And while I like the down to earth Soccar mom nature of Palin and the Experience of Biden, I'm not sure either one is really equiped to run the nation.

Chris

[balthazar]

Well... let's all hope for a lo-oong 'The One' presidency (perhaps Bloomberg can help draft the end of term limits for BO), whence immediately, the milk & honey will begin flowing thru the streets, jobs will plentiful and enriching, where everyone's retirement accounts will swell alarmingly, where plentiful, renewable energy sources will all be online on every other corner in 3 or 4 weeks (and oil will be forgotten & worthless >shutuplassticsindustry!<), when the entire world's hunger & poverty will be ended via the American taxpayer's bottomless patriotism, and all the rogue madmen dictators of the world will text their permanent disarmaments & peace treaties to BO's cell on Jan 21st. {sighs dreamily}

"Now is the time, this is the moment, we are the ones we've been waiting for." --BO

Let the fainting begin anew Jan 20th as the "citizen of the world" saves us all.

[Robert Hall]

A whole lot of us have the same idea...wish I had the same ability that you and Oldsmoboi have to carry it out.

Things are going to get very ugly in this country, and they are going to stay very ugly for awhile.

Chris

If McCain wins, I'm definitely getting out of AZ....either back to Denver/Boulder or maybe Seattle or Portland...

[A Horse With No Name]

If McCain wins, I'm definitely getting out of AZ....either back to Denver/Boulder or maybe Seattle or Portland...

Smart plan, I think....

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Well... let's all hope for a lo-oong 'The One' presidency (perhaps Bloomberg can help draft the end of term limits for BO), whence immediately, the milk & honey will begin flowing thru the streets, jobs will plentiful and enriching, where everyone's retirement accounts will swell alarmingly, where plentiful, renewable energy sources will all be online on every other corner in 3 or 4 weeks (and oil will be forgotten & worthless >shutuplassticsindustry!<), when the entire world's hunger & poverty will be ended via the American taxpayer's bottomless patriotism, and all the rogue madmen dictators of the world will text their permanent disarmaments & peace treaties to BO's cell on Jan 21st. {sighs dreamily}

"Now is the time, this is the moment, we are the ones we've been waiting for." --BO

Let the fainting begin anew Jan 20th as the "citizen of the world" saves us all.

This is just silly. Whoever gets elected has got 8 years just trying to undo the disaster of the last eight.

Milk and Honey will have to wait 30 years...we've had 30 years shiping jobs overseas, the decline of the middle class,no real energy policy, etc.

Obama is our best chance of succes but we have so much facing us right now no one man or group of men can bail us out. It is going to take a major change in our society for things to get better, and it ain't gonna happen over night.

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

Well... let's all hope for a lo-oong 'The One' presidency (perhaps Bloomberg can help draft the end of term limits for BO), whence immediately, the milk & honey will begin flowing thru the streets, jobs will plentiful and enriching, where everyone's retirement accounts will swell alarmingly, where plentiful, renewable energy sources will all be online on every other corner in 3 or 4 weeks (and oil will be forgotten & worthless >shutuplassticsindustry!<), when the entire world's hunger & poverty will be ended via the American taxpayer's bottomless patriotism, and all the rogue madmen dictators of the world will text their permanent disarmaments & peace treaties to BO's cell on Jan 21st. {sighs dreamily}

"Now is the time, this is the moment, we are the ones we've been waiting for." --BO

Let the fainting begin anew Jan 20th as the "citizen of the world" saves us all.

What's funny is that current predictions are that the economy will stabilize in the latter half of next year so it's highly likely that BO will get the credit for it.

[A Horse With No Name]

Assuming he's elected. Democrats are VERY good at clenching defeat from the jaws of victory...

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

Just a reality check:

[Satty]

Obama's lead nationally is solid, and as I mentioned somewhere, he is in a commanding position in regards to the electoral college. That said, there are 24 days left, anything can happen. McCain would have to figure out what he's campaigning for, so far he's only been campaigning for the presidency, which doesn't really appeal to average people. A clear, concise message, not based on personal attacks might do him some good. Then again, there are only 24 days left.

[A Horse With No Name]

He(McCain) needs to stay on target with some solid domestic policy, something lacking in his presentation so far.

Chris

Edited October 12, 2008 by 66Stang

[A Horse With No Name]

Just a reality check:

Let's just hope that it is this way in November. I have been going door to door for Obama and a strange thing has happened. Several houses in Circleville (white mostly Republican community south of Columbus) where I was told they were definitely voting McCain now have Obama signs in the yard.

Although the Republicans around here still have a strong base. They don't seem to be working as hard/campaigning as hard for McCain as they did for Bush, however.

Chris

[Satty]

McCain hasn't had a consistent economic plan that resonates with voters. They dont trust him on the economy, and he works around the subject anytime it comes up. Poll after poll shows people trust Democrats nore on economic issues right now and McCain isn't doing anything to make them think twice.

[Drew Dowdell]

Let's just hope that it is this way in November. I have been going door to door for Obama and a strange thing has happened. Several houses in Circleville (white mostly Republican community south of Columbus) where I was told they were definitely voting McCain now have Obama signs in the yard.

Although the Republicans around here still have a strong base. They don't seem to be working as hard/campaigning as hard for McCain as they did for Bush, however.

Chris

The Republicans just don't have the money for the ground game (or any game) that Obama does.

RNC just yanked some funding for McCain so they could try and save a few of the congressional seats that are up for election this year. The RNC is basically "calling it" for Obama one month out by doing this.

[Robert Hall]

The Republicans just don't have the money for the ground game (or any game) that Obama does.

RNC just yanked some funding for McCain so they could try and save a few of the congressional seats that are up for election this year. The RNC is basically "calling it" for Obama one month out by doing this.

I'm surprised McCain pulled out of Michigan...just gave up.

[Camino LS6]

You seem like a pretty tough animal, I reckon you'll survive. The question is how bad will it be for either McCain or Obama over the next four years? With the number of dumbass rednecks in this country who would like to kill Obama because he is black and McCains health, neither of them have that good of a shot in one sense of lasting four more years.

And while I like the down to earth Soccar mom nature of Palin and the Experience of Biden, I'm not sure either one is really equiped to run the nation.

Chris

That about sums it up.

We are screwed for a while no matter what.

Whoever doesn't believe that - please give some of what you've been smoking!

[balthazar]

>>"We are screwed for a while no matter what."<<

Agreed 100%, but there are different degrees of getting screwed, no?

[mustang84]

The question is how bad will it be for either McCain or Obama over the next four years? With the number of dumbass rednecks in this country who would like to kill Obama because he is black

I think it's pretty pathetic that 232 years after our country was founded upon the principles of equality for all and 143 years after slavery was abolished, we still have people who are so intolerant and stupid that they are yelling death threats at presidential rallies. The demonizing of Obama as being some radical Arab that has been going on shows how paranoid our country has become since 9/11. His name doesn't end in Smith or Johnson, so he must be a radical Muslim. His skin is black, so he must have some hidden anti-American agenda. The attitudes this election are pretty disgusting.

Edited October 13, 2008 by mustang84

[A Horse With No Name]

I think it's pretty pathetic that 232 years after our country was founded upon the principles of equality for all and 143 years after slavery was abolished, we still have people who are so intolerant and stupid that they are yelling death threats at presidential rallies. The demonizing of Obama as being some radical Arab that has been going on shows how paranoid our country has become since 9/11. His name doesn't end in Smith or Johnson, so he must be a radical Muslim. His skin is black, so he must have some hidden anti-American agenda. The attitudes this election are pretty disgusting.

Come door to door with me Saturday...(assuming I skip the SCCA Autocross at National Trail Raceway).

You will be amazed at the average "undecided" Ohio voter. Never has so much been decided by so few who are so unable to comprehend any form of reality.

Be afraid...be really afraid for our democracy, seriously. We need well educated people voting who want to understand the issues. This thing comes down to a popularity contest or the usual Republican chant of God, Guns and Gays.

The Titanic has no one at the helm, it would seem.

Chris

[balthazar]

>>"The demonizing of Obama as being some radical Arab that has been going on shows how paranoid our country has become since 9/11. His name doesn't end in Smith or Johnson, so he must be a radical Muslim. His skin is black, so he must have some hidden anti-American agenda."<<

Everything I heard from those against Obama's fundamentals never seriously mentions him being a muslim OR black, but there are rampant concerns about his radical ideals. He has, of course, increasingly moved toward the right during the course of the campaign, but that's not a reliable picture, it's playing to the voters. The fear is --with his heavily shrouded past-- that even the earilest view of the man is majorly 'toned down' from reality.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm surprised McCain pulled out of Michigan...just gave up.

Apparently, the Republican governor of Florida is giving up on McCain there.... he has stopped campaigning for McCain for the duration of the election.

[Satty]

I believe what Gov. Christ (why didn't McCain go with him, the base would have loved the name) said was that if he had time, he would campaign for McCain. Then he skipped a McCain rally to go to Disney World.

[Drew Dowdell]

I believe what Gov. Christ (why didn't McCain go with him, the base would have loved the name) said was that if he had time, he would campaign for McCain. Then he skipped a McCain rally to go to Disney World.

Because it's quite well known in the gay community that he's one of us.

[Robert Hall]

This is one the better articles I've seen yet analyzing the economic and government policy angles of the current situation, from Fortune:

Fortune article: How to Rebuild America

Edited October 14, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

>>"The Ayers thing doesn't hold water. "<<

Right-o.

Let's review, kiddies.

Here, again, is a recent pic of Ayers standing on the American Flag (cowardly out-of-sight in a narrow alleyway):

Nice, would be a great mentor to anyone.

He was and still is a subversive anti-American radical, instead of orchestrating bombings, he delights in turning young minds (teachers & students) into indoctrinated mush. Although Barry laughably tried to dismiss him as "just a guy from the neighborhood", Barry launched his political career from Ayers' living room coffee table & has never dis-associated himself from Ayers. Just happenstance, or is there something more?

From his soon-to-released publication (I kid you not) Sing a Battle Song: The Revolutionary Poetry, Statements and Communiqués of the Weather Underground, 1970-1974 : “Once things were connected,” Ayers’s introduction recollects, “we saw a system at work, we were radicalized, we named that system—imperialism—and forged an idea of how to overthrow it. We were influenced by Marx, but we were formed more closely and precisely by Che, Ho, Malcolm X, Amílcar Cabral, Mandela—the Third World revolutionaries—and we called ourselves small ‘c’ communists to indicate our rejection of what had become of Marx in the Soviet Block [sic]. . . . We were anti-authoritarian, anti-orthodoxy, communist street fighters.”

Ayers also believes evil corporations exercise thought control through the public school system.

For another course @ Columbia, titled "Improving Learning Environments," Ayers proposes that teachers "be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, a teacher teaching for social justice and liberation."

Sounds like any political speeches you've heard recently (& incessantly)?

Oh, wait... that's right- Barry was only 8 when the bombs went off- how could there be any concern about this professional & personal relationship with merely a 'guy from the neighborhood' ??

Republican machers Walter and Leonora Annenberg gave the former terrorist $50 million. They also gave money to Rick Santorum, Strom Thurmond and Mitt Romney. Annenberg was Nixon's ambassador to Britain. If Obama is "palling around with terrorists," the Republican Annenbergs are funding them.

Yesterday, the McCain campain put out a press release boasting that Leonore Annenberg had just endorsed him for president. Why is McCain happy to accept the endorsement of a funder of terrorism?

[mustang84]

Man, even North Dakota is starting to turn blue, a state that has been heavily Republican for decades.

http://electoral-vote.com/

[Satty]

I saw that NoDak poll. I'm assuming its an outlier but its not the NoDak has polled for Obama. Earlier this year Montana polled for him, too. Montana did go for Clinton in '92. The electoral map is really, really ugly for McCain, Obama is leading or close in so many states, and Obama has the huge cash advantage, McCain really doesn't haev any options other than to pray.

[mustang84]

Sounds like McCain is going to bring up the Ayers thing at the debate tomorrow.

But McCain said he'll probably bring it up in the Hofstra debate.

"I was astonished to hear him say that he was surprised I 'didn't have the guts' to do that, because the fact is, the question didn't come up in that fashion," McCain said of the last debate. "I think he's probably ensured it will come up this time."

McCain made clear that he still thinks it's an issue. "It's not that I give a damn about some old washed-up terrorist and his terrorist wife, who in 2001 said they wish they'd bombed more. What I care about, and what the American people care about, is whether he's being truthful."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/14/debate.preview/

Yeah, McCain, all about truthfulness....like your nose hasn't stretched numerous times this election.

[Drew Dowdell]

Republican machers Walter and Leonora Annenberg gave the former terrorist $50 million. They also gave money to Rick Santorum, Strom Thurmond and Mitt Romney. Annenberg was Nixon's ambassador to Britain. If Obama is "palling around with terrorists," the Republican Annenbergs are funding them.

Yesterday, the McCain campain put out a press release boasting that Leonore Annenberg had just endorsed him for president. Why is McCain happy to accept the endorsement of a funder of terrorism?

Nothing here either? You have to have something to say about McCain accepting endorsements/money from people who have funded the terrorist Ayers.