Second Presidential Debate

[Enzora]

I don't think this debate reflected well on either candidate, but I also get the feeling that the two candidates could be Jesus and Gandhi and people would be complaining that it was a lose-lose situation. The level of disillusionment with politics in our country is depressing.

[Satty]

I though up a potential scam related to McCain's mortgage buyback plan. Buy a house for, oh lets say $1.5 million. Have it appraised for some ridiculously low amount, say $60,000. You get to live in a $1.5 mil house for like $600/month, then when the credit crunch eases up, sell the house for some ridiculously large mount, lets say $2.5 million. The government can have their $1,440,000 back and I walk away with a million in profits after living however long in a really spendy house for about what a decent 3-bedroom apartment would cost per month.

Edit: I realize there are a ton of flaws, but its fun to scheme.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Satty

[jessi_chan]

McCain made a pretty bad move by referring to Obama as "that one".

I think it is interesting how the polls suggest that Obama actually won the foreign policy part of the debate, which is what McCain is supposed to be good at.

McCain shows a lack or respect in this debate too by making faces and letting his eyes wonder while Obama at least looked at McCain as he spoke and kept a straight face for the most part.

[frogger]

The "that one" gesture was a nice passive aggressive WTF moment.

[Satty]

I dont know how McCain would be as president, but he is horrible as a candidate for the office. He'd be better off if I were running his campaign and I dont particularly like the guy or his ideas.

Given McCain's alleged temper, I'm waiting for him to say Obama can fo f*ck himself or something. Google "McCain temper" and you'll see some stories of him lashing out at other Senators. If you're really lucky, you'll read about him calling his wife a c*nt after she criticized his hair.

[mustang84]

There's a clip on YouTube from the 80s when he made some Veterans Affairs woman cry at a Senate meeting.

Even in the debates, you can see McCain steaming behind his forced smile. The Rolling Stone article talked about him picking fights in high school due to his inferiority complex about his height. And he has a long history of wreckless behavior when he served in the military. I just don't get the vibe that he would be a stable president.

[balthazar]

What McCain did when he was in HS should be a mile below the significance of the Islamic school Barry attended when he was 10, since that's so much more recent, right?

If 50-yr old school fights are to be weighed as an indication of a McCain presidency, you should be having a damned time dismissing all the criminals & socialists when considering BO as Pres.

[Satty]

Its not fights in school, its childish temper tantrums in the United States Senate.

[Robert Hall]

What McCain did when he was in HS should be a mile below the significance of the Islamic school Barry attended when he was 10, since that's so much more recent, right?

If 50-yr old school fights are to be weighed as an indication of a McCain presidency, you should be having a damned time dismissing all the criminals & socialists when considering BO as Pres.

I call BS.

Actually, the school in Indonesia was a public school., That rumour was debunked almost 2 years ago. You Republicans need to get better at checking your facts. Of course, if you stick to Fox News, you won't get the facts.

CNN Article

Edited October 9, 2008 by moltar

[cletus8269]

hehe looks like the finger pointing at the debate has made its way to the forums... hehehe thats about the only thing i saw that either of them were good at.

[Satty]

Pssssht...facts just get in the way. Besides, it easier to say "I wont vote for a guy who is close with a domestic terrorist" than it is to say "I wont vote for the black guy." I'm going to be accused of playing the race card, but what the hell. The madrassa thing has been debunked. The Ayers thing doesn't hold water. Rezko could be in play, but that doesn't get the "ignorant fear gland*" going the way tenuous terrorist ties do.

*Ignorant fear gland: Using the one-two punch of terrorists and taxes to scare people into voting for a phantom agenda, exploited by Republicans for years

[mustang84]

McCain and Palin's attacks against Obama using the terrorism card reek of the same tactics Bush used to get himself re-elected in 2004. I know, because I voted for Bush mostly on the premise of national security. Under Bush, we have seen acts put into law with loose wording that can infringe upon the Constitution. We've had wiretapping, monitoring of e-mails, voicemail, and internet. We have secret prisons across the globe, and we have used tactics of torture, in direct violation of the Geneva Convention. We still have plenty of unanswered questions from 9/11 that sadly will probably never be answered. When I went abroad, the anti-American sentiment was everywhere. The last eight years, we have looked less like the Democracy we fought for and more like the Empire we revolted against.

I'm tired of it, I'm tired of the lies, and I'm tired of the lack of accountability from Bush, Cheney, & Co. McCain is looking more like a Bush understudy, and his sleazy attempts at painting Obama as a terrorist and Muslim radical are beyond low. It reeks of desperation.

America deserves better.

[balthazar]

I call BS. Actually, the school in Indonesia was a public school., That rumour was debunked almost 2 years ago. You Republicans need to get better at checking your facts. Of course, if you stick to Fox News, you won't get the facts.

CNN Article

Who are you calling a Republican ??

In 2008 CNN went to Indonesia to investigate, reporting the status of the school today. This is the typical focus shift tactic the left-wing media uses continually to misdirect.

While the school is public, Barry's stepfather did register him as "Islamic". In The Audacity of Hype :wink: , BO does state "I was first sent to a neighborhood Catholic school, then to a predominately Muslim school." Now, I don't think that means a GD thing, but the facts are the facts. You might do yourself a favor by researching your messiah a bit deeper than the marshmallow fluff CNN spoons you.

[Robert Hall]

Who are you calling a Republican ??

By your posts, I assumed you were one. So you are an independent right-winger?

In 2008 CNN went to Indonesia to investigate, reporting the status of the school today. This is the typical focus shift tactic the left-wing media uses continually to misdirect.

While the school is public, Barry's stepfather did register him as "Islamic". In The Audacity of Hype :wink: , BO does state "I was first sent to a neighborhood Catholic school, then to a predominately Muslim school." Now, I don't think that means a GD thing, but the facts are the facts. You might do yourself a favor by researching your messiah a bit deeper than the marshmallow fluff CNN spoons you.

Whatever.

[siegen]

I watched the debate finally. It was rough trying to avoid any news about it so I could develop my own opinion.

I counted "my friends" 14 times, but I may have missed one or two. Obama used the term "fundamental" a lot, which is tiring, but at least he used it in at least 3 different ways this time. Still not nearly as annoying as the catch phrases of McCain/Palin.

With the exception of McCain getting grumpy a couple times, I'd say it was a pretty equal debate. I saw a little more substance from McCain than I have previously, but there wasn't a whole lot of substance to go around really. What was that little blip McCain said about Obama's nuclear policy that he started to say and then quickly interjected "well you know" and went on with his spiel? That and a couple times right when he finished a statement and turned to go sit down, he would have a very tasteless grin on his face, as if saying "take that!".

McCain's voice irritated me through most of the debate. He sounded almost whiny and came off with a very matter-of-fact tone. The way he drags out all his words perhaps.

[balthazar]

>>"The Ayers thing doesn't hold water. "<<

Right-o.

Let's review, kiddies.

Here, again, is a recent pic of Ayers standing on the American Flag (cowardly out-of-sight in a narrow alleyway):

Nice, would be a great mentor to anyone.

He was and still is a subversive anti-American radical, instead of orchestrating bombings, he delights in turning young minds (teachers & students) into indoctrinated mush. Although Barry laughably tried to dismiss him as "just a guy from the neighborhood", Barry launched his political career from Ayers' living room coffee table & has never dis-associated himself from Ayers. Just happenstance, or is there something more?

From his soon-to-released publication (I kid you not) Sing a Battle Song: The Revolutionary Poetry, Statements and Communiqués of the Weather Underground, 1970-1974 : “Once things were connected,” Ayers’s introduction recollects, “we saw a system at work, we were radicalized, we named that system—imperialism—and forged an idea of how to overthrow it. We were influenced by Marx, but we were formed more closely and precisely by Che, Ho, Malcolm X, Amílcar Cabral, Mandela—the Third World revolutionaries—and we called ourselves small ‘c’ communists to indicate our rejection of what had become of Marx in the Soviet Block [sic]. . . . We were anti-authoritarian, anti-orthodoxy, communist street fighters.”

Ayers also believes evil corporations exercise thought control through the public school system.

For another course @ Columbia, titled "Improving Learning Environments," Ayers proposes that teachers "be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, a teacher teaching for social justice and liberation."

Sounds like any political speeches you've heard recently (& incessantly)?

Oh, wait... that's right- Barry was only 8 when the bombs went off- how could there be any concern about this professional & personal relationship with merely a 'guy from the neighborhood' ??

[balthazar]

>>"By your posts, I assumed you were one. "<<

So far you've guessed I was between 60 & 75 yrs old and a registered Republican. You're 0 for 2; how's that assuming thing working for you otherwise?

Whatever.

Pssssht...facts just get in the way.

Edited October 9, 2008 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

>>"By your posts, I assumed you were one. "<<

So far you've guessed I was between 60 & 75 yrs old and a registered Republican. You're 0 for 2; how's that assuming thing working for you otherwise?

Well, from the tone of your posts, you certainly seem like a grumpy old man....

[balthazar]

That's your pigeonholing / comfort zone opinion, and you're entitled to it. But it's NOT at all accurate.

Edited October 9, 2008 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

Phil Gramm, the guy that helped cause far more damage to America than Ayers could ever dream of, would likely be McCain's Sec. of Treasury.

[siegen]

The "that one" gesture was a nice passive aggressive WTF moment.

Speaking of WTF moments, McCain started off with this gem directed at Obama: "It's good to be with you at a town hall meeting". It doesn't seem too odd, except McCain followed it immediately by the little sarcastic snicker he does all too often. I don't recall Obama taking any shots at McCain in the first debate because McCain tried to cancel it and then changed his mind at the last moment. But because Obama didn't agree to any of the debates McCain proposed (and vice versa), McCain felt like he had to make that little sarcastic comment. It's completely tasteless and unprofessional.

[Drew Dowdell]

Speaking of WTF moments, McCain started off with this gem directed at Obama: "It's good to be with you at a town hall meeting". It doesn't seem too odd, except McCain followed it immediately by the little sarcastic snicker he does all too often. I don't recall Obama taking any shots at McCain in the first debate because McCain tried to cancel it and then changed his mind at the last moment. But because Obama didn't agree to any of the debates McCain proposed (and vice versa), McCain felt like he had to make that little sarcastic comment. It's completely tasteless and unprofessional.

[siegen]

Yeah, the "that one" line I thought was completely unnecessary and immature. Whether it was scripted or just McCain's inability to think on his feet, it's hard to say.

Another one of my favorite parts is when McCain tries to quote Obama's nuclear policy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJlnwVCA2eY (1:18)

[cletus8269]

there are 2 things in this world that burn my fuse quicker than anything else.

1. disrespect for other peoples property i.e. vehicles.

2. anyone disrespecting that flag. there is blood from family and friends that make that RED white and blue. id be hard pressed not to break that old man's hip if i happend upon that.

Edited October 9, 2008 by cletus8269

[balthazar]

>>"2. anyone disrespecting that flag. there is blood from family and friends that make that RED white and blue."<<

I'm with ya there, but it doesn't bother Barry O'bama one bit. Ayers is a scumbag radical dip&#036;h&#33;, but he's a good friend & (informal) advisor to BO ("no; just a guy from the neighborhood"), not to mention campaign contributor, fund raiser, co-board member, campaign organizer, etc. 'Doesn't matter' the dem lemmings will tell you, 'Ayers only contributed $200' they will protest, 'BO was only 8 when the bombs were tossed' they will cry, as if that explains ANYTHING, as if anything anyone ever did in the past means nothing today. Throw open the doors of the prisions; whatever anyone did is all in the past and everyone is reformed and above reproach !! "They're all good eggs in there, they're all my brothers, let them out!" -Obama

I could really admire the BO campaign's ability to misdirect, defuse and obscure (on an international level perhaps) , if what was behind that wasn't nearly so insidious.

[Satty]

Tying Obama to Ayers is the same as tying McCain to Marylin Shannon. The two shared a dais at a 1993 event in Oregon. Marylin Shannon refused to condemn a woman who shot a doctor who was performing legal abortions. In fact, she called the shooter "a fine lady." Isn't shooting or murdering someone in the name of a belief terror? Wouldn't that then make the "fine lady" a terrorist? Since Shannon didn't seem to disagree with her, and McCain appeared with her, McCain supports domestic terror.

[Satty]

Watchdog Group Seeks Ethics Investigation of McCain

It is possible that he may have failed to report winnings from gambling. One of Alaska's senators is on trial right now for allegedly failing to report renovations made to his house.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Satty

[siegen]

>>"2. anyone disrespecting that flag. there is blood from family and friends that make that RED white and blue."<<

I'm with ya there, but it doesn't bother Barry O'bama one bit. Ayers is a scumbag radical dip&#036;h&#33;, but he's a good friend & (informal) advisor to BO ("no; just a guy from the neighborhood"), not to mention campaign contributor, fund raiser, co-board member, campaign organizer, etc. 'Doesn't matter' the dem lemmings will tell you, 'Ayers only contributed $200' they will protest, 'BO was only 8 when the bombs were tossed' they will cry, as if that explains ANYTHING, as if anything anyone ever did in the past means nothing today. Throw open the doors of the prisions; whatever anyone did is all in the past and everyone is reformed and above reproach !! "They're all good eggs in there, they're all my brothers, let them out!" -Obama

I could really admire the BO campaign's ability to misdirect, defuse and obscure (on an international level perhaps) , if what was behind that wasn't nearly so insidious.

Why do you always refer to Obama as Barry instead of Barack? Are you trying to somehow defame his reputation or name by doing so? I don't think it's working.

[ocnblu]

Balls

[frogger]

Watchdog Group Seeks Ethics Investigation of McCain

It is possible that he may have failed to report winnings from gambling. One of Alaska's senators is on trial right now for allegedly failing to report renovations made to his house.

LOL @ ethics & McCain used in same sentence

[DetroitNut90]

I didn't watch the debate, but I saw the "highlights" on the Daily Show rerun earlier this evening. I wonder why McCain was wondering around the background while Obama was talking.

[gm4life]

Obama is not the man he claims to be, personally I could care less about Ayers but what scares me is he feels comfortable around people like him. Another reason I am very scared of him. His socialistic views scare me and I am a middle class person with a 3 bedroom home in town a 60,000. I am still voting republican because I feel that his (McCains) values most closely follow mine less goverment and taxes for all. I also believe in him and his record of reform. I had considered voting for Hillary (always liked her not Bill) but once she was taken out it made my choice easier. ALOT easier because Obama is not one quater of the person Hillary was or an 1/8 of the man McCain is.

Edited October 10, 2008 by gm4life

[siegen]

Obama is not the man he claims to be, personally I could care less about Ayers but what scares me is he feels comfortable around people like him. Another reason I am very scared of him. His socialistic views scare me and I am a middle class person with a 3 bedroom home in town a 60,000. I am still voting republican because I feel that his (McCains) values most closely follow mine less goverment and taxes for all. I also believe in him and his record of reform. I had considered voting for Hillary (always liked her not Bill) but once she was taken out it made my choice easier. ALOT easier because Obama is not one quater of the person Hillary was or an 1/8 of the man McCain is.

McCain is not the man he claims to be. He wants to get into the white house so bad he's obviously willing to do anything to get in. That's one thing that scares me about him. The attitude coming from McCain and Palin isn't helping either.

Obama has a good education including a JD. Biden has a good education including a JD. Obama's wife even has a JD. None of them come from rich families, and have had to work to get where they are. They have a lot in common with me, and I respect them because of it. That's what is influencing my vote. I honestly don't see how anyone can vote for McCain/Palin. A naval academy underachiever and a news reporter.

[balthazar]

Why do you always refer to Obama as Barry instead of Barack? Are you trying to somehow defame his reputation or name by doing so? I don't think it's working.

What reputation would that be ???

Didn't you & I already go over this: he went under that name growing up. Does anyone who supports him know anything about him personally ??

>>"McCain is not the man he claims to be. He wants to get into the white house so bad he's obviously willing to do anything to get in."<<

Do you think BO is just out for an evening stroll here ??????? If anyone is not who he claims to be, it's BO. Tho that's a side-step: he's revealed almost nothing about himself and has denied what has come out. Don't forget- his is an "historic" bid we whites are duty-bound to elect to amend for our races' sins.

Edited October 10, 2008 by balthazar

[siegen]

What reputation would that be ???

Didn't you & I already go over this: he went under that name growing up. Does anyone who supports him know anything about him personally ??

>>"McCain is not the man he claims to be. He wants to get into the white house so bad he's obviously willing to do anything to get in."<<

Do you think BO is just out for an evening stroll here ??????? If anyone is not who he claims to be, it's BO. Tho that's a side-step: he's revealed almost nothing about himself and has denied what has come out. Don't forget- his is an "historic" bid we whites are duty-bound to elect to amend for our races' sins.

Yes I know the origins of "Barry" and when he went by that nickname, hence why I said "Barry instead of Barack". My question is, why do you call him that? It is a bit of a rhetorical question.

[Robert Hall]

McCain is not the man he claims to be. He wants to get into the white house so bad he's obviously willing to do anything to get in. That's one thing that scares me about him. The attitude coming from McCain and Palin isn't helping either.

Obama has a good education including a JD. Biden has a good education including a JD. Obama's wife even has a JD. None of them come from rich families, and have had to work to get where they are. They have a lot in common with me, and I respect them because of it. That's what is influencing my vote. I honestly don't see how anyone can vote for McCain/Palin. A naval academy underachiever and a news reporter.

Yes, Obama has similar appeal for me---he is closer to my age than McCain, very articulate, intelligent, a well-educated professional, computer literate and modern. McCain is of a time long ago past...he's of my mother's generation, an age group where people are enjoying retirement. He seems like a short tempered, mean old man out of touch with the modern world.

As a well-traveled, well-educated upper middle class suburban professional working in an industry known for it's modernity and diversity, I find the Democratic party a better fit for my values and views...the core of the Republican Party of today--the conservatives and religious zealots that McCain/Palin pander to-- have nothing in common with my reality. The 'small town' folksy appeal and phony 'family values' talk that works with the God and guns crowd doesn't speak to me.

Edited October 10, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

Tying Obama to Ayers is the same as tying McCain to Marylin Shannon. The two shared a dais at a 1993 event in Oregon. Marylin Shannon refused to condemn a woman who shot a doctor who was performing legal abortions. In fact, she called the shooter "a fine lady." Isn't shooting or murdering someone in the name of a belief terror? Wouldn't that then make the "fine lady" a terrorist? Since Shannon didn't seem to disagree with her, and McCain appeared with her, McCain supports domestic terror.

Oooo, you got me good with that one! Sharing a stage for 1 day with someone who doesn't condemn a 3rd, non-present party for a shooting IS exactly like spending years as co-board members, taking campagin advice & money, being neighbors in the other's houses, getting indoctrinated with poisionous ideals from the actual person who orchestrated multiple bombing campaigns for years against the police & the Pentagon. What a good, honorable, respected man Ayers is - God; how could I have been so blind??

Good one; I'll shut up now.

[balthazar]

>>"Yes I know the origins of "Barry" and when he went by that nickname, hence why I said "Barry instead of Barack". My question is, why do you call him that? It is a bit of a rhetorical question."<<

Was it a nickname, or what it legal? Wasn't he adopted by his stepfather ?? Of course, it doesn't matter... which makes one wonder why we'll never know.

To answer the question, it speaks well to his shielded personal history, and... it's fun.

>>"Yes, Obama has similar appeal for me---he is closer to my age than McCain, very articulate, intelligent, a well-educated professional, computer literate and modern. McCain is of a time long ago past...he's of my mother's generation, an age group where people are enjoying retirement. He seems like a short tempered, mean old man out of touch with the modern world."<<

Ironically, this criteria for chosing the leader of the free world (he's my age, can e-mail & I like his neckties) immediately reminds me of my 93-yr old grandmother's criteria for chosing Bill Clinton; 'He's so handsome'.

Edited October 10, 2008 by balthazar

[mustang84]

Obama is not the man he claims to be, personally I could care less about Ayers but what scares me is he feels comfortable around people like him. Another reason I am very scared of him. His socialistic views scare me and I am a middle class person with a 3 bedroom home in town a 60,000. I am still voting republican because I feel that his (McCains) values most closely follow mine less goverment and taxes for all. I also believe in him and his record of reform. I had considered voting for Hillary (always liked her not Bill) but once she was taken out it made my choice easier. ALOT easier because Obama is not one quater of the person Hillary was or an 1/8 of the man McCain is.

How can any middle class American relate to a guy that has 7 houses, grew up in a privileged military family, and married the hieress of the Hensley & Co. multi-million dollar beer fortune?

People so easily dismiss Obama, even though he started from far more humble roots and worked his way up through law school and into the US Senate. The phobias against Obama are simply unfounded; people cry "socialism", yet look at the last eight years. Under Bush, we have seen the largest expansion of government since the Great Depression and FDR. We have eroded nearly all credibility we had in world affairs and have been led into an endless war based on lies. McCain wants to keep that endless war going. One minute he's for more deregulation, the next he's buddying up to the $700 billion bailout. The guy has done a complete 180 on his position in THE single most important aspect of this election.

As fiscally conservative as I am, I recognize there are key things wrong with our country that simply need to be fixed before we fall even further behind. Our infrastructure is so bad we have bridges collapsing. Our education is so bad that we are outranked by 25 other nations in science and math. Our dependence upon oil is so bad that prices of food and basic commodities are at the mercy of OPEC. Our debt from this war is so bad that my generation will be reeling from a double blow when the Boomers retire and want their social security. McCain voted against alternative fuels. McCain voted against Amtrak. McCain has voted against a lot of things that other developed countries are pursuing or already have. We are being left behind, quickly.

I want change, and I feel that Obama is the only one who will bring this country back from the brink.

[Drew Dowdell]

Obama is not the man he claims to be, personally I could care less about Ayers but what scares me is he feels comfortable around people like him. Another reason I am very scared of him. His socialistic views scare me and I am a middle class person with a 3 bedroom home in town a 60,000. I am still voting republican because I feel that his (McCains) values most closely follow mine less goverment and taxes for all. I also believe in him and his record of reform. I had considered voting for Hillary (always liked her not Bill) but once she was taken out it made my choice easier. ALOT easier because Obama is not one quater of the person Hillary was or an 1/8 of the man McCain is.

McCain is for smaller government? Did you catch McCain's line in the debate where he proposes the government buy up all the failed mortgages? Did you see him running around suspending his campaign so that he could try (and fail) to pass a $700 billion handout to Wall Street?

If McCain is for smaller government, then I'm a Toyota fan.

Furthermore... you, gm4life, will get a LARGER tax cut under Obama than under McCain.

[Satty]

There you go, inserting your facts into things. When will you learn that nobody is interested in facts or what the candidates actually say. Its what they think they say. Like I heard someone a few weeks ago say Obama said he was going to take $20 out of everyone's paycheck every week just to put money back into the government.

[Satty]

I know a small number of people who would get tax increases under Obama. None of them have complained.

[Robert Hall]

McCain is for smaller government? Did you catch McCain's line in the debate where he proposes the government buy up all the failed mortgages? Did you see him running around suspending his campaign so that he could try (and fail) to pass a $700 billion handout to Wall Street?

If McCain is for smaller government, then I'm a Toyota fan.

Furthermore... you, gm4life, will get a LARGER tax cut under Obama than under McCain.

Placing 'smaller government' and 'Republicans' in the same sentence has become an oxymoron, I'm afraid.

[Drew Dowdell]

How can any middle class American relate to a guy that has 7 houses, grew up in a privileged military family, and married the hieress of the Hensley & Co. multi-million dollar beer fortune?

People so easily dismiss Obama, even though he started from far more humble roots and worked his way up through law school and into the US Senate. The phobias against Obama are simply unfounded; people cry "socialism", yet look at the last eight years. Under Bush, we have seen the largest expansion of government since the Great Depression and FDR. We have eroded nearly all credibility we had in world affairs and have been led into an endless war based on lies. McCain wants to keep that endless war going. One minute he's for more deregulation, the next he's buddying up to the $700 billion bailout. The guy has done a complete 180 on his position in THE single most important aspect of this election.

The Bush Administration entered office as social conservatives and left as conservative socialists.

[siegen]

>>"Yes, Obama has similar appeal for me---he is closer to my age than McCain, very articulate, intelligent, a well-educated professional, computer literate and modern. McCain is of a time long ago past...he's of my mother's generation, an age group where people are enjoying retirement. He seems like a short tempered, mean old man out of touch with the modern world."<<

Ironically, this criteria for chosing the leader of the free world (he's my age, can e-mail & I like his neckties) immediately reminds me of my 93-yr old grandmother's criteria for chosing Bill Clinton; 'He's so handsome'.

How does "very articulate, intelligent, a well-educated professional, computer literate and modern" translate into "can e-mail & I like his neckties"? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Ideally, the President should be well educated in all areas that are important to the office. Law, economics, history, political science, foreign policy, war, speech, and others. McCain and Palin combined have none of these skills, so IMO they bring nothing to the white house other than more politics.

Edited October 10, 2008 by siegen

[2005 EquinoxLS]

McCain is not the man he claims to be. He wants to get into the white house so bad he's obviously willing to do anything to get in. That's one thing that scares me about him. The attitude coming from McCain and Palin isn't helping either.

Obama has a good education including a JD. Biden has a good education including a JD. Obama's wife even has a JD. None of them come from rich families, and have had to work to get where they are. They have a lot in common with me, and I respect them because of it. That's what is influencing my vote. I honestly don't see how anyone can vote for McCain/Palin. A naval academy underachiever and a news reporter.

Obama is it for me too. I have gotten calls for McCain but not Obama. Somebody is getting desperate. McCain is like some have said a person whos time has past 30 years ago. I wish for the Iraqi war to end so we can start spending our money and time and efforts HERE. Yes I said HERE!!!!!!!!!!! Not spending it overseas rebuilding somebody elses country while our people suffer. Obama seems much more willing to work WITH the rest of the world. Not AGAINST the rest of the world like McCain will or Bush has. McCain barely mentions the middle class. Think about that.

[Robert Hall]

This was originally posted in another thread, probably fits better here. An article in the NYT today is one of the best I've seen lately at illustrating the differences between the parties, esp. what I dislike so much about today's Republican party..

NYT article

A few paragraphs from the article that ring true to me:

" Over the past 15 years, the same argument has been heard from a thousand politicians and a hundred television and talk-radio jocks. The nation is divided between the wholesome Joe Sixpacks in the heartland and the oversophisticated, overeducated, oversecularized denizens of the coasts.

What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.

Republicans developed their own leadership style. If Democratic leaders prized deliberation and self-examination, then Republicans would govern from the gut.

George W. Bush restrained some of the populist excesses of his party — the anti-immigration fervor, the isolationism — but stylistically he fit right in. As Fred Barnes wrote in his book, “Rebel-in-Chief,” Bush “reflects the political views and cultural tastes of the vast majority of Americans who don’t live along the East or West Coast. He’s not a sophisticate and doesn’t spend his discretionary time with sophisticates. As First Lady Laura Bush once said, she and the president didn’t come to Washington to make new friends. And they haven’t.”

The political effects of this trend have been obvious. Republicans have alienated the highly educated regions — Silicon Valley, northern Virginia, the suburbs outside of New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and Raleigh-Durham. The West Coast and the Northeast are mostly gone."

I'd add the Boulder-Denver area to this list, from personal experience..

The Republicans have alienated whole professions. Lawyers now donate to the Democratic Party over the Republican Party at 4-to-1 rates. With doctors, it’s 2-to-1. With tech executives, it’s 5-to-1. With investment bankers, it’s 2-to-1. It took talent for Republicans to lose the banking community.

This sums it up the best:

" And so, politically, the G.O.P. is squeezed at both ends. The party is losing the working class by sins of omission — because it has not developed policies to address economic anxiety. It has lost the educated class by sins of commission — by telling members of that class to go away."

Edited October 10, 2008 by moltar

[Satty]

Joe Biden was in Springgy-field this morning, and I went. Didn't get there early enough to have to pass through security and get to stand in the fenced in area, which sucked. But I did get a good spot just outside the (waist-high) fence. Turnout was good, a great mix of young and old, men and women, the event was even about as ethnically diverse (about two dozen African-Americans) as anything in Springfield gets. Good speech, great atmosphere, a good time had by all. There was only one protester and he left on his own accord about the time they quit letting people in.

A side not: I learned that you dont have to be physically fit to be a Secret Service agent. One guy looked like a balder Jason Alexander.

[Enzora]

What reputation would that be ???

Didn't you & I already go over this: he went under that name growing up. Does anyone who supports him know anything about him personally ??

Yeah, and if you're in a fight with someone and they call you "buddy," they sure as hell don't mean it in a friendly way, or even a neutral. It's really transparent of you to pretend that you're not taking a jab at Obama when you call him Barry, given how much you've admitted to disliking him.

[Satty]

I make up nicknames for McCain because they add a little flair to an otherwise grumpy old man who sounds like a drone just trying to keep himself from having a violent outburst.

One other note on Biden. I didn't really take note of this until today, but he uses "literally" the way McCain uses "my friends" and Obama uses "change" and Palin uses "darn".